Not that much progress was made this year

the offense is LEAPS AND BOUNDS better. Eli looks much much better. OBJ is a stud. Cruz will only add to the fun. Williams/Jennings were better than anythign we had.

Tweak a few things and the offense will only improve.

We installed a brand new offense with a first year offensive coordinator. If you don't see the progress in a completely new offensive system, not sure what to tell you bruh

But it is not close to a top 10 offense. People are confusing functional and efficient. Our offense is not that efficient and the play calling is mind boggling bad. Eli was never a problem, he had a bad year with a bad offensive line.

Was the bad year just to avoid confusion

In comment 12057845 Essex said:

Quote:

But it is not close to a top 10 offense. People are confusing functional and efficient. Our offense is not that efficient and the play calling is mind boggling bad. Eli was never a problem, he had a bad year with a bad offensive line.

You're right, not even close, at #12 out of 32.

In comment 12057833 dep026 said:

Quote:

the offense is LEAPS AND BOUNDS better. Eli looks much much better. OBJ is a stud. Cruz will only add to the fun. Williams/Jennings were better than anythign we had. Tweak a few things and the offense will only improve.

This.

Offense is wau way better, clearly the best unit on the team.

Giants need to field a real D and improve the online akd they can make some noise next year.

Most offenses that have a qb are functional.

Our offense was better, it could not get worse. But, like today, it always came up short against better offensive teams.

Zero progress on defense. Little progress on special teams. (Special teams weren't terrible, but they weren't very good, either.)

I think they took big steps toward "fixing" the offense this year but if they don't fix the D next year it'll be another losing season.

I'm not necessarily high on the prospects of success going forward, but last year's team was a 3-13, should-have-been-picking-in-at-least-the-top-five team that lucked into a stretch of wins they had no business picking up that also massively inflated what the perception of the defense was. They were a brutally awful, painfully dreadful team.

This year's bunch is probably what it ended up being. The defense wasn't good and maybe took a step back, but not as big of a one as some will claim and the offense went from arguably being the worst in the entire NFL to being an average to slightly above average unit and their badly broken QB was largely fixed and set back on the right path -- that actually is significant progress.

In comment 12057845 Essex said:

Quote:

But it is not close to a top 10 offense. People are confusing functional and efficient. Our offense is not that efficient and the play calling is mind boggling bad. Eli was never a problem, he had a bad year with a bad offensive line.

The offensive line wasn't good this season either... that excuse goes out the window. The QB played infinitely better than last season and had his best year since he carried them to the Super Bowl.

beating us. The passing game showed some signs of life thanks to Eli and company but the defense and running game still suck. I'd say we're below average at every single position group aside from QB, WR, and CB.

You were expecting a Top 10 offense in McAdoo's first year, with an OL that still needs help, a WR corp. that was down one of its better players for most of the season, etc. ?

It's not like this offense can't get more efficient next year.

for a lot of the stink this team was this year. Giants were great at beating the Little Sisters of the Poor again...The big boys - not so much.

1-8 this year. That's what I call progress, baby.

...

.

In comment 12057874 jeff57 said:

Quote:

1-8 this year. That's what I call progress, baby.

They beat the Eagles with Barkley playing most of the game and the Packers with Tolzien instead of Rodgers.

Let's not leave out those details when bringing up the "glory" of 2013.

As I said, the offense was more functional, but if you watched it, it was a great offense. We had a special player on offense rejuvenate it somewhat, but we are a 6-10 team and deserve to be one. We couldn't keep up with teams that have bad defenses, like the cowboys and eagles, to name a few. We got shut down by the Jags in the second half. Couldn't score a point to beat a 3 win team.

In comment 12057874 jeff57 said:

Quote:

1-8 this year. That's what I call progress, baby.

The final score of those games does not measure progress. Progress is more than wins & losses... it's development, it's learning to work within a new system, getting young players adjusted, etc.

.

