Sign stud FA OL or sign JPP to long term deal..Your choice?

For one, he is known commodity.
For two, we don't have a DE on the roster to replace him. I don't think there will be a #1 pick that could be had to replace him either. We suffered with Kiwi this year and we'd suffer mightily on defense if JPP left.

If Eli is signed to a six year deal as I suspect we'll have plenty of money to sign JPP and a top FA OL. We definitely need an OG that can run block inside.

Beatty-Schwartz-Richburg-UFA-Pugh - if we can get that kind of OL for opening day it will likely be much improved and hopefully will have some depth as well.

I would NOT be shocked if the Giants drafted the best OL they could in rounds 1 AND 2. We are that week and need that much work!

They drafted him and know what they're getting in him, which is one of the best 2 Way DEs in the game. Why even spend a premium pick on a guy, develop them, watch them blossom into a great player, and just let him walk?

If this is an either/or scenario I much rather sign JPP and add the remaining needs to the OL through the draft.

That kid came in and made Dallas strong.

Our perfect world would be a starting OG with our #1 pick and a developmental tackle with round #2. A #2 that could sit behind Beatty and Pugh as a rookie, maybe getting reps on specials or if an injury hits in game.

#3 we get a DE and so forth. We need a lot of help and can't afford to miss with our picks or free agents.

About the best we could hope for would be Bryan Bulaga, but odds are he resigns with the Packers and even if he doesn't, his history of finishing the year on IR scares me. Just as JPP's history of decreased production playing with assorted ailments scares me off of committing too much money to him.

We went through this with Justin Tuck, who despite not missing games with injuries, was reduced to a shell of the man we saw in 2007 and 2008 and only had stretches where we got to see the old Tuck (fortunately one of those stretches occurred during the 2011 playoff run). The Tuck situation was only manageable because he had signed a team-friendly extension during the 2007 season, right before he became a star.

When the season is over, especially if Fewell is fired, we'll learn more about what may happen and the direction of the team's thinking.

I just have this feeling that we won't be seeing many coaching changes outside of possibly Fewell going. His stats, record and goofy sideline smile may have done him in.

He sounds pretty intent on hitting the market, seeing what's around, and letting teams bid on him. In that very likely situation the Giants aren't likely to be the top bidder. While I made th comment about not keeping homegrown players, sometimes they don't give the team much of a choice.

In comment 12055709 j_rud said:

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He sounds pretty intent on hitting the market, seeing what's around, and letting teams bid on him. In that very likely situation the Giants aren't likely to be the top bidder. While I made th comment about not keeping homegrown players, sometimes they don't give the team much of a choice.

You may be right. JPP will take the most money. He just has to remember he has a ring here and if he plays big in NYC there is post career opportunities around here you won't find elsewhere. NY carries weight so we'll see how shrewd of businessman he is. For example, Strahan sort of knew the time was right to retire and enter TV in 2008 after the SB. JPP may be thinking one more big contract AND _____ ??? Hard to say right now but he isn't a TV guy, IMHO.

In comment 12055703 j_rud said:

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They drafted him and know what they're getting in him, which is one of the best 2 Way DEs in the game. Why even spend a premium pick on a guy, develop them, watch them blossom into a great player, and just let him walk? If this is an either/or scenario I much rather sign JPP and add the remaining needs to the OL through the draft.

"One of the best 2 way DE's in the game?" more like the best run stopping DE in the game and a mediocre pass rusher. If they pay more than $8 million a year for this guy they're nuts. I'll bet my bank account this guy starts going 75% once he gets big guaranteed $$$$

In comment 12055703 j_rud said:

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They drafted him and know what they're getting in him, which is one of the best 2 Way DEs in the game. Why even spend a premium pick on a guy, develop them, watch them blossom into a great player, and just let him walk? If this is an either/or scenario I much rather sign JPP and add the remaining needs to the OL through the draft.

"One of the best 2 way DE's in the game?" more like the best run stopping DE in the game and a mediocre pass rusher. If they pay more than $8 million a year for this guy they're nuts. I'll bet my bank account this guy starts going 75% once he gets big guaranteed $$$$

In comment 12055703 j_rud said:

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They drafted him and know what they're getting in him, which is one of the best 2 Way DEs in the game. Why even spend a premium pick on a guy, develop them, watch them blossom into a great player, and just let him walk? If this is an either/or scenario I much rather sign JPP and add the remaining needs to the OL through the draft.

