Because I thought it was illegal to go over the center on FGs. Obviously I'm either confusing it with another rule or completely making things up in my head.
leap without piggybacking on a lineman it's fine; if you manage to hurdle the line without contact and time it so that it's not encroachment it's all kosher. heckuva play.
Leverage, and that is when you actually step on the pile to get a boost with your leap. Since he wasn't offsides, and DeOssie kept his head down after the snap, he was able to clear jump over him and block it.
To be honest, Fassel's son is turning into one of the better special teams coaches in the league. Maybe it's because he learned what not to do watching MacDuff when his dad was coach. While a great play by the Rams player, that was a coaching thing, where they saw on tape that DeOssie stays low and if you can time it right, you can jump over the center and get a clear shot at the kicker, damn near Tecmo Bowl style.
to that point, you are right, the DTs both pushed him down. This is something that the Rams saw on tape and took advantage of to free up that rush right up the middle.
I think the rule is designed to keep people off of the long snapper Â
...if the ball bounces differently, the Rams are back in the game. They had two guys running past Brown when the ball was blocked, ready to scoop and score.
Heck of a play, and great design. Also, I don't think the DT over DeOssie did anything dirty. Zak was practically on the turf before he was touched. John Fassel probably spotted DeOssie's very deep pre-snap shoulder drop on tape and identified it as an opportunity to vault him. Looked like the DT just put a hand on DeOssie to keep him from popping up quickly.
the DT on the other side of DeOssie absolutely pulls the "guard" next to DeOssie forward though.
But I think people are confusing two penalties:
1. Leverage - you can't use your own teammate to push off of and leap higher. Clearly not the case here.
2. Covering the snapper - you can't line up over the LS on FGs. Since the LB is off the LOS I'm not sure if this applies or not.
so that people couldn't line up directly over the long snapper. It was a safety/concussion issue since a long snapper cannot defend himself with both hands on the ball to snap it back to the holder. The result was that he took a lot of shots to the head. So you had to line up on either side of him. Nothing says you can't take advantage of him naturally staying low and trying to make a rush right up the gut like that, even if the other guys are pushing him down a bit.
Years ago, they used to line up someone right over the long snapper and would put 2 big guys right behind him and they would push forward. The Redskins used to do this all the time.
so that people couldn't line up directly over the long snapper. It was a safety/concussion issue since a long snapper cannot defend himself with both hands on the ball to snap it back to the holder. The result was that he took a lot of shots to the head. So you had to line up on either side of him. Nothing says you can't take advantage of him naturally staying low and trying to make a rush right up the gut like that, even if the other guys are pushing him down a bit.
Years ago, they used to line up someone right over the long snapper and would put 2 big guys right behind him and they would push forward. The Redskins used to do this all the time.
I get that, but there's a fine line between lining up right over the LS and what the Rams did. The LB is basically right over DeOssie at the snap. Is it really legal just because he started a few yards off the LOS (pre-snap) and then leapt over DeOssie? Instead of leaping over, if he had tried to run through DeOssie, would that have been legal? Seems that would go against the spirit of the rule since not only would you be hitting the LS at the snap, but you'd have extra momentum due to the running start.
Another thing Fisher mentioned was that they needed fourth & six+. Â
LEAPING
�� �� (r) Clearly running forward and leaping in an obvious attempt to block a field goal, or Try-kick after
touchdown and landing on players, unless the leaping player was originally lined up within one yard of
the line of scrimmage when the ball was snapped.
...if the ball bounces differently, the Rams are back in the game. They had two guys running past Brown when the ball was blocked, ready to scoop and score.
Heck of a play, and great design. Also, I don't think the DT over DeOssie did anything dirty. Zak was practically on the turf before he was touched. John Fassel probably spotted DeOssie's very deep pre-snap shoulder drop on tape and identified it as an opportunity to vault him. Looked like the DT just put a hand on DeOssie to keep him from popping up quickly.
Even before the block of the field goal, I thought it was best to run a 4th down play.
