A couple of weeks ago i posted about some of the issues facing the offensive line - namely cohesion, communication, gap responsibility and the constant shift in personnel. For most of the season the Giants had "guys" blocking rather than a "unit".
Starting with the Tennessee game the line was finally once again together as a starting unit from left to right - Beatty, Richburg, Walton, Jerry and Pugh. I contended that from that point on we would see a marked improvement in line play namely in protecting the QB and greatly improving the running game.
So since that time here's what we're looking at:
106 yards per game rushing (with a rookie at RB)
283 yards per game passing
7 passing TDs
1 INT
And possibly the best stat:
2 sacks allowed
Now i realize the first two games were against arguably lesser competition but yesterday offered a real test against a blitzing, aggressive, well-coached (to a point), and talented defense that hadn't allowed a TD in three games and surrendered a total of 6 points over that span.
Quinn did nothing yesterday, Long did nothing yesterday and the much-heralded rookie Donald pitched a complete shutout with 0 tackles and 0 sacks. Eli had time, the pocket was solid, he could move a bit and he could get the ball out cleanly with little pressure in his face.
What we've seen is a solid unit that is effectively relying upon each other to maintain integrity in the gaps and neutralization of the 1-technique slant and TE twists that Walton, Jerry and the band-aid Guards had trouble with during the losing streak. The G play has really improved since that time - yes, John Jerry has played well (though i'm not sold on him at all moving into next season).
As i've said before, i think the Giants have to look at personnel changes in the offseason perhaps at C and absolutely at one of the G positions once Schwartz has time to rehab. I think Pugh can stay outside (I really like a road grader at playside G spot - someone who can reach the 3-technique tackle and get out in space - and i don't see Pugh as that guy) and given another year in a pro S& C program, Richburg will improve even more.
And Beatty has held up well considering the bad injury he came back from and a new system installed by the coaching staff. He's our LT moving forward - partly based on the contract, partly based on there being no can't-miss LT in the draft or FA.
Finally, a bit lost in all of this is the improvement in Andre Williams' picking up blitzers. He whiffed once yesterday leading to the Rams only sack but after that he was absolutely murdering oncoming rushers. He plays very physical football and has to improve his blocking if the Giants are to push him into a #1 spot next year. Again, give the kid another offseason and he'll be even better.
We're not out of the woods yet - and we're safe from full rebuild mode - but with a more cohesive and healthy unit there is a good amount to look forward to going into 2015.
2 of them were questionable, 1 was on Walton apparently (i didn't see it but i heard the refs got #55 mixed up with #65). Beatty deserves credit for taking one of the best outside rushers out of the game.
The deep stuff has to be a consistent part of our playbook and it starts up front.
Week 16 is the best they've looked all year considering the foe. I think the main issue was Pugh not being 100% earlier in the year. Since he's been back, he's shown he's the stout guy from last year and not the guy getting thrown around earlier this year. Cohesion is definitely a part of it, but you'd like to see it come together before week 14.
The bottom line: we need 6 quality lineman going into next year. Other teams' castoffs not included.
Yesterday was impressive though. Rams D has been as good as anyone lately.
Yesterday was impressive though. Rams D has been as good as anyone lately.
yeah, i didn't include the Jacksonville game because the Game 1 starting unit was not out there but carry on. That would eliminate the purpose and premise of the point being made.
only thing I'll add though is the Rams DL while maybe formidable, is not proficient at sacking the QB.
they have just 37 sacks in 15 games (7 less than the Giants). They are middle of the pack.
At one point Rams DL coach (former Giants DL coach Mike Waufle) called Mike Strahan and asked him "why aren't these guys getting to the QB?"
So, I agree the line play was great and allowed us to see what a McAdoo offense should look like holding the Rams to one sack or whatever it was is slightly below their average.
only thing I'll add though is the Rams DL while maybe formidable, is not proficient at sacking the QB.
they have just 37 sacks in 15 games (7 less than the Giants). They are middle of the pack.
At one point Rams DL coach (former Giants DL coach Mike Waufle) called Mike Strahan and asked him "why aren't these guys getting to the QB?"
So, I agree the line play was great and allowed us to see what a McAdoo offense should look like holding the Rams to one sack or whatever it was is slightly below their average.
pj - the Rams have more sacks from Game 6 on than any other team in the league. The numbers are a bit skewed because they started out so poorly.
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There's no argument. Jax/Tenn suck defensively.
Yesterday was impressive though. Rams D has been as good as anyone lately.
yeah, i didn't include the Jacksonville game because the Game 1 starting unit was not out there but carry on. That would eliminate the purpose and premise of the point being made.
Sorry, Washington/Tennessee. Washington's D is middle of the pack overall and bottom third against the pass. They shut down the run game though.
But I agree with your general premise that the OL is improving and like I said, yesterday was damn impressive. Dismantled that dirty POS team. I think it's clear that Pugh was playing hurt early in the year. He's looked MUCH better the last few weeks.
