Mike Garafolo & #8207;@MikeGarafolo
Mentioned on air a little bit ago there's been a steady drumbeat about a possible return to NYG for Steve Spagnuolo that isn't going away.
this isn't a very attractive DC vacancy. It's a 6-10 team with limited talent on defense, and two key cogs (JPP/Rolle) are free agents. Also, the head coach is making his last stand at 70 with a bright OC tabbed as a potential successor.
How folks come to the conclusion that McAdoo is a head coach material is beyond me, especially with no experience.
Is better than Fewel even if he wasn't
succesful post Giants. He may be
our best choice since Mara wont
$$$ for top coach. Keep in mind
we have some issues on offense too.
Eli can't move...oline sucks..need
rb who can catch...w/o 13 we
suck.. worse oline..wr..te..coaches
in league..ect.
and not well thought out decision? We need a new Defensive Coordinator? Ummm, what's the last guy who was here before Perry doing? He was pretty good.
You're telling me there's no other qualified candidates out there? You're telling me the absolute best choice for our Defensive Coordinator Steve? Just seems lazy to me.
He's a guy that many Giants fans liked and he was successful here. Many of us loved he used the Jim Johnson defense and would try to pressure the opposition. I think there is a foundation in place so don't agree with anything lazy about wanting a coach we liked based on scheme and the historical success he had with the Giants.
They know what Spags is worth, the good and the bad. The devil you know and all that.
I'd like to see them go in a different direction, but honestly, I don't know who the available candidates are. There's not one position coach or available proven DC sitting out there that I can point to and say 'why don't they go after him?'. I'd love to see them approach Fangio of SF, but he's traditionally been a 3-4 guy and we don't have the personnel to swing that.
this isn't a very attractive DC vacancy. It's a 6-10 team with limited talent on defense, and two key cogs (JPP/Rolle) are free agents. Also, the head coach is making his last stand at 70 with a bright OC tabbed as a potential successor.
How folks come to the conclusion that McAdoo is a head coach material is beyond me, especially with no experience.
It comes from people thinking, despite all evidence to the contrary, that ownership has given even a second's thought to who will replace Coughlin when he's finished here. Like they were the ones who hired McAdoo, and not just that, but they hired him so they could, one day, promote him to HC, regardless of how he performed as an OC.
this isn't a very attractive DC vacancy. It's a 6-10 team with limited talent on defense, and two key cogs (JPP/Rolle) are free agents. Also, the head coach is making his last stand at 70 with a bright OC tabbed as a potential successor.
How many DC vacancies generally come with top notch defensive players in place?
He took the first HCing job that was offered. So can't fault him for that because you never know when you might get offered another one.
My memory is lousy, but didn't he walk away from a shot at the Redskins HC position?
I am in the same boat. I am not sure about the redskins. Sounds familiar but not sure. I do remember Marc Ross turning down to interview with the Jets, lol.
I am not sure about the redskins. Perhaps it was the possibility of working with the owner. I don't fault him for taking the very first offer. Look how long it took for Bruce Arians to finally make it as a HC. He was basically retired and came back and had success and then got his HCing chance.
I feel bad for coaches that want their shot and a bad franchise is the first to offer it. Chud got fired after 1 year. You're screwing around with peoples lives and their families. Moving into a new city, and kids going to school, and then in 1 year uprooting that. I hate when those bad franchises do that to their coaches.
I don't think any other DC candidate would join the Giants
This is possibly a one and done situation in 2015 if the team doesn't rebound. I can see Spags being the only one accepting this job because he knows Tom Coughlin and the Giants.
defenses, minus the first two and a half games of his tenure here, were the best, BY FAR, of the Tom Coughlin era. Those saying it was much more talented really are mistaken. Pierce was our best LBer, and was just above average. The team was rolling to another SB in 08 (minus Stray and Osi) when Plax shot himself and Pierce was with him. Brought the whole team down. Bringing back a guy who had great success with TC makes sense. Let's face it, they don't make the playoffs next year, no one will be back.
but his best work came in 2008, a season during which he did not have Strahan, Osi, or Kawika Mitchell. Among the starters on that defense (5th in the NFL in points allowed) were Danny Clark, James Butler, and Michael Johnson.
