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Not that much progress was made this year

Essex : 12/28/2014 5:30 pm
That is my honest opinion besides getting a superstar receiver.

Last year, we were 7-9, beating a collection of stiffs at qb. This year. We were 6-10, beating stiffs at qb except Matt Ryan. Our offense looked slightly more functional, but our defense took major strides back.

, Beckham papers over a lot of the cracks that our offense has and continues to show. Today, at times ,we were just chucking the ball into double and triple coverage.

At best, this year was slight progress. Not enough to make me want to keep anyone from the current regime.
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Riggies  
Essex : 12/28/2014 6:07 pm : link
Every year you can't replace the coordinator and say the head man isn't responsible for the bottom line. Three years in a row the bottom line has been bad.
RE: What about defense?  
mdc1 : 12/28/2014 6:07 pm : link
In comment 12057945 Essex said:
Quote:
What about wins?

It is called a bottom line and the bottom line here for three years has stunk.


more troubling is our performance in our own division. Realize we did not even split with our division opponents, except sweeping the skins. We are in serious loser territory now and the question becomes how far behind we are on the talent and coaching. Winning and beating your division opponents are kind of a given.
nobody knows for sure what direction management takes  
Dave in N.Westchester : 12/28/2014 6:12 pm : link
but it's a safe bet ownership can't be happy with the defense performance, especially with the heritage of defense this organization has.
We have definitely fallen behind the cowboys significantly  
Essex : 12/28/2014 6:12 pm : link
We need to catch the Eagles or we will be in bad shape for the next three or four years. You can't finish third in your division and expect to make the playoffs often(I know we did it in 06 but it is rare for three teams to make it).
So we've sunk to fabricating silver linings two years in a row.  
BigGame : 12/28/2014 6:15 pm : link
It's good for the management that the fans have this kind of expectations.

Now that the euphoria over the previous 3 games is over, why don't we find the positives from this game?

We can root for the team however we want, unfortunately I just see more of the same next year, unless you think the progress we made from '13 to this year truly qualifies as progress.
RE: So we've sunk to fabricating silver linings two years in a row.  
Britt in VA : 12/28/2014 6:17 pm : link
In comment 12057978 BigGame said:
Quote:
It's good for the management that the fans have this kind of expectations.

Now that the euphoria over the previous 3 games is over, why don't we find the positives from this game?

We can root for the team however we want, unfortunately I just see more of the same next year, unless you think the progress we made from '13 to this year truly qualifies as progress.


Then I guess you can take a year off next year since you already know the results, then.
If you dont like the play calling you are lost  
hitdog42 : 12/28/2014 6:27 pm : link
we have the best red zone offense in my viewing tenure- which is 25 years. that is a result of play calling.
we have no interior line or RT push to run the ball. what do you expect.
RE: Riggies  
jeff57 : 12/28/2014 6:29 pm : link
In comment 12057954 Essex said:
Quote:
Every year you can't replace the coordinator and say the head man isn't responsible for the bottom line. Three years in a row the bottom line has been bad.


Bottom line? You can't judge these things by wins and losses. Just keep saying to yourself, we're making progress. And everything will be alright.

And if we should have another losing season next year, as long as we make progress on defense there will be no need to change the coach or the GM.
the defense made no progress  
hitdog42 : 12/28/2014 6:32 pm : link
the ST made little progress.
the offense made a lot of progress.

the first 2 are a bad theme for some time... so the thread title is fine for that aspect... and that is why those coaches need to be sent packing

but where change was made... progress was made. that is a good thing despite the season still being a failure.
until we decide who wins the odd structuring of Reese and TC  
mdc1 : 12/28/2014 6:33 pm : link
the results will likely be the same. Makes you wonder if this GM and HC are the right combination given the really bad things we see on talent AND coaching.
Giants got better  
Hammer : 12/28/2014 6:35 pm : link
On the offensive line, at wide out, in the secondary, and at offensive coordinator.

This is a two year rebuilding project, at least. Year one is over, year two is next.

I'm optimistic about next year.
RE: until we decide who wins the odd structuring of Reese and TC  
Giantology : 12/28/2014 6:37 pm : link
In comment 12058028 mdc1 said:
Quote:
the results will likely be the same. Makes you wonder if this GM and HC are the right combination given the really bad things we see on talent AND coaching.


right, it's like will we ever win a Super Bowl with this combination?
Progress  
stretch234 : 12/28/2014 6:41 pm : link
1st year offense that shows great promise

QB who has shown he can be tremendous in said offense

Rookies who contributed including star WR, OL, RB and LB

The OL was light years better in pass protection

This team was blown out regularly in 2013 and outside of SF game, was in games. They still lost, but were in them

We will say it again next year, but health is important.