This was my logic. If you make the field goal, your lead only increases from 10-13, still 2 scores. What happens if you go up 13, and they get a great kickoff return, maybe even a td on the kickoff--they are back in the game. (And I had not even considered returning a blocked field goal for a score.)
Now what if you run a play on 4th down. If you make the td, you are up 17, game over. If you get a first down, game over since you now can take a knee. So the worst case scenario is you turn the ball over on downs. But then you are still up 2 scores with little time left and the rams are buried deep in their own territory.
LEAPING
�� �� (r) Clearly running forward and leaping in an obvious attempt to block a field goal, or Try-kick after
touchdown and landing on players, unless the leaping player was originally lined up within one yard of
the line of scrimmage when the ball was snapped.
That's meant for running up post snap and taking a running leap at the line and landing on all the linemen. He did neither. The only questionable thing in there that may apply is that while he was within one yard of the LOS when the ball was snapped, he wasn't "lined up". I suspect there will be a change to the rule in the offseason to prevent this move.
If the player was lined up over the longsnapper and within 1 yard of the line of scrimmage at the time of the snap (which I think he was), he should be penalized 5 yards for illegal formation:
Quote:
Rule 9 Scrimmage Kick
Article 3: Defensive Team Formation
(a) When Team A presents a punt, field-goal, or Try Kick formation, a Team B player, who is within one yard of the line of scrimmage, must have his entire body outside the snapper’s shoulder pads at the snap. Penalty: For illegal formation by the defense: Loss of five yards.
If the player was not within 1 yard of the line of scrimmage at the time of the snap then, if he had landed on another player (he didn't), he could have been penalized 15 yards with unsportsmanlike conduct for leaping:
Quote:
Rule 12 Player Conduct
Section 3 Unsportsmanlike Conduct
Article 1: Prohibited Acts. There shall be no unsportsmanlike conduct. This applies to any act which is contrary to the generally understood principles of sportsmanship. Such acts specifically include, among others:
…
(q) Running forward and leaping in an obvious attempt to block a field goal or Try Kick and landing on players, unless the leaping player was originally lined up within one yard of the line of scrimmage when the ball was snapped.
…
Penalty: For unsportsmanlike conduct (i) through (u): Loss of 15 yards from:
(a) the succeeding spot if the ball is dead.
(b) the previous spot if the ball was in play.
He did leap entirely over the line without touching anyone, but the odds of that are really not that great. If he had contacted or landed on DeOssie (if DeOssie had stood up) then it could have easily been a 1st down for the Giants.
1) Their execution seemed perfect. Any one of a number of things could have resulted in a penalty.
2) I didn't think defensive holding or any other penalty on either DT was warranted. They barely touched DeOssie. He was already going down.
3) That was a really risky play. He could very easily have been offisdes. He could very easily have been flagged for leaping if he contacted any other player because he wasn't lined up within 1 yard of the ball.
4) I wouldn't be shocked if the rule was further tweaked to protect the long snapper. If this wasn't timed perfectly, it very well could have resulted in a kick to the head of the long snapper. The rule to not have a player lineup directly over the long snapper was implemented specifically to prevent head injuries.
5) Even with everything being perfectly timed and executed, I think it still skirts the rules because in order to leap he had to be moving forward at the snap. Was he really more than 1 yard off the ball at the time of the snap? I doubt it.
A pro athlete jumped two feet in the air, blake griffin jumped over a car, i bet 50% of the guys on this forum could jump over a bent down deossie and block that kick, he wasnt even touched, he got a running start. its like jumping over a bush in your yard its really not impressive. these guys have 37inch and above vertical leaps which is jumping straight in the air from a still position they get 40inches off the ground sometimes, what is so impressive about this?
1) Their execution seemed perfect. Any one of a number of things could have resulted in a penalty.
2) I didn't think defensive holding or any other penalty on either DT was warranted. They barely touched DeOssie. He was already going down.
3) That was a really risky play. He could very easily have been offisdes. He could very easily have been flagged for leaping if he contacted any other player because he wasn't lined up within 1 yard of the ball.
