Rolle's durability and leadership can't be overstated. He also plays all over the field. Bit of a down year but the D'Backs were a depleted bunch and Demps and S. Brown did him no favors...
I would look hard to bring him back for a few more years if the numbers work.
The problem with JPP is that there is absolutely no one to replace his productivity. Not sure what the DE market looks like, but who steps in and give you the same run and pass presence?
I would first get clarity on defensive coordinator and then assess how compatible JP is with the guy's defense. Guessing the bar is at around 10 million per...
no problem with that statement. If he's willing to get paid like any 32 YO, on the wrong side of youth, and starting to show the effects of age, then he quite plausibly could be a Giant for another couple of years. If he wants to get paid like those in their prime, the odds diminish, especially if replacements can be found in FA.
Personally, I hope the Giants let JPP walk because if he stays that means Reese has ponied up HUGE money on that contract. With the space created by JPP leaving, I'd bring in Suh.
and he realizes that he's going to be playing on a 2 year contract. I think he'll play for a reasonable amount - maybe $4.5 million per year? I'd do it if we could get him for 2 years ~ $10MM.
"Safety Stevie Brown signed a one year extension worth $2.75 million with the New York Giants on March 11, 2014. Brown received a $1 million in guarantees."
Lets see how he does vs Philly tomorrow. He only needs 8 interceptions to match his career high (and career total btw)...
to see the Giants make a big run at Suh instead of going overboard on JPP. I'm guessing the organization will have the Dallas offensive line on its mind when decisions are made. Hankins and Suh would be the backbone of the entire defense, and would give us a chance to go toe to toe with Frederick and Martin.
Rolle's value goes beyond his stats. He plays up in the box, he plays nickel, hes extremely durable, hes smart, hes a leader. He was really the only one in the secondary this year, DRC has played well but hes been fighting injuries all year. Prince, Mcbride, Thurmond, All missed more then 50% of the season. If they can bring him back for 3yr/10-13 Mil. I'd do it, but thats not my call. We know ownership doesnt overpay. I could see a team coming in and outbiddig the Giants, if thats the case Rolle may be done in NY, I hope not though. If he leaves we will miss him.
Pierre-Paul has 40 sacks over his first 5 seasons. Missing a total of 5 games in those 5 games. so he is averaging 8 sacks of 15 games a year. I'd love to see him back, his hustle is unreal, he chases plays down all over the field, and we know he'll stuff the run. He knocks balls down at the line, causes fumbles and has even picked off a couple of passes. If we let him go, we will not replace him. We may have to overpay to get him back though and we know ownership does not do that..I said to let him walk earlier in the season but that was simply wrong, they should not let him go, worst case scenario tag him and restructure. He is only 25. He will mature and he will continue to develop. Bring him back, bc if he leaves he will be missed.
The top 5 DE's are averaging 13-14M......no doubt JPP's agent will be shooting for the average at least.....
Rolle's left quite a few plays out on the field out there....
What both guys have in their favor is, they are the best at their position on this team....so if you lose them, will the replacement be as good?
Rolle can't expect to make what he was making before....at 32, he might be in the 2-3M range....
JPP said:
"At the end of the day, it’s business, it’s business. Everyone knows that, even the fans know that, my family members know it, and I am going to make the best decision to better me and my family."
So no way is this going to be a team friendly contract,,,,,I think his main obstacle is his health.....he continued to play this season, when he had various nicks and what not...think he does the same once the big contract is signed?
I think this will be out of Reese's hands, because he will test the waters, once the free agency period begins, and he will play any potential Giant offer(they are bound to try and sign him before free agency) against the market....I think the market will be much higher.....we see it happen all the time....
...$16 - 17MM he's looking for. Yeah, right. That's QB money, and we aren't too shabby at DT for the next year. We certainly don't need an expensive headache like Suh.
it sounds like he will be leaving to the highest bidder and that will not be us. Of course his media statements are usually all over the place anyway, so who knows.
harder to do without JPP next season than it will to do without Rolle. It will likely come down to how much guaranteed money he can get on the market. I dont think JPP will get more than a 3 year deal, or he will get a signing bonus that would make it feasible for whoever signs him to cut him after one or two seasons. That might be the Giants. Its a hard hole to fill, might have to pay the price.
JPP could get lazy with a new contract, as players playing hard in a contract year is a big red light.