In comment 12057891 Essex said:

Quote:

As I said, the offense was more functional, but if you watched it, it was a great offense. We had a special player on offense rejuvenate it somewhat, but we are a 6-10 team and deserve to be one. We couldn't keep up with teams that have bad defenses, like the cowboys and eagles, to name a few. We got shut down by the Jags in the second half. Couldn't score a point to beat a 3 win team.

So because we aren't a great offense, we didn't make much progress?

Some of you guys should've seriously adjusted your expectations with this season.

they both sucked for the most part, but I think it's obvious we were better this year.

This year's Offensive improvement was nice to see, and there's still a ton of room for growth. Our OL is weak, our running game is weak, our receiving corps is ok outside Beckham. And we were still an above-average O this year.

That's pretty amazing considering where this O was last year.

The D took a step back. We still have a lot of work to do on that end.

In comment 12057898 jeff57 said:

Quote:

.

Way to comprehend the point I was making. Progress is not measured solely in wins & losses.

= Beckham

In comment 12057877 Britt in VA said:

Quote:

.

Oh really, enlighten me. Because what I watched was a miserable product. It had three good games this year, Washington I, Rams, and Houston. Our other three wins were flawed and we lost 7 in a row, including the jags. I would suggest you have no clue what you were watching and defense counts, too. Went from a top 10 defense (if you don't look beyond the qbs we played last year) to one of the worst defenses in football. But I guess that doesn't count or maybe my eyes were deceiving me and our defense was great.

In comment 12057903 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:

Quote:

they both sucked for the most part, but I think it's obvious we were better this year. This year's Offensive improvement was nice to see, and there's still a ton of room for growth. Our OL is weak, our running game is weak, our receiving corps is ok outside Beckham. And we were still an above-average O this year. That's pretty amazing considering where this O was last year. The D took a step back. We still have a lot of work to do on that end.

The offense was better but the defense was worse? How does that make the team "clearly better"?

fixed him and put him on a better path even before Beckham started to have an impact.

The Giants had arguably the worst offense in the entire NFL last season when you factored in turnovers and, despite still having significant talent issues on that side of the ball, they rebounded to being slightly above average.

Maybe it wasn't a miracle cure that drove them back into having a top five offense instantly, but that's still significant progress and something very real to build off of going forward, as they hopefully add more talent into the mix.

You almost sound like you made up your mind and want to believe something, so you're just going to do it.

Was a good performance, if you discount how bad they were.

but took at least two steps back defensively (some of it due to injuries, most of it due to OCs outsmarting Fewell on a weekly basis)

This was only the second year of a complete overhaul from an old team with no salary cap room, an aging and very bad offensive line, and little young talent to a team with an excellent salary situation, an offensive rookie of the year, and a line with two young top picks and potential for improvement.

The purge that began the first week of February 2013 with the release of all of those veterans (Boley, Bradshaw, et al) and subsequent rebuild is almost complete. Have some patience.

Eli played much better.

But watching the Dallas OL today you could see we are not in their league.

In comment 12057874 jeff57 said:

Quote:

1-8 this year. That's what I call progress, baby.

Last season, they were blown out repeatedly and quite often were embarrassingly bad. Even with the 2014 losses to teams with winning records, these games were rather close...

- 4th quarter lead versus Arizona
- Down 1 score in 4th quarter @ Dallas
- Tied in 4th quarter @ Seattle
- Down 1 score with ball inside 10 yard line in 4th quarter versus San Francisco
- 4th quarter lead versus Dallas
- Down 1 score in 4th quarter versus Eagles

is that this year will not be next year as teams in the offseason have tape, time and ability to offset our strengths (beckham ). Looks like the Eagles did a good job on Beckham today considering their talent level in the back.

Don't get too comfortable about that progress that some are speaking of here, this is not a very good team, nor is it well coached right now.

Quote:

interesting thing mdc1 : 5:56 pm : link : reply is that this year will not be next year as teams in the offseason have tape, time and ability to offset our strengths (beckham ). Looks like the Eagles did a good job on Beckham today considering their talent level in the back.

12 catches for 185 yards and a TD. Yeah, the Eagles did a "good job".

Haha. Back to BBI retirement.