We havent beaten a winning team with a quality QB  
Blue Blood : 12/28/2014 6:43 pm : link
in almost two years...
A new offensive system was implemented and the QB  
Headhunter : 12/28/2014 6:47 pm : link
was more comfortable with it as the season went on. Next season he should feel really on top of it. The Defense needs Linebackers. DB's if they come back healthy are fine although a Safety would be nice. They do not have more than 1 Linebacker I would keep and that is Kennard. The Dline if they resign JPP is OK but the lB's are the Achilles Heel on this team
RE: We havent beaten a winning team with a quality QB  
dep026 : 12/28/2014 6:48 pm : link
In comment 12058060 Blue Blood said:
Quote:
in almost two years...


Stafford? Ryan?
RE: RE: We havent beaten a winning team with a quality QB  
mdc1 : 12/28/2014 6:53 pm : link
In comment 12058081 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 12058060 Blue Blood said:


Quote:


in almost two years...



Stafford? Ryan?


suddenly our record improved to 7-9 in one thread response. Golden.
Ryan doesn't have a winning record  
Essex : 12/28/2014 6:54 pm : link
Stafford might have last year, but the point , which was not mine, remains the same.
RE: RE: RE: We havent beaten a winning team with a quality QB  
Essex : 12/28/2014 6:54 pm : link
In comment 12058090 mdc1 said:
Quote:
In comment 12058081 dep026 said:


Quote:


In comment 12058060 Blue Blood said:


Quote:


in almost two years...



Stafford? Ryan?



suddenly our record improved to 7-9 in one thread response. Golden.


He is talking about last year with stafford I presume
I thought statistics  
Headhunter : 12/28/2014 6:58 pm : link
were for losers?
Actually it was a good season considering a work in progress  
micky : 12/28/2014 7:04 pm : link
proud they finished strong. Lot more rebuilding.
Eli is the most important player on the team.  
arcarsenal : 12/28/2014 7:15 pm : link
To go from a year where he led the league in picks (27) and threw far more of those than TD's (18) and also have a year where his completion percentage was the lowest of his career to a year where he threw 30 TD passes to just 14 picks, completed a career high % of his passes and threw for close to 4,500 yards is a huge, huge sign of progress.

Yes, the defense sucked this year and a change needs to be made there. But this offense was legitimately inept last season. To the point where we simply were just not even competitive in most of the games we played. They made a big turnaround this year and will continue to improve.

Offensively, there is a lot to be optimistic about. If we can improve the OL more in the offseason, they have a chance to be a pretty good unit next year.
I'm watching the Rams play the Seahawks in Seattle  
Headhunter : 12/28/2014 7:18 pm : link
either the Rams took the day off or the Giants Offense is pretty good
BS - the Giants got better  
Peter from CT : 12/28/2014 7:18 pm : link
not good enough, but a lot better. The young players on the team show that we can make even greater strides next year.
RE: interesting thing  
mrvax : 12/28/2014 7:20 pm : link
In comment 12057925 mdc1 said:
Quote:
Looks like the Eagles did a good job on Beckham today considering their talent level in the back.


Actually, the Eagles tried very hard to shut down Beckham and the results speak for themselves.

I fully expect other teams to try the same next year making stars out of Victor Cruz & Reuben Randle.
I agree with the OP. Very little progress made this season.  
Red Dog : 12/28/2014 7:41 pm : link
Offense is slightly better due to Beckham and really nothing else. The OL isn't any better at all. They still can't run block effectively, and they still allow too much pressure on passing downs. The TEs really aren't any better, either. Any apparent TE progress is mostly from plays early in the season when the opponents weren't worrying about them. The RBs aren't any better either. In fact, maybe worse.

The Defense has sunk to a new low. The DL is just OK, the LBs still stink to high heaven, the best CBs are mostly on IR, and the Safeties were worse than last season. No apparent progress was made on reducing the communications issues, either. Major changes are needed all over the D.

Special teams continue to stink to high heaven. Gave up a punt block for a TD, a FG block, a deflected punt that got the punter hurt, a couple of TD returns, and didn't do squat in the return game. They had only a successful on side kick and very good overall placement (PAT & FG) success to balance it out. Quinn needs to be replaced by a competent ST coach and they need to get some players on Specials who can actually play. For instance, this means dumping Demps who was the personal protector on both the deflected and the blocked punt plays.

