after never once calling for his firing over the years, and is now likely backtracking given the recent winning streak. He realizes changes aren't going to be made so now he's going to doubletalk his way into convincing himself he's been right all along.
He tried to cape for TC, twice, both in putting the hire on him then taking it off, and ended up conflicting himself to a point where it's difficult to keep the talking points sraight now.
Its like Francessa really likes TC but then remembers
If we all make the assumption that the Gilbride-McAdoo transition was forced on Coughlin, a potential scenario was that Coughlin gets fired after 2014 and his successor is asked to inherit McAdoo. Besides being a problem in the search for a new coach, it also creates a potential "3 offenses in 3 years" scenario if McAdoo is NOT retained in 2015. There are definitely aspects of McAdoo's hiring that were suboptimal.
However, I think most of that is mitigated by something I believe to be true: barring something cataclysmic the Giants knew Coughlin would be back in 2015 at the start of the 2014 season. I don't think there was ever an edict that the Giants had to make the playoffs or even acheive the Wellington Mara benchmark of being in the mix in week 17.
I do think McAdoo was brought in with an eye towards being Coughlin's successor. If the intent was solely to provide a smooth transition at OC, Mike Sullivan would have made much more sense as the hire.
The time to be a fly on the wall in the Giants' front office was probably very early in 2013...maybe even in the preseason...when it was clear that the team was going to be pretty damn bad. Mara, Tisch, Reese, and Coughlin aren't stupid people nor are they impulsive.
I don't think there is another head coach coach who was groomed for the spot,and it took him 4 years to get there.Just not something you see a lot of teams doing nowadays.
As for Francessa,I didn't hear it so I can't comment too much.He could be flip flopping trying to get people to call in,or deep down he could think Coughlin needs to go.
The question how much and when TC extension is done
McAdoo takes over in 2016. Maybe they give Coughlin a 3 year extension and McAdoo waits until 2017, but that might risk losing him if they do well next year.
Another year like this one next year, with an improved OL, and he's going to be a candidate around the league.
The time to be a fly on the wall in the Giants' front office was probably very early in 2013...maybe even in the preseason...when it was clear that the team was going to be pretty damn bad. Mara, Tisch, Reese, and Coughlin aren't stupid people nor are they impulsive.
If this is the case, why would they put that stupid Superbowl Countdown clock in the locker room?
McAdoo takes over in 2016. Maybe they give Coughlin a 3 year extension and McAdoo waits until 2017, but that might risk losing him if they do well next year.
Another year like this one next year, with an improved OL, and he's going to be a candidate around the league.
I also think this is the plan.
If TC signs a 2 year ext and McAdoo takes over afterwards, that would slate him to take over in 2017 though. If TC were to stay 3 more years, then it would be 2018.
Everything seems to line up right after 2 more years, though.. and I think that's the tentative plan.
After 2 more years, it'll be time for Tom. McAdoo will have 2 more years of experience under his belt and the transition should hopefully be nice and smooth.
So many things can happen in a 2 year span though.. so it's very hard to tell.
But he is also way more knowledgeable than most of the other sports media people in NY.
He certainly did not get where he is because of his good looks or sparkling personality. He also doesn't have a schtick like the Mad Dog. He is where he is because he knows about sports and especially the business side of sports. In fact, he knows way more than anyone who posted on this thread.
RE: Francessa is conceited and often a pompous a-hole
But he is also way more knowledgeable than most of the other sports media people in NY.
He certainly did not get where he is because of his good looks or sparkling personality. He also doesn't have a schtick like the Mad Dog. He is where he is because he knows about sports and especially the business side of sports. In fact, he knows way more than anyone who posted on this thread.
So what's your point?
My point is that when a sports media person says something
that BBI disagrees with, he is suddenly an "idiot," a hypocrite and a know-nothing.
Even if you want Coughlin back and think the Giants would be crazy to get rid of him, why not have the humility to realize you might not be right and that there are people equally informed or even more informed who take the opposite view.