The only thing they did a good job on was making him really angry and even that was more because of the refs being incompetent and letting them get away with their BS.

The people on this thread act like defense doesn't matter and we were an offensive juggernaut. We had a special superstar player who was excellent. I think our offense was better this year, but not enough to feel like a change shouldn'tbe made and if the new coach wants to keep McAddo, that would be his choice. If not, I am sure there are other WCO guys out there so Eli doesn't have to learn a new offense two years in a row.

In comment 12057928 BigBlueBuff said:

Quote:

Quote: interesting thing mdc1 : 5:56 pm : link : reply is that this year will not be next year as teams in the offseason have tape, time and ability to offset our strengths (beckham ). Looks like the Eagles did a good job on Beckham today considering their talent level in the back. 12 catches for 185 yards and a TD. Yeah, the Eagles did a "good job". Haha. Back to BBI retirement.

So you really believe he is going to run roughshod over the NFL forever? You are delusional.

In comment 12057909 Essex said:

Quote:

In comment 12057877 Britt in VA said: Quote: . Oh really, enlighten me. Because what I watched was a miserable product. It had three good games this year, Washington I, Rams, and Houston. Our other three wins were flawed and we lost 7 in a row, including the jags. I would suggest you have no clue what you were watching and defense counts, too. Went from a top 10 defense (if you don't look beyond the qbs we played last year) to one of the worst defenses in football. But I guess that doesn't count or maybe my eyes were deceiving me and our defense was great.

Going from 18 passing TD's to 30 = Progress

Going from 27 INT's to 14 INT's = Progress

You see anything even remotely close to Odell Beckham on last year's team? Progress.

We finished 28th in offensive scoring last year. This year we finished 13th overall. Progress.

Now, did we have a good season? No. But there was progress.

In comment 12057911 jeff57 said:

Quote:

In comment 12057903 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said: Quote: they both sucked for the most part, but I think it's obvious we were better this year. This year's Offensive improvement was nice to see, and there's still a ton of room for growth. Our OL is weak, our running game is weak, our receiving corps is ok outside Beckham. And we were still an above-average O this year. That's pretty amazing considering where this O was last year. The D took a step back. We still have a lot of work to do on that end. The offense was better but the defense was worse? How does that make the team "clearly better"?

The D was worse this year, but I feel like last year's D was overrated. Our Offense was just so bad that opposing Offenses seemed to be conservative against us last year.

The loss of Will Hill was big. But overall I felt like last year's D wasn't as good as the stats indicated. This year they declined but I don't think the difference in D between the '13 and '14 teams is as big as the difference between the '13 O and the '14 O.

What about wins?

It is called a bottom line and the bottom line here for three years has stunk.

They took a step back this season, but it wasn't as big as it superficially looks thanks to how flukey their schedule was last season.

They also had what they thought was going to be the strength of the team, their secondary, pretty much wiped out by injury -- even a guy like DRC who plugged away, week after week, was badly banged up and limited in what he was actually physically capable -- and a bit of stupidity (Hill).

The fixing of Eli and the offense moving up from being league worst to solid was more than enough to outweigh that -- and, besides, it's not like keeping Coughlin/McAdoo means Fewell has to stay too.

We need more wins.

It is a work in progress, which there has been some of.

It takes time to learn a new offense.

The defense sucks, and has sucked since 2010 save for a few games in 2011.

Every year you can't replace the coordinator and say the head man isn't responsible for the bottom line. Three years in a row the bottom line has been bad.

In comment 12057945 Essex said:

Quote:

What about wins? It is called a bottom line and the bottom line here for three years has stunk.

more troubling is our performance in our own division. Realize we did not even split with our division opponents, except sweeping the skins. We are in serious loser territory now and the question becomes how far behind we are on the talent and coaching. Winning and beating your division opponents are kind of a given.

but it's a safe bet ownership can't be happy with the defense performance, especially with the heritage of defense this organization has.

We need to catch the Eagles or we will be in bad shape for the next three or four years. You can't finish third in your division and expect to make the playoffs often(I know we did it in 06 but it is rare for three teams to make it).

