for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Redskins TV Shows Today - Why we shouldn't overrate win...

Eric from BBI : Admin : 12/20/2014 10:39 am
I watched a couple of Redskins shows today that broke down the Redskins loss to the Giants.

The Cliff Notes version? The Redskins are more of a mess than we realize...and keep in mind we were losing to this team at halftime 10-7 (and that really should have been 17-7).

* The Redskins media has REALLY turned on Griffin and for good reason. Washington Post reporter said he's "delusional" about his performance. "How can he look at the film and not realize he's the issue?"

* They showed plays where Fewell was having the secondary play back and soft. Griffin's downfield targets are all covered, but there are two guys running wide open over the middle (this a different play than the one I highlighted in my game review). RGIII doesn't go through his progression and dump the ball off, but holds it and gets sacked. So in other words, our defense really wasn't as good as it looked at times, Griffin simply didn't see the wide open guys.

* DeSean Jackson is so frustrated with the QB that he dogged it when coming back to the huddle. They said Griffin also took his sweet time going back to the huddle after being knocked to the ground. Analysts said the team is feeding off this lethargy. One anonymous Redskin told the Post, "Why bother? We're not going to make plays anyway."

One side note...

Jay Gruden broke down the 61 yarder to Andre Roberts. In his explanation, it becomes more clear why Rolle took tha angle he did...he was undercutting the anticipated route and the WR read what he was doing and altered his route accordingly. (BTW, Gruden really commended DRC's speed on this play to catch Roberts).

Eric  
JoefromPa : 12/20/2014 10:56 am : link
Fewell s approach to defense has irritated me his entire tenure with the Giants and I have welcomed the late comers to the perry must go party. Other than the fact that young guys have improved the pass rush there is no delusion here that defense is better.

My concern is that the Giants themselves don t recognize the elephant in the room when speaking of improved play. That of course would be that said improved play coincided against the dredges of the NFL.
I don't think a lot of us overrated the win...  
okiegiant : 12/20/2014 10:57 am : link
Washington is a colossal mess of epic proportions right now.

Who's overrating the win?  
Britt in VA : 12/20/2014 11:05 am : link
Everybody knows the Redskins suck.
I'd have to say the win was underrated  
pganut : 12/20/2014 11:09 am : link
Because our only offense came from a guy who Breeland and the other DBs said "wasn't too hard to cover", so it must have been a herculean effort that compelled OBJ to nab 12 catches and 3 TDs.
Ramblings about the state of the Giants  
DavidinBMNY : 12/20/2014 11:11 am : link
When I watched the game, it just brought to the surface how much I hate, hate, hate Fewell's defensive philosophy. It's to ornate and to predicated on interceptions. The reason I loved Spags was he attacked. And Giants fan love the sack and aggressive defense. I can't see how Fewell returns next year. He's not the worst coordinator we have ever had, but the spell of giving up all of those yards and easy scores is just to much and a repeat. I'm not asking to bring back Spags, but just bring in someone aggressive. Playing Defense is fun,and you should have a DC who gets his guys playing lose, fast aggressive, fundamentally sound Defense.


And the other thing I though was finally there are some + players on the roster. Kennard, Beckham, Hankins, DRC. I also think some of the other young players are starting to show something. Moore at least flashes. Williams seems 1 good OL and a little more experience away from being really good. I like what I see so far out of Bromley when he is on the field. And Manning is Manning. Beatty has had a good, rebound year. Best OL on the team and would start over a lot of other tackles in the league. Last year, I felt they had Prince, Joseph, Cruz, Manning and Will Will.

And this doesn't include guys like Prince And Ayers on IR. Of course Cruz's injury was so severe, hard to count on him.

The team finally had a good draft, and it helps the draft last year was so strong.

if they can pull off another draft like that - which I believe will be much harder this draft based on last year's draft was really strong... And make smart FA decisions (please get younger not older to keep guys ON the field) they could be a lot better next year. And from what I see in the draft there are good RB and WR (not the same caliber but a lot of #2;s).

I think it makes sense for the Giants to "trade" a WR in a sense. Basically it is so unlikely they will re-sign Randle (yeah he has a year left but if he keeps getting benched he may get cut) So basically go pluck someone else's #2 WR in place of resigning Randle. Other WR would be salivating to play here knowing single coverage was coming their way when Beckham is on the field.
It looks like John Mara  
bluesince56 : 12/20/2014 11:12 am : link
Is overrating this win. The TC must go has now changed into he will must likely stay.
What Eric may be referring to is the way some on the board have let a  
vibe4giants : 12/20/2014 11:12 am : link
a couple of wins against the dregs magically erase the seven straight losses.
Thus, convincing themselves 'We're a lot closer to contention than you nancies understand!!! The injuries!!! One or two players!!! Championship!!!'

