This is Eli's best season since 2011, I just wanted to compare this season with that one based on how Eli passes to individual targets.
2011 SEASON (including playoffs)....
Player ----- Targets ---- Rec ---- Yds ---- Yds/Tgt ----- TD ---- INT ---- Passer Rating
Nicks -------- 176 ------ 104 ---- 1636 --- 9.30 -------- 11 ---- 5 ------- 99.1
Cruz --------- 162 ------ 103 ---- 1805 --- 11.14 ------- 10 ---- 3 ------- 114.4
Manningham --- 99 ------- 52 ----- 712 ---- 7.19 -------- 7 ----- 5 ------- 78.3
Ballard ------ 76 ------- 43 ----- 647 ---- 8.51 -------- 4 ----- 1 ------- 96.8
Bradshaw ----- 65 ------- 50 ----- 381 ---- 5.86 -------- 2 ----- 1 ------- 94.5
Ware --------- 40 ------- 29 ----- 191 ---- 4.78 -------- 0 ----- 2 ------- 61.6 |
2014 SEASON
Player ----- Targets ---- Rec ---- Yds ---- Yds/Tgt ----- TD ---- INT ---- Passer Rating
Randle ----- 111 -------- 63 ----- 764 ---- 6.88 -------- 3 ----- 4 ------ 72.3
Beckham ---- 109 -------- 79 ----- 1120 --- 10.28 ------- 11 ---- 2 ------ 131.3
Donnell ---- 86 --------- 61 ----- 597 ---- 6.94 -------- 6 ----- 3 ------ 98.8
Parker ----- 52 --------- 34 ----- 398 ---- 7.65 -------- 2 ----- 2 ------ 85.3
Cruz ------- 41 --------- 23 ----- 337 ---- 8.22 -------- 1 ----- 2 ------ 70.9
Jennings --- 36 --------- 27 ----- 205 ---- 5.69 -------- 0 ----- 0 ------ 88.3 |
Victor Cruz had a monster 2011 season. He was just a big-play monster that season and he made those big plays at key moments as well. He was awesome. But he had a ton of help. Hakeem Nicks was a beast in 2011 as well, especially when you include his playoff run. His numbers above don't quite match Cruz's, but Nicks was also playing outside and having to deal with more defensive attention than Cruz. Those two played off of each other perfectly and made tons of big plays to help lead us to a SB that season. They also got help from Manningham, who was inconsistent but a major threat deep, and Ballard. I shit on Ballard a lot but his Yards per Target number was pretty damn impressive that year, he made a ton of big plays especially early in the season.
In 2014, the success has been much more ODB-oriented. Randle was a major disappointment this year as the #1 outside WR, even with the nice game against the Rams. In about the same number of targets as Beckham, he has almost 400 less receiving yards. Eli has a 131.3 Rating when he throws towards Beckham, which is just a preposterously high number for a #1 WR.
Donnell has been a solid receiver outside the stupid fumbles and Parker has been a capable #3 WR, but OBJ has been a one-man show this year and the numbers back it up.
Eli has 11 TDs and 2 INT when he throws to Beckham
Eli has 11 TDs and 9 INT when he throws to Randle/Donnell/Parker
Eli had 10 TDs and 3 INT when he threw to Cruz in '11
Eli had 22 TDs and 11 INTs when he threw to Nicks/Mario/Ballard
Beckham's impact has been amazing. He is not only putting up ridiculous numbers like the ones I've posted above, but he's putting up those numbers while being the only real weapon on the field.
Yesterday we saw a Rams team that felt like Beckham was the only real weapon on the Giants and that they needed to whatever it took to shut him down. They played cheap and dirty and gave him double coverage, and Beckham still ended up destroying them. That's what is so special about ODB/OBJ/13, he can still dominate even when he's being targeted by the other team.
With all due respect to Cruz, he kind of proved that he didn't have that level in him. His 2011 season was one for the ages and I'll always be a huge fan of his. But I think we all knew that his ridiculous Big Play style in 2011 wasn't going to always be the norm with him. The big plays were atleast slightly based on luck and Cruz also had a great WR next to him in Nicks who may have been the more important player on the team. Beckham is doing this by his got damn self and he is doing it in a variety of ways. Just the way Beckham is getting this done feels far less related to luck or situation than with Cruz. Beckham is just so complete as a player already.
There's always a chance that this is just a '11 JPP or '11 Cruz type of breakout season, one that the player never repeats again. But this just feels different. Crossing my fingers that this guy stays healthy and keeps on wrecking the league through the rest of Eli's career and then some.
