in a mega-minute. He's a freak, he's impossible to defend with his size and wingspan and when he shields/bodies up the defender, fugettabout it!
His career numbers are trending well north of Moss's in half the number of seasons and maybe even more importantly I've never heard any criticism of him dogging it or being a king sized douche. CJ's better all around.
Calvin's problems have been drops.
I'd too take Moss. Turning mediocre passers like Culpepper, Cunningham, and George into studs. The Oakland days were hard, because you could tell he felt the team was crumbling around. He was always the only legitimate threat and Kerry Collins was on the downside of his career.
Easy decision - Rice. When people evaluate wideouts, they look at the obvious tools - size and speed. Rice didn't have either but he played smart and always found a way to get separation. Rice was a pro's pro.
Megatron is constantly hurt. Megatron is impossible to defend and is an athletic freak of nature, but I feel like he's always hurt. Moss I can't even remeber being hurt barely ever.
Moss did take plays off so we can all imagine how much better he could have been.
I used to look past Moss's quirks because of his incredible talent. I also found him sort of likable in a way and this gave him the benefit of the doubt.
That all ended at the Super Bowl in New Orleans. From our seats we had a great view of the field...I don't know if I've ever seen a player dog it more than Moss did. He jogged routes, often not even finishing them. Run blocking wasn't even a consideration, nor was fighting through a jam. In the Super Bowl! He was an enormous drag on his team whose mere presence made his teammates' jobs more difficult.
I'm no coach but you didn't have to be to see it because it was so obvious. It was a pathetic and shameful display on the biggest stage.
And I agree with many, it's not close. As great of a rookie season OBJ is having, Moss in '98 was unbelievable. He made Randall Cunningham an All-Pro at 35. The following year Jeff George had the best QB rating of his career. He made Daunte Culpepper not only competent but a Pro Bowler. Culpepper's final year with Moss he threw 39 TDs. He didn't throw that many for the remaining 5 years he was in the NFL.
Not only that, go back and see what Moss did in college. 54 TDs in two seasons. His 200 meter dash was Olympic level. He was a Heisman finalist from the I-AA level. He finished 4th behind Ryan Leaf, Peyton and Charles Woodson.
Yeah he was a knucklehead and he lost valuable time playing for the Raiders, but on pure talent, Moss is one of the best athletes the league has ever seen, no matter the position.
If he showed up for a game, you couldn't stop him.....
His problem was between his ears, and the fact that he was a pussy when it came to being hit.....ring his bell a couple times early in the game, and now he is looking for the hit, before he is looking for the ball....
but he was a frontrunner who would check out of games consistently if he wasn't seeing the ball enough. That lack of character and want-to will always pepper how he's remembered.
and not just for his size/speed. His 4.25 speed and insane vertical were special, but there always seems to be a 6'4" 4.3ish guy coming out every other year. What really separated Moss was his body control, ability to track the ball in the air, and ability to win any jump ball. He was a smart football player in spite of the attitude.
Johnson is a freak and is far more humble, but he doesn't have the quickness Moss did.
and Jessica Biel, you can't go wrong with either. That being said, I'll take Megatron. Not even talking about who I would rather have on my team(in that case it's easily Megatron), but just strictly talent....
Megatron has a much more well rounded game. He can run any route and does run any route. He's a beast in the middle of the field and can run the fly(which is basically the only route Moss ever wanted to run) while triple covered.
everyone knows he can be a head case. Besides his size, speed, and height, he always had amazing hand-eye coordination. To me, he's one of those athletes that you have to assume there's a bit of baggage and determine if he's worth it. He was the common denominator for 2 of the most prolific offenses in league history that had 1 regular season loss between them.
No non-qb impacted the offensive side of the game more than Randy Moss, ever imo. So, that would lead me to Moss. I think you can throw out 40s, Moss on a football field is faster..not the kind of guy to train or prepare himself for a 40 yard dash, rather he could wake up throw sweatpants on and go run a 4.3 on any given day in his prime. Calvin is the closest thing to Moss though, and a dominant HOF caliber player.
The fact that most are now considering Beckham's rookie
Year to be the most significant since Moss, makes it all the more special..because the impact Moss brought as a rookie was stunning. Huge praise for Beckham.
in XLVII and was practically out of football for two years.
