Every week someone posts Eli's stats and inevitably someone comes along to say PFF has Eli ranked 20th, this website has him ranked 15th, he's only 10th in TD's or 12 in this stat or that...I think everyone needs to look at some perspective in his stats.
Eli is currently 9th in TD's, care to guess who is 8th and 7th? Ben R. and Rivers, with Rivers 2 TD's ahead. Brady is 4th and he only has 33, which is 4 more then Eli. The only real seperation is the top three, Peyton, Rogers and Luck.
Yards he's currently 10th and 49 yards seperates him from Tom Brady, who is 8th. Only 174 seprates him from Aaron Rogers who is 6th in the NFL in yards.
Interceptions: A huge improvement over last year and Peyton, Luck and Brees all have more then him and several have the same or one less then him.
I didn't include completion percentage because it becomes a meaning less stat when you see who has the highest percentages and they don't group them by attempts.
Now, consider he has had a bad line, hardly any running game and most of the year one WR.
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I like him better than mid pack, but that's the fact.
The OL stinks.
They can't run the ball. The #1RB has not been available.
ODB missed a huge chunk. Cruz is out for season.
TE situation is still a ?
20 players on IR
Going 30/13/4000...Arrow is pointing up.
I like him better than mid pack, but that's the fact.
People who use still use QB rating as a measure of a QBs play is 25 years behind the times. Any stats that rates Ryan Fitzpatrick better than Eli is just asinine. They rate Palmer ahead of him despite him playing only in 6 games. And if you watch enough games, you can see that guys liek Ryan, Rivers, Wilson, and Brees all have been around the same level as Eli.
Rodgers, Romo, Brady, Ben, Peyton have been the clear top 5 QBs in football this year. After that, Eli can be anywhere from 6-10.
Same as everyone else who posts his stats and tries to draw a conclusion.
I like him better than mid pack, but that's the fact.
If you look at the passing stats, a lot of QB's are having top level seasons. Many stats are separated by only a few units, so to say that Eli is middle of the pack is missing the point.
He's had a very fine season by any measure. 30+ TDs and over 4000 yards with less than an INT per game is great, I could care less where he ranks.
Stats are useful for judging the performance of players you don't see week-in, week-out. I doubt any fan who didn't watch the Giants throughout the 2011 season could possibly imagine how amazing Eli was that year. Stats told only a tiny part of that story.
Stats are useful for judging the performance of players you don't see week-in, week-out. I doubt any fan who didn't watch the Giants throughout the 2011 season could possibly imagine how amazing Eli was that year. Stats told only a tiny part of that story.
Been saying this for years.
Peyton has declined dramatically over the last year and Brees, despite some gaudy passing yards statistics, is in full decline if you've watched any Saints games.
Age is undefeated.
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to put Eli among the top NFL QBS statistically, he's still a middle of the pack QB by passer rating, making top shelf kwan.
I like him better than mid pack, but that's the fact.
People who use still use QB rating as a measure of a QBs play is 25 years behind the times. Any stats that rates Ryan Fitzpatrick better than Eli is just asinine. They rate Palmer ahead of him despite him playing only in 6 games. And if you watch enough games, you can see that guys liek Ryan, Rivers, Wilson, and Brees all have been around the same level as Eli.
Rodgers, Romo, Brady, Ben, Peyton have been the clear top 5 QBs in football this year. After that, Eli can be anywhere from 6-10.
Brees has sucked this year. Fact.
Peyton has declined dramatically over the last year and Brees, despite some gaudy passing yards statistics, is in full decline if you've watched any Saints games.
Age is undefeated.
Yet I assume you watch every Giants game, correct? Have you watched Ryan Fitzpatrick and Alex Smith this year, or any year?
When you watch Eli, do you see Alex Smith and Ryan Fitzpatrick?
Ryan Fitzpatrick was BENCHED for how pathetic he was this year. Yet he has a better QB rating than Eli. What does that tell you about the stat?
I like him better than mid pack, but that's the fact.
How is that middle of the pack and look at what he has had to work with? Did you read where he ranks among his peers?
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In comment 12051009 BlueLou said:
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to put Eli among the top NFL QBS statistically, he's still a middle of the pack QB by passer rating, making top shelf kwan.
I like him better than mid pack, but that's the fact.
People who use still use QB rating as a measure of a QBs play is 25 years behind the times. Any stats that rates Ryan Fitzpatrick better than Eli is just asinine. They rate Palmer ahead of him despite him playing only in 6 games. And if you watch enough games, you can see that guys liek Ryan, Rivers, Wilson, and Brees all have been around the same level as Eli.