BUT he has the ability to be a playmaker. Plus would love to see what he does under a new DC and a switch to LE.
Rolle is a leader, and on a D lacking leadership, can we really afford to let him walk?
...$16 - 17MM he's looking for. Yeah, right. That's QB money, and we aren't too shabby at DT for the next year. We certainly don't need an expensive headache like Suh.
If you don't think we can use Suh I don't know what to tell you. Headache or not, if you can get a player of his caliber you do. This isn't CYO football.
...$16 - 17MM he's looking for. Yeah, right. That's QB money, and we aren't too shabby at DT for the next year. We certainly don't need an expensive headache like Suh.
If you don't think we can use Suh I don't know what to tell you. Headache or not, if you can get a player of his caliber you do. This isn't CYO football.
You miss the point. If you're going to pay Suh, you might as well pay JPP less money. Suh is going to command far too much for the Giants to even consider him. This team has so many needs across the board that locking 16-18 million into a DT would do more to hurt the Giants overall performance than help it. Suh is a dominate player, but you don't build franchises around DTs, especially DTs that cost as much as QBs. For what you pay Suh you could fix the OL, find another WR, another LB, and probably sign a DE like Jerry Hughes from Buffalo.
I would like to see JPP stay, but if he is looking for 12-14 million per then I just can't see Reese doing it. Around 10 million would be ideal, but it seems clear JPP is looking to cash in big, and I just don't think the Giants are going to make that kind of commitment to a guy who has great upside but has a tendency to disappear in big spots.
Rolle first - He is a team leader and a solid player. But you don't pay solid players huge chunks of money especially at his age. Also, his play has dipped this year a little. Is he beginning the downside of his career? I'd like to bring him back but only for a deal that allows the team to get out of in two years and protects the team.
JPP - he is 26 but he is not a young 26. He has had back and shoulder problems. He has shown up out of shape. You want to commit long term to someone like that? I don't. I'd also like to see him in another scheme to see if Fewell has hindered him. He is the perfect choice for a franchise tag. The team has cap room, so use the franchise tag and delay this decision for one more year and draft his potential replacement this year if Gregory is sitting there when the Giants pick in the 1st round.
doesn't seem like a sensible use of limited resources to me.
Today the Giants have Hankins and JPP, which gives them a rising star at DT and a very good -- if somewhat disappointing -- player at one DE. That's half your D-line set with young studs. If Bromley is developing as hoped, there's your other DT in 2015.
But at the other DE they have Moore, who has flashed but is very inconsistent, and Wynn, Ayers and Jenkins, none of whom are even above average starters right now. Wynn is developing nicely but it's hard to know how high his celing is.
If JPP signs elsewhere, the Giants will have a hard time replacing him with similar quality at less money in free agency. But they'll have to sign a free agent DE, and the list isn't full of guys that make me say "Gotta see that guy in blue." (See link.)
If they sign Suh, then they'll be loaded at DT with Suh, Hankins, Bromley -- maybe overloaded -- while risking being dangerously thin at DE. 2015 Free Agent Defensive Ends - ( New Window )
Sign Jerry Hughes from Buffalo. A legit pass rusher, 26 years old, high motor big play guy. Should command around 10 mil or slightly less per year.
Sign Devin McCourtney S NE. He will probably sign a deal similar to what Role did 5 years ago.
Take a look at Rey Maualuga or Brandon Spikes, both are 2 down LBs, but they could make Beason expendable or get him to take a pay cut and move him to OLB. A starting trio of Beason, Spikes/Maualuga, and Kennard would be a huge upgrade. Until Beason gets hurt and McClain has to play of course.
I think Reese knows he has a lot to address, has some $ figures in mind, and is not going to put all his eggs in one basket.
doesn't seem like a sensible use of limited resources to me.
Today the Giants have Hankins and JPP, which gives them a rising star at DT and a very good -- if somewhat disappointing -- player at one DE. That's half your D-line set with young studs. If Bromley is developing as hoped, there's your other DT in 2015.
But at the other DE they have Moore, who has flashed but is very inconsistent, and Wynn, Ayers and Jenkins, none of whom are even above average starters right now. Wynn is developing nicely but it's hard to know how high his celing is.
If JPP signs elsewhere, the Giants will have a hard time replacing him with similar quality at less money in free agency. But they'll have to sign a free agent DE, and the list isn't full of guys that make me say "Gotta see that guy in blue." (See link.)