4) I wouldn't be shocked if the rule was further tweaked to protect the long snapper. If this wasn't timed perfectly, it very well could have resulted in a kick to the head of the long snapper. The rule to not have a player lineup directly over the long snapper was implemented specifically to prevent head injuries.
5) Even with everything being perfectly timed and executed, I think it still skirts the rules because in order to leap he had to be moving forward at the snap. Was he really more than 1 yard off the ball at the time of the snap? I doubt it.
I disagree with #2. DeOssie isn't held, but #90 clearly pulls the guy lined up next to DeOssie (and takes DeOssie with him).
#53 who blocked the kick was not lined up within one yard of the LOS. He got a running start (at least two strides before leaving the ground) to jump over DeOssie. Should have been a penalty against the Rams, but the zebras were letting them get away with bad shit all day long and this is just one more example of how bad the officiating really was.
#53 who blocked the kick was not lined up within one yard of the LOS. He got a running start (at least two strides before leaving the ground) to jump over DeOssie. Should have been a penalty against the Rams, but the zebras were letting them get away with bad shit all day long and this is just one more example of how bad the officiating really was.
I thought this, but maybe we are wrong and maybe we don't know the rules well enough. How could the official not seen he was more than one yard from LOS? It was pretty obvious.m
...doubt that there'll be any concession by the zebras as missing any call on this play, though.
As a matter of fact, it looks completely planned by STL. The interior lineman defending the kick turn sideways, and DeOssie lunges forward falling closer to turf. Allows more space for #53 to jump the line. His timing worked well, and didn't make contact.
But if no running start is permitted, he definitely should be flagged. Looks like a planned/coached play, further reinforcing the notion of STL testing the lines of fair play.
Not being a dick. You think you should have tried to stand upright? What could he have dne differently. He was being held down by both tackles. Shouldn't that have been defensive holding?
He had the snap count perfect. Giants need to change it up. Â
If they changed it he would have been offsides. Rams specials did their film study and timed the jump at the snap.
Blue21 You hit it on the head. It is on DeOssie to change up the rhythm of the operation. It is obvious that the timing came from film study. Fortunately it didn't cost the Giants
LEAPING
�� �� (r) Clearly running forward and leaping in an obvious attempt to block a field goal, or Try-kick after
touchdown and landing on players, unless the leaping player was originally lined up within one yard of
the line of scrimmage when the ball was snapped.
That's meant for running up post snap and taking a running leap at the line and landing on all the linemen. He did neither. The only questionable thing in there that may apply is that while he was within one yard of the LOS when the ball was snapped, he wasn't "lined up". I suspect there will be a change to the rule in the offseason to prevent this move.
Fuckhead Fisher is on the competition committee that proposes rule changes, so I doubt that any rule change will be proposed.
#53 who blocked the kick was not lined up within one yard of the LOS. He got a running start (at least two strides before leaving the ground) to jump over DeOssie. Should have been a penalty against the Rams, but the zebras were letting them get away with bad shit all day long and this is just one more example of how bad the officiating really was.
This sounds right.
90 should have been called for Defensive Holding Â
DEFENSIVE HOLDING
Article 6: Defensive Holding
. It is a foul for defensive holding if:
(a) a defensive player tackles or holds any opponent other than a runner, except as permitted in Article 5; or
(b) during a punt, field goal attempt, or Try-kick attempt,
a defensive player (B1) grabs and pulls an offensive player out of the way, allowing another defensive player(s) (B2) to shoot the gap (pull and shoot) in an attempt to block
the kick, except if the defensive player (B1) is advancing toward the kicker.
And yes, very impressive by that Rams player.
To be honest, Fassel's son is turning into one of the better special teams coaches in the league. Maybe it's because he learned what not to do watching MacDuff when his dad was coach. While a great play by the Rams player, that was a coaching thing, where they saw on tape that DeOssie stays low and if you can time it right, you can jump over the center and get a clear shot at the kicker, damn near Tecmo Bowl style.
on the game replay the LB's feet were maybe 2 inches from hitting Deossie, so that was key.
the timing of the jump was quite good though
If DeOssie stands up and makes contact with the defender than yes there is a flag.