The overall team record was slightly worse than last year because they didn't have as many patsy QBs to beat up on as in 2013.

It remains obvious that the GIANTS can't complete effectively with the better teams in the league, and can't even consistently beat the also rans.

This team needs a total housecleaning starting with the front office.
RE: I'm watching the Rams play the Seahawks in Seattle  
Essex : 12/28/2014 7:43 pm : link
In comment 12058168 Headhunter said:
Quote:
either the Rams took the day off or the Giants Offense is pretty good


Seattle doesn't win with their offense. Seattle beat them how Seattle wins their games, enough offense with a stifling defense
So what are you saying?  
Headhunter : 12/28/2014 7:45 pm : link
.
One thing has nothing to with the other  
Essex : 12/28/2014 8:00 pm : link
. . .
Giants sucked this year  
oipolloi : 12/28/2014 8:02 pm : link
The emergence of OBJ was the only real positive.

without him, they might have finished 1-10 in their last 11 games

that's unbelievably awful when you have a franchise QB
I couldn't disagree more  
steve in ky : 12/28/2014 8:09 pm : link
They successfully replaced their long time OC with a new OC who proceeded to install an entire new offense. That alone would be progress because in the NFL that it isn't always so easily done.

The drafting and successful first season of Odell is huge progress for the team moving forward.

Take that even further and the contributions of so many young players is successful progress.

Personally I was never worried about Eli, but for many his "rebound" has to be considered as progress this season.

I don't understand how any fan who watches the Giants could feel there was no progress made.
Oh  
Headhunter : 12/28/2014 8:13 pm : link
.
So we killed the Rams  
Headhunter : 12/28/2014 8:17 pm : link
and it means nothing because Seattle has a great defense and they don't really need to score
RE: I couldn't disagree more  
Essex : 12/28/2014 8:18 pm : link
In comment 12058347 steve in ky said:
Quote:
They successfully replaced their long time OC with a new OC who proceeded to install an entire new offense. That alone would be progress because in the NFL that it isn't always so easily done.

The drafting and successful first season of Odell is huge progress for the team moving forward.

Take that even further and the contributions of so many young players is successful progress.

Personally I was never worried about Eli, but for many his "rebound" has to be considered as progress this season.

I don't understand how any fan who watches the Giants could feel there was no progress made.

I guess you turned off the tv when the defense came on the field or forgot that in order to win, we need to stop others from scoring. Or that we were 6-10, and the only win we had versus a team with a winning record was the mighty Texans. And, also, I said we didn't make "much" progress.
Yeah last year we had an offense  
Headhunter : 12/28/2014 8:20 pm : link
that could gain 500 yards a game, wait a second, no we didn't, never mind
RE: So we killed the Rams  
Essex : 12/28/2014 8:23 pm : link
In comment 12058371 Headhunter said:
Quote:
and it means nothing because Seattle has a great defense and they don't really need to score

No, the Rams are a 6-10 team. Don't expect me to do cartwheels because we won that game. However, in a post In this thread, I mentioned it was one of our better wins.

My point is, I don't see enough progress with this staff to justify yet another year. Most people here want to fire 2/3rds of TCs coordinators but still want to keep him. To me, that is insanity. Think about that, 2/3rds of the operation is doing a poor job, we have been bad for three years and we want to just act like we made significant progress because a superstar was found. IMO, a new coaching staff could also target Beckham 21 times , as we did today.
Look  
Headhunter : 12/28/2014 8:26 pm : link
the reality is you don't give 2 shits what I think and I certainly don't give a rat's patooey what anyone else thinks. We get to see our meaningless opinions in print and come away from it none the wiser.
RE: Yeah last year we had an offense  
Essex : 12/28/2014 8:28 pm : link
In comment 12058386 Headhunter said:
Quote:
that could gain 500 yards a game, wait a second, no we didn't, never mind


The other team had 34 and we had 26.
RE: RE: I couldn't disagree more  
steve in ky : 12/28/2014 8:29 pm : link
In comment 12058379 Essex said:
Quote:
In comment 12058347 steve in ky said:


Quote:


They successfully replaced their long time OC with a new OC who proceeded to install an entire new offense. That alone would be progress because in the NFL that it isn't always so easily done.

The drafting and successful first season of Odell is huge progress for the team moving forward.

Take that even further and the contributions of so many young players is successful progress.

Personally I was never worried about Eli, but for many his "rebound" has to be considered as progress this season.