Not sure I'd use that game as the measuring stick for his first ballot HOF career.
Because he quit. You think Hines Ward would quit at 35? At 55?
It was a disgrace.
He always had that looked like he quit demeanor, I'm just saying quit or not, he was done at that point in his career - toast, finished, he wasn't even a shadow of his former self. If he did quit sure it sucks, but I don't think that changes my evaluation of him vs. megatron.
plus, unrelated megatron looks to me like he's showing signs of breaking down already. He won't last to surpass Moss statistically either.
Calvin Johnson has speed and agility of Moss with the strength of a David Boston (while not breaking down the way Boston did). He's the most physically gifted receiver I've ever seen.
But this is Calvin's weakest season in a while and Golden Tate is outperforming him on his own team.
Randy's insane deep speed plus length/catch radius made him the GOAT deep threat in NFL history. Watching his rookie highlight reel is incredible because defenses had no idea how to handle him because they had never seen a threat like him on the NFL level. His mere presence in the field was a huge plus throughout his career because he took top off a defense. And he was a redzone monster, he had awesome hands, and he was an underrated run blocker. But he didn't go over the middle often and wasn't as complete as others.
Calvin's definitely more complete than him. Calvin demands attention from the secondary and still puts up monster numbers. He's one of the few obvious 1st ballot WRs and players in the league. Awesome player and he will have better years than this one in the future once the Lions O gets better.
Jerry Rice was easily more complete than either Megatron or Moss, one of the reasons he's the GOAT wr.
Being "complete" is important and that's the thing that really impresses me about Beckham. He's a jack of all trades who's a King in some of them. He has been killing it this year and is having the best rookie WR season since Moss. Hopefully he keeps it up and wins the ROY because the sky is the limit. He probably doesn't deserve to be mentioned in a post about Rice/Moss/Calvin because he hasn't done shit yet compared to them. But what a monster start.
isn't really the truth. He's out producing him and that's only because calvin has missed 4 games(I'm including the one he played in and could barely walk). He's not outplaying him.
And has been when he plays, but Tate has 3 more games, 30 more receptions, and 300 more yards. He def benefits from Calvin but he's having a Bigtime season himself.
He certainly is(I have them both on my fantasy team!),
He was one of a kind but both were mismatch nightmares.
The NFL has never seen an athlete like Johnson. He's 6'5", 240 with a 42" vertical that he knows how to use. IMO, he can do more. I would take Johnson because of his size. Moss was an impossible cover but I think Johnson is even tougher.
He tested off the charts at the combine, probably the best WR prospect to come out in my lifetime, and he's more than lived up to it. Much closer than indicated on this thread. I'd love to see what he could do fully healthy, with an elite qb.
when you're dealing with athletes among the all-time greats at their position in their sports, its not an insult to pick one of them over the other.
and it's not like Moss had elite QB's for much of his career. Sure he had Brady for three years, and an old Favre (ancient Favre for 4 games throwing to ancient Moss) an old Cunningham, but most of his career was Culpepper whose no better than Stafford and a lot of his career he had these QB's:
Alex Smith, Colin Kaepernick, Brad Johnson, Jeff George, Todd Bouman, Gus Frerrotte, Kerry Collins, Andrew Walter, Matt Cassel, Vince Young, Aaron Brooks, Spergon Wynn, Rusty Smith, and Brian Hoyer.
Moss has had throwing to him. Please take a minute to look at the HOF'ers who've been under center during Megatrons career and yes, the jury is still out on Stafford.
His career numbers are trending well north of Moss's in half the number of seasons and maybe even more importantly I've never heard any criticism of him dogging it or being a king sized douche. CJ's better all around.
Calvin's problems have been drops.
I'd too take Moss. Turning mediocre passers like Culpepper, Cunningham, and George into studs. The Oakland days were hard, because you could tell he felt the team was crumbling around. He was always the only legitimate threat and Kerry Collins was on the downside of his career.
Moss or Megatron or Rice?
Easy decision - Rice. When people evaluate wideouts, they look at the obvious tools - size and speed. Rice didn't have either but he played smart and always found a way to get separation. Rice was a pro's pro.
Moss did take plays off so we can all imagine how much better he could have been.
As far as being a locker room cancer, I think that's been overblown. Moss wasn't anything like a T.O.