"One of the best 2 way DE's in the game?" more like the best run stopping DE in the game and a mediocre pass rusher. If they pay more than $8 million a year for this guy they're nuts. I'll bet my bank account this guy starts going 75% once he gets big guaranteed $$$$

In comment 12055703 j_rud said:

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They drafted him and know what they're getting in him, which is one of the best 2 Way DEs in the game. Why even spend a premium pick on a guy, develop them, watch them blossom into a great player, and just let him walk? If this is an either/or scenario I much rather sign JPP and add the remaining needs to the OL through the draft.

5x posts. Internet was messed up

He had 1 fantastic year (2011) after which he got fat and wasn't the same force he had been. Since then he has been inconsistent. Yes he is a great run stopping DE but he never has developed pass rushing skills that would make him more effective. His sack totals this year have come over the last few games when he faced weak teams that were playing out the string. He has been motivated to perform so that he can get the highest possible contract next year.

Once he gets the money I think we will see the inconsistency return and, possibly, an even less motivated player. Is this someone you want to invest heavily in? I would like to see the Giants tag and trade him to the highest bidder for draft choices that will accelerate our rebuilding process. 2016 is the year we will start seeing dividends on wise moves we make now.

.

We need that and more if we are to improve next year.

He is not worth top dollar. If he is willing to have a performance based contract that gives him the opportunity to earn top dollar, that is different but we can't guarantee top dollar.

BTW I hope we draft OL in rounds 1 and 2.

2 linebackers, a DT, another DE, possibly 3 safeties, backup corners, 2 stud OLmen, TE, possible WR, RB......and backups, backups, backups.......you need a plan for the future, and JPP, is too much of a risk for the amount of money he wants...

as a good pass rusher? 50 or so? You can say that most of his have come against weaker teams, but that is how numbers sre built. LT's included. If JPP hits the market, he is most likely gone. If that happens, the Giants will then have to prioritize DE. They need help on the o-line, linebacker, safety.

There's no OL in the market as good as he his on the DL. If they can't sign him they should go after Suh.

With Schwartz already paid and coming back strong, Richburg year 2 and Pugh year 3, I think we'll draft another OL in round 1 or 2, resign Jerry for a reasonable price, and move forward with Beatty, Schwartz, Rich, Walton, Jerry, Mosley, Pugh, a high draftee, and a 9th guy like Hermann or a modest cost FA pickup. So the money will be there to sign JPP if no other team wants to drop a bank on him. Maybe Gaines earns a roster spot?

begging, "please make a stop, a sack, anything..." but he came up empty. The Dallas game and the Seahawk second half when they needed someone to step up and make a stop comes to mind. JPP was nowhere to be found.

Big $$$ for JPP? I hope not from the Giants. He IS good, damn good but he isn't a game changer.

Again, who are you replacing him with - there is no FA or draft player who can do what he does. He is 25 years old

C. Dunlap, C. Avril, C. Wake, E. Griffen, M. Johnson, J. Gallete, C. Long are all making over 7.5M per year. He is better than every one of them and younger

All people keep saying is that he is padding sacks against bad OL. What DE is not doing that. He has absolutely dominated 3 games that did not produced any sacks - further proving that all people look at is sack totals.

You resign JPP. The giants can't just keep letting their best young draft picks walk away because of their salary demands. Pay the man and take a Lineman or two in the draft. I would much rather keep Pierre-Paul than sign Iupati.

over a guard every time..

In comment 12055755 Doomster said:

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2 linebackers, a DT, another DE, possibly 3 safeties, backup corners, 2 stud OLmen, TE, possible WR, RB......and backups, backups, backups.......you need a plan for the future, and JPP, is too much of a risk for the amount of money he wants...

I don't think we need 3 safeties unless you think we are letting brown demps and rolle go I think we will keep 1. Also think we will resign bowman or thurmond

In comment 12055702 SGMen said:

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For one, he is known commodity. For two, we don't have a DE on the roster to replace him. I don't think there will be a #1 pick that could be had to replace him either. We suffered with Kiwi this year and we'd suffer mightily on defense if JPP left. If Eli is signed to a six year deal as I suspect we'll have plenty of money to sign JPP and a top FA OL. We definitely need an OG that can run block inside. Beatty-Schwartz-Richburg-UFA-Pugh - if we can get that kind of OL for opening day it will likely be much improved and hopefully will have some depth as well. I would NOT be shocked if the Giants drafted the best OL they could in rounds 1 AND 2. We are that week and need that much work!

more likely we sign a vet fa ol and draft one in top 3 rounds than draft 2 with 1st 2 picks

In comment 12055778 CGiants07 said:

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In comment 12055755 Doomster said: Quote: 2 linebackers, a DT, another DE, possibly 3 safeties, backup corners, 2 stud OLmen, TE, possible WR, RB......and backups, backups, backups.......you need a plan for the future, and JPP, is too much of a risk for the amount of money he wants... I don't think we need 3 safeties unless you think we are letting brown demps and rolle go I think we will keep 1. Also think we will resign bowman or thurmond

We do need safeties. Even if Rolle is resigned. Brown and Demps are backups.

