Mike Garafolo & #8207;@MikeGarafolo
Mentioned on air a little bit ago there's been a steady drumbeat about a possible return to NYG for Steve Spagnuolo that isn't going away.
but fact remains this team needs talent so that the new DC whoever he is can be agressive and not have to worry that he is leaving a bad player on an island...
Things are way, way easier when you have a hall of famer (Strahan), a speed demon strip master (Osi), and a rock solid steady presence (Tuck) all on your defensive line at the same time. A line good enough where a player like Kiwi before his injuries can be your 4th option.
I think this would be a bad hire. I think he was an OK DC coordinator when here, bolstered by a supremely talented DL. Since he left, he was a joke as a HC, did absolutely nothing in NO except have one of the worst defenses ever, and then took a big step backward in terms of responsibility in Baltimore. I haven't watched enough of their games to make a judgement, but I will point out that while their D overall is decent, he is a secondary coach for one of the worst passing Ds in terms of yardage.
is ok here to defend TC and the results the Giants have had the last few years but gets ignored when looking at other coaches from other teams or even our own assistants.
if it fails, it fails. this is tom's last stand and i'm OK reuniting him with spags for it
Spags 2 stops were at STL (sh#tty organization, horrible injury situation) and NO in the year following Bounty-gate sanctions. since then he hasn't ran a Defense. are we really going to hold the black hole of a year following Bountygate against him??? that is beyond insane. he wasnt up to the job turning the Rams around - and IMO he's not a Head Coach - so be it. that speaks nothing to his abilities as a DC
what we do know is that he was a great fit here, as a defensive coordinator, and had us convinced to make him the highest paid asst. coach in the league b4 he left
give this guy prince, drc and thurmond at CB and let him play press-man
Things are way, way easier when you have a hall of famer (Strahan), a speed demon strip master (Osi), and a rock solid steady presence (Tuck) all on your defensive line at the same time. A line good enough where a player like Kiwi before his injuries can be your 4th option.
Year 2 here he didn't have Strahan and Osi and he seemed to do okay, no?
and not well thought out decision? We need a new Defensive Coordinator? Ummm, what's the last guy who was here before Perry doing? He was pretty good.
You're telling me there's no other qualified candidates out there? You're telling me the absolute best choice for our Defensive Coordinator Steve? Just seems lazy to me.
He took the first HCing job that was offered. So can't fault him for that because you never know when you might get offered another one.
The Saints DC position was a poor choice especially since Sean P. was suspended as well as players and other coaches. So just a bad choice in wanting to go there. That team has issues across the board.
I understand you the choice though. After a failed HCing gig, you want to bring your stock back up and chose the Saints. However, the situation surrounding the team made the chose not a good one.
I think our franchise is stable enough to offer him a chance to bring his stock back up.
Things are way, way easier when you have a hall of famer (Strahan), a speed demon strip master (Osi), and a rock solid steady presence (Tuck) all on your defensive line at the same time. A line good enough where a player like Kiwi before his injuries can be your 4th option.
Umm 2008 he only had Tuck and Kiwi at defensive end and the giants defense was 3rd in the NFL...
So he did prove he could have a good defense without Strahan and Osi...
their secondary was James Butler and Michael Johnson as their starters, Phllips was a rookie, Webster and Ross were the corners, The LBs were Blackburn, Pierce and Danny Clark..
So where was the talent on that defense that still ranked 3rd in the NFL?
RE: He's been terrible at everything he's tried since he left here.
is Spags body of work here in NY. He was here two seasons and the D never sucked. Even in 2008 when Strahan was done and Osi was hurt--the D still played well. That's all I know...
I can't put too much into what happened with the Saints but it's a little concerning. I don't think Spags is Tom Landry redux but he's had great success in NY--he's worked with Coughlin and he's looking for a job. It makes sense. I'd prefer Spags over Fewell that's for sure.
for spending so much time prior to us as a position coach? Aside from his one or two good years here (and there was a down year in there, too), he's been a failure at anything but position.
I don't think it would be good to bring him back. bring in an up and comer, not a one (or two) year wonder who hasn't been anything since.
RE: Doesn't this seem like it would be a really lazy
and not well thought out decision? We need a new Defensive Coordinator? Ummm, what's the last guy who was here before Perry doing? He was pretty good.
You're telling me there's no other qualified candidates out there? You're telling me the absolute best choice for our Defensive Coordinator Steve? Just seems lazy to me.
This is a very fair point. Reminds me of all the Mike Sullivan/OC talk last offseason, before we ultimately (and wisely) changed systems completely. We're going the safer route here.
round DE should, and Tuck was prime form. Both Cofield and Robbins were really good at DT. Pierce started out the season well until his neck started to bother him.
Let's stop with pretending the 2008 defense was talentless. Perry Fewell would have sacrificed a small animal or twenty for that DL alone.
They know what Spags is worth, the good and the bad. The devil you know and all that.
I'd like to see them go in a different direction, but honestly, I don't know who the available candidates are. There's not one position coach or available proven DC sitting out there that I can point to and say 'why don't they go after him?'. I'd love to see them approach Fangio of SF, but he's traditionally been a 3-4 guy and we don't have the personnel to swing that.