It's good for the management that the fans have this kind of expectations.

Now that the euphoria over the previous 3 games is over, why don't we find the positives from this game?

We can root for the team however we want, unfortunately I just see more of the same next year, unless you think the progress we made from '13 to this year truly qualifies as progress.

In comment 12057978 BigGame said:

Quote:

It's good for the management that the fans have this kind of expectations. Now that the euphoria over the previous 3 games is over, why don't we find the positives from this game? We can root for the team however we want, unfortunately I just see more of the same next year, unless you think the progress we made from '13 to this year truly qualifies as progress.

Then I guess you can take a year off next year since you already know the results, then.

we have the best red zone offense in my viewing tenure- which is 25 years. that is a result of play calling.
we have no interior line or RT push to run the ball. what do you expect.

In comment 12057954 Essex said:

Quote:

Every year you can't replace the coordinator and say the head man isn't responsible for the bottom line. Three years in a row the bottom line has been bad.

Bottom line? You can't judge these things by wins and losses. Just keep saying to yourself, we're making progress. And everything will be alright.

And if we should have another losing season next year, as long as we make progress on defense there will be no need to change the coach or the GM.

the ST made little progress.
the offense made a lot of progress.

the first 2 are a bad theme for some time... so the thread title is fine for that aspect... and that is why those coaches need to be sent packing

but where change was made... progress was made. that is a good thing despite the season still being a failure.

the results will likely be the same. Makes you wonder if this GM and HC are the right combination given the really bad things we see on talent AND coaching.

On the offensive line, at wide out, in the secondary, and at offensive coordinator.

This is a two year rebuilding project, at least. Year one is over, year two is next.

I'm optimistic about next year.

In comment 12058028 mdc1 said:

Quote:

the results will likely be the same. Makes you wonder if this GM and HC are the right combination given the really bad things we see on talent AND coaching.

right, it's like will we ever win a Super Bowl with this combination?

1st year offense that shows great promise

QB who has shown he can be tremendous in said offense

Rookies who contributed including star WR, OL, RB and LB

The OL was light years better in pass protection

This team was blown out regularly in 2013 and outside of SF game, was in games. They still lost, but were in them

We will say it again next year, but health is important.

in almost two years...

was more comfortable with it as the season went on. Next season he should feel really on top of it. The Defense needs Linebackers. DB's if they come back healthy are fine although a Safety would be nice. They do not have more than 1 Linebacker I would keep and that is Kennard. The Dline if they resign JPP is OK but the lB's are the Achilles Heel on this team

In comment 12058060 Blue Blood said:

Quote:

in almost two years...

Stafford? Ryan?

In comment 12058081 dep026 said:

Quote:

In comment 12058060 Blue Blood said: Quote: in almost two years... Stafford? Ryan?

suddenly our record improved to 7-9 in one thread response. Golden.

Stafford might have last year, but the point , which was not mine, remains the same.

In comment 12058090 mdc1 said:

Quote:

In comment 12058081 dep026 said: Quote: In comment 12058060 Blue Blood said: Quote: in almost two years... Stafford? Ryan? suddenly our record improved to 7-9 in one thread response. Golden.

He is talking about last year with stafford I presume

were for losers?

proud they finished strong. Lot more rebuilding.

To go from a year where he led the league in picks (27) and threw far more of those than TD's (18) and also have a year where his completion percentage was the lowest of his career to a year where he threw 30 TD passes to just 14 picks, completed a career high % of his passes and threw for close to 4,500 yards is a huge, huge sign of progress.

Yes, the defense sucked this year and a change needs to be made there. But this offense was legitimately inept last season. To the point where we simply were just not even competitive in most of the games we played. They made a big turnaround this year and will continue to improve.

Offensively, there is a lot to be optimistic about. If we can improve the OL more in the offseason, they have a chance to be a pretty good unit next year.

either the Rams took the day off or the Giants Offense is pretty good

not good enough, but a lot better. The young players on the team show that we can make even greater strides next year.