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and you know a hundred times more about this than me. especially the dynamics of what makes an OL successful
only thing I'll add though is the Rams DL while maybe formidable, is not proficient at sacking the QB.
they have just 37 sacks in 15 games (7 less than the Giants). They are middle of the pack.
At one point Rams DL coach (former Giants DL coach Mike Waufle) called Mike Strahan and asked him "why aren't these guys getting to the QB?"
So, I agree the line play was great and allowed us to see what a McAdoo offense should look like holding the Rams to one sack or whatever it was is slightly below their average.
pj - the Rams have more sacks from Game 6 on than any other team in the league. The numbers are a bit skewed because they started out so poorly.
that's probably when Waufle called Strahan, I remember hearing Strahan discuss it on whatever network pre-game show he's on.
we have this exact O-Line starting to get a rhythm playing together. would not b surprised to see us bring everyone back, even re-sign jerry, and keep pounding away with improved talent at the skill positions
The last three games with the Day 1 line looks like this in terms of QB hits:
5 - Tennessee
6 - Washington
4 - STL
The three games prior:
9 - San Francisco
6 - Dallas
8 - Jacksonville
Eli was hit almost twice as much when the patchwork line was deployed and the TFL numbers are increased as well. We all know how well Eli plays when given time and they've done a much better job with the starting unit in there.
we have this exact O-Line starting to get a rhythm playing together. would not b surprised to see us bring everyone back, even re-sign jerry, and keep pounding away with improved talent at the skill positions
I think Jerry/Walton can be upgraded though Walton is likely to be on the team as a backup at least. Richburg will hopefully be a big improvement at OC and I fully believe a healthy Schwartz is >>> Jerry. Add another OG in FA (and a young guy for depth in the 3rd/4th) and they have the making of a solid OL.
That said, I think the likelihood of the team taking a Scherff from Iowa goes up now. I don't see him being a very high pick which is what was in the picture a few weeks ago. But, if we're drafting around 12 again, I think that's more in line with his value and he can have the same effect on this line that Martin had with the Cowboys. He could be the missing piece to make them whole. Put a top grade lineman who can open a hole next to a healthy Pugh with Beatty, Schwartz and Richburg and that would be a pretty decent line.
Last point, I know that Walton and Jerry have been regularly ripped here and notwithstanding Jerry's good performance the last 2 weeks, I not sold on him by a long shot. Jerry has ability but he's never been consistent. But, I don't think Walton is nearly as bad as portrayed here. He is susceptible to a bull rush but so was
O'Hara and probably most centers. But, whether it was missing all that time because of injury and/or personnel on either side of him, he seems alot better lately to me and I think the cerebral side of the centers game is understated. I think he has value going forward (but not as much as Richburg at the position). He's not a bum in my opinion and was a good signing.
Might just be perception, but it definitely seems like the opposite is true and that they've been taking more deep shots the last few weeks.
Half of the starters suck?
OK. You're not referring to Pugh or Beatty. So it's gotta be 2 of the other 3.
Explain your position please. Tell us why they suck? What are you seeing in their technique or communication and ability to effectively work as a unit since they've all been back together? Please be specific.
Or are you just mouthbreathing all over your keyboard and you honestly don't know what you're taking about?
You obviously didn't read the op. Or this one.
My fault Cane.
As for Williams, i am not so sure the plan is make him the primary back next year. I envision more of a 1 and 1A with him and Jennings.
As for Williams, i am not so sure the plan is make him the primary back next year. I envision more of a 1 and 1A with him and Jennings.
Matt - i outlined personnel moves in the previous thread. I see Pugh staying where he is and the Giants looking for a G (hopefully only one when Schwartz comes back) in the draft or FA. That is if Walton is bumped and Richburg is kicked to C. Walton has been ok these last three games but he's still a bit stiff, weak at the PoA and can get manhandled by bigger, very physical DTs. I think he's a depth guy and it's nice to have some versatility there with Richburg's ability to play at the G or C spots.
As for Williams - i only mention him because in his first year of being the top back Jennings broke down multiple times. Going forward i don't see him being counted on yet the last thing i'd like to see is the need to draft yet another RB to fill the void.
The OL needs depth and one more T taken high in the draft. 1st or 2nd rd. Beatty will be 30 next year. Not ancient but there is literally no one on the roster who is a legit back up LT. Drafting a versitile guy who could start a G a year or two or be that road grader RT If Pugh does slide inside is hardly a bad idea.
Jerry has showed what he has showed the previous 4 years. Stretches of great play, stretches of poor play - not much in between
Pugh has looked better of late - maybe the injury happened earlier than thought
I think you keep you keep Walton as a B/U and draft a OL in the 1st or 2nd. Sign another vet G
C and RG seem to be the "weakest link". A healthy Schwartz made the whole o-line better - but he seems to not stay healthy. Need 2 Gs? Assuming Richburg moves to C (supposedly his "natural" position).