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I'm excited about this team, the arrow is pointing up....

kmed : 12/22/2014 10:15 am
I remember how this season went when the schedule was tough. I know we've feasted on some bad teams and I know Eric is convinced that we shouldn't be too excited for that reason, but I don't care. I am excited. We are a really, really young team and I think this is more of our young players coming along than just feasting on crappy teams.

Offensively, I think we are 2 players away from being really, really good. We will have a full season of McAdoo's system(plus offseason tweaks). We add a guard and a legit TE to this group and we are going to be really tough to stop. OBJ, Cruz and Randle is a good young group of WR's. Andre Williams is starting to look a lot better now that he's getting PT and Jennings is a very good, well rounded back. Our OL is playing better and if we move Richburg inside and add a really tough guard to the mix, I think they will continue to progress. I like Donnell, but I'd like him more as the #2 TE. I'd love to see Eli with a legit TE talent.

Defensively, we have some really good young players in Moore, Wynn, Hankins and Kennard. With Prince and DRC, we have 2 legit corners. I really hope we bring back Rolle and pray that Beason comes back healthy. We don't need to add a ton of talent, but I'd like another playmaking LB.

I am convinced that this team is just getting a lot better rather than facing bad teams.
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Fewell's defenses have allowed too many blowouts,  
81_Great_Dane : 12/22/2014 10:36 am : link
given up too many big plays, have put way too much pressure on the offense.

I don't think he's had terrific personnel but even so, at some point you have to say "We know what we have, and it's not good enough. Let's get someone better." -- much as they did with the transition from Gilbride to McAdoo.

The risk you take is that the guy you get ends up actually being worse.
No question,  
kmed : 12/22/2014 10:37 am : link
Beckham improves the whole offense. I am a big Jennings fan, but no back is having a lot of success behind this line. He's strong at the point of attack, he's quick, fast, has good hands and can block. I am concerned with his ability to stay healthy, but having Williams behind him helps. I'm not opposed to adding some speed back there.

At WR, assuming Cruz comes back and I'm convinced that he will, we are set. 3 talented and young WR's. Add a guard and a TE and look out.
The defensive side of the ball has become  
bradshaw44 : 12/22/2014 10:41 am : link
The bigger concern. The injuries and the shitty coaching are my worry. We need a new DC and some depth all around the D. Offensively I think we just need one starting guard and a solid back up OL. I don't want this offense to be in constant shoot outs.
The key to a good defense is getting pressure on the QB  
kmed : 12/22/2014 10:43 am : link
and with the emergence of Moore and Wynn, assuming JPP comes back, we are looking solid. Hankins looks to be beastly in the middle as well and Kennard has shown flashes of some real ability.
I'm also a big Prince fan  
kmed : 12/22/2014 10:45 am : link
and I think DRC has proven that he's a legit CB1. A new cooredinator MIGHT help, but the talent is close.
kmed. You make a very good point which applies regardless of  
Marty in Albany : 12/22/2014 10:48 am : link
whether we win or lose. It is great to watch young players develop and succeed on the field compared to past years when many of the players we had high hopes for turned into major disappointments.

With luck, this year will be a foundation for future improvements. IMHO it would be a real stretch to think of it as a springboard for contention next season.
Yeah we would need a lot to go our way  
kmed : 12/22/2014 10:50 am : link
for us to contend next year, but it's certainly not a stretch. Offensively, when you have Eli to Beckham, you are going to score points. We need to add some playmakers on defense, but we aren't that far away.
I agree with you.  
Matt M. : 12/22/2014 10:54 am : link
I think the keys for a huge improvement are:

1) 2 OL - Either 2 OG or an OG and RT. either way, Richburg needs to be at OC. A healthy Schwartz can be one of those OGs. Pugh may move inside, although I think putting a good player next to him will improve his play at RT.

2) TE - Donnell was a nice surprise. But, his play tailed off in the second half. And, he just is a terrible blocker. We need a legit #1 TE.