I think people are confusing what he thought the Giants should do with what he expected them to do. He has been saying for the last few weeks, and it predated the winning streak, that he's heard that the front office and owners really like McAdoo and paradoxically, this opinion might mean that Coughlin would be back next year. That's because they did not believe that McAdoo was ready to be a HC next year but would be with another year under his belt. That would buy Coughlin another year.
I think he's a huge Coughlin fan personally but I had the impression - and it's an impression because he never really said Coughlin should go - is that there is going to come a time where they're going to have to let Coughlin go if he doesn't go voluntarily. There's recognition that Coughlin is a superior coach, probably Hall of Fame coach but these guys end up leaving involuntarily of they don't retire, i.e. Landry. He never said now is the time even when the Giants were looking horribly earlier in the year. And, he's not saying now Coughlin should stay now that they're looking better. He was commenting on what he heard from others who might be in the know.
RE: My point is that when a sports media person says something
that BBI disagrees with, he is suddenly an "idiot," a hypocrite and a know-nothing.
Even if you want Coughlin back and think the Giants would be crazy to get rid of him, why not have the humility to realize you might not be right and that there are people equally informed or even more informed who take the opposite view.
Did you actually read the thread? Or do you still think Tomlin was groomed?
If we all make the assumption that the Gilbride-McAdoo transition was forced on Coughlin, a potential scenario was that Coughlin gets fired after 2014 and his successor is asked to inherit McAdoo. Besides being a problem in the search for a new coach, it also creates a potential "3 offenses in 3 years" scenario if McAdoo is NOT retained in 2015. There are definitely aspects of McAdoo's hiring that were suboptimal.
However, I think most of that is mitigated by something I believe to be true: barring something cataclysmic the Giants knew Coughlin would be back in 2015 at the start of the 2014 season. I don't think there was ever an edict that the Giants had to make the playoffs or even acheive the Wellington Mara benchmark of being in the mix in week 17.
I do think McAdoo was brought in with an eye towards being Coughlin's successor. If the intent was solely to provide a smooth transition at OC, Mike Sullivan would have made much more sense as the hire.
The time to be a fly on the wall in the Giants' front office was probably very early in 2013...maybe even in the preseason...when it was clear that the team was going to be pretty damn bad. Mara, Tisch, Reese, and Coughlin aren't stupid people nor are they impulsive.
the one year contract extension for TC indicates his future beyond this season was not nearly as secure as you're making it out to be. If they were in fact sold on TC beyond 2014 then why not extend him 2 or 3 years?
It may appear dysfunctional on the surface but it may actually make
perfect sense. The Giants are very big on continuity when it comes to the coaching staff. They could very well be eyeing McAdoo as the future HC but he is clearly not ready for that role and is still a few years away. Coughlin is still the face of the franchise and there is no reason to move on to him anytime soon, as he has several years of good coaching in him.
In a perfect world, and what I think the Giants vision is for Tom to coach the next 3 seasons before having McAdoo take over in 2018.
Two weeks ago he wasn't ready to jump on the Beckham bandwagon, Beckham was getting too much hype and hasn't shown so much and today he says Beckham is too good to celebrate a TD catch. What a difference two weeks in the NFL makes to him. Francesa can't be taken seriously. He is just entertainment.
but what he is missing is that this ,IMO, was the plan from the begining. Before this year, TC was looking at 2-3 more years. They wanted to revamp the Offense because they needed to protect manning better and take advantage of his strengths - now his intelligence and durability. San Diego and Pitt have done the same thing.
The best case scenario the FO saw, was TC oversaw the rebuild, groomed a POTENTIAL HC, and took one more shot at a run. Leaving the organization in a good place, cemeting his legacy, and providing continuity.
There are many risks. Macadoo might have been bad, Eli might have been done, The team could have quit on TC etc. If that happened, then next year was a blow it up year.
The 2 year plan is on pace, but only halfway there. Eli has bounced back, macadoo has shown promise, and the team kept fighting and improving. There is still a talent issue - which looks to be improving as well.