I don't understand how any fan who watches the Giants could feel there was no progress made.


I guess you turned off the tv when the defense came on the field or forgot that in order to win, we need to stop others from scoring. Or that we were 6-10, and the only win we had versus a team with a winning record was the mighty Texans. And, also, I said we didn't make "much" progress.


Yes the defense still needs some work, and the team obviously is not a finished product but what does that have to do with any of the progress that has been made? Can you really not separate the two?


RE: Look  
Essex : 12/28/2014 8:29 pm : link
In comment 12058408 Headhunter said:
Quote:
the reality is you don't give 2 shits what I think and I certainly don't give a rat's patooey what anyone else thinks. We get to see our meaningless opinions in print and come away from it none the wiser.


I don't mind having civil conversations with other giants fans. I just hate the I know more than you garbage (not that you were engaging in it). If I didn't care what other people thought I wouldn't be here
RE: RE: RE: I couldn't disagree more  
Essex : 12/28/2014 8:31 pm : link
In comment 12058415 steve in ky said:
Quote:
In comment 12058379 Essex said:


Quote:


In comment 12058347 steve in ky said:


Quote:


They successfully replaced their long time OC with a new OC who proceeded to install an entire new offense. That alone would be progress because in the NFL that it isn't always so easily done.

The drafting and successful first season of Odell is huge progress for the team moving forward.

Take that even further and the contributions of so many young players is successful progress.

Personally I was never worried about Eli, but for many his "rebound" has to be considered as progress this season.

I don't understand how any fan who watches the Giants could feel there was no progress made.


I guess you turned off the tv when the defense came on the field or forgot that in order to win, we need to stop others from scoring. Or that we were 6-10, and the only win we had versus a team with a winning record was the mighty Texans. And, also, I said we didn't make "much" progress.



Yes the defense still needs some work, and the team obviously is not a finished product but what does that have to do with any of the progress that has been made? Can you really not separate the two?



No, I can't because both contribute to the final result of the game. A step forward on offense, with a step back on defense is not progress.
I think what you are really describing is that they haven't yet  
steve in ky : 12/28/2014 8:36 pm : link
completed turning the team around and that I will give you, but to be blind to the progress that has been made this season makes little sense to me when based solely on the fact that they are still a work in progress.
But it also ignores we were 8th last year on defense  
Essex : 12/28/2014 8:43 pm : link
And we invested heavily in offseason on defense and it went to one of the worst in league

That is the opposite of progress

We invested heavily  
BigBlueCane : 12/28/2014 8:46 pm : link
in the Secondary not so much in the front 7. Therein lies the problem.
You are just pointing out that they are still a work in progress  
steve in ky : 12/28/2014 8:48 pm : link
but still ignoring the obvious progress that has been made.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree if you don't view the things I pointed out in my first post as progress.

I don't understand the thought process of all or nothing when speaking of progress having been made.
How much progress did we make?  
Ira : 12/28/2014 8:55 pm : link
On the offensive line, we drafted our future starting center (Richburg), signed two backups (Jerry and Walton) and hopefully added a starting guard in Schwartz.
At wr, we drafted one of the best in the league (Beckham).
At rb, it's a question. I think Jensen, Williams and Darkwa will be ok, once we get more power in the line and te.

At de, Wynn should be at least a good backup. Ayers looks like a keeper.
At linebacker, Kennard will be a decent starter.
At corner, DRC is the real deal if he can stay healthy.
At safety, we regressed.
Who is Jensen?  
Headhunter : 12/28/2014 8:57 pm : link
.
John Jerry  
Headhunter : 12/28/2014 9:00 pm : link
really came on the last 3 weeks
Key Offseason Moves  
Ron From NYC : 12/29/2014 6:55 am : link
- Protect McAdoo at all costs. He did a good job this year all things considered. If we need to make him the HC now to keep him, we need to do it. If we lose him, our offense is back to square one.
- Extend Eli, opens up cap room and provides stability at QB for the next 3 years or so. He's earned it.
- Hire a "big time" DC and fix the D. Only real keepers are Prince, Hankins, Kennard, JPP, maybe DRC. We really need safeties, draft one high and bring in a good FA.
- JPP needs to come back, don't think we have a choice. Franchise him if need be.
- More OL, we need another OT and OG at a minimum.
...  
SanFranGiantsFan : 12/29/2014 7:00 am : link
Offense made a ton of progress. Defense is a mess. Special teams is still a mess.

Fewell & Quinn need to go.
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