3) At least 1 legitimate starting DE. This depends on whether JPP is re-signed. Regardless, I like Ayers, Moore, and Wynn to rotate in. But, none are starting DEs to take a majority of snaps.

4) 1 more DT - I really like Hankins and Jenkins is a nice compliment. I am excited for Bromley, but we could use an upgrade over Kuhn to rotate in.

5) At least 1 LB - Kennard has been all over the field since getting playing time. He is the first playmaking LB on the outside in a long time for us. I feel like with better players around him, McClain is a decent MLB, but I would prefer him outside as well.

6) We need to upgrade S.

When everyone is healthy, we should be set at CB, with Prince and DRC as one of the better tandems in the league.
The last few games have hinted that we could have  
chops : 12/22/2014 10:55 am : link
a dominating offense in 2015. The big ??? is, what do

we need ,in players to beat the Cowboys who have

taken over the lead in the Div?
That may sound like a lot  
Matt M. : 12/22/2014 10:58 am : link
But between the draft and FA, it is more than manageable. We have stars on offense in Manning and Beckham. A healthy Cruz, along with Randle provide nice complements at WR and we have enough guys, plus the draft to fill out the WRs. Jennings and Williams are nice compliments. Williams has begun to show more patience and trust as a runner. if he progresses, I wouldn't spend a pick on a RB unless there was an absolute stud available, which isn't likely in this draft.

On D, I think we need more. But, we have guys that can make plays. I think most importantly, we need a new DC and system.
RE: Fewell's defenses have allowed too many blowouts,  
Les in TO : 12/22/2014 10:59 am : link
In comment 12048701 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
given up too many big plays, have put way too much pressure on the offense.

I don't think he's had terrific personnel but even so, at some point you have to say "We know what we have, and it's not good enough. Let's get someone better." -- much as they did with the transition from Gilbride to McAdoo.

The risk you take is that the guy you get ends up actually being worse.


i don't know what's worse than allowing wide-open touchdowns and big plays week after week because of scheme and mental breakdowns as opposed to talent deficincies. the choice of the next defensive coordinator will go along way in determining whether the giants get back into playoff contention.
kmed  
DavidinBMNY : 12/22/2014 11:00 am : link
I will say I am more optimistic this year heading into the off-season, then last year.

Manning, Beatty and JPP all bounced back. The young players are showing something. And DRC and Ayers look like very good FA signings.

Let's steal the cowboys blueprint for success and fix the OL for real via drafting another quality OL in the first 3 rds and let's improve back 7 on D and get another weapon for offense.

There is a legitimate shot this team could be over 500 next year.
I think  
AnishPatel : 12/22/2014 11:01 am : link
that's the issue when playing shitty ass teams. Now all of a sudden our team looks good. I think our offense has come along from the pre season to now. But I am not sure I would say the arrow is pointing up yet. Let's see how we add talent this off season. Let's see how this team progresses on offense. I am curious to see how OBJ does in year 2 now that teams have an off season to prepare for him, and pro personnel scouts do their hw on him.

On defense we still have a ways to go. If we change systems, then we are back to square one.

So I am not ready to say the arrow is point up. I think it's not pointing down, which is a good sign. I think it's holding at neutral. This off season will tell us where the arrow could be pointing.
Nothing has changed since the losing streak  
Go Terps : 12/22/2014 11:02 am : link
The offense has some good young pieces, the defense needs to be completely rebuilt. I think this team probably bottomed out in 2013. This year the football was improved. The 2013 team should have been 4-12 but wasn't because of poor competition. This year's record will more accurately reflect the level of the roster.
I want Prince  
beatrixkiddo : 12/22/2014 11:05 am : link
and JPP locked up long term. Safety and another LB is critical in the off-season. A new DC that can utilize the talent we have on defense like McAdoo does on Offense would do dividends.