Among guys with 100+ targets this year, these are the WRs with 10+ yards per target...
Odell Beckham
Emmanuel Sanders
TY Hilton
Jordy Nelson
Pretty damn elite company. Guys who play on great offenses with MVP QBs.
The fact that Eli has gotten 10+ yards per target out of Beckham in 2014 and Cruz in 2011 in two completely different offensive schemes goes to show how good Eli is at utilizing his weapons. Pretty damn impressive stuff. Keep improving that OL but let's not ignore the fact that Eli has done damage when handed the right weapons.
Beckham is making a true star impact pretty much everywhere you line him up. That's why it looks impossible to stop the guy. He's even a legitimate Wildcat QB on top of everything else he brings to the table.
I think he did the top receivers on the team. He didnt include all of them so Fells/Washington arent there.
Cruz
Beckham
Cruz
You give props to OBjr for lining up all over the field.
Yet you dismiss Cruz's production because he also lines up at the slot.
It's not easy to play the slot in the killzone, it takes a lot of skill and especially... courage. Its
103 catches and 1805 receiving yards 10 tds. You don't seem to respect his versatility.
But since 2012 you didnt see those long catch and run plays.
In 2011 he was 6th in the NFL with 590 yards.
In 2012 he was 36th in the NFL with 332 yards.
In 2013 he was 78th in the NFL with 264 yards.
2011 was an anomaly.
...
Here's Beckham's Yds per Target vs. the other rookie WRs in the league with 90+ targets...
Beckham ---- 109 ---- 1120 ----- 10.28
Benjamin --- 140 ---- 999 ------ 7.14
Evans ------ 116 ---- 997 ------ 8.59
Watkins ---- 123 ---- 925 ------ 7.52
Landry ----- 103 ---- 703 ------ 6.83
Brown ------ 93 ----- 645 ------ 6.94
Hurns ------ 93 ----- 662 ------ 7.12
Matthews --- 93 ----- 767 ------ 8.25
The efficiency of his destruction has been incredible. He's the #1 Offensive weapon on his team and getting a ton of attention, yet he still gets open at will and makes plays in tight coverage when he's not open.
Evans has flashed beastmode potential, I still think Watkins will be great, Benjamin looks pretty damn good, and there's some great depth behind them led by Matthews and Landry.
But Beckham's on another level.
I'm not DISMISSING Cruz's '11 production because it came from the slot. Dismiss is just the wrong word to use here.
But I just think it's harder to impact defenses from the slot WR position compared to the outside.
Cruz got his, but Nicks made life a hell of a lot easier on him
Beckham got his, despite receiving all the attention from Ds
I love Cruz, but Beckham just has so much more variety to his skillset.
dep026 : 7:58 pm : link : reply
in 2011 was a lot about luck. The one handed catch and run against Seattle, the 70 yard catch and run against Dallas, the 99 yard TD against Jets among other plays are not commonplace in the NFL. Sure he was great and helped us won a SB.
Im glad you brought those plays up.
-Seattle play: Cruz was surrounded by 2 defenders, with a 3rd defender trialling. Eli made a BONEHEAD decision by throwing the pass. Eli was LUCKY it wasn't intercepted.
-Dallas play: was amazing play by Cruz. HE was double covered (a QB should NEVER throw that pass, EVER!!).Eli was LUCKY it wasn't intercepted.
-Jets play: once again Cruz is bracketed by 2 defenders. Cruz makes an amazing play by making the catch then splitting the defenders. Eli was LUCKY it wasn't intercepted.
-Eagles play: Cruz is standing on the goaline with 2 defenders on him and out jumps both of them. Why the fuck is ELI throwing the ball there??? Eli was LUCKY it wasn't intercepted.
Lucky those passes weren't intercepted, horrible decisions by Eli.
2011 - ( New Window )
I don't understand the logic?
Cruz had 5 Rec TDs of 60+ yards in 2011. No one else had 3. And only 7 other receivers had 2 or more TDs of 60+ yards.
Cruz was amazing that season and he is truly an impact player when on the field. But I've just been impressed by Beckham's ability to dominate no matter what the defense dictates.
Quote:
But I just think it's harder to impact defenses from the slot WR position compared to the outside.
I don't understand the logic?
I think true X's like Nicks can influence defensive coverage schemes more than a great inside receiver like Cruz. Just an opinion and obviously inside receivers like Cruz or great TEs like Gronk/Graham can have a big impact from the inside.