The defensive tackles hold him down to prevent this which IMO should be flagged.
Heck of a play, and great design. Also, I don't think the DT over DeOssie did anything dirty. Zak was practically on the turf before he was touched. John Fassel probably spotted DeOssie's very deep pre-snap shoulder drop on tape and identified it as an opportunity to vault him. Looked like the DT just put a hand on DeOssie to keep him from popping up quickly.
But I think people are confusing two penalties:
1. Leverage - you can't use your own teammate to push off of and leap higher. Clearly not the case here.
2. Covering the snapper - you can't line up over the LS on FGs. Since the LB is off the LOS I'm not sure if this applies or not.
Years ago, they used to line up someone right over the long snapper and would put 2 big guys right behind him and they would push forward. The Redskins used to do this all the time.
Imagine if it were a more important game and that play was the difference?
We'd be crying the blues instead of saying "cool play"
Years ago, they used to line up someone right over the long snapper and would put 2 big guys right behind him and they would push forward. The Redskins used to do this all the time.
I get that, but there's a fine line between lining up right over the LS and what the Rams did. The LB is basically right over DeOssie at the snap. Is it really legal just because he started a few yards off the LOS (pre-snap) and then leapt over DeOssie? Instead of leaping over, if he had tried to run through DeOssie, would that have been legal? Seems that would go against the spirit of the rule since not only would you be hitting the LS at the snap, but you'd have extra momentum due to the running start.
It's not a waste if you're trying to climb the coaching ranks.
LEAPING
�� �� (r) Clearly running forward and leaping in an obvious attempt to block a field goal, or Try-kick after
touchdown and landing on players, unless the leaping player was originally lined up within one yard of
the line of scrimmage when the ball was snapped.
Heck of a play, and great design. Also, I don't think the DT over DeOssie did anything dirty. Zak was practically on the turf before he was touched. John Fassel probably spotted DeOssie's very deep pre-snap shoulder drop on tape and identified it as an opportunity to vault him. Looked like the DT just put a hand on DeOssie to keep him from popping up quickly.
Even before the block of the field goal, I thought it was best to run a 4th down play.
This was my logic. If you make the field goal, your lead only increases from 10-13, still 2 scores. What happens if you go up 13, and they get a great kickoff return, maybe even a td on the kickoff--they are back in the game. (And I had not even considered returning a blocked field goal for a score.)
Now what if you run a play on 4th down. If you make the td, you are up 17, game over. If you get a first down, game over since you now can take a knee. So the worst case scenario is you turn the ball over on downs. But then you are still up 2 scores with little time left and the rams are buried deep in their own territory.
LEAPING
�� �� (r) Clearly running forward and leaping in an obvious attempt to block a field goal, or Try-kick after
touchdown and landing on players, unless the leaping player was originally lined up within one yard of
the line of scrimmage when the ball was snapped.
That's meant for running up post snap and taking a running leap at the line and landing on all the linemen. He did neither. The only questionable thing in there that may apply is that while he was within one yard of the LOS when the ball was snapped, he wasn't "lined up". I suspect there will be a change to the rule in the offseason to prevent this move.
Article 3: Defensive Team Formation
(a) When Team A presents a punt, field-goal, or Try Kick formation, a Team B player, who is within one yard of the line of scrimmage, must have his entire body outside the snapper’s shoulder pads at the snap. Penalty: For illegal formation by the defense: Loss of five yards.
If the player was not within 1 yard of the line of scrimmage at the time of the snap then, if he had landed on another player (he didn't), he could have been penalized 15 yards with unsportsmanlike conduct for leaping:
Section 3 Unsportsmanlike Conduct
Article 1: Prohibited Acts. There shall be no unsportsmanlike conduct. This applies to any act which is contrary to the generally understood principles of sportsmanship. Such acts specifically include, among others:
…
(q) Running forward and leaping in an obvious attempt to block a field goal or Try Kick and landing on players, unless the leaping player was originally lined up within one yard of the line of scrimmage when the ball was snapped.