Moore and Ayers can be the DEs and i wouldn't see an issue putting Bromley at DE as a run stopper while a huge DL could wear down an opponents OL.

Giants should try to sign soon to be FA Searcy SS from the Bills. Wave good bye to Brown and Demps and try to resign Rolle to a CAP friendly deal, something like 2 years 7 million.

Let him walk & bank some cap space.He had one good year when others on the line were double teamed.

The Giants will have 20+m minimum for FA and can get JPP and a good OL signed. We don't really need to make up problems we don't have.

You sign the pass rusher.

That said, the truth about JPP is somewhere between the posts of JohnB and stretch, and NYG has to make what appears to be a difficult decision.

It comes down JPP the person/heart/character, and the team knows much more about him than we do. But, his immaturity and slow evolution as a player concern me in terms of handing him a big contract, as does his getting fat and not showing up every week in games.

In comment 12055817 JonC said:

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You sign the pass rusher. his getting fat and not showing up every week in games.

? JPP lost weight coming into this year though he had gained weight after his back surgery. I think his medical condition is what is overlooked. Only the Giants know how his back really is and if he's fully recovered or will always be compromised. It's a big factor.

I know of his medical condition(s), but there's his character and maturity that pro-JPP fans tend to overlook.

In comment 12055832 JonC said:

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I know of his medical condition(s), but there's his character and maturity that pro-JPP fans tend to overlook.

first off he is 25 years old.. I would venture to say that most of us werent very mature at 25... and as facr as his character.. I dont understand how anyone on the waaaaay outside looking in can actually comment on his character..

is NYG historically doesn't overpay and hasn't really gambled on players with questions. I'd wager 5/60, for example, is higher than the value they place on JPP. If he wants market dollars, he's gone.

In comment 12055836 Blue Blood said:

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In comment 12055832 JonC said: Quote: I know of his medical condition(s), but there's his character and maturity that pro-JPP fans tend to overlook. first off he is 25 years old.. I would venture to say that most of us werent very mature at 25... and as facr as his character.. I dont understand how anyone on the waaaaay outside looking in can actually comment on his character..

Read his comments, I hear an immature young man. I watch him play football, I see inconsistency.

If I'm considering paying him big, I'm going to scrutinize. I repeat, NYG knows more of these things than we do.

somewhat ignored since the Beckham explosion on the scene and a couple of competent performances against bad teams. The D still stinks, they have major needs at OL, DL, LB and S. I think alot of people are getting a little carried in thinking that next year will be a great year. They haven't beaten a true contender in 3 years. They have a lot of work to do and I still think it is at least 2016 before they are a playoff team.

In comment 12055805 jpat54 said:

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Let him walk & bank some cap space.He had one good year when others on the line were double teamed.

This is the ridiculousness of some of these comments..

Didnt Hall of Fame All Pro Michael Strahan benefit early in his career..from Bratzke.. and then Osi.. and Kiwi to some degree and then Tuck..

Even the great Lawrence Taylor had Carl Banks and another Hall of Famer Harry Carson with him.. as well as quality players like Leonard Marshall and George Martin..

but we expect JPP to do it ALL with a DC who is widely considered on BBI to be mediocre at best.. with NO help on the other side from Kiwi.. or any of the other DE's and crappy Linebackers..

I wonder if people actually WATCH football or just look at stat sheets and their fantasy football rankings..

In comment 12055816 BillT said:

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The Giants will have 20+m minimum for FA and can get JPP and a good OL signed. We don't really need to make up problems we don't have.

Well ya see Bill, this here type o' question is called a "hypothetical", meaning it's based on an idea or theory (hypothesis...see?!?!) that while possibly not true or unable to occur, may be interesting for discussion sake, to see where people's opinions lie concerning certain ideas. That's what we're here for, discussion. I know, cool, right?

Pay him top dollar for one season IF we think we can contend and if JPP plays well we can revisit this during or after next season. He could be all he will be right now but maybe he's finally getting over his back surgery and is rounding into form. Tough to lose a #1 draft pick who is in his prime and is playing well.

In comment 12055844 Blue Blood said:

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In comment 12055805 jpat54 said: Quote: I wonder if people actually WATCH football or just look at stat sheets and their fantasy football rankings..

You can't possibly still be wondering about that, can you? I'd put the over/under percentage for "stat-based fandom" at a solid 75%, and it's been that way for about 5 or 6 years if not longer.