If they sign Suh, then they'll be loaded at DT with Suh, Hankins, Bromley -- maybe overloaded -- while risking being dangerously thin at DE. 2015 Free Agent Defensive Ends - ( New Window )
Good post. I do think Jerry Hughes is really the only other DE in the FA class worth talking about. He has more than proved his ability this year, and he would be cheaper.
and then trade him for high draft picks. We are in full re-building mode and will help the process. JPP with a fat contract scares me. His dedication to improving his game has been questioned.
Let Rolle walk. His skill level is dropping off and while he has good leadership ability I see several young players ready to assume his role in that respect.
I said in the other thread, it sounds like JPP is going to the highest bidder, which is fine. I never fault a player for wanting more money. At times he can be dominant, and right now is probably the best DE in the game against the run. But he has had injury concerns, still has problems with contain, doesn't have the greatest array of pass rush moves, and has racked up a lot of sacks against putrid OLs.
I'd probably let him go, and would not get into a bidding war. There are some good DEs in the draft including Fowler, Dupree, Za'Darius Smith, the kid with the unpronounceable name from UCLA, Eli Harold, and Ray Drew.
JPPs loss can also be mitigated by drafting another mauling DT, like Carl Davis from Iowa. He and Hankins can occupy the guards and tackles, so the DEs get single attention, and the LBs stay clean to rush or cover. He is a much better option than Suh. I'd also pass on Hughes for $10M.
As far as Rolle is concerned, it depends what he wants, but again, it sounds like he and the Giants are going to be too far apart. McCourty might be a good option.
Can we please stop talking about letting JPP go and signing Suh? Â
That will never happen. Suh will get way more than jpp. The giants will do everything in their power to keep JPP. If he decides to test the market and gets a monster contract elsewhere, the giants will sign a mid level d end and draft one in the first or second round.
Is Jerry Hughes the new "flavor of the day" defensive player or Â
Keeping both Rolle and JPP at huge cap hits/contracts is not going to be a good start at the need this team has to turn this defense around whatsoever.
is going to get a couple blow your doors off type of offers.
I could see some bad teams like the Titans/Raiders who are in the process of trying to rebuild and get their defenses back in shape, drop a massive contract that makes no sense for us to even come close to.
If you're worried about a fat happy and paid JPP Â
Then you should never sign a high priced FA ever again. If you don't sign JPP don't sign any FA DE.
JPP has done plenty to warrant the big pay day. Let him walk, fine...but if you think were gonna end up better off spending that money on 1-2 DEs think again. Odds are we will worse.
In a 4-3 scheme, you don't let the pass rusher go Â
and sign the mega-expensive DT, not in a cap league with a $20M cap hit already allocated to the QB, does not compute. That was BMac's point, in essence.
I'm ok with letting Rolle go if he's not willing to compromise. This is a young man's game, and we need to allocate cap space to younger players who figure to be in NYG Blue for the next handful of seasons.
We can make all the excuses you want, but everyone Â
This year, his speed was an issue; next year it will be more of an issue. I wouldn't give him more than a year and then, not a whole lot. He's been a great Giant, but those days are over.
but what kind of job did we do replacing Bennett, Snee, Baas and Boothe and Hill?
Poor, but do you think the resulting W-L record would have been different with that crew and the games that would have been available to actually play?
My point is simple..we have a very solid QB and a dynamic WR. Outside of a few other players with potentially high ceilings (probably Hankins, Pugh and maybe Kennard) we can let everybody else walk and still go 7-9.
Feel free to argue...
I'd love to see Rolle sign on a two year team option Â
is he's all of a sudden loading up his sack totals on weak competition, but isn't able to show up in bigger games against tougher competition and do it consistently throughout the season.
I mean half of his sack total this year has come in the last 3 games against two of the worst teams in the NFL and two of the worst offensive lines.
JPP basically has most of the cards at this point Â
And will most likely be paid a bit more then he is worth because of the lack of anyone to replace him. Our only play is the Franchise tag at this point
NYG never given a non-QB over $8M per year and never gone over $20M guaranteed
they simply do not value an individual player above those amounts and its been proven time and again, w/signings of beatty, cruz, rolle, canty and offer to steve smith. all almost identical contracts. do not see them going that much farther for JPP
At some point they'll need to go past that number Â
this team tick. I don't think we have enough yet, and I don't think it easily sits out in free agency either.