I remember him as having an excellent ability to dictate a suboptimal play to a QB on third down. My favorite defensive play the Giants have run in many years was the corner blitz on 3rd and 7+ that would cause the QB and WR to run a hot slant right into Kenny Phillips. The result was almost always a 6 yard gain and a punt.
If Spags is the guy it raises the importance of the safety position even more. Need smart players that will take good angles.
is probably just somebody they like as the NFL is like the NBA, a bunch of retreads. The variation in skill is not that great and really comes down to if players are bought in and care to perform together in unison with the coaching. One problem I see with this defense moving forward is the incredible lack of speed, beyond the horrid talent at various spots.
They need to overhaul the coaching staff, inject more youth and college element to up-level the speed and athleticism. Carroll and Harbaugh learned some things prior to coming from/back the college ranks. When you can't stop a college read option it is very telling of the coaching and the players and more important the overal APPROACH to the game.
why so many people on this board are so aghast at possibly hiring back Spags?
While here, he was the DC of a Super Bowl winning team, and the 3rd ranked another season.
While here, he was beloved by the players and the fans.
Yes he stumbled as a HC, but lots of top assistants don't make it as the top guy. And some times, it takes a failure (See Bill Belicheck) to learn how to be successful as a head coach.
I'd love this choice and I bet the players would too.
1) He was a rookie DC when he was here...and did well in year one...most people get better if only from a "been here" sense of confidence that radiates
2) He was a LB coach prior to that...a long ignored aspect of the Giants in FO and coaching mindshare that in the new NFL has resonance.
3) He won here with TC...newbies cannot argue with the idea that he knows something
4) Being through the rigors of an NFL Season at HC/DC since then teaches you from your failures and successes...and teaches you how to reach a wider variety of players and helps you understand what works and what does not
5) Spags was liked by his players because he listened
6) One mark of a good DC is not what scheme he favors...I think that may be over rated...but what evidence there is that he got players to play better?...and within a year?
In one year, Spags got (now not all due to him...but getting out of the way is genius and so is overwhelming evidence he got the best out of what he had):
A great year from OSi (on the run and the pass defense...last guy to get OSi to play run? Remember his game against Walter Jones that year?)
A great year from Tuck
one more good year from Strahan
Ditto Robbins
The best years AP and Mitchell ever had
The best year Corey Webster ever had after a few bad ones
a big contribution from Sam Madison
Ditto young players and rookies like Aaron Ross and Alford
Ditto JAGS like McQuarters, James Butler, Dockery, Gibril Wilson.
In sum...young, old, stars and Jags at all three levels...Dl, LB and DB all were reached,played and felt a part of something big and worked hard and studied and got better and better. Against all different kinds of schemes and challenges as the season went on.
Accident? Maybe....but you would be arguing against a lot of data. Some credit (even if getting out of the way) has to be given.
if it is Spags? A lot of reasons to think its a good thing
this isn't a very attractive DC vacancy. It's a 6-10 team with limited talent on defense, and two key cogs (JPP/Rolle) are free agents. Also, the head coach is making his last stand at 70 with a bright OC tabbed as a potential successor.
fair point by the eagleman; any prospective DC who has designs on becoming HC in the near- or intermediate term will likely not take this vacancy (assuming, God-willing, it occurs) as a must-sign on opportunity. And this improves the odds on a hire such as Spags
I'm wondering if the Giants ownership long-term plan isn't to
and ensure we get to the QB. That's the name of the game now. I also think Spags would be looking to rebuild his reputation here. I think the guy can clearly coach defense. I also don't think we'll be scratching our heads at confused alignments and missed coverages with Spags either.
Definitely worth another shot here in my estimation.
Many respected posters on here will go to the ends of the earth to defend Gilbride, yet never miss a chance to shit on Spags. I wish we'd have ditched Fewell for Spags last season, but the Giants have been a year late on a lot of things lately.
RE: I'm wondering if the Giants ownership long-term plan isn't to
I am alwso swayed by the effect Spags had on individual players.