RE: RE: Doesn't this seem like it would be a really lazy
and not well thought out decision? We need a new Defensive Coordinator? Ummm, what's the last guy who was here before Perry doing? He was pretty good.
You're telling me there's no other qualified candidates out there? You're telling me the absolute best choice for our Defensive Coordinator Steve? Just seems lazy to me.
This is a very fair point. Reminds me of all the Mike Sullivan/OC talk last offseason, before we ultimately (and wisely) changed systems completely. We're going the safer route here.
It's different though. Sully was never an OC. Spags was our DC that changed our defense with the same personnel Tim Lewis had. We own a SB with him as the DC.
Coach Sully never was an OC for us or anyone else.
As DC of NO he was bad but so is that defense plus the Saints had other issues going on. I think in the Giants organization under Coughlin he will strive again and fit right back in. I would like to see a new LB coach though added to the team.
What'd he do when he didn't have Strahan, a young Tuck, a young Osi, Fred Robbins, Antonio Pierce, a young Webster, veterans like Madison and McQuarters?
I concede there are two ways to look at that. One is you need talent to show your talent, and he didn't have that type of talent in the other places he went. I agree. But the other way to look at it is maybe he's not that good to begin with and his warts were hidden by the talent he had with the Giants.
I have nothing against him, and don't see any scenario where he does any worse than what the Giants have had, but I'd like them to go in a different direction and hire someone new. Give a position coach from somewhere else his big break.
and not well thought out decision? We need a new Defensive Coordinator? Ummm, what's the last guy who was here before Perry doing? He was pretty good.
You're telling me there's no other qualified candidates out there? You're telling me the absolute best choice for our Defensive Coordinator Steve? Just seems lazy to me.
This. Really disappointed at the lack of effort by the front office if this rumor comes true.
Mike Sullivan last year, everyone had pegged Sullivan to return as OC for the giants,
granted the reason he wasn't brought back was they wanted a new system,
but i think everyone has rose colored glasses when it comes to spags, i would rather grab a hot DC candidate from SF, Arizona, or Seattle, much like the way we brought in Spags, cherry pick the better teams of their assistants.
this isn't a very attractive DC vacancy. It's a 6-10 team with limited talent on defense, and two key cogs (JPP/Rolle) are free agents. Also, the head coach is making his last stand at 70 with a bright OC tabbed as a potential successor.
But if Spags is brought in to replace him I wonder if Strahan and the others might be able to convince him to stay because it will be worth it to play under Spags. May not mean a thing to him but it might.
but I don't understand why he'd want the gig. If he wants to be a HC again, he obviously needs a successful stint as a DC, but strictly looking at the optics of the situation, returning to the Giants, under the same HC, doesn't make him look like a guy who's deserving of another chance. Even if he does well.
Provided they did their due diligence aka talking to guys like Pepper, Jim Tomsula, etc.
If TC feels more comfortable with Spags than anyone else, it seems reasonable given he was Coughlin's only good DC hire. I'd just hate for him to be forced on TC because of the past or familiarity.
Actually, compared to the defenses lately, 2008 was the Seahawks.
The depth on the DL to be able to retire Strahan and lose Osi and still be what they were up until the last couple weeks, when they physically broke down too much, was pretty amazing. The LBs and S were both better then too, on the whole.
It's honestly a bit depressing to think about what's become of this team, talent-wise, since then.
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Like any other coach they need talent...
What talent did he have in St. Louis?
New Orleans was a terrible situation with Payton suspended the team was in turmoil and that defense hasnt been good in years...
HOWEVA!
Things are way, way easier when you have a hall of famer (Strahan), a speed demon strip master (Osi), and a rock solid steady presence (Tuck) all on your defensive line at the same time. A line good enough where a player like Kiwi before his injuries can be your 4th option.
You can't have it both ways.
Spags 2 stops were at STL (sh#tty organization, horrible injury situation) and NO in the year following Bounty-gate sanctions. since then he hasn't ran a Defense. are we really going to hold the black hole of a year following Bountygate against him??? that is beyond insane. he wasnt up to the job turning the Rams around - and IMO he's not a Head Coach - so be it. that speaks nothing to his abilities as a DC
what we do know is that he was a great fit here, as a defensive coordinator, and had us convinced to make him the highest paid asst. coach in the league b4 he left
give this guy prince, drc and thurmond at CB and let him play press-man
HOWEVA!
Things are way, way easier when you have a hall of famer (Strahan), a speed demon strip master (Osi), and a rock solid steady presence (Tuck) all on your defensive line at the same time. A line good enough where a player like Kiwi before his injuries can be your 4th option.
Year 2 here he didn't have Strahan and Osi and he seemed to do okay, no?
You're telling me there's no other qualified candidates out there? You're telling me the absolute best choice for our Defensive Coordinator Steve? Just seems lazy to me.
He took the first HCing job that was offered. So can't fault him for that because you never know when you might get offered another one.
The Saints DC position was a poor choice especially since Sean P. was suspended as well as players and other coaches. So just a bad choice in wanting to go there. That team has issues across the board.