Start finding more dynamic players that are bring it every play (like Beckham and maybe even Kennard) and then we will be playing games in January every season...
JPP comes back at a reasonable price. There were comments about a 6 year deal. It's crazy to me for any team to make a 6 year commitment in this league, except for the QB position. The injury risk is so high.
With the deficit at safety, can we afford not to get Rolle back? His leadership quality (outside of the stupid TD dance with DRC) cannot be overstated. Same thing as with JPP; I'd like to see the Giants negotiate hard for Rolle but not overpay.
But I wouldn't want Rolle back for the league minimum. His kind of leadership the Giants can do without. The team needs leadership that results in players feeling accountable, not players who don't know where the fuck they're supposed to be on a given play because they didn't put in the work during the week. He's just a loudmouth who knows how to work the media.
NYG never given a non-QB over $8M per year and never gone over $20M guaranteed
they simply do not value an individual player above those amounts and its been proven time and again, w/signings of beatty, cruz, rolle, canty and offer to steve smith. all almost identical contracts. do not see them going that much farther for JPP
Then kiss JPP goodbye. It's gonna be a tussle with Prince and no way Beckham gets a second contract.
to hold another player accountable and make sure he prepares properly during the week? These are highly paid professionals that have highly paid coaches that are responsible for that.
RE: Start moving beyond JPP and figuring out what can makes Â
this team tick. I don't think we have enough yet, and I don't think it easily sits out in free agency either.
Start finding more dynamic players that are bring it every play (like Beckham and maybe even Kennard) and then we will be playing games in January every season...
NE can let guys go without overpaying them and come up with replacements who can keep the team rolling. NYG haven't shown that ability.
NYG never given a non-QB over $8M per year and never gone over $20M guaranteed
they simply do not value an individual player above those amounts and its been proven time and again, w/signings of beatty, cruz, rolle, canty and offer to steve smith. all almost identical contracts. do not see them going that much farther for JPP
That is a very interesting data point, but I would think that with the salary cap moving up considerably that the max numbers would move up relative to the salary cap increase. It could also be that the Giants have not had reason to value a player more than that (aside from Eli of course) in recent history. I would think an LT or Strahan type player would get the Giants to move off their standard procedure. Granted JPP is not in their class so the point stands.
I do think if his current play keeps up or dare I say improves, OBJ will break that 8 million per year ceiling we have seen the Giants stick to.
I do not see bringing Rolle back at a reduced salary if you do not think he can play anymore. What good is that? You are trying to get better. Pierre Paul is essential to the defense. Hughes is intriguing but with Wynn and Ayers, I would rather emphasis was placed on a fast backer & a safety with range. Consider the Cowboys: They think their key player on defense this year has been Church. Whoever the DC is next year must not be outfitted with Stevie Brown & Demps. I hold out hope for Taylor but they need more.
Someone brought up Prince, we will need to sign him after next season. He will command big bucks too.
And, we are going to need to re-sign Eli. J
PP, really,really good player, a $100 Million player? That's a tough call...do we spend big bucks on him and lose Prince? Or Eli? I'm not sure I'd do that.
If JPP moves on, how will the team replace him-- (1) by draft, (2) free agency, or (3) current roster? If (1), by draft, it would have to be 1st or 2nd round because 3rd rounders and lower don't seem to play much in the first and second years on the team. If (2), by free agency, can the team obtain a comparable player (at whatever talent level JPP is at) for that much less than JPP? If (3), who is the DE that can play the run as well as JPP? Moore is a bit light, but Ayers might be the guy.
I think both could stay and that wouldn't be surprising Â
First, I don't think anyone will offer Rolle a really big money deal. 3 years, 10m or something like that. He's had his big payday. So, he's signable at a reasonable price.
JPP will get big money but why wouldn't the Giants be the ones likely to give him that. They will have at least 20m in cap space and probably more with a growing cap to look forward to. 5 years, 60m.
Done and done. (Or maybe not but it's certainly doable.)
to hold another player accountable and make sure he prepares properly during the week? These are highly paid professionals that have highly paid coaches that are responsible for that.
Well when people talk of leadership in the locker room, what else does it mean but motivating your teammates to prepare like professionals and be accountable. And if Rolle is a so-called leader on the team and the team is playing like a team that lacks leadership, what does that say about him?
to hold another player accountable and make sure he prepares properly during the week? These are highly paid professionals that have highly paid coaches that are responsible for that.