Sort of the way the Giants climbing back to 7-9 last year made them optimistic about this year. All Ws are created equal when you're desperate to believe.

But most of us see both wins against as the very simple, plain statements they are: the Giants are really bad, but not as bad as the Redskins.




Beating the Titans and Redskins  
Buck Dharma : 12/20/2014 11:15 am : link
hasn't changed my opinion of this NYG team. The second half collapse in the Jaguar game is much more indicative of what this team is.
Everyone is entitled to their own takeaway after a game  
Headhunter : 12/20/2014 11:28 am : link
what I think and feel and $2.50 will get me on the subway, same as what your takeaway
I really don't see anyone thinking we magically turned the team around  
montanagiant : 12/20/2014 11:30 am : link
Due to two wins over sub-par teams.

Most of the upside I saw from that game was the way our Offense was going, not that our Defense stopped a horrible O
Cowboys lost to the Skins.  
bceagle05 : 12/20/2014 11:33 am : link
I guess they should fold up their tents and go home.
RE: It looks like John Mara  
BMac : 12/20/2014 11:41 am : link
In comment 12044165 bluesince56 said:
Quote:
Is overrating this win. The TC must go has now changed into he will must likely stay.


The Redskins game had zero to do with TC staying or going. Frankly, I'd be shocked if his staying at least one more year (more likely two) isn't and hasn't been the plan all along. Those who want TC gone are fairly dim, and don't understand that he's as good or better than anyone else who'll come here.
building a defense  
BigBlueCane : 12/20/2014 11:46 am : link
from the secondary back as Reese tried to do this year, failed.
RE: It looks like John Mara  
Blue Baller : 12/20/2014 11:52 am : link
In comment 12044165 bluesince56 said:
Quote:
Is overrating this win. The TC must go has now changed into he will must likely stay.


Mara has made no public statements other than everyone will be evaluated after the season
Let's be honest  
oipolloi : 12/20/2014 11:55 am : link
Redskins basically dominated the first half every place except the scoreboard.

Giants gameplan just was not very good and the players were not executing. But then in the second half the Giants took over. Was that the coaches making adjustments? Or was it superior talent ultimately asserting itself over a lesser opponent?

Probably a little of both. Once they stopped trying to forcefeed the run, Eli and OBJ just took over and dominated. And to his credit, Perry did a good job of dialing up the pressure in the second half. Once he realized the Redskins OL was in disarray, he kept his foot on their throats

So, this is a game where you can find both reasons for optimism or pessimism.
i just hope our "o" line can keep eli alive against the rams "d" line  
plato : 12/20/2014 12:25 pm : link
tomorrow. Plenty of time for reflection and fault finding after December. Merry Christmas all
It was necessary to watch a tv show to know  
Mad Mike : 12/20/2014 12:29 pm : link
that the win last weekend shouldn't be taken as particularly meaningful?
RE: Eric  
Milton : 12/20/2014 12:38 pm : link
In comment 12044149 JoefromPa said:
Quote:
Fewell s approach to defense has irritated me his entire tenure with the Giants and I have welcomed the late comers to the perry must go party. Other than the fact that young guys have improved the pass rush there is no delusion here that defense is better.

My concern is that the Giants themselves don t recognize the elephant in the room when speaking of improved play. That of course would be that said improved play coincided against the dredges of the NFL.
I too have not been a Fewell fan for years, but in fairness to him, the Giants three of the team's top four CB's were all lost to injury and the safeties and linebackers (outside of Beason) were a weakness on the team going into the season.

There is no scheme or playcalling that can overcome a back seven as pitiful as the one the Giants are fielding right now. It's kind of like what happened to Gilbride last year on offense. There are only so many adjustments a coordinator can make when you just plain don't have the talent to make it work.
I just got done reading  
pjcas18 : 12/20/2014 12:39 pm : link
the thread about how that win was the greatest in all of sports, so thanks for posting this PSA.

LOL, seriously Eric, did anyone overrate the win? I think people were thrilled with Beckham's performance and another good outing from the DL in general, but I didn't read a ton of accolades or hyperbole about it.
I don't know guys  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 12/20/2014 12:46 pm : link
I've seen quite a few posts this week along the lines "we're not that far away."
This is why RG3 may be the biggest bust:  
mrvax : 12/20/2014 12:47 pm : link
Quote:
* They showed plays where Fewell was having the secondary play back and soft. Griffin's downfield targets are all covered, but there are two guys running wide open over the middle (this a different play than the one I highlighted in my game review). RGIII doesn't go through his progression and dump the ball off, but holds it and gets sacked. So in other words, our defense really wasn't as good as it looked at times, Griffin simply didn't see the wide open guys.