In comment 12057925 mdc1 said:

Quote:

Looks like the Eagles did a good job on Beckham today considering their talent level in the back.

Actually, the Eagles tried very hard to shut down Beckham and the results speak for themselves.

I fully expect other teams to try the same next year making stars out of Victor Cruz & Reuben Randle.

Offense is slightly better due to Beckham and really nothing else. The OL isn't any better at all. They still can't run block effectively, and they still allow too much pressure on passing downs. The TEs really aren't any better, either. Any apparent TE progress is mostly from plays early in the season when the opponents weren't worrying about them. The RBs aren't any better either. In fact, maybe worse.

The Defense has sunk to a new low. The DL is just OK, the LBs still stink to high heaven, the best CBs are mostly on IR, and the Safeties were worse than last season. No apparent progress was made on reducing the communications issues, either. Major changes are needed all over the D.

Special teams continue to stink to high heaven. Gave up a punt block for a TD, a FG block, a deflected punt that got the punter hurt, a couple of TD returns, and didn't do squat in the return game. They had only a successful on side kick and very good overall placement (PAT & FG) success to balance it out. Quinn needs to be replaced by a competent ST coach and they need to get some players on Specials who can actually play. For instance, this means dumping Demps who was the personal protector on both the deflected and the blocked punt plays.

The overall team record was slightly worse than last year because they didn't have as many patsy QBs to beat up on as in 2013.

It remains obvious that the GIANTS can't complete effectively with the better teams in the league, and can't even consistently beat the also rans.

This team needs a total housecleaning starting with the front office.

In comment 12058168 Headhunter said:

Quote:

either the Rams took the day off or the Giants Offense is pretty good

Seattle doesn't win with their offense. Seattle beat them how Seattle wins their games, enough offense with a stifling defense

.

. . .

The emergence of OBJ was the only real positive.

without him, they might have finished 1-10 in their last 11 games

that's unbelievably awful when you have a franchise QB

They successfully replaced their long time OC with a new OC who proceeded to install an entire new offense. That alone would be progress because in the NFL that it isn't always so easily done.

The drafting and successful first season of Odell is huge progress for the team moving forward.

Take that even further and the contributions of so many young players is successful progress.

Personally I was never worried about Eli, but for many his "rebound" has to be considered as progress this season.

I don't understand how any fan who watches the Giants could feel there was no progress made.

.

and it means nothing because Seattle has a great defense and they don't really need to score

In comment 12058347 steve in ky said:

Quote:

They successfully replaced their long time OC with a new OC who proceeded to install an entire new offense. That alone would be progress because in the NFL that it isn't always so easily done. The drafting and successful first season of Odell is huge progress for the team moving forward. Take that even further and the contributions of so many young players is successful progress. Personally I was never worried about Eli, but for many his "rebound" has to be considered as progress this season. I don't understand how any fan who watches the Giants could feel there was no progress made.

I guess you turned off the tv when the defense came on the field or forgot that in order to win, we need to stop others from scoring. Or that we were 6-10, and the only win we had versus a team with a winning record was the mighty Texans. And, also, I said we didn't make "much" progress.

that could gain 500 yards a game, wait a second, no we didn't, never mind

In comment 12058371 Headhunter said:

Quote:

and it means nothing because Seattle has a great defense and they don't really need to score

No, the Rams are a 6-10 team. Don't expect me to do cartwheels because we won that game. However, in a post In this thread, I mentioned it was one of our better wins.

My point is, I don't see enough progress with this staff to justify yet another year. Most people here want to fire 2/3rds of TCs coordinators but still want to keep him. To me, that is insanity. Think about that, 2/3rds of the operation is doing a poor job, we have been bad for three years and we want to just act like we made significant progress because a superstar was found. IMO, a new coaching staff could also target Beckham 21 times , as we did today.

the reality is you don't give 2 shits what I think and I certainly don't give a rat's patooey what anyone else thinks. We get to see our meaningless opinions in print and come away from it none the wiser.