The Giants need to compete for the playoffs next year, and then the plan goes forward. If not, I think there are contingencies already thought out. Including moving on from TC and Macadoo.
With a good draft the giants should be in the mix for the east next year, and a legit contender the year after. 2 decent shots at another title and a HC in waiting. That is the best case scenario the FO was looking at. I think they got done what they needed to get done this year to continue with that plan.
It could be considered a dysfunctional situation in a certain light, in that if there was a chance TC could get fired and Macadoo. But i think it was never a consideration to do that. If this team was dismal, all would be swept out, and possibly they would let Eli play out his contract with no extension for a new regime.
The Giants bet on Coughlin. I'm ok with that
He's stirring the pot when neither team is in the hunt and there is
nothing more interesting to report than Beckham Brawls.
Sometimes he might get inside info, but I doubt that he has any real knowledge of the inner workings of the Giants' organization. The Giants keep their disagreements to themselves.
And his "ODB was rubbing their nose in it" schtick is annoying.
Someone finally called in and asked if he thought the Rams were justified, and he deflected blame to ODB.
The Rams behavior is a non issue for him. So strange.
He's a Fisher fanboy. He blamed the Giants back in 2010 when they played the Titans and has Fisher on his show any chance he gets. When Fisher was out of the league for a year, he was suppose to do a segment with Francesa.
If we all make the assumption that the Gilbride-McAdoo transition was forced on Coughlin, a potential scenario was that Coughlin gets fired after 2014 and his successor is asked to inherit McAdoo. Besides being a problem in the search for a new coach, it also creates a potential "3 offenses in 3 years" scenario if McAdoo is NOT retained in 2015. There are definitely aspects of McAdoo's hiring that were suboptimal.
However, I think most of that is mitigated by something I believe to be true: barring something cataclysmic the Giants knew Coughlin would be back in 2015 at the start of the 2014 season. I don't think there was ever an edict that the Giants had to make the playoffs or even acheive the Wellington Mara benchmark of being in the mix in week 17.
I do think McAdoo was brought in with an eye towards being Coughlin's successor. If the intent was solely to provide a smooth transition at OC, Mike Sullivan would have made much more sense as the hire.
The time to be a fly on the wall in the Giants' front office was probably very early in 2013...maybe even in the preseason...when it was clear that the team was going to be pretty damn bad. Mara, Tisch, Reese, and Coughlin aren't stupid people nor are they impulsive.
That Welly benchmark was for the month of December, not just week 17 (relevant games in December).
is right if the Giants don't make the playoffs next year. He's wrong if we make the playoffs. I have a feeling next year is TC's last and they're going to hand the keys to the Ferrari to McAdoo in 2016. Keeping with this line of thinking, I believe the Giants are going to spend a ton in the FA market to fill the holes they need to give TC a proper chance to go out on top
Could be offered a HC position this year anything is possible. He has the resume now at GB and NY two teams with storied histories and will only be 38 next. For a rebuilding team he could solve the HC problem for decades while he learns what most believe he will be a HC. If he is offered a HC position what could the Giants do not much, if TC is returning which seems to be the case.
I know the season has in truth been over for sometime, however it seems that JR & TC could be back. The jury seems to still be in favor of Fewell being given the axe. I would like to see a thread for those who are in favor of these guys staying or going. Just so that we can all look back next year and see who side we were on. I would wait until after the season but it's something I think everyone on BBI would like to know then let the future prove our choices as good or bad.
In the end, we're right back where we started. Assume da pope doesn't actually know what he's talking about.
Then it's "Tom was undermined"
Now it's "a dysfunctional situation"
Then he says everyone likes BM (especially Eli), and it's looking like he's the next HC.
How is this a bad thing?
It's like Mike has confused himself.
However, I think most of that is mitigated by something I believe to be true: barring something cataclysmic the Giants knew Coughlin would be back in 2015 at the start of the 2014 season. I don't think there was ever an edict that the Giants had to make the playoffs or even acheive the Wellington Mara benchmark of being in the mix in week 17.