This has been reported again and again and backed up with pictures showing his lack of awareness. I had thought Bob could be a good QB after he lost his speed but now I don't think so. If he doesn't pan out, which looks like the case, the Redskins may have made the biggest draft blunder in many years.
well that's different  
pjcas18 : 12/20/2014 12:49 pm : link
Eric than overrating the win.

In the NFL in general, if you have a QB, you really aren't that far away.

couple years of good drafts and off-seasons and a little injury luck for a change and you can go from 5 - 11 to contender.

many of them are average players (or worse) but the Giants have 22 players on IR.

I'm one of those people who believe it's not "one thing" that lead to this, it's a combination, and I do believe it can turn around quickly.

So, I wouldn't say today the Giants aren't that far away - those aren't words I'd use, but realistically I can even see them contend as soon as next year for a playoff spot with the right moves made this off-season and some injury luck for a change.
Agreed.  
AcidTest : 12/20/2014 12:54 pm : link
Quote:
* They showed plays where Fewell was having the secondary play back and soft. Griffin's downfield targets are all covered, but there are two guys running wide open over the middle (this a different play than the one I highlighted in my game review). RGIII doesn't go through his progression and dump the ball off, but holds it and gets sacked. So in other words, our defense really wasn't as good as it looked at times, Griffin simply didn't see the wide open guys.


Griffin's inability to read defenses has to be more troubling to the Redskins than his injury history. His injuries would certainly limit his electric scrambling ability, but as we saw on Sunday, even some of that still remains. The bigger concern is that he is not seeing targets, and therefore holding the ball much too long. This means he cannot read defenses, and has not developed as a pocket passer. And if that hasn't happened after three years in the NFL, you have to wonder if it ever will. This is understandably Gruden's concern. But the end result is that his inability to throw from the pocket can make bad defenses like ours seem better than they are. The good news for us going forward, is that assuming we can resign Thurmond, we will have a very strong CB group next year. Remember we have 4 CBs on IR.
Acid  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 12/20/2014 1:00 pm : link
in watching these shows, I was amazed at how quickly the sportswriters (at least the ones on the shows) have turned on Griffin.

The Post guy just slammed him over and over again.
You don't have to overrate a win  
djm : 12/20/2014 1:02 pm : link
While appreciating that the giants are at least a little better than the dregs of the nfl. I don't think they win this game last year which doesn't say much but it's a start.

The giants are slowly getting better but the defense needs a lot of work. The offense is noticeably better than last season. It's a start.
RE: Acid  
AcidTest : 12/20/2014 1:07 pm : link
In comment 12044279 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
in watching these shows, I was amazed at how quickly the sportswriters (at least the ones on the shows) have turned on Griffin.

The Post guy just slammed him over and over again.


I've seen those videos, although I do think there was one columnist (Boswell?) who said the criticism of RGIII had "gone too far." The problem is that I don't think McCoy or Cousins are the answer. Maybe Cousins. This year was his first with real playing time, and we all know how much QBs struggle in their initial outings in real games. He is also like Eli playing behind a wretched OL. But right now I think Nassib is better than any QB on the Redskins roster.
You've become a brutal poster,  
kmed : 12/20/2014 1:08 pm : link
can we get you banned?
RE: I don't know guys  
djm : 12/20/2014 1:09 pm : link
In comment 12044265 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I've seen quite a few posts this week along the lines "we're not that far away."


We're not that far away. We were far away in 1996? 1999? 2004? 2006? 2009? 2011? Were the eagles far away in 2012? What about the skins in 2011? Or Dallas in 2013?

Just like the giants weren't as good or well off we all wanted to believe in 2005 and 2008 and 2012 this team isn't as bad now. They came into this year with a lot of questions, some were answered some weren't. They will have a chance to rectify some of the issues in the off season. Hopefully the giants have less questions heading into 2015 and most of them are answered in positive fashion. One more OL, some better health overall and a player or two on defense.... You never know. Things can and will change in a hurry in the nfl. Don't act like this franchise can't turn things around. They've done it before they will do it again only question is when.
Let's see the Chiefs were 2-14,  
section125 : 12/20/2014 1:15 pm : link
got Andy Reid and went 13-3 the next year? Of course they changed a few players, too. But the point is, this is the NFL and very few bad teams are more than a few players from contention, especially with a good HC and a franchise QB.