Well when people talk of leadership in the locker room, what else does it mean but motivating your teammates to prepare like professionals and be accountable. And if Rolle is a so-called leader on the team and the team is playing like a team that lacks leadership, what does that say about him?
And if TC is ultimately responsible for his team performing and the team plays like it has no leadership, what does that say about him?
RE: You can't develop a consistent contender while allowing Â
I think Coughlin shoulders some responsibility as well for the fact that the team has often played like a poorly coached team. And not just this year, but for several years. The biggest argument for keeping Coughlin around is maintaining consistency on offense (the defense is another story). Also, he wins a Super Bowl every four years and we're coming up on year number four in the cycle.
Is that Eli takes a cap friendly contract spread out, we keep Rolle for Vet leadership in def. Backfield and hopefully we don't break bank on JPP. On the other hand we could lose both, but again I would like to see Eli take a lower yearly salary over an extended time.
Eli's going to take a team friendly deal, JPP will accept an extension without testing the free agent waters, or Rolle will take a huge pay cut to stay?
This is a business....players know teams back end deals, to get out from under them.....Eli is not going to give extra money to Reese to get him a better line, because Reese has trouble running the cap and look at what he has spent money on in the past.....JPP is going for his big contract now, with big money up front......and Rolle has pride, and he will not accept anything less than what he thinks he is worth....
What the hell has that guy ever done in an actual NFL game? Oh, right. Nothing.
Cooper Taylor flashed in camp and was looking good. He is big, fast and looks the part in the limited pre-season duty that I watched. The big question with him is can he stay healthy? I thought his injury along with Will Hill's drugs, Thurmond's torn peck and Prince's season ending injury really hurt this defense. I would NOT be shocked if Taylor was starting alongside Brown next year. I want Rolle re-signed but he may go to the highest bidder.
He pretty much came out & said as much on Friday. And that's fine; as he said, it's a business & he needs to do what's best for him. I don't think the Giants should break the bank for him & thus I expect him to be playing elsewhere next fall.
As for Rolle, he also seemed like he wanted to be paid top dollar & I'm not giving him big $. While he seemed more inclined to stay here than JPP, I think he's going to ask for a lot. I'm not sure if he'll get it. I'd be willing to bring him back at a reasonable amount.
is counting on S. Brown and Taylor for significant playing time next year, this defense is in a lot of trouble....
I was a S. Brown fan, but watching the indecision in this guy, I am no longer...
As for Taylor, this team has to stop counting on guys with medical histories....
If Rolle, wants too much(he knows the Giants have no safeties), then this team will be in a similar situation, just like the linebackers....
Agree, they have nearly as big a problem at S as at LB. Even if Rolle comes back he is clearly on the downside. Brown is not an every down player, They had better pray that Behre can play.
is that he plays every week. Our IR needs more bodies on it. We don't need players that show up and play every week. Let him play somewhere else and will find someone with a history of knee injuries who must be ahead on his rehab until training camp begins and guess what he's not ready. Let him we don't need team leaders.
who wants to play in NYC. He could give us doable discount to play here and win a SB. Rather pay him than JPP who may not show up after he gets paid. Think Suh will. He will get top dollar somewhere why not here if he is reasonable
In comment 12055700 SGMen said:
[quote] In comment 12055688 SB said:
Quote:
What the hell has that guy ever done in an actual NFL game? Oh, right. Nothing.
Cooper Taylor flashed in camp and was looking good. He is big, fast and looks the part in the limited pre-season duty that I watched. The big question with him is can he stay healthy? I thought his injury along with Will Hill's drugs, Thurmond's torn peck and Prince's season ending injury really hurt this defense. I would NOT be shocked if Taylor was starting alongside Brown next year. I want Rolle re-signed but he may go to the highest bidder. [/quote
Corey Washington flashed in camp as well. Taylorbhas done nothing.
I would look hard to bring him back for a few more years if the numbers work.
The problem with JPP is that there is absolutely no one to replace his productivity. Not sure what the DE market looks like, but who steps in and give you the same run and pass presence?
I would first get clarity on defensive coordinator and then assess how compatible JP is with the guy's defense. Guessing the bar is at around 10 million per...
Maybe we can get some people still serviceable from the FA trash heap.....