Remember when Michael Johnson looked like an emerging young NFL star? And Spags effect on Corey Webster alone justified his employment as Giants DC. I'd be really interested in seeing what Spags could do with Prince.
Also, not to mention, he took the same personnel that Tim Lewis had and increased sacks by 21 sacks just by implementing his aggressive scheme. He made use of guys like Webster, Michael Johnson, and James Butler.
Excellent use of players and personnel, and his scheme took the same players and added 21 sacks to the 2006 total of Tim Lewis.
an up and coming DC probably will want to build his own staff on the defensive side of the ball. The giants will not want to blow up the whole defensive staff. Spags is already familiar with everyone on the staff and has a good working relationship with the coaches. It seems like a lock if you look at this way.
I think Peter Guinta has done a good job as DB Coach
We've had garbage at DB since thurmond and prince went down. We've done ok back there for what we have to work with. I'd say players being out of position and miscommunication falls on Fewell for the most part.
RE: I'm wondering if the Giants ownership long-term plan isn't to
duplicate the Steelers coaching arrangement, with a long-term HC helped by a premier DC (LeBeau).
McAdoo = Tomlin
Spags = LeBeau
I had this same thought. After all the criticism of Coughlin's "coaching tree," it'd be hilarious if his final OC and DC followed him with a successful run.
1) He was a rookie DC when he was here...and did well in year one...most people get better if only from a "been here" sense of confidence that radiates
2) He was a LB coach prior to that...a long ignored aspect of the Giants in FO and coaching mindshare that in the new NFL has resonance.
3) He won here with TC...newbies cannot argue with the idea that he knows something
4) Being through the rigors of an NFL Season at HC/DC since then teaches you from your failures and successes...and teaches you how to reach a wider variety of players and helps you understand what works and what does not
5) Spags was liked by his players because he listened
6) One mark of a good DC is not what scheme he favors...I think that may be over rated...but what evidence there is that he got players to play better?...and within a year?
In one year, Spags got (now not all due to him...but getting out of the way is genius and so is overwhelming evidence he got the best out of what he had):
A great year from OSi (on the run and the pass defense...last guy to get OSi to play run? Remember his game against Walter Jones that year?)
A great year from Tuck
one more good year from Strahan
Ditto Robbins
The best years AP and Mitchell ever had
The best year Corey Webster ever had after a few bad ones
a big contribution from Sam Madison
Ditto young players and rookies like Aaron Ross and Alford
Ditto JAGS like McQuarters, James Butler, Dockery, Gibril Wilson.
In sum...young, old, stars and Jags at all three levels...Dl, LB and DB all were reached,played and felt a part of something big and worked hard and studied and got better and better. Against all different kinds of schemes and challenges as the season went on.
Accident? Maybe....but you would be arguing against a lot of data. Some credit (even if getting out of the way) has to be given.
if it is Spags? A lot of reasons to think its a good thing
Excellent analysis!
Unlike Antdog I've been very suspicious of the job Giunta has been
And then realised Bill had summed it up about ten timbut es more effectively.
It just makes too much sense. You need someone who can come here and win now with TC. Spags is the obvious candidate.
On top of that he is the only guy who really has looked the part since John Fox. I think of Spags' time here and I think of a teacher. He was always teaching. Even during a game you'd see him working with a DT on a swim move or a DB on hand placement. I just had so much confidence in him and you can see why the players did.
Final thought. BBI has some absolute puppets posting but we also have some very smart ones and usually BBI's collective assessment of someone is worth something. BBI loved Spags and I think that should count for something.
So... On the record... I'd take Spags back in a heartbeat.
this isn't a very attractive DC vacancy. It's a 6-10 team with limited talent on defense, and two key cogs (JPP/Rolle) are free agents. Also, the head coach is making his last stand at 70 with a bright OC tabbed as a potential successor.
Totally agree with this. There is great uncertainty and no clear path to the next job for a DC coming here. This actually seems like a pretty decent option.
Also, not to mention, he took the same personnel that Tim Lewis had and increased sacks by 21 sacks just by implementing his aggressive scheme. He made use of guys like Webster, Michael Johnson, and James Butler.