On offense we do need another TE, a true two way TE. Doesn't have to be anything overly spectacular, but someone that is consistent and tough. An OG with the addition of a healthy Schwartz and Richburg playing C will see much improvement. I think we need another RB; I wonder how far someone like Gurley drops because of the injury, or where a Duke Johnson type goes. Either way I'd look to add one in the draft. Bring in a solid vet FA WR as depth as insurance of Cruz, and hope Randle can continue to build on the performance he had yesterday, and we are looking really good.

I am confident this can all be shored up in the off-season. Here's to hoping that along with a new DC, we get a new training staff so we aren't always leading the league in injuries.
Look what dallas' defense has done  
Lionhart28 : 12/22/2014 11:12 am : link
with a significant dearth of talent... Marinelli has done a ridiculous job. Giants have enough talent on defense to be much better and more consistent than they have been. That is on Fewell, and he needs to be gone.
I'm starting to really like this team.  
River Mike : 12/22/2014 11:15 am : link
I don't mean that I think they are top tier talent, but I'm liking the team itself, TC, Mac, the character of the players, the no-quit attitude, the "family"attitude etc.
I think what makes me fell better about this end as opposed  
Giants11 : 12/22/2014 11:20 am : link
to last year is that it's not a bunch of vets on a salary drive like last year. through necessity or by choice we've had to throw kids in there this year and they really have performed well. Wynn looks like he really has rotation potential. Don't forget Ayres was a beast before he went on IR. Last year's draft is shaping up to be 2007 type level. Hopefully we keep it going this off season.
RE: RE: Totally agree  
drkenneth : 12/22/2014 11:25 am : link
In comment 12048663 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 12048611 Josh in the City said:


Quote:


Love this McAdoo offense and how he tailors the scheme for his personnel. Such a nice departure from the Gilbride offense of trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Now we just need to continue solidifying the offensive line in the offseason and the sky's the limit next season.

What a load of horseshit. He "square pegged" his way to two Lombardi's and the greatest run of offense the Giants saw since YA Tittle in the early 60's. McAdoo hasn't won shit yet, and if you notice, put some points on the board yesterday by dispensing with the 3 yard and a cloud of dust passes and going vertical-just like Gilbride.

Enough with this dissing of Gilbride. Some of you guys are ridiculous.


Gilbride invented the forward pass. As well as fire, and the rotary engine.
RE: I think what makes me fell better about this end as opposed  
GIANTSr01 : 12/22/2014 11:28 am : link
In comment 12048889 Giants11 said:
Quote:
to last year is that it's not a bunch of vets on a salary drive like last year. through necessity or by choice we've had to throw kids in there this year and they really have performed well. Wynn looks like he really has rotation potential. Don't forget Ayres was a beast before he went on IR. Last year's draft is shaping up to be 2007 type level. Hopefully we keep it going this off season.


^This. You can't feel disappointed about the Ws costing us draft position when the catalysts for the Ws are the young guys (Beckham/Williams/Kennard obviously, but Richburg/Pugh/Hankins and others have all played at a high level). These guys are the core of the team for the next 3+ seasons.
We do have a lot of young talent....  
kmed : 12/22/2014 11:31 am : link
OBJ, Randle(will he reach full potential is another story), Pugh, Richburg, Wynn, Moore, Hankins, Kennard, Andre Williams.

The arrow is pointing up indeed  
exiled : 12/22/2014 11:35 am : link
A lot of opportunity during the off season to make this team competitive again.
RE: We do have a lot of young talent....  
GIANTSr01 : 12/22/2014 11:38 am : link
In comment 12048941 kmed said:
Quote:
OBJ, Randle(will he reach full potential is another story), Pugh, Richburg, Wynn, Moore, Hankins, Kennard, Andre Williams.


Hopefully JPP. Prince is still young though not signed long term.

And Eli is relatively young in QB-years.
Yeah there are some good players  
kmed : 12/22/2014 11:48 am : link
just starting their prime. Prince and JPP to name a few. Cruz can be in that category.
finding  
Headhunter : 12/22/2014 11:50 am : link
Wynn,Darkwa improves this year's class
Not possible  
speedywheels : 12/22/2014 11:52 am : link
According to many on here, we suck. We were told to disregard the last two wins, because they were against two teams that sucked more than us; we were told it's fools gold, wait until they play a real team, blah, blah, blah.