I do think McAdoo was brought in with an eye towards being Coughlin's successor. If the intent was solely to provide a smooth transition at OC, Mike Sullivan would have made much more sense as the hire.
The time to be a fly on the wall in the Giants' front office was probably very early in 2013...maybe even in the preseason...when it was clear that the team was going to be pretty damn bad. Mara, Tisch, Reese, and Coughlin aren't stupid people nor are they impulsive.
It's like Mike has confused himself.
He's mentally checked out, but has no more vacation time till next summer.
Gronk celebrating is okay because it is not directed at anyone and defenders just happen to be in the way.
Oh and Manziel is alright in his book.
That's Francesa for ya.
ohz noz..da coke!!
Gronk celebrating is okay because it is not directed at anyone and defenders just happen to be in the way.
Oh and Manziel is alright in his book.
That's Francesa for ya.
Lol. Also: The Lambeau Leap is fine. "It's tradition"
Quote:
Beckham is now good but he got to cut out celebrations because he's just too good to do it.
Gronk celebrating is okay because it is not directed at anyone and defenders just happen to be in the way.
Oh and Manziel is alright in his book.
That's Francesa for ya.
Lol. Also: The Lambeau Leap is fine. "It's tradition"
Oh yeah, I forgot that one.
As for Francessa,I didn't hear it so I can't comment too much.He could be flip flopping trying to get people to call in,or deep down he could think Coughlin needs to go.
If they want BM to be the next HC, you're gonna have to do it in 2016. TC isn't coaching until he's 75.
You think McAdoo is gonna sit around for 5 years?
Another year like this one next year, with an improved OL, and he's going to be a candidate around the league.
He is gold.
If this is the case, why would they put that stupid Superbowl Countdown clock in the locker room?
They want to keep TC (as many do), the best was to do that is to upgrade the staff around him. Which they did with BM, and hopefully will do at DC.
Another year like this one next year, with an improved OL, and he's going to be a candidate around the league.
I also think this is the plan.
If TC signs a 2 year ext and McAdoo takes over afterwards, that would slate him to take over in 2017 though. If TC were to stay 3 more years, then it would be 2018.
Everything seems to line up right after 2 more years, though.. and I think that's the tentative plan.
After 2 more years, it'll be time for Tom. McAdoo will have 2 more years of experience under his belt and the transition should hopefully be nice and smooth.
So many things can happen in a 2 year span though.. so it's very hard to tell.
I don't know.. I could see a 1 year ext so that he's got 2 left and then just let him coach it out. But we'll see.
Siefert in SF
But it seems like there are a lot more coordinators who were promoted to HC on the same team and failed.
Siefert in SF
But it seems like there are a lot more coordinators who were promoted to HC on the same team and failed.
How was tomlin groomed? Wasn't he hired directly from the Vikings becsuss he did well as defensive coordinator
He certainly did not get where he is because of his good looks or sparkling personality. He also doesn't have a schtick like the Mad Dog. He is where he is because he knows about sports and especially the business side of sports. In fact, he knows way more than anyone who posted on this thread.
He certainly did not get where he is because of his good looks or sparkling personality. He also doesn't have a schtick like the Mad Dog. He is where he is because he knows about sports and especially the business side of sports. In fact, he knows way more than anyone who posted on this thread.
So what's your point?
Even if you want Coughlin back and think the Giants would be crazy to get rid of him, why not have the humility to realize you might not be right and that there are people equally informed or even more informed who take the opposite view.
I think he's a huge Coughlin fan personally but I had the impression - and it's an impression because he never really said Coughlin should go - is that there is going to come a time where they're going to have to let Coughlin go if he doesn't go voluntarily. There's recognition that Coughlin is a superior coach, probably Hall of Fame coach but these guys end up leaving involuntarily of they don't retire, i.e. Landry. He never said now is the time even when the Giants were looking horribly earlier in the year. And, he's not saying now Coughlin should stay now that they're looking better. He was commenting on what he heard from others who might be in the know.