Rodgers, Romo, Brady, Ben, Peyton have been the clear top 5 QBs in football this year. After that, Eli can be anywhere from 6-10.
Brees has sucked this year. Fact.
Yet, Brees has 32 TD's to 14 INT's, 4700 yards, and is right under 70% completions.
So I agree, from what I've seen, he hasn't looked good. But once again, not reflected in numbers.
Football knowledge is something he lacks.
Same as everyone else who posts his stats and tries to draw a conclusion.
Well when I read people quote other sites, say he's middle of hte pack, say hes #10 and don't look at who is around him, I call that perspective. You can't diminish him by saying he is 10th or 12th in a category without taking into account who is right around him statistically.
1 Romo 82.3
2 Rodgers 81.2
3 P.Manning 77.4
4 Brady 75.4
5 Roethlisberger 73.5
6 E.Manning 72.7
7 Brees 72.2
8 Ryan 70.0
9 Rivers 69.3
10 Flacco 67.8
This one says that he isn't just a middle of the pack QB.
He has certainly played better as of late, and also still gave us a handful of stinkers throughout the season.
His line was below average but seems to have gotten themselves together recently.
Outside of OBJ, he has not had the most dynamic set of skill players surrounding him, but let's face it... OBJ has been a god-send to him recently as well... so it cuts both ways.
Overall a good season for Eli.
But a losing season... and though the defense takes the lion share of blame, there are a handful of games where Eli's poor play significantly contributed to the loss (Seattle and DAL come to mind immediately, though I suspect there would be others if I researched it more closely).
My point? His stats look pretty good, my eyes tell me he played more good than bad... but he still retains some responsibility for our 2nd losing season in a row. And that has to be considered when judging the overall season.
I think Eli has played great outside of like 3-4 games. but why does BBI become obsessed with stats now that the stats back up the story? stats were irrelevant and INTs were always tipped balls faults the last 4 years?
stats are stupid- watch the game- eli has been fantastic for the most part this year. that is all I really care about. Brees has not been... he has stats though.
Rogers is a machine- we don't need stats to show us that
One INT in both 2007 and 2011 SB runs respectively. Give Eli the proper talent around him and he will win. He is that good...still! No question I would take him over Brady, Peyton, Brees and Rodgers.
He has shown he can accept and flourish in a new offense after 10 years in a completely different offense. He studies relentlessly, always looks to improve and works hard. He is a leader and his team believes in him. Yes, does he do stupid things at times but in a one game for all the marbles...he is the guy I want.
But a losing season... and though the defense takes the lion share of blame, there are a handful of games where Eli's poor play significantly contributed to the loss (Seattle and DAL come to mind immediately, though I suspect there would be others if I researched it more closely).
If you are putting the lion's share of the blame on Eli for the Seattle and 2nd Dallas loss, I really have to question if you know anything about football.
His poor play was an average of over 300 YPG, with 70% percentage. 4 tds and 2 INTs (both on tipped balls).
If thats poor play, we should be undefeated.
I think Eli has played great outside of like 3-4 games. but why does BBI become obsessed with stats now that the stats back up the story? stats were irrelevant and INTs were always tipped balls faults the last 4 years?
stats are stupid- watch the game- eli has been fantastic for the most part this year. that is all I really care about. Brees has not been... he has stats though.
Rogers is a machine- we don't need stats to show us that
My whole point in the thread was pespective by showing how he rates with his peers. That way you can't make the argument..."stats are up everywhere."
And we cant forget OBJ's contribution. I just think for how dominant OBJ has been has risen Eli's confidence and also has given guys like Parker and Randle the ability to make more plays. Parker has been better and Randle had a big catch against Washington and had a fantastic game last week.
Its amazing how 1 dynamite player can affect the whole offense.
But alas, you are not...
But alas, you are not...
And if you could read, I edited my post and pointed out that you said Eli's poor play cost us those two games when in fact they didnt even come close to being the reasons why we lost. So instead of being an ignorant prick, try to learn some things. You dont throw for over 300 yards at 70% with two tipped INTs and play poorly.
Seems like you should watch more games and less ESPN.
And yes, the INT's Eli threw against SEA, DAL (2) and SF all contributed to the outcome in my opinion. One can differ in that opinion, for sure, but they changed the complexion of the game - at least - considering the situation we were in when each was thrown (plus the debacle against SF).
Looks like you are the one who needs to do more than simply look at aggregate stats...