Then they played at team with a legit defense, and hung 37 points on them; Rams hadn't given up a TD in three games, and Giants scored 4.

In fact, some told us this team sucked on March 12th, so there is nothing to see here...
I think the Giants can compete for the division next year  
NYG07 : 12/22/2014 11:57 am : link
I think dallas is going to take a step back. They are in cap hell and need to resign Dez Bryant and Murray. They will probably lose Murray in FA.

I don't see how Fewell comes back. We should have a new defense next year (hopefully an attacking one). The number one priority to me has to be resigning JPP. I also could see Rolle coming back on a team friendly deal. He seems to love being a Giant.

I would like to see the giants add a mauling guard, a safety oppositte rolle and a weakside linebacker who can cover tight ends. If Cruz prince and beason come back healthy I think this team can win 10 games next year.
It finally is pointing back up  
dpinzow : 12/22/2014 11:59 am : link
The Giants finally beat a legitimate defense on the road scoring 37 points in the process. You can't take much out of beating teams like Atlanta, Washington or Tennessee but the Rams beat Denver by holding them to 7 pts and the Seahawks in their building. They did not allow a TD in 3 games before we put up 37
RE: Why is Donnell  
snumber6 : 12/22/2014 12:03 pm : link
In comment 12048620 Headhunter said:
Quote:
not a legit TE? I get his blocking needs work, but catching the football( then landing on his head) is outstanding


Not yet ... but he's getting there rapidly ...
give him a little time to become an all around TE ... he was practice squad material who was not even invited to the combine ... he still has a lot of learning to do ... but has shown he can ...
i'm always gonna be somewhat optimistic about this franchise  
djm : 12/22/2014 12:27 pm : link
but I do like what this team has displayed offensively. They actually have surprised me on offense. I thought we'd run the ball a little better as a whole but the Jennings/Schwartz injury was a killer but the passing game has been a pleasant surprise. I didn't think Beckham would be Jesus Christ on a football field and even guys like Parker and Donnell have at least held their own. ELi has been great, especially lately.

We are getting closer. Need another good off-season.
We need  
Mr. Nickels : 12/22/2014 12:59 pm : link
a Tackle a Tight End could use a speed back to compliment Jennings and A Williams

Don't forget about Jernigan he looked great end of last year I would bring him back.. Beckham Cruz Randle Jernigan and I would consider making a play for Randall Cobb.
I don't think we need a guy like Cobb.  
kmed : 12/22/2014 1:01 pm : link
Assuming Cruz is healthy, he's our slot guy. We can use that money for another position. I also don't think we will be looking for a tackle as Pugh and Beatty are both young and ascending. Add a bigtime guard, shift Richburg over and we are all set.
I think Donnel can be the #1, we  
giantgiantfan : 12/22/2014 1:08 pm : link
don't need a Jimmy Graham level TE. Just pickup a #2/#3 tight end that is a top notch blocker and continue to develop Donnel.
I don't think we "need" Jimmy Graham,  
kmed : 12/22/2014 1:10 pm : link
but I really would like to upgrade our TE position and give Eli a legit TE for the first time since Shockey. There is a large gap between Graham and Donnell.
I don't think the Giants  
djm : 12/22/2014 1:18 pm : link
spend whatever financial resources they have on another big ticket WR. I think they will sign a solid under the radar type. They don't need a super star WR what they need is Randle to emerge as a good solid player and Cruz to come back. Not to mention, Cruz makes good money and Beckham will cost a fortune eventually.

Even if Randle isn't the answer, I think the offense can get by with a serviceable guy at WR alongside Beck and Cruz.