Excellent use of players and personnel, and his scheme took the same players and added 21 sacks to the 2006 total of Tim Lewis.
Remember when Tim Lewis wasn't the problem?
This whole anti-Spags thing has become a weird little item
of BBI received wisdom, and I'm not quite sure why. Yeah, he flopped with the Rams - who gives a shit? Dick LeBeau flopped with the Bengals in a similar situation (ace DC struggling with a horrid franchise). Didn't have much of anything to do with LeBeau's abilities as a DC.
The Saints thing was a fucking fiasco from stem to stern long before Spags had anything to do with them. Their defense was light on talent to begin with. There was an interim head coach. The "leaders" of the defense were loyal to Williams and pretty much said before the season that they were going to ignore whoever replaced him. I have no idea why that clusterfuck is supposed to outweigh the outstanding work he did as the Giants DC.
but if you're a position coach who wants to HC someday, I'd think you'll take an unattractive option over staying where you are. Because if you stay a position coach and your unit underperforms (whether it's your fault or not), you can find yourself even farther away from being a HC than you would've been otherwise.
This is the Giants, it's a well run org and a unit that has underperformed. DCs looking for work (potential DCs currently position coaches and established DCs) are walking into situations like these, that's why the position was open in the first place.
I don't think it's a question of how desirable the job is, it's a question of who the best available candidate is, and how well they fit with the existing organizational structure and personnel.
this isn't a very attractive DC vacancy. It's a 6-10 team with limited talent on defense, and two key cogs (JPP/Rolle) are free agents. Also, the head coach is making his last stand at 70 with a bright OC tabbed as a potential successor.
Totally agree with this. There is great uncertainty and no clear path to the next job for a DC coming here. This actually seems like a pretty decent option.
Yes, the uncertainty regarding coughlin makes this a bit tough for anyone who isn't signing on to increase their profile and visibility (like McAdoo did) or rehabilitate their profile (like Spags would)
Also, not to mention, he took the same personnel that Tim Lewis had and increased sacks by 21 sacks just by implementing his aggressive scheme. He made use of guys like Webster, Michael Johnson, and James Butler.
Excellent use of players and personnel, and his scheme took the same players and added 21 sacks to the 2006 total of Tim Lewis.
Remember when Tim Lewis wasn't the problem?
I never liked him or Hufangel hire. I have family in Pittsburgh that are die hard Steelers fans, and they had Lewis as a DC. As soon as we hired Lewis, they told me he would be an issue. I remember talking to them and reading articles in their media about Lewis, and I wasn't a fan of the hire.
It's amazing how Spags took that personnel and increase productivity of it. He basically took Webster who was yelled at by Lewis, and made him into a damn good CB.
I don't know what other people thought on here, but I hated the two initial hires by Coughlin when he came here in 2004.
The O gave up so many short fields and the Special Teams gave up so many points and short fields that the yardage ... which is the # that determines the ranking was skewed.
When the other team only has to go on a 25 yard TD drive... You didn't give up many yards... Not because you were good..
these guys have families they have to uproot, too. Yes, it's a nomadic lifestyle anyway you slice it, but joining a lame duck HC who's 70 years old might not be the best option, should other DC jobs come available. As others have pointed out, the Giants might be looking at McAdoo/Spags as a long-term partnership.
these guys have families they have to uproot, too. Yes, it's a nomadic lifestyle anyway you slice it, but joining a lame duck HC who's 70 years old might not be the best option, should other DC jobs come available. As others have pointed out, the Giants might be looking at McAdoo/Spags as a long-term partnership.
Most of these guys are aspiring to be HCs - with any luck, after a year or two (or more, depending on the situation) they're hoping to have performed well enough to get a promotion, which will once again uproot them.
I don't think there's anything about this spot that would be considered undesirable compared to other available DC positions, save those that might become available on playoff/contending teams where the DC was elevated to HC elsewhere. Anyone else with an open DC spot is going to have all sorts of warts to deal with.
Also, not to mention, he took the same personnel that Tim Lewis had and increased sacks by 21 sacks just by implementing his aggressive scheme. He made use of guys like Webster, Michael Johnson, and James Butler.