…
Penalty: For unsportsmanlike conduct (i) through (u): Loss of 15 yards from:
(a) the succeeding spot if the ball is dead.
(b) the previous spot if the ball was in play.
He did leap entirely over the line without touching anyone, but the odds of that are really not that great. If he had contacted or landed on DeOssie (if DeOssie had stood up) then it could have easily been a 1st down for the Giants.
2) I didn't think defensive holding or any other penalty on either DT was warranted. They barely touched DeOssie. He was already going down.
3) That was a really risky play. He could very easily have been offisdes. He could very easily have been flagged for leaping if he contacted any other player because he wasn't lined up within 1 yard of the ball.
4) I wouldn't be shocked if the rule was further tweaked to protect the long snapper. If this wasn't timed perfectly, it very well could have resulted in a kick to the head of the long snapper. The rule to not have a player lineup directly over the long snapper was implemented specifically to prevent head injuries.
5) Even with everything being perfectly timed and executed, I think it still skirts the rules because in order to leap he had to be moving forward at the snap. Was he really more than 1 yard off the ball at the time of the snap? I doubt it.
2) I didn't think defensive holding or any other penalty on either DT was warranted. They barely touched DeOssie. He was already going down.
3) That was a really risky play. He could very easily have been offisdes. He could very easily have been flagged for leaping if he contacted any other player because he wasn't lined up within 1 yard of the ball.
4) I wouldn't be shocked if the rule was further tweaked to protect the long snapper. If this wasn't timed perfectly, it very well could have resulted in a kick to the head of the long snapper. The rule to not have a player lineup directly over the long snapper was implemented specifically to prevent head injuries.
5) Even with everything being perfectly timed and executed, I think it still skirts the rules because in order to leap he had to be moving forward at the snap. Was he really more than 1 yard off the ball at the time of the snap? I doubt it.
I disagree with #2. DeOssie isn't held, but #90 clearly pulls the guy lined up next to DeOssie (and takes DeOssie with him).
I thought this, but maybe we are wrong and maybe we don't know the rules well enough. How could the official not seen he was more than one yard from LOS? It was pretty obvious.m
As a matter of fact, it looks completely planned by STL. The interior lineman defending the kick turn sideways, and DeOssie lunges forward falling closer to turf. Allows more space for #53 to jump the line. His timing worked well, and didn't make contact.
But if no running start is permitted, he definitely should be flagged. Looks like a planned/coached play, further reinforcing the notion of STL testing the lines of fair play.
Not being a dick. You think you should have tried to stand upright? What could he have dne differently. He was being held down by both tackles. Shouldn't that have been defensive holding?
Blue21 You hit it on the head. It is on DeOssie to change up the rhythm of the operation. It is obvious that the timing came from film study. Fortunately it didn't cost the Giants
Quote:
Section 3 Unsportsmanlike Conduct
LEAPING
�� �� (r) Clearly running forward and leaping in an obvious attempt to block a field goal, or Try-kick after
touchdown and landing on players, unless the leaping player was originally lined up within one yard of
the line of scrimmage when the ball was snapped.
That's meant for running up post snap and taking a running leap at the line and landing on all the linemen. He did neither. The only questionable thing in there that may apply is that while he was within one yard of the LOS when the ball was snapped, he wasn't "lined up". I suspect there will be a change to the rule in the offseason to prevent this move.
Fuckhead Fisher is on the competition committee that proposes rule changes, so I doubt that any rule change will be proposed.
This sounds right.
Article 6: Defensive Holding
. It is a foul for defensive holding if:
(a) a defensive player tackles or holds any opponent other than a runner, except as permitted in Article 5; or
(b) during a punt, field goal attempt, or Try-kick attempt,
a defensive player (B1) grabs and pulls an offensive player out of the way, allowing another defensive player(s) (B2) to shoot the gap (pull and shoot) in an attempt to block
the kick, except if the defensive player (B1) is advancing toward the kicker.