Quote:
dep026 : 7:58 pm : link : reply
in 2011 was a lot about luck. The one handed catch and run against Seattle, the 70 yard catch and run against Dallas, the 99 yard TD against Jets among other plays are not commonplace in the NFL. Sure he was great and helped us won a SB.
Im glad you brought those plays up.
-Seattle play: Cruz was surrounded by 2 defenders, with a 3rd defender trialling. Eli made a BONEHEAD decision by throwing the pass. Eli was LUCKY it wasn't intercepted.
-Dallas play: was amazing play by Cruz. HE was double covered (a QB should NEVER throw that pass, EVER!!).Eli was LUCKY it wasn't intercepted.
-Jets play: once again Cruz is bracketed by 2 defenders. Cruz makes an amazing play by making the catch then splitting the defenders. Eli was LUCKY it wasn't intercepted.
-Eagles play: Cruz is standing on the goaline with 2 defenders on him and out jumps both of them. Why the fuck is ELI throwing the ball there??? Eli was LUCKY it wasn't intercepted.
Lucky those passes weren't intercepted, horrible decisions by Eli. 2011 - ( New Window )
What do you want?
You are so fucking dumb, you brought up a play I didnt even mention. Doubled covered in Dallas, you are fucking delusional. Or as Zebra said, just a fucking troll who just shits on Eli.
It doesn't get more basic than that.
Why are you so sensitive?
Eli AND Cruz were money that year. Cruz's 2011 was absolutely unsustainable, and it's clear from Cruz's career that he operates better in the slot and with a solid outside/X WR.
I don't see what is controversial about that in the slightest.
It doesn't get more basic than that.
Why are you so sensitive?
Get lost troll. Some of those plays arent even double covered. You're just a clueless idiot who shits on Eli whenever he can.
In 2011 he was 6th in the NFL with 590 yards.
In 2012 he was 36th in the NFL with 332 yards.
In 2013 he was 78th in the NFL with 264 yards.
2011 was an anomaly.
When diable is presented with facts, he doesnt know how to respond.
Scoping out pictures of teenage girls now huh? We all know you are a fucktard and a moron.... but now a predator? Seems like you have more issues than we first thought.
Quote:
dep026 : 7:58 pm : link : reply
in 2011 was a lot about luck. The one handed catch and run against Seattle, the 70 yard catch and run against Dallas, the 99 yard TD against Jets among other plays are not commonplace in the NFL. Sure he was great and helped us won a SB.
Im glad you brought those plays up.
-Seattle play: Cruz was surrounded by 2 defenders, with a 3rd defender trialling. Eli made a BONEHEAD decision by throwing the pass. Eli was LUCKY it wasn't intercepted.
-Dallas play: was amazing play by Cruz. HE was double covered (a QB should NEVER throw that pass, EVER!!).Eli was LUCKY it wasn't intercepted.
-Jets play: once again Cruz is bracketed by 2 defenders. Cruz makes an amazing play by making the catch then splitting the defenders. Eli was LUCKY it wasn't intercepted.
-Eagles play: Cruz is standing on the goaline with 2 defenders on him and out jumps both of them. Why the fuck is ELI throwing the ball there??? Eli was LUCKY it wasn't intercepted.
Lucky those passes weren't intercepted, horrible decisions by Eli. 2011 - ( New Window )
Diable, The 99 yarder, The Jets were in a zone, Manning had a window between the zones to hit Cruz and he did. As for never throwing to a wr being double covered, well just because a wr is doubled doesn't mean he's covered effectively. You can't just simply ignore your best weapon because he's doubled. You have to make the defense earn their money. Manning has definitely thrown many passes in his career that he shouldn't, but you could argue that a big part of the Giants winning their last two super bowls is because of Manning taking chances. If Manning doesn't throw that ball to Manningham against a cover 2, a ball he probably by definition should not have thrown the Giants very well may have not won XLVI
There fixed it to make sense.. typing on the phone isn't that good.
The throw to Maningham was an amazing play.
But situation dictates otherwise.
1st and 10 on the giant 10
3:43 left
1 time out
only down by 2 points
Nicks was open underneath.
It doesn't get more basic than that.
Why are you so sensitive?
What? Who ever said this?? You mean no QB EVER threw into double coverage? Not Peyton, Brady, Rogers, et al? Sorry but I've got to see something to support this assertion.
If you're criticizing perhaps the greatest pass in SB history, a pass that was in no way lucky or fluke-y, you've jumped the shark. Or, frankly, you deserve Alex Smith and his inate fear of any even minor risk as your QB.