In comment 12058386 Headhunter said:

Quote:

that could gain 500 yards a game, wait a second, no we didn't, never mind

The other team had 34 and we had 26.

In comment 12058379 Essex said:

Quote:

In comment 12058347 steve in ky said: Quote: They successfully replaced their long time OC with a new OC who proceeded to install an entire new offense. That alone would be progress because in the NFL that it isn't always so easily done. The drafting and successful first season of Odell is huge progress for the team moving forward. Take that even further and the contributions of so many young players is successful progress. Personally I was never worried about Eli, but for many his "rebound" has to be considered as progress this season. I don't understand how any fan who watches the Giants could feel there was no progress made. I guess you turned off the tv when the defense came on the field or forgot that in order to win, we need to stop others from scoring. Or that we were 6-10, and the only win we had versus a team with a winning record was the mighty Texans. And, also, I said we didn't make "much" progress.

Yes the defense still needs some work, and the team obviously is not a finished product but what does that have to do with any of the progress that has been made? Can you really not separate the two?

In comment 12058408 Headhunter said:

Quote:

the reality is you don't give 2 shits what I think and I certainly don't give a rat's patooey what anyone else thinks. We get to see our meaningless opinions in print and come away from it none the wiser.

I don't mind having civil conversations with other giants fans. I just hate the I know more than you garbage (not that you were engaging in it). If I didn't care what other people thought I wouldn't be here

In comment 12058415 steve in ky said:

Quote:

In comment 12058379 Essex said: Quote: In comment 12058347 steve in ky said: Quote: They successfully replaced their long time OC with a new OC who proceeded to install an entire new offense. That alone would be progress because in the NFL that it isn't always so easily done. The drafting and successful first season of Odell is huge progress for the team moving forward. Take that even further and the contributions of so many young players is successful progress. Personally I was never worried about Eli, but for many his "rebound" has to be considered as progress this season. I don't understand how any fan who watches the Giants could feel there was no progress made. I guess you turned off the tv when the defense came on the field or forgot that in order to win, we need to stop others from scoring. Or that we were 6-10, and the only win we had versus a team with a winning record was the mighty Texans. And, also, I said we didn't make "much" progress. Yes the defense still needs some work, and the team obviously is not a finished product but what does that have to do with any of the progress that has been made? Can you really not separate the two?

No, I can't because both contribute to the final result of the game. A step forward on offense, with a step back on defense is not progress.

completed turning the team around and that I will give you, but to be blind to the progress that has been made this season makes little sense to me when based solely on the fact that they are still a work in progress.

And we invested heavily in offseason on defense and it went to one of the worst in league

That is the opposite of progress

in the Secondary not so much in the front 7. Therein lies the problem.

but still ignoring the obvious progress that has been made.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree if you don't view the things I pointed out in my first post as progress.

I don't understand the thought process of all or nothing when speaking of progress having been made.

On the offensive line, we drafted our future starting center (Richburg), signed two backups (Jerry and Walton) and hopefully added a starting guard in Schwartz.
At wr, we drafted one of the best in the league (Beckham).
At rb, it's a question. I think Jensen, Williams and Darkwa will be ok, once we get more power in the line and te.

At de, Wynn should be at least a good backup. Ayers looks like a keeper.
At linebacker, Kennard will be a decent starter.
At corner, DRC is the real deal if he can stay healthy.
At safety, we regressed.

.

really came on the last 3 weeks

- Protect McAdoo at all costs. He did a good job this year all things considered. If we need to make him the HC now to keep him, we need to do it. If we lose him, our offense is back to square one.
- Extend Eli, opens up cap room and provides stability at QB for the next 3 years or so. He's earned it.
- Hire a "big time" DC and fix the D. Only real keepers are Prince, Hankins, Kennard, JPP, maybe DRC. We really need safeties, draft one high and bring in a good FA.
- JPP needs to come back, don't think we have a choice. Franchise him if need be.
- More OL, we need another OT and OG at a minimum.

Offense made a ton of progress. Defense is a mess. Special teams is still a mess.

Fewell & Quinn need to go.