Excellent use of players and personnel, and his scheme took the same players and added 21 sacks to the 2006 total of Tim Lewis.
Remember when Tim Lewis wasn't the problem?
I never liked him or Hufangel hire. I have family in Pittsburgh that are die hard Steelers fans, and they had Lewis as a DC. As soon as we hired Lewis, they told me he would be an issue. I remember talking to them and reading articles in their media about Lewis, and I wasn't a fan of the hire.
It's amazing how Spags took that personnel and increase productivity of it. He basically took Webster who was yelled at by Lewis, and made him into a damn good CB.
I don't know what other people thought on here, but I hated the two initial hires by Coughlin when he came here in 2004.
Didn't mean it was you who said that. Just that there was a crew back then who stated the same line, it's a talent issue not a coaching issue.
I liked Spags and liked his style. Wouldn't mind him, but also wouldn't mind if they decided to go another route after they interview other candidates.
the Jim Johnson defense he ran most of the time in 07 & 08 sounds good to me. Once he left Coughlin went right back to his Jacksonville defense with Sheridan and Fewell and that's more out of date and broken than his offense was with Gilbride.
How folks come to the conclusion that McAdoo is a head coach material is beyond me, especially with no experience.
succesful post Giants. He may be
our best choice since Mara wont
$$$ for top coach. Keep in mind
we have some issues on offense too.
Eli can't move...oline sucks..need
rb who can catch...w/o 13 we
suck.. worse oline..wr..te..coaches
in league..ect.
Exactly.
2005 24
2006 25
2007 7 (Spags)
2008 5 (Spags)
2009 13
2010 7
2011 27
2012 31
2013 8 (shocking stat here)
2014 29
Someone already had to correct folks that thought Strahan and Osi played in 2008.
I'll be more than happy to welcome Spags back!
You're telling me there's no other qualified candidates out there? You're telling me the absolute best choice for our Defensive Coordinator Steve? Just seems lazy to me.
He's a guy that many Giants fans liked and he was successful here. Many of us loved he used the Jim Johnson defense and would try to pressure the opposition. I think there is a foundation in place so don't agree with anything lazy about wanting a coach we liked based on scheme and the historical success he had with the Giants.
He took the first HCing job that was offered. So can't fault him for that because you never know when you might get offered another one.
My memory is lousy, but didn't he walk away from a shot at the Redskins HC position?
I'd like to see them go in a different direction, but honestly, I don't know who the available candidates are. There's not one position coach or available proven DC sitting out there that I can point to and say 'why don't they go after him?'. I'd love to see them approach Fangio of SF, but he's traditionally been a 3-4 guy and we don't have the personnel to swing that.
I can only hope we could get Fangio.
Quote:
this isn't a very attractive DC vacancy. It's a 6-10 team with limited talent on defense, and two key cogs (JPP/Rolle) are free agents. Also, the head coach is making his last stand at 70 with a bright OC tabbed as a potential successor.
How folks come to the conclusion that McAdoo is a head coach material is beyond me, especially with no experience.
It comes from people thinking, despite all evidence to the contrary, that ownership has given even a second's thought to who will replace Coughlin when he's finished here. Like they were the ones who hired McAdoo, and not just that, but they hired him so they could, one day, promote him to HC, regardless of how he performed as an OC.
How many DC vacancies generally come with top notch defensive players in place?
Quote:
stick with a 43 defense, then I'd bring him back.
He took the first HCing job that was offered. So can't fault him for that because you never know when you might get offered another one.
My memory is lousy, but didn't he walk away from a shot at the Redskins HC position?
I am in the same boat. I am not sure about the redskins. Sounds familiar but not sure. I do remember Marc Ross turning down to interview with the Jets, lol.
I am not sure about the redskins. Perhaps it was the possibility of working with the owner. I don't fault him for taking the very first offer. Look how long it took for Bruce Arians to finally make it as a HC. He was basically retired and came back and had success and then got his HCing chance.
I feel bad for coaches that want their shot and a bad franchise is the first to offer it. Chud got fired after 1 year. You're screwing around with peoples lives and their families. Moving into a new city, and kids going to school, and then in 1 year uprooting that. I hate when those bad franchises do that to their coaches.