TE and RB and OL. That's where there's a hole unless you think Donnell is gonna get a lot better. I think he's an average talent. Williams is emerging at RB but what is his upside? Jennings? I'd like one more RB.
the arrow is pointing up  
fkap : 12/22/2014 1:18 pm : link
and will continue until next season when we start playing meaningful games, at which point it'll start pointing sideways or down. the only caveat is if we have a magical offseason. this team and staff are a long way from being upper tier.
RE: I don't think we  
AnishPatel : 12/22/2014 1:22 pm : link
In comment 12049354 kmed said:
Quote:
but I really would like to upgrade our TE position and give Eli a legit TE for the first time since Shockey. There is a large gap between Graham and Donnell.



Right now we are not getting any consistent production at TE. I want someone that can be used as a weapon. These TEs we have are useless. We need more weapons for Eli.
It's all about competition. Feel good about Eli and OBJ.  
RDJR : 12/22/2014 1:34 pm : link
Otherwise it is a difficult cast to simply say the "arrow is pointing up" about. We are what our record says we are, 6-9 with one to go. That is not good and we are not a good team. False optimism doomed this team this season, I hope we don't fall to a similar fate next season.
The NFL has become such a year-to-year league...  
hitchchops : 12/22/2014 1:35 pm : link
...I don't think there are any arrows anymore. We have no clue what the coaching staff or roster will look like next season, so to assume any carryover is foolhardy. Yes there is young talent, but there are also huge question marks and areas of concern that balance that out. And we have one quality win in two seasons, which is where we are as a franchise right now. Sadly, we have become the team that good teams have to focus on not looking past.
Donnell  
Marty866b : 12/22/2014 1:39 pm : link
Poor blocker,good hands, The worst runner with the ball as a tight end I've ever seen. We need to upgrade the position.
RE: I don't think we  
GIANTSr01 : 12/22/2014 1:40 pm : link
In comment 12049354 kmed said:
Quote:
but I really would like to upgrade our TE position and give Eli a legit TE for the first time since Shockey. There is a large gap between Graham and Donnell.


I'd almost prefer a guy like Bennett. Donnell's probably been above average in the passing game, but his struggles in the run game have been well documented. They need someone that can help open holes there, especially if they want to use the TE in different sets.
4 fumbles  
Headhunter : 12/22/2014 1:42 pm : link
61 receptions 597 yards 6 TD's 35 first down receptions. Wish we drafted Jace Amaro or Eric Ebron
RE: Fewell's defenses have allowed too many blowouts,  
Simms11 : 12/22/2014 2:49 pm : link
In comment 12048701 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
given up too many big plays, have put way too much pressure on the offense.

I don't think he's had terrific personnel but even so, at some point you have to say "We know what we have, and it's not good enough. Let's get someone better." -- much as they did with the transition from Gilbride to McAdoo.

The risk you take is that the guy you get ends up actually being worse.


How can you be worse then the #28 defense! Well, maybe you can, but Fewell's defenses have been bad consistently, other then 2011 playoffs with a fearsome pass rush.
I think the arrow is up too....  
BillKo : 12/22/2014 3:00 pm : link
but that's mainly with a offensive system that should improve next year because of understanding and growth. And of course some new weapons.

Defensively, we are a mess but a keen eye will see there is young talent there.

to get 8-10 wins next year, and be a more consistent team overall week to week, is not entirely out of the question.

Smart drafting and planning get you back to legit contention in 2016...and that really could happen next year.
RE: I think  
joe48 : 12/22/2014 4:12 pm : link
In comment 12048805 AnishPatel said:
Quote:
that's the issue when playing shitty ass teams. Now all of a sudden our team looks good. I think our offense has come along from the pre season to now. But I am not sure I would say the arrow is pointing up yet. Let's see how we add talent this off season. Let's see how this team progresses on offense. I am curious to see how OBJ does in year 2 now that teams have an off season to prepare for him, and pro personnel scouts do their hw on him.

On defense we still have a ways to go. If we change systems, then we are back to square one.