Even if you want Coughlin back and think the Giants would be crazy to get rid of him, why not have the humility to realize you might not be right and that there are people equally informed or even more informed who take the opposite view.
Did you actually read the thread? Or do you still think Tomlin was groomed?
However, I think most of that is mitigated by something I believe to be true: barring something cataclysmic the Giants knew Coughlin would be back in 2015 at the start of the 2014 season. I don't think there was ever an edict that the Giants had to make the playoffs or even acheive the Wellington Mara benchmark of being in the mix in week 17.
I do think McAdoo was brought in with an eye towards being Coughlin's successor. If the intent was solely to provide a smooth transition at OC, Mike Sullivan would have made much more sense as the hire.
The time to be a fly on the wall in the Giants' front office was probably very early in 2013...maybe even in the preseason...when it was clear that the team was going to be pretty damn bad. Mara, Tisch, Reese, and Coughlin aren't stupid people nor are they impulsive.
the one year contract extension for TC indicates his future beyond this season was not nearly as secure as you're making it out to be. If they were in fact sold on TC beyond 2014 then why not extend him 2 or 3 years?
In a perfect world, and what I think the Giants vision is for Tom to coach the next 3 seasons before having McAdoo take over in 2018.
BTW: an English to Franceser translator
http://lingojam.com/Zaunisms - ( New Window )
The best case scenario the FO saw, was TC oversaw the rebuild, groomed a POTENTIAL HC, and took one more shot at a run. Leaving the organization in a good place, cemeting his legacy, and providing continuity.
There are many risks. Macadoo might have been bad, Eli might have been done, The team could have quit on TC etc. If that happened, then next year was a blow it up year.
The 2 year plan is on pace, but only halfway there. Eli has bounced back, macadoo has shown promise, and the team kept fighting and improving. There is still a talent issue - which looks to be improving as well.
The Giants need to compete for the playoffs next year, and then the plan goes forward. If not, I think there are contingencies already thought out. Including moving on from TC and Macadoo.
With a good draft the giants should be in the mix for the east next year, and a legit contender the year after. 2 decent shots at another title and a HC in waiting. That is the best case scenario the FO was looking at. I think they got done what they needed to get done this year to continue with that plan.
It could be considered a dysfunctional situation in a certain light, in that if there was a chance TC could get fired and Macadoo. But i think it was never a consideration to do that. If this team was dismal, all would be swept out, and possibly they would let Eli play out his contract with no extension for a new regime.
The Giants bet on Coughlin. I'm ok with that
Sometimes he might get inside info, but I doubt that he has any real knowledge of the inner workings of the Giants' organization. The Giants keep their disagreements to themselves.
The Rams behavior is a non issue for him. So strange.
Too bad because when he's good he's terrific.
For what it's worth, I thought he showed his conservative streak in today's show.
The Rams behavior is a non issue for him. So strange.
He's a Fisher fanboy. He blamed the Giants back in 2010 when they played the Titans and has Fisher on his show any chance he gets. When Fisher was out of the league for a year, he was suppose to do a segment with Francesa.
However, I think most of that is mitigated by something I believe to be true: barring something cataclysmic the Giants knew Coughlin would be back in 2015 at the start of the 2014 season. I don't think there was ever an edict that the Giants had to make the playoffs or even acheive the Wellington Mara benchmark of being in the mix in week 17.
I do think McAdoo was brought in with an eye towards being Coughlin's successor. If the intent was solely to provide a smooth transition at OC, Mike Sullivan would have made much more sense as the hire.
The time to be a fly on the wall in the Giants' front office was probably very early in 2013...maybe even in the preseason...when it was clear that the team was going to be pretty damn bad. Mara, Tisch, Reese, and Coughlin aren't stupid people nor are they impulsive.
That Welly benchmark was for the month of December, not just week 17 (relevant games in December).
The Rams behavior is a non issue for him. So strange.
HEA YOUAH GO YOU MONGO!
"AH YOUAHZ NAWT ENTUH-TAINED!?!?"