In Reese we trust? We'll see.....
no problem with that statement. If he's willing to get paid like any 32 YO, on the wrong side of youth, and starting to show the effects of age, then he quite plausibly could be a Giant for another couple of years. If he wants to get paid like those in their prime, the odds diminish, especially if replacements can be found in FA.
Lets see how he does vs Philly tomorrow. He only needs 8 interceptions to match his career high (and career total btw)...
Pierre-Paul has 40 sacks over his first 5 seasons. Missing a total of 5 games in those 5 games. so he is averaging 8 sacks of 15 games a year. I'd love to see him back, his hustle is unreal, he chases plays down all over the field, and we know he'll stuff the run. He knocks balls down at the line, causes fumbles and has even picked off a couple of passes. If we let him go, we will not replace him. We may have to overpay to get him back though and we know ownership does not do that..I said to let him walk earlier in the season but that was simply wrong, they should not let him go, worst case scenario tag him and restructure. He is only 25. He will mature and he will continue to develop. Bring him back, bc if he leaves he will be missed.
Rolle's left quite a few plays out on the field out there....
What both guys have in their favor is, they are the best at their position on this team....so if you lose them, will the replacement be as good?
Rolle can't expect to make what he was making before....at 32, he might be in the 2-3M range....
JPP said:
"At the end of the day, it’s business, it’s business. Everyone knows that, even the fans know that, my family members know it, and I am going to make the best decision to better me and my family."
So no way is this going to be a team friendly contract,,,,,I think his main obstacle is his health.....he continued to play this season, when he had various nicks and what not...think he does the same once the big contract is signed?
I think this will be out of Reese's hands, because he will test the waters, once the free agency period begins, and he will play any potential Giant offer(they are bound to try and sign him before free agency) against the market....I think the market will be much higher.....we see it happen all the time....
BUT he has the ability to be a playmaker. Plus would love to see what he does under a new DC and a switch to LE.
Rolle is a leader, and on a D lacking leadership, can we really afford to let him walk?
If you don't think we can use Suh I don't know what to tell you. Headache or not, if you can get a player of his caliber you do. This isn't CYO football.
Quote:
...$16 - 17MM he's looking for. Yeah, right. That's QB money, and we aren't too shabby at DT for the next year. We certainly don't need an expensive headache like Suh.
If you don't think we can use Suh I don't know what to tell you. Headache or not, if you can get a player of his caliber you do. This isn't CYO football.
You miss the point. If you're going to pay Suh, you might as well pay JPP less money. Suh is going to command far too much for the Giants to even consider him. This team has so many needs across the board that locking 16-18 million into a DT would do more to hurt the Giants overall performance than help it. Suh is a dominate player, but you don't build franchises around DTs, especially DTs that cost as much as QBs. For what you pay Suh you could fix the OL, find another WR, another LB, and probably sign a DE like Jerry Hughes from Buffalo.
I would like to see JPP stay, but if he is looking for 12-14 million per then I just can't see Reese doing it. Around 10 million would be ideal, but it seems clear JPP is looking to cash in big, and I just don't think the Giants are going to make that kind of commitment to a guy who has great upside but has a tendency to disappear in big spots.
JPP - he is 26 but he is not a young 26. He has had back and shoulder problems. He has shown up out of shape. You want to commit long term to someone like that? I don't. I'd also like to see him in another scheme to see if Fewell has hindered him. He is the perfect choice for a franchise tag. The team has cap room, so use the franchise tag and delay this decision for one more year and draft his potential replacement this year if Gregory is sitting there when the Giants pick in the 1st round.
Rolle just isn't very good anymore. If he stays it would have to be at severe pay cut.
If JPP is looking for more than $10 million per, I think they have to let him go.
Compounding the problem is that both positions are weak spots on the team.
Today the Giants have Hankins and JPP, which gives them a rising star at DT and a very good -- if somewhat disappointing -- player at one DE. That's half your D-line set with young studs. If Bromley is developing as hoped, there's your other DT in 2015.
But at the other DE they have Moore, who has flashed but is very inconsistent, and Wynn, Ayers and Jenkins, none of whom are even above average starters right now. Wynn is developing nicely but it's hard to know how high his celing is.
If JPP signs elsewhere, the Giants will have a hard time replacing him with similar quality at less money in free agency. But they'll have to sign a free agent DE, and the list isn't full of guys that make me say "Gotta see that guy in blue." (See link.)