In comment 12055853 j_rud said:

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In comment 12055816 BillT said: Quote: The Giants will have 20+m minimum for FA and can get JPP and a good OL signed. We don't really need to make up problems we don't have. Well ya see Bill, this here type o' question is called a "hypothetical", meaning it's based on an idea or theory (hypothesis...see?!?!) that while possibly not true or unable to occur, may be interesting for discussion sake, to see where people's opinions lie concerning certain ideas. That's what we're here for, discussion. I know, cool, right?

LOL. Just read this as if Fog Horn Leg Horn said it.

I don't think we need 3 safeties unless you think we are letting brown demps and rolle go I think we will keep 1. Also think we will resign bowman or thurmond......

Brown and Demps are both useless back there.....Rolle looks like he lost a step, and will be a year older....

Bowman can take a hike....let him avoid contact, and miss tackles on another team......Thurmond, I wouldn't mind re-signing....

In comment 12055853 j_rud said:

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In comment 12055816 BillT said: Quote: The Giants will have 20+m minimum for FA and can get JPP and a good OL signed. We don't really need to make up problems we don't have. Well ya see Bill, this here type o' question is called a "hypothetical", meaning it's based on an idea or theory (hypothesis...see?!?!) that while possibly not true or unable to occur, may be interesting for discussion sake, to see where people's opinions lie concerning certain ideas. That's what we're here for, discussion. I know, cool, right?

I'm sure in your self appointeed position as captain of the thread police you'll figure out a way to make it all better. Mabye you can call you mommy.

In comment 12055844 Blue Blood said:

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This is the ridiculousness of some of these comments.. Didnt Hall of Fame All Pro Michael Strahan benefit early in his career..from Bratzke.. and then Osi.. and Kiwi to some degree and then Tuck.. Even the great Lawrence Taylor had Carl Banks and another Hall of Famer Harry Carson with him.. as well as quality players like Leonard Marshall and George Martin.. but we expect JPP to do it ALL with a DC who is widely considered on BBI to be mediocre at best.. with NO help on the other side from Kiwi.. or any of the other DE's and crappy Linebackers.. I wonder if people actually WATCH football or just look at stat sheets and their fantasy football rankings..

Well, Taylor was dominating opponents regardless of who his teammates were. Even in 1983 when the team was 3-12-1 he was causing havoc.

JPP is a confusing player though. No, he isn't dominating while his sack stats spiked against lesser opponents. His run defense is suspect b/c he's been great against some opponents while he continually bites against the pistol. Look at the Seahawks game. Yeah, the linebackers were lost too yet why wasn't JPP just hitting the QB? Could you imagine Taylor passing up an opportunity to hit the QB (ball or not)? Wilson made JPP look foolish while JPP never took advantage of the multiple opportunities to deck him.

With Suh on on the market this becomes interesting IMO. Then again, with close to $70 million in cap space for 2016 even if Eli resigns for $20 million per year, why wouldn't the Giants resign JPP and sign Suh?

with a $20M cap hit allocated to your QB, handing Suh $16M per seems very unlikely.

In comment 12055880 JonC said:

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with a $20M cap hit allocated to your QB, handing Suh $16M per seems very unlikely.

You can't fill a roster of 50 someodd other players on approx $105 more million with draft choices costing a minimum for years and vets like Jenkins commanding so little?

A lot of teams have a lot of cap space. If he hits the market, he's gone.

In FA or the draft. If they cant resign JPP I suspect they will franchise him and wait to seen if other options emerge the following year.

In comment 12055873 BillT said:

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In comment 12055853 j_rud said: Quote: In comment 12055816 BillT said: Quote: The Giants will have 20+m minimum for FA and can get JPP and a good OL signed. We don't really need to make up problems we don't have. Well ya see Bill, this here type o' question is called a "hypothetical", meaning it's based on an idea or theory (hypothesis...see?!?!) that while possibly not true or unable to occur, may be interesting for discussion sake, to see where people's opinions lie concerning certain ideas. That's what we're here for, discussion. I know, cool, right? I'm sure in your self appointeed position as captain of the thread police you'll figure out a way to make it all better. Mabye you can call you mommy.

Who is playing thread policeman, the guy saying what's appropriate for a thread and telling the OP he's " making up problems" or the guy saying "hey, it's all for discussions sake and we *are* here to talk, so have at it"? Interesting take my friend.

I did call my mommy today too BTW, I check in pretty regularly. Shes doing good, just adores the (admittedly cliched) calendar featuring her granddaughter we got her for Christmas, and thinks you're being an obtuse douche.