Quote:
stick with a 43 defense, then I'd bring him back.
He took the first HCing job that was offered. So can't fault him for that because you never know when you might get offered another one.
My memory is lousy, but didn't he walk away from a shot at the Redskins HC position?
Yup, but IIRC he was never actually offered the Redskins job, we gave him a raise to keep him here.
I remember him as having an excellent ability to dictate a suboptimal play to a QB on third down. My favorite defensive play the Giants have run in many years was the corner blitz on 3rd and 7+ that would cause the QB and WR to run a hot slant right into Kenny Phillips. The result was almost always a 6 yard gain and a punt.
If Spags is the guy it raises the importance of the safety position even more. Need smart players that will take good angles.
They need to overhaul the coaching staff, inject more youth and college element to up-level the speed and athleticism. Carroll and Harbaugh learned some things prior to coming from/back the college ranks. When you can't stop a college read option it is very telling of the coaching and the players and more important the overal APPROACH to the game.
While here, he was the DC of a Super Bowl winning team, and the 3rd ranked another season.
While here, he was beloved by the players and the fans.
Yes he stumbled as a HC, but lots of top assistants don't make it as the top guy. And some times, it takes a failure (See Bill Belicheck) to learn how to be successful as a head coach.
I'd love this choice and I bet the players would too.
1) He was a rookie DC when he was here...and did well in year one...most people get better if only from a "been here" sense of confidence that radiates
2) He was a LB coach prior to that...a long ignored aspect of the Giants in FO and coaching mindshare that in the new NFL has resonance.
3) He won here with TC...newbies cannot argue with the idea that he knows something
4) Being through the rigors of an NFL Season at HC/DC since then teaches you from your failures and successes...and teaches you how to reach a wider variety of players and helps you understand what works and what does not
5) Spags was liked by his players because he listened
6) One mark of a good DC is not what scheme he favors...I think that may be over rated...but what evidence there is that he got players to play better?...and within a year?
In one year, Spags got (now not all due to him...but getting out of the way is genius and so is overwhelming evidence he got the best out of what he had):
A great year from OSi (on the run and the pass defense...last guy to get OSi to play run? Remember his game against Walter Jones that year?)
A great year from Tuck
one more good year from Strahan
Ditto Robbins
The best years AP and Mitchell ever had
The best year Corey Webster ever had after a few bad ones
a big contribution from Sam Madison
Ditto young players and rookies like Aaron Ross and Alford
Ditto JAGS like McQuarters, James Butler, Dockery, Gibril Wilson.
In sum...young, old, stars and Jags at all three levels...Dl, LB and DB all were reached,played and felt a part of something big and worked hard and studied and got better and better. Against all different kinds of schemes and challenges as the season went on.
Accident? Maybe....but you would be arguing against a lot of data. Some credit (even if getting out of the way) has to be given.
if it is Spags? A lot of reasons to think its a good thing
fair point by the eagleman; any prospective DC who has designs on becoming HC in the near- or intermediate term will likely not take this vacancy (assuming, God-willing, it occurs) as a must-sign on opportunity. And this improves the odds on a hire such as Spags
McAdoo = Tomlin
Spags = LeBeau
Definitely worth another shot here in my estimation.
McAdoo = Tomlin
Spags = LeBeau
I think the long term success of the Steelers has never been far from John Mara's mind. Consistency works in the NFL. No doubt about it.
Remember when Michael Johnson looked like an emerging young NFL star? And Spags effect on Corey Webster alone justified his employment as Giants DC. I'd be really interested in seeing what Spags could do with Prince.
Incidentally, we made him the highest paid DC at the time, so we must've thought highly enough of him.
http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2008/Feb/07/br/hawaii80207042.html - ( New Window )
Also, not to mention, he took the same personnel that Tim Lewis had and increased sacks by 21 sacks just by implementing his aggressive scheme. He made use of guys like Webster, Michael Johnson, and James Butler.
Excellent use of players and personnel, and his scheme took the same players and added 21 sacks to the 2006 total of Tim Lewis.