If they sign Suh, then they'll be loaded at DT with Suh, Hankins, Bromley -- maybe overloaded -- while risking being dangerously thin at DE.
2015 Free Agent Defensive Ends - ( New Window )
Sign Jerry Hughes from Buffalo. A legit pass rusher, 26 years old, high motor big play guy. Should command around 10 mil or slightly less per year.
Sign Devin McCourtney S NE. He will probably sign a deal similar to what Role did 5 years ago.
Take a look at Rey Maualuga or Brandon Spikes, both are 2 down LBs, but they could make Beason expendable or get him to take a pay cut and move him to OLB. A starting trio of Beason, Spikes/Maualuga, and Kennard would be a huge upgrade. Until Beason gets hurt and McClain has to play of course.
I think Reese knows he has a lot to address, has some $ figures in mind, and is not going to put all his eggs in one basket.
Today the Giants have Hankins and JPP, which gives them a rising star at DT and a very good -- if somewhat disappointing -- player at one DE. That's half your D-line set with young studs. If Bromley is developing as hoped, there's your other DT in 2015.
But at the other DE they have Moore, who has flashed but is very inconsistent, and Wynn, Ayers and Jenkins, none of whom are even above average starters right now. Wynn is developing nicely but it's hard to know how high his celing is.
If JPP signs elsewhere, the Giants will have a hard time replacing him with similar quality at less money in free agency. But they'll have to sign a free agent DE, and the list isn't full of guys that make me say "Gotta see that guy in blue." (See link.)
If they sign Suh, then they'll be loaded at DT with Suh, Hankins, Bromley -- maybe overloaded -- while risking being dangerously thin at DE. 2015 Free Agent Defensive Ends - ( New Window )
Good post. I do think Jerry Hughes is really the only other DE in the FA class worth talking about. He has more than proved his ability this year, and he would be cheaper.
Let Rolle walk. His skill level is dropping off and while he has good leadership ability I see several young players ready to assume his role in that respect.
I'd probably let him go, and would not get into a bidding war. There are some good DEs in the draft including Fowler, Dupree, Za'Darius Smith, the kid with the unpronounceable name from UCLA, Eli Harold, and Ray Drew.
JPPs loss can also be mitigated by drafting another mauling DT, like Carl Davis from Iowa. He and Hankins can occupy the guards and tackles, so the DEs get single attention, and the LBs stay clean to rush or cover. He is a much better option than Suh. I'd also pass on Hughes for $10M.
As far as Rolle is concerned, it depends what he wants, but again, it sounds like he and the Giants are going to be too far apart. McCourty might be a good option.
This site seems to go thru guys that would be cool to have more than a slutty high school cheerleader...
I could see some bad teams like the Titans/Raiders who are in the process of trying to rebuild and get their defenses back in shape, drop a massive contract that makes no sense for us to even come close to.
JPP has done plenty to warrant the big pay day. Let him walk, fine...but if you think were gonna end up better off spending that money on 1-2 DEs think again. Odds are we will worse.
I'm ok with letting Rolle go if he's not willing to compromise. This is a young man's game, and we need to allocate cap space to younger players who figure to be in NYG Blue for the next handful of seasons.
I'd be surprised if they repeating that strategy with the roster as is, that's a huge nut to allocate to a S.
Poor, but do you think the resulting W-L record would have been different with that crew and the games that would have been available to actually play?
My point is simple..we have a very solid QB and a dynamic WR. Outside of a few other players with potentially high ceilings (probably Hankins, Pugh and maybe Kennard) we can let everybody else walk and still go 7-9.
Feel free to argue...
I mean half of his sack total this year has come in the last 3 games against two of the worst teams in the NFL and two of the worst offensive lines.
I think the chances of him staying are very slim.
they simply do not value an individual player above those amounts and its been proven time and again, w/signings of beatty, cruz, rolle, canty and offer to steve smith. all almost identical contracts. do not see them going that much farther for JPP
Start finding more dynamic players that are bring it every play (like Beckham and maybe even Kennard) and then we will be playing games in January every season...
With the deficit at safety, can we afford not to get Rolle back? His leadership quality (outside of the stupid TD dance with DRC) cannot be overstated. Same thing as with JPP; I'd like to see the Giants negotiate hard for Rolle but not overpay.
they simply do not value an individual player above those amounts and its been proven time and again, w/signings of beatty, cruz, rolle, canty and offer to steve smith. all almost identical contracts. do not see them going that much farther for JPP
Then kiss JPP goodbye. It's gonna be a tussle with Prince and no way Beckham gets a second contract.