Yes this is a bad team with 22 players on IR of which 1/2 are pretty important.
No offense E  
Joey in VA : 12/20/2014 1:42 pm : link
But who is stupid enough to think we're good because a lucky bobble and ridiculous penalty turned the game around against a god awful team with a broken QB?

We were down 13-10 late in the 3rd, again, to a crap team that is infighting and miscoached and mismanaged. We beat two truly horrible teams with horrible QB play and lost to the fucking Jaguars, who on earth thinks that means our defense is all of the sudden good? We suck, suck something awful, just not as much as the truly awful because we have a few decent players still giving it their all.
Mccoy  
spike : 12/20/2014 1:47 pm : link
should be the man in Washington. He gives them the best chance to win
RE: I don't know guys  
JOrthman : 12/20/2014 1:48 pm : link
In comment 12044265 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I've seen quite a few posts this week along the lines "we're not that far away."


I've been saying that long before the Skins win. It had nothing to do with that.
RE: You've become a brutal poster,  
BigBlueShock : 12/20/2014 1:56 pm : link
In comment 12044292 kmed said:
Quote:
can we get you banned?

This.
The chaos of the end of the half  
Ben in Tampa : 12/20/2014 2:01 pm : link
Covered up what was easily the worst play in the NFL this year. How Griffin loses possession of a ball while crossing the goal line is actually remarkable.

He is the perfect storm of a body betraying an athlete and a pampered prima donna coddled by ownership.
Yeah  
nygiants1114 : 12/20/2014 2:10 pm : link
Redskins are awful, and two wins should not be enough to bring back TC and Fewell...
How many draft picks did the Redskins use on  
Exit 172 : 12/20/2014 4:09 pm : link
Jason Campbell, Bob, and Kirk Cousins?

HAHAHAHAHAHA...
Wow Skins lead in the third  
JOrthman : 12/20/2014 6:25 pm : link
So, we suck and beat the Skins, ergo Eagles really suck?
Fewell Sucks  
Johnny5 : 12/20/2014 6:33 pm : link
Quinn sucks

And we need more actual good players. Get rid of those 2 idiots, add a couple of superstars and we should be all set.
I still don't understand the downfall of RG3  
mofti : 12/20/2014 6:55 pm : link
The guy looked so promising his rookie year. I wonder if he would be this bad if he went to another team.

Also going back to our defense, how come this team was able to play so well last year for the most part. Didn't we go 3 games without allowing a TD at one point? How many times did the defense keep us in the game before the offense blew it?

I still think this defesne really misses Will Hill, and the run support of Tuck.

you replace tuck with kiwi (who did nothing for us the past 2 years) and will hill with demps and can't cover brown.

Very simple actually.  
kmed : 12/20/2014 6:57 pm : link
They don't run the read option anymore. He's never had success in the NFL without running that offense all of the time.
RE: Eric  
dguy901 : 12/20/2014 7:39 pm : link
In comment 12044149 JoefromPa said:
Quote:
Fewell s approach to defense has irritated me his entire tenure with the Giants and I have welcomed the late comers to the perry must go party. Other than the fact that young guys have improved the pass rush there is no delusion here that defense is better.

My concern is that the Giants themselves don t recognize the elephant in the room when speaking of improved play. That of course would be that said improved play coincided against the dredges of the NFL.

Tell that to the Eagles!!!!!
RE: RE: Eric  
micky : 12/20/2014 9:03 pm : link
In comment 12044786 dguy901 said:
Quote:
In comment 12044149 JoefromPa said:


Quote:





Tell that to the Eagles!!!!!



Any given Sund..ummm...err..Saturday
I agree that the win vs the Skins is nothing to write home about..  
EricJ (formerly Tyleraimee) : 12/20/2014 9:05 pm : link
and really the only bright spot continues to be OBJ

Fewell - the guy is clueless. Our defense has looked confused for the past couple of years. Blown assignments are the norm.

The comment about losing all of our CB's.. is that why teams can run the ball down our throats? So, because we were down a few corners, our D-line could not get to Romo in 8 seconds? Seems like the backup CBs are playing well enough.

The comment about Mara getting behind TC now that we beat Washington - He was ALWAYS going to keep TC. He just needed an excuse (or an opportune moment) to come out with it.

When you evaluate this team and the coaches, you really need to step back from the last game and even back away from this season and look at the last few years. You see a couple of flashes surrounded by a lot of bad football. It is like sitting in front of a slot machine. Coming up empty 9 out of 10 pulls but it is that one payout that makes you think you have a chance.
We're somewhere in between helpless and a playoff team.  
Ira : 12/20/2014 9:46 pm : link
Every team has injuries, but we have more than most. As far as the win last week, the Skins showed today that they can play. I'm actually looking forward to next season.
Back to the Corner