I understand you the choice though. After a failed HCing gig, you want to bring your stock back up and chose the Saints. However, the situation surrounding the team made the chose not a good one.
I think our franchise is stable enough to offer him a chance to bring his stock back up.
HOWEVA!
Things are way, way easier when you have a hall of famer (Strahan), a speed demon strip master (Osi), and a rock solid steady presence (Tuck) all on your defensive line at the same time. A line good enough where a player like Kiwi before his injuries can be your 4th option.
Umm 2008 he only had Tuck and Kiwi at defensive end and the giants defense was 3rd in the NFL...
So he did prove he could have a good defense without Strahan and Osi...
their secondary was James Butler and Michael Johnson as their starters, Phllips was a rookie, Webster and Ross were the corners, The LBs were Blackburn, Pierce and Danny Clark..
So where was the talent on that defense that still ranked 3rd in the NFL?
Yeah, I think so. But ANYBODY would be better than Perry 'Smiling' Futile.
Quote:
It would be an absolutely awful hire.
Like any other coach they need talent...
What talent did he have in St. Louis?
New Orleans was a terrible situation with Payton suspended the team was in turmoil and that defense hasnt been good in years...
So then why are we firing Fewell if it's just about talent?
Spags was a wretched HC, DC of a historically terrible defense in NO, and hasn't exactly overseen a good secondary in his most recent job attempt.
It'll be a total fan appeasement move and not a smart football one to bring him back here. I'd like to think the Giants are better than that.
I can't put too much into what happened with the Saints but it's a little concerning. I don't think Spags is Tom Landry redux but he's had great success in NY--he's worked with Coughlin and he's looking for a job. It makes sense. I'd prefer Spags over Fewell that's for sure.
the starting defense was
tuck
Cofield
Robbins
Kiwi
Clark
Pierce
Blackburn
Webster
Butler
Johnson
Ross
Phillips was a rookie that year...so where is the great talent that he led to the 3rd best defense in the NFL?
I don't think it would be good to bring him back. bring in an up and comer, not a one (or two) year wonder who hasn't been anything since.
You're telling me there's no other qualified candidates out there? You're telling me the absolute best choice for our Defensive Coordinator Steve? Just seems lazy to me.
This is a very fair point. Reminds me of all the Mike Sullivan/OC talk last offseason, before we ultimately (and wisely) changed systems completely. We're going the safer route here.
We're not there already? It seems like the moron brigade broke down the gate and stormed the castle recently.
Let's stop with pretending the 2008 defense was talentless. Perry Fewell would have sacrificed a small animal or twenty for that DL alone.
I'd like to see them go in a different direction, but honestly, I don't know who the available candidates are. There's not one position coach or available proven DC sitting out there that I can point to and say 'why don't they go after him?'. I'd love to see them approach Fangio of SF, but he's traditionally been a 3-4 guy and we don't have the personnel to swing that.
Quote:
and not well thought out decision? We need a new Defensive Coordinator? Ummm, what's the last guy who was here before Perry doing? He was pretty good.
You're telling me there's no other qualified candidates out there? You're telling me the absolute best choice for our Defensive Coordinator Steve? Just seems lazy to me.
This is a very fair point. Reminds me of all the Mike Sullivan/OC talk last offseason, before we ultimately (and wisely) changed systems completely. We're going the safer route here.
It's different though. Sully was never an OC. Spags was our DC that changed our defense with the same personnel Tim Lewis had. We own a SB with him as the DC.
Coach Sully never was an OC for us or anyone else.
Quote:
BBI is going to become comedy central.
We're not there already? It seems like the moron brigade broke down the gate and stormed the castle recently.
Wait til Quinn stays and Eli gets his $100 million extension!
Year 2 here he didn't have Strahan and Osi and he seemed to do okay, no?
Forgot he was still here in 2008. Don't mind me over here.
I concede there are two ways to look at that. One is you need talent to show your talent, and he didn't have that type of talent in the other places he went. I agree. But the other way to look at it is maybe he's not that good to begin with and his warts were hidden by the talent he had with the Giants.
I have nothing against him, and don't see any scenario where he does any worse than what the Giants have had, but I'd like them to go in a different direction and hire someone new. Give a position coach from somewhere else his big break.
I mean, was it lazy when the Steelers brought back Dick Lebough? No.
You're telling me there's no other qualified candidates out there? You're telling me the absolute best choice for our Defensive Coordinator Steve? Just seems lazy to me.
This. Really disappointed at the lack of effort by the front office if this rumor comes true.
granted the reason he wasn't brought back was they wanted a new system,
but i think everyone has rose colored glasses when it comes to spags, i would rather grab a hot DC candidate from SF, Arizona, or Seattle, much like the way we brought in Spags, cherry pick the better teams of their assistants.
that 2008 team had talent yest but their LB's were weak and their safeties were weak...
They had 2 good defensive ends on that team...it wasnt stacked with talent...
If TC feels more comfortable with Spags than anyone else, it seems reasonable given he was Coughlin's only good DC hire. I'd just hate for him to be forced on TC because of the past or familiarity.
It's honestly a bit depressing to think about what's become of this team, talent-wise, since then.