No, you are a the moron. How you are lawyer is hysterical. I still remember the post. We were referencing the ball that HIT OBJ right in the HANDS, and someone commented that the ball was 5 yards underthrown. I stated that its impossible for a ball to be 5 yards underthrown and still hit a WR in the hands.
You came in, clueless as usual, and said WR easily catch balls that are 5 yards short of them. Its physcially impossible for a WR to catch a ball that is 5 yards short of them.
Fucking dipshit.
And yes, the INT's Eli threw against SEA, DAL (2) and SF all contributed to the outcome in my opinion. One can differ in that opinion, for sure, but they changed the complexion of the game - at least - considering the situation we were in when each was thrown (plus the debacle against SF).
Looks like you are the one who needs to do more than simply look at aggregate stats...
Because I know more about the position than you ever will.
First off, Eli had ONE INT against Dallas , not two. But lets not facts get in the way of your argument. He also completed 30 other passes. For 338 yards. He threw 3 TDs (one of which put the Giants ahead with 3:00 to go.) But yeah, one tipped INT led to his "poor play" and led to our loss. Read that over a few times and then laugh to yourself. Because thats what I am doing to you right now.
As far as Seattle. Lets forget the 356 yards rushing the defense gave up. Lets forget the 288 yards passing against one of the best defense in the NFl. Lets forget 66% of the passes he completed. Lets focus one ONE throw. Where OBJ (who might be the best WR in the NFL right now) had 1 on 1 coverage, and he threw it up and gave him a chance to make a play. You know, the same way he did in the first TD against Washington, the one handed catch against Dallas, and many other times where Eli threw it to him. Lets lay blame that Sherman made a great play, followed up by Thomas who made another great play. Let us ignore that the defense gave up a 65 yard TD drive to follow. You are right. That ONE play led directly to a loss.
And yes you can blame Eli for SF, but you didnt mention them in your original post.
If you are going to come and insult me, at least have a clue what you are talking about. Once you realize that 95% of the QBs in this league make at least 1 mistake every game, you will lay less blame on a player and more on the team.
Eli's poor play led us to losses against Dallas and Seattle.... hahahaha. This place is too funny at times.
We need a hero.
And yes, he threw a horrible INT in the game that had he thrown the sure TD instead, we probably win that game.
The SEA INT was a bad decision and bad throw. There were many other reasons we lost that game... starting with the DEF... but that INT at that time didn't help.
It is ok to acknowledge Eli's shortcomings while still recognizing he is a very good QB. Why is that good enough for you?
I was tallying how many games ELi had in a season without throwing an int. Another one was how many games Eli had in a season where he had a passer rating in triple digits.
Eli, this year, had a career high in both. Out of all the stats, the not throwing int one, is important. Maybe that will go a long way to get the Eli Manning INT machine label out.
We need a hero.
There's probably some gilbride/fewell/Coughlin thread you can spew your moronic ideas too.
And yes, he threw a horrible INT in the game that had he thrown the sure TD instead, we probably win that game.
The SEA INT was a bad decision and bad throw. There were many other reasons we lost that game... starting with the DEF... but that INT at that time didn't help.
It is ok to acknowledge Eli's shortcomings while still recognizing he is a very good QB. Why is that good enough for you?
You're changing your tune, which is par for the course. You said his poor plague directly led to losses. Making a mistake in the 3rd quarter has never led directly to a loss in the history of the game. You wanna say his mistake hurt the team. Fine. You wanna say a missed throw could have helped the team. Fine.
But that's not what you initially saod, and when called out on it.... you're backtracking. Eli played well enough to win either game. That's a big difference from his poor play led directly to a losses". And saying eli was a key reason why we had a losing season. Downright laughable and hysterical.
So by that mantra, the reason why the Patriots haven't won a SB in the last 10 year was by the direct play of their QB.
You want to argue the SEA game, fine. But the horrible INT against DAL and the SF debacle were losses where Eli contributed significantly to the outcome.
And AGAIN (and for the last time, because you are unhinged on this topic), I have repeatedly said Eli had a very good season... but you can't ignore the stinkers and the fact is he was the QB for two losing seasons in a row... which needs to be taking into consideration when judging him.
That is what i said above and what I am saying now... no backtracking, you fucking loon.
Now I am done with you. Go pester someone else until you can go home and wack off to your Eli poster.
Sad thing is neither the Dallas game nor Seattle game are example of his play costing us a win. Once you realize that, you may have a clue.
"Hey guys a 3rd quarter INT where the ball was tipped is the reason why Eli significantly contributed to a loss even though we were ahead or tied at the moment when either happened."
Read that for a few seconds. Then realize how you are way over your head in this discussion.
