Adam Rubin & #8207;@AdamRubinESPN 27s28 seconds ago
So far Pedro Martinez is 23-for-23 on ballots. Randy Johnson 22-for-23. John Smoltz 21-for-23.
Adam Rubin & #8207;@AdamRubinESPN 2m2 minutes ago
With about 4% of ballots public, Mike Piazza at 91.3% for Hall. 4 pickups from voters who omitted him last year, 1 drop, via @jonahkeri
Correction: 3 pickups from voters who omitted Piazza a year ago, 1 drop.
Have to believe the Hall of Fame class is at least 4 -- Pedro, Smoltz, Randy Johnson, plus Biggio -- with Mike Piazza coming close as No. 5.
All the guys named in this thread deserve to be in the HOF.
He'd still get left off ballots.
Isn't there a limit to how many guys they can vote for? If Piazza was the last guy on their ballot this year, and some new, more deserving candidates are up for voting this year, then it makes sense Piazza would get bumped.
Quote:
if you don't believe Mike Piazza is a HOFer, how was he a HOF on your ballot last year but not this one? There were no new steroid revelations, he didn't have any off-field issues. His resume is what it is.
Isn't there a limit to how many guys they can vote for? If Piazza was the last guy on their ballot this year, and some new, more deserving candidates are up for voting this year, then it makes sense Piazza would get bumped.
There is but the guy who bumped him only voted for 9 this year aka it wasn't "limits".
it's one of the most mismanaged embarrassing processes I've ever seen built on entitlement and ego (not of the players, but the voters).
And I don't say this as a Mets fan, but just crap in general like Jim Rice.
it's one of the most mismanaged embarrassing processes I've ever seen built on entitlement and ego (not of the players, but the voters).
And I don't say this as a Mets fan, but just crap in general like Jim Rice.
This.
Plus some voters feel compelled to make statements with their ballots, and good lord there are some fuckheads with ballots that wouldn't know a baseball if it passed through their colon.
This is but one example of what is wrong with the Hall. I don't get how most of these guys think. First of all, limits is stupid. I don't care if 5 guys are eligible or 50, you should be allowed to vote for as many guys who are eligible as you see fit. Then the whole first ballot thing is stupid. Either you think the guys is a HOFer or you don't. What the fuck difference does it make which ballot he gets voted in on?! Then there is the whole unanimous hangup. The same logic I mentioned should hold true here.
And until then they should also kick Hank Aaron out of the HOF since he admits to taking greenies for performance enhancing purposes.
I abhor the rampant steroid use of the the decade or so where it became prevalent. However, I also recognize it had been going on for much longer than MLB is willing to publicly recognize. In addition, because the use was so league-wide, I feel like the players from that era can be fairly judged against one another, at the very least. In that capacity, players like Bonds and Clemens, who were both clear cut HOFers before ever taking PEDs, are examples of players who were head and shoulders above the rest of the league and remain obvious HOFers.
Additionally, you have players like Piazza, for whom there is no actual evidence of PED use other than a couple of baseless rumors founded on things bacne that seem to still carry ridiculous weight. Piazza's career from start to finish is one of extraordinary accomplishments resulting in the finest offensive output by anyone at the Catcher position. There is absolutely no reason not to vote for him.
In my opinion, there is another category of gray area players, among them A-Rod. He now seems to have played the majority of his career using PEDs and continued even after his use was discovered and initially admitted. This taints his entirety of career's achievements. Other guys, like McGwire, Sosa, and Palmeiro were having good to very good careers before alleged usage, but not great or HOF worthy careers, in my opinion. Some people judge them in much more favorable light and others more harshly. The bottom line for me is that none of that trio were HOF caliber players until they extended and altered their careers by using.
McGwire, for example, would have either been out of baseball completely or hanging on in a reduced capacity due to injuries with less than 500 and maybe less than 450 HRs. Sosa likewise would likely have finished his career with less than 500 HRs had he not used, as almost 2/3 of his 609 career HRs came in the second half of his career, which all seems to indicate his usage. Assuming he played for all or most of that period cleanly, and looking at the rest of his career, those 381 HRs hit from 1998 to 2007 likely looks more like 190, leaving his career at a shade over 400. Neither player was an exceptional hitter other than their power, so those numbers just wouldn't cut it.
Palmeiro is the most difficult if this group of players to gauge, in my opinion. He was the more well rounded and consistent offensive player. However, alleged use increase slightly on his previous career numbers for an extended period of time late in his career when most players' numbers decline or plateau. If he continued on his career arc he probably would have had slightly diminished numbers and also may have played slightly less. That would clearly have left him with less than the magic number of 3000 hits and left him with close to 500 HRs, instead of 569. Now, he still would likely have had more than 2500 hits, approximately 500 HRs, and a decent career BA (but below .300). He would have been very close and likely would have hinged on whether he actually had slightly more or less than 500 HRs, since he had no rings.
The biggest problem I have with these guys, is it makes it nearly impossible to accurately judge a player like McGriff or Thomas from this era. Both were apparantly clean and eerily consistent throughout their careers. Thomas luckily was voted in. McGriff, however, has no shot now with his slightly less than 2500 hits and 500 HRs. This is the sae area Palmeiro was likely to land in, but he now has the two golden numbers of 3000 and 500. Will he end up in?