Start finding more dynamic players that are bring it every play (like Beckham and maybe even Kennard) and then we will be playing games in January every season...
NE can let guys go without overpaying them and come up with replacements who can keep the team rolling. NYG haven't shown that ability.
they simply do not value an individual player above those amounts and its been proven time and again, w/signings of beatty, cruz, rolle, canty and offer to steve smith. all almost identical contracts. do not see them going that much farther for JPP
That is a very interesting data point, but I would think that with the salary cap moving up considerably that the max numbers would move up relative to the salary cap increase. It could also be that the Giants have not had reason to value a player more than that (aside from Eli of course) in recent history. I would think an LT or Strahan type player would get the Giants to move off their standard procedure. Granted JPP is not in their class so the point stands.
I do think if his current play keeps up or dare I say improves, OBJ will break that 8 million per year ceiling we have seen the Giants stick to.
And, we are going to need to re-sign Eli. J
PP, really,really good player, a $100 Million player? That's a tough call...do we spend big bucks on him and lose Prince? Or Eli? I'm not sure I'd do that.
Rolle I can see staying.
JPP will get big money but why wouldn't the Giants be the ones likely to give him that. They will have at least 20m in cap space and probably more with a growing cap to look forward to. 5 years, 60m.
Done and done. (Or maybe not but it's certainly doable.)
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to hold another player accountable and make sure he prepares properly during the week? These are highly paid professionals that have highly paid coaches that are responsible for that.
Well when people talk of leadership in the locker room, what else does it mean but motivating your teammates to prepare like professionals and be accountable. And if Rolle is a so-called leader on the team and the team is playing like a team that lacks leadership, what does that say about him?
And if TC is ultimately responsible for his team performing and the team plays like it has no leadership, what does that say about him?
I agree with this. Can't just keep letting guys walk. Need to build something.
LOL..we will see, but I am willing to bet a case of good beer that he will get 12M+@ year mark offer from us
I'd look into maybe bringing Rolle back,but I don't think the Giants will.He's at that age where they start cutting ties.
the giants always try to extend. tells u something right there
This is a business....players know teams back end deals, to get out from under them.....Eli is not going to give extra money to Reese to get him a better line, because Reese has trouble running the cap and look at what he has spent money on in the past.....JPP is going for his big contract now, with big money up front......and Rolle has pride, and he will not accept anything less than what he thinks he is worth....
As for Rolle, he also seemed like he wanted to be paid top dollar & I'm not giving him big $. While he seemed more inclined to stay here than JPP, I think he's going to ask for a lot. I'm not sure if he'll get it. I'd be willing to bring him back at a reasonable amount.
I was a S. Brown fan, but watching the indecision in this guy, I am no longer...
As for Taylor, this team has to stop counting on guys with medical histories....
If Rolle, wants too much(he knows the Giants have no safeties), then this team will be in a similar situation, just like the linebackers....
I was a S. Brown fan, but watching the indecision in this guy, I am no longer...
As for Taylor, this team has to stop counting on guys with medical histories....
If Rolle, wants too much(he knows the Giants have no safeties), then this team will be in a similar situation, just like the linebackers....
Agree, they have nearly as big a problem at S as at LB. Even if Rolle comes back he is clearly on the downside. Brown is not an every down player, They had better pray that Behre can play.
possibly not early-ish though, dunno what is there
This gave me quite a chuckle this morning.
Thanks so much...
Sadly, he is inconsistent...but he is still young.
[quote] In comment 12055688 SB said:
Quote:
What the hell has that guy ever done in an actual NFL game? Oh, right. Nothing.
Cooper Taylor flashed in camp and was looking good. He is big, fast and looks the part in the limited pre-season duty that I watched. The big question with him is can he stay healthy? I thought his injury along with Will Hill's drugs, Thurmond's torn peck and Prince's season ending injury really hurt this defense. I would NOT be shocked if Taylor was starting alongside Brown next year. I want Rolle re-signed but he may go to the highest bidder. [/quote
Corey Washington flashed in camp as well. Taylorbhas done nothing.
I want JPP back but not at or near Watt money!
Rolle for one more year ok but only at 1.75m or so.