The throw to Maningham was an amazing play.
But situation dictates otherwise.
1st and 10 on the giant 10
3:43 left
1 time out
only down by 2 points
Nicks was open underneath.
Diable you are venturing in unknown territory if Manning throws the ball to Nicks. Maybe Nicks drops the pass, maybe he catches it and fumbles, maybe a DL gets his hands up and bats manning's pass in the air, or maybe even Nicks breaks a couple of tackles and goes the distance. The point is the route the giants took started with the throw and catch to manningham. We know for a fact how that turned out. Football players can play strictly by the X's and O's and sometimes play above them. Example, during the week let's say Manning saw that Chung the safety was cheating over to the middle of the field a bit in his cover 2. Now the X's and O's tell MAnning that he shouldn't throw the ball deep the down the sideline in a cover 2 however because players aren't robots they don't always do their assignments properly or they try to cheat their assignments. But because Chung was cheating to the middle of the field a bit, in fact manning pulled him over there with his eyes allowed MAnning to make that throw.
If a player goes strictly by what the X's and O's say all of the time the defense will start cheating on their assignments because they know you won't even look to attack where the strength of their scheme is.
I know I put a lot of shit in the OP, but one of the main things to take from this post is Elis ability to utilize elite receiving talents. There are a lot of QBs in this league who don't know how to take advantage of a player like '11 Cruz or '14 Beckham.
Eli isn't a game manager like Alex Smith. He makes plays with the game on the line and he's willing to throw 50/50 balls. Some of those decisions have been dumb but most have been amazing. The thing about Beckham is that he makes those 50/50 balls feel 60/40, and his route running makes 50/50 plays unnecessary for the most part because of how open he is.
Your making the assumption that Megatron is doubled all game long. Thats incorrect. No defense can afford to commit 2 defenders to a single player all game long. This isnt madden football.
Throwing into double coverage is exactly what the defense is hoping for. Its a major mistake, not minor one. Not a fan of Alex Smith.
He is just another long line of shitty BBI posters who shit on eli whenever he can.
The discussion was interesting until you showed up. No gives a shit about your jaded opinion.
Everyone knows you're madly in love with Eli and that you're saving your hymen for him.
Now fuckoff bitch!
The discussion was interesting until you showed up. No gives a shit about your jaded opinion.
Everyone knows you're madly in love with Eli and that you're saving your hymen for him.
Now fuckoff bitch!
Listen I proved how much of a moron you are already. I showed actual facts that Cruz 2011 was anomaly.... and you responded by showing teenage girls pictures. You're sick in the head dude.
And Osi conversation has been interesting. Not yours. You have not said a single thing that makes sense and many posters have called out your stupidity.
Feeling lonely on that island? Name calling and posting pictures of teenage girls. You're a sad little man. The less you post, the better.
Facts aren't your strong point. But I doubt you have many to begin with. 11/14 for a reason. Wonder what your original handle you got banned under?
Who fucking elected you queen of the thread?
What a LOSER!
Rob_MTL!!!!
Notice the same posting style?
Rob_MTL : 10/14/2013 10:36 pm : link
What a shocker david disappointed with my 9" penis.
diable : 9:26 pm : link : reply
I didnt call OSI out. There' s zero animosity between OSI and I. We were talking football.
Who fucking elected you queen of the thread?
What a LOSER!
I knew there was something fishy. But the dumbass kept the same posting style as he did before. Good job genius. So before calling anyone else a loser..... you should realize you are already banned in this forum and soon will be banned again. Have a nice holiday, sweetie.
You're the one who has literaly hundreds if not thousands of posts insulting people.
Maybe Eric should ban you?
You're the one who has literaly hundreds if not thousands of posts insulting people.
Maybe Eric should ban you?
How would you know if you only signed up last month?
Can you.imagine BBI without dep?
Maybe we could finally have a grown up conversation about the qb play without dep026 hijacking the thread!
Can you.imagine BBI without dep?
Maybe we could finally have a grown up conversation about the qb play without dep026 hijacking the thread!
This isnt a QB thread. This is more geared to targets WRs. And I didnt bring Eli up whatsoever. You actually did. Have a nice holiday Rob. Cant wait until your next dupe.
For a guy who proclaims to have played the qb position, you NEVER ever discuss following subjects?
Eli footwork his posture his follow through.
His pocket awareness
Passing lanes
Elis progressions
O-line protections
You never give any details about routes. Concept routes. Rb routes.
Defensive coverages???
You bring nothing to the table. Nothing!