However, remember that INT in the 3rd quarter.... that play was the significant reason why you lost. What kind of apology did you offer up to your teammates?
Can you imagine someone from BBI asking this. I really can. And the sad thing is, they actually believe this shit.
He has had a very good year
You want to argue the SEA game, fine. But the horrible INT against DAL and the SF debacle were losses where Eli contributed significantly to the outcome.
And AGAIN (and for the last time, because you are unhinged on this topic), I have repeatedly said Eli had a very good season... but you can't ignore the stinkers and the fact is he was the QB for two losing seasons in a row... which needs to be taking into consideration when judging him.
Throwing one pick should not count as "significantly contributing" to that Dallas loss. Had it not been for his 3 other TD's, we are never in that game because the defense could not get any pressure on Romo if their lives depended on it. I would realistically say that the SF game is the only game that Eli truly played bad in and was the main culprit for the loss.
He played well enough in Seattle to be in line for a victory had it not been for the horrific defensive performance. The only other game that was questionable was the Detroit game in which our defense could also not get one stop. That was also Eli's first full game under this new system, so we might want to give him a pass for that one especially going up against that front four.
There have been 2 games where Eli cost us a chance to win this year. Detroit and SF. Every other loss we had would have been by a bigger amount if not for him and OBJ.
As for the DAL game, we were in position to take a commanding lead in that game and Eli threw a terrible pick on a sure TD. DAL then marched down the field and scored.
It doesn't mean that Eli didn't do good things that game, or that the DEF doesn't serve a helluva lot of blame too, but that INT changed the complexion of that game and contributed to the outcome.
Not really sure how else to say this - certain people want to focus on part of a sentence or part of a post to fit their agenda... you don't have to agree with me, but nothing pisses me off more than when people flat out mis-represent what I say to make their point.
I like him better than mid pack, but that's the fact.
Or you can look at it as he had to learn a brand new offense after running the same one for 10 years and is still putting up some pretty good numbers. Let's see how he does in this offense NEXT season. I'm expecting a nice jump from even this year...especially with OBJ & Cruz in the lineup. Should be fun to watch.
Especially in football where there are a MILLION factors that go into everything. To me QB rating means very little.
Hill this past week had a high QB rating against the Giants. Did he look all world to anyone in that game?
There have been 2 games where Eli cost us a chance to win this year. Detroit and SF. Every other loss we had would have been by a bigger amount if not for him and OBJ.
Dropped passes during the three fade debacle cost the Giants more than the picks in the niner game.
I may be crazy but in that game, after it was all said and done, Eli had the team right by the endzone and needed one play to be made to take the lead. I think perhaps there is too much focus on INT's. While turnovers are bad they do not tell the whole story.
In essence I think you can argue Eli did not cost the team the Niner game.
We need a hero
Nothing to see here. Just do what the world does to him. Ignore him.
Well this pretty much sums it up.
That's simply not the case.
That INT by Eli in the second Dallas game probably cost the team a TD, but that doesn't mean you can simply add that seven to the final score and say we would have won.
Especially in football where there are a MILLION factors that go into everything. To me QB rating means very little.
Hill this past week had a high QB rating against the Giants. Did he look all world to anyone in that game?
He looks like he should be throwing the football in the street with me on Xmas day........
We need a hero
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thread about 6 down from this one that needs your work. Or maybe I should start by saying the Giants offense is in better hands with McAdoo. At least he can call red zone plays.....
You are so tender. I know you're just defending your brother-in-law (even against those who say he's had a "good" year but not a "super-fantastic , stupendous" year), but lighten up. We all realize that given great protection, a supportive coach, a good running game and an all-world receiver, Eli can have a good game. No need for you to go ballistic.
And Tom Coughlin will thank him for making him a HOF coach. Without Eli, Coughlin is unemployed or retired right now.
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thread about 6 down from this one that needs your work. Or maybe I should start by saying the Giants offense is in better hands with McAdoo. At least he can call red zone plays.....
You are so tender. I know you're just defending your brother-in-law (even against those who say he's had a "good" year but not a "super-fantastic , stupendous" year), but lighten up. We all realize that given great protection, a supportive coach, a good running game and an all-world receiver, Eli can have a good game. No need for you to go ballistic.
You really are a piece of work.
Satisfied? Or do you want that in affidavit form?
Satisfied? Or do you want that in affidavit form?
Satisfied? Or do you want that in affidavit form?
An affidavit would be fine.
Happy Holidays to you and yours.
Lots of problems on this team, but Eli with time + Beckham will make up for other deficiencies (not that the Giants should address those too where possible).