So I am not ready to say the arrow is point up. I think it's not pointing down, which is a good sign. I think it's holding at neutral. This off season will tell us where the arrow could be pointing.
As bad as we played this year against the better teams the difference between 6 or 7 wins and 10 is achievable for us next year. There is so much parity in the NFL. The key will be staying healthy.
RE: RE: I don't think we  
arcarsenal : 12/22/2014 4:15 pm : link
In comment 12049444 GIANTSr01 said:
Quote:
In comment 12049354 kmed said:


Quote:


but I really would like to upgrade our TE position and give Eli a legit TE for the first time since Shockey. There is a large gap between Graham and Donnell.



I'd almost prefer a guy like Bennett. Donnell's probably been above average in the passing game, but his struggles in the run game have been well documented. They need someone that can help open holes there, especially if they want to use the TE in different sets.


There are maybe 3-5 teams in football who wouldn't prefer Bennett to the guy they've got.
arc  
GIANTSr01 : 12/22/2014 4:22 pm : link
fair enough, but I was talking more about preferring a "poor man's" Bennett to a poor man's Jimmy Graham.

As long as TC is in charge, the Giants will want to run the ball and with the creativity McAdoo has shown, I think a 2-way TE is preferable to a WR in a TE's body. I think it would be fun to see what McAdoo could do with a guy like Delanie Walker for example.

RE: RE: Totally agree  
Josh in the City : 12/22/2014 4:29 pm : link
In comment 12048663 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 12048611 Josh in the City said:


Quote:


Love this McAdoo offense and how he tailors the scheme for his personnel. Such a nice departure from the Gilbride offense of trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Now we just need to continue solidifying the offensive line in the offseason and the sky's the limit next season.

What a load of horseshit. He "square pegged" his way to two Lombardi's and the greatest run of offense the Giants saw since YA Tittle in the early 60's. McAdoo hasn't won shit yet, and if you notice, put some points on the board yesterday by dispensing with the 3 yard and a cloud of dust passes and going vertical-just like Gilbride.

Enough with this dissing of Gilbride. Some of you guys are ridiculous.


You're just wrong. When the personnel fit his scheme it worked to perfection. As soon as there was an injury or two and players either had to understand the complexity of the offense it crumbled to pieces. Then there are talented players who's talent was never maximized b/c the offense was never adapted to them (but rather vice versa). You can love Gilbride all you want but there's no arguing that in his offense you either fit his scheme or you were toast.
RE: RE: Fewell's defenses have allowed too many blowouts,  
Matt M. : 12/22/2014 4:34 pm : link
In comment 12049646 Simms11 said:
Quote:
In comment 12048701 81_Great_Dane said:


Quote:


given up too many big plays, have put way too much pressure on the offense.

I don't think he's had terrific personnel but even so, at some point you have to say "We know what we have, and it's not good enough. Let's get someone better." -- much as they did with the transition from Gilbride to McAdoo.

The risk you take is that the guy you get ends up actually being worse.



How can you be worse then the #28 defense! Well, maybe you can, but Fewell's defenses have been bad consistently, other then 2011 playoffs with a fearsome pass rush.
The 2011 defense was also bad. They had a good pass rush, but did not have a statistically good season. They just played well in the post season. That season was pretty much entirely on Eli and the passing game.
We would have been a playoff team this year had we had five less injur  
SGMen : 12/22/2014 11:21 pm : link
and/or 1 less mishaps.

1. OG Schwartz - clearly an upgrade over Jerry/Richburg.
2. FS Will Hill - Brown/Demps outright sucked.
3. WR V. Cruz - he'd have caught a lot of easy balls.
4. WR O. Beckham - a full season and he has 100-1400-16 type numbers maybe?
5. LB J. Beason - our leader and good run stuffer.
6. CB Prince - we just don't have much at CB.

Injuries happen but if we had these guys we'd have survived some of the closer games possibly. Who is to say we don't beat AZ, SF and Jacksonville with these guys in for the full season? playoffs? Maybe beat Dallas at home even. who knows.

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