That all ended at the Super Bowl in New Orleans. From our seats we had a great view of the field...I don't know if I've ever seen a player dog it more than Moss did. He jogged routes, often not even finishing them. Run blocking wasn't even a consideration, nor was fighting through a jam. In the Super Bowl! He was an enormous drag on his team whose mere presence made his teammates' jobs more difficult.
I'm no coach but you didn't have to be to see it because it was so obvious. It was a pathetic and shameful display on the biggest stage.
Not only that, go back and see what Moss did in college. 54 TDs in two seasons. His 200 meter dash was Olympic level. He was a Heisman finalist from the I-AA level. He finished 4th behind Ryan Leaf, Peyton and Charles Woodson.
Yeah he was a knucklehead and he lost valuable time playing for the Raiders, but on pure talent, Moss is one of the best athletes the league has ever seen, no matter the position.
If he showed up for a game, you couldn't stop him.....
His problem was between his ears, and the fact that he was a pussy when it came to being hit.....ring his bell a couple times early in the game, and now he is looking for the hit, before he is looking for the ball....
I'd take him over Moss any day.
I don't get the cliches like Megatron has "more heart". What does that even mean? How do you measure that?
Johnson is a freak and is far more humble, but he doesn't have the quickness Moss did.
Not sure I'd use that game as the measuring stick for his first ballot HOF career.
Not sure I'd use that game as the measuring stick for his first ballot HOF career.
Because he quit. You think Hines Ward would quit at 35? At 55?
It was a disgrace.
Megatron has a much more well rounded game. He can run any route and does run any route. He's a beast in the middle of the field and can run the fly(which is basically the only route Moss ever wanted to run) while triple covered.
Quote:
in XLVII and was practically out of football for two years.
Not sure I'd use that game as the measuring stick for his first ballot HOF career.
Because he quit. You think Hines Ward would quit at 35? At 55?
It was a disgrace.
He always had that looked like he quit demeanor, I'm just saying quit or not, he was done at that point in his career - toast, finished, he wasn't even a shadow of his former self. If he did quit sure it sucks, but I don't think that changes my evaluation of him vs. megatron.
plus, unrelated megatron looks to me like he's showing signs of breaking down already. He won't last to surpass Moss statistically either.
Randy's insane deep speed plus length/catch radius made him the GOAT deep threat in NFL history. Watching his rookie highlight reel is incredible because defenses had no idea how to handle him because they had never seen a threat like him on the NFL level. His mere presence in the field was a huge plus throughout his career because he took top off a defense. And he was a redzone monster, he had awesome hands, and he was an underrated run blocker. But he didn't go over the middle often and wasn't as complete as others.
Calvin's definitely more complete than him. Calvin demands attention from the secondary and still puts up monster numbers. He's one of the few obvious 1st ballot WRs and players in the league. Awesome player and he will have better years than this one in the future once the Lions O gets better.
Jerry Rice was easily more complete than either Megatron or Moss, one of the reasons he's the GOAT wr.
Being "complete" is important and that's the thing that really impresses me about Beckham. He's a jack of all trades who's a King in some of them. He has been killing it this year and is having the best rookie WR season since Moss. Hopefully he keeps it up and wins the ROY because the sky is the limit. He probably doesn't deserve to be mentioned in a post about Rice/Moss/Calvin because he hasn't done shit yet compared to them. But what a monster start.
The NFL has never seen an athlete like Johnson. He's 6'5", 240 with a 42" vertical that he knows how to use. IMO, he can do more. I would take Johnson because of his size. Moss was an impossible cover but I think Johnson is even tougher.
when you're dealing with athletes among the all-time greats at their position in their sports, its not an insult to pick one of them over the other.
and it's not like Moss had elite QB's for much of his career. Sure he had Brady for three years, and an old Favre (ancient Favre for 4 games throwing to ancient Moss) an old Cunningham, but most of his career was Culpepper whose no better than Stafford and a lot of his career he had these QB's:
Alex Smith, Colin Kaepernick, Brad Johnson, Jeff George, Todd Bouman, Gus Frerrotte, Kerry Collins, Andrew Walter, Matt Cassel, Vince Young, Aaron Brooks, Spergon Wynn, Rusty Smith, and Brian Hoyer.