McAdoo = Tomlin
Spags = LeBeau
I had this same thought. After all the criticism of Coughlin's "coaching tree," it'd be hilarious if his final OC and DC followed him with a successful run.
1) He was a rookie DC when he was here...and did well in year one...most people get better if only from a "been here" sense of confidence that radiates
2) He was a LB coach prior to that...a long ignored aspect of the Giants in FO and coaching mindshare that in the new NFL has resonance.
3) He won here with TC...newbies cannot argue with the idea that he knows something
4) Being through the rigors of an NFL Season at HC/DC since then teaches you from your failures and successes...and teaches you how to reach a wider variety of players and helps you understand what works and what does not
5) Spags was liked by his players because he listened
6) One mark of a good DC is not what scheme he favors...I think that may be over rated...but what evidence there is that he got players to play better?...and within a year?
In one year, Spags got (now not all due to him...but getting out of the way is genius and so is overwhelming evidence he got the best out of what he had):
A great year from OSi (on the run and the pass defense...last guy to get OSi to play run? Remember his game against Walter Jones that year?)
A great year from Tuck
one more good year from Strahan
Ditto Robbins
The best years AP and Mitchell ever had
The best year Corey Webster ever had after a few bad ones
a big contribution from Sam Madison
Ditto young players and rookies like Aaron Ross and Alford
Ditto JAGS like McQuarters, James Butler, Dockery, Gibril Wilson.
In sum...young, old, stars and Jags at all three levels...Dl, LB and DB all were reached,played and felt a part of something big and worked hard and studied and got better and better. Against all different kinds of schemes and challenges as the season went on.
Accident? Maybe....but you would be arguing against a lot of data. Some credit (even if getting out of the way) has to be given.
if it is Spags? A lot of reasons to think its a good thing
Excellent analysis!
2005 24
2006 25
2007 7 (Spags)
2008 5 (Spags)
2009 13
2010 7
2011 27
2012 31
2013 8 (shocking stat here)
2014 29
Someone already had to correct folks that thought Strahan and Osi played in 2008.
I'll be more than happy to welcome Spags back!
What's shocking is they finished 8th, but they played an overload of backup QB's.
That said, the arrival of Beason and return of Hill was huge. Both aren't there anymore.
It just makes too much sense. You need someone who can come here and win now with TC. Spags is the obvious candidate.
On top of that he is the only guy who really has looked the part since John Fox. I think of Spags' time here and I think of a teacher. He was always teaching. Even during a game you'd see him working with a DT on a swim move or a DB on hand placement. I just had so much confidence in him and you can see why the players did.
Final thought. BBI has some absolute puppets posting but we also have some very smart ones and usually BBI's collective assessment of someone is worth something. BBI loved Spags and I think that should count for something.
So... On the record... I'd take Spags back in a heartbeat.
Also, not to mention, he took the same personnel that Tim Lewis had and increased sacks by 21 sacks just by implementing his aggressive scheme. He made use of guys like Webster, Michael Johnson, and James Butler.
Excellent use of players and personnel, and his scheme took the same players and added 21 sacks to the 2006 total of Tim Lewis.
Remember when Tim Lewis wasn't the problem?
The Saints thing was a fucking fiasco from stem to stern long before Spags had anything to do with them. Their defense was light on talent to begin with. There was an interim head coach. The "leaders" of the defense were loyal to Williams and pretty much said before the season that they were going to ignore whoever replaced him. I have no idea why that clusterfuck is supposed to outweigh the outstanding work he did as the Giants DC.
I don't think it's a question of how desirable the job is, it's a question of who the best available candidate is, and how well they fit with the existing organizational structure and personnel.
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this isn't a very attractive DC vacancy. It's a 6-10 team with limited talent on defense, and two key cogs (JPP/Rolle) are free agents. Also, the head coach is making his last stand at 70 with a bright OC tabbed as a potential successor.
Totally agree with this. There is great uncertainty and no clear path to the next job for a DC coming here. This actually seems like a pretty decent option.
Yes, the uncertainty regarding coughlin makes this a bit tough for anyone who isn't signing on to increase their profile and visibility (like McAdoo did) or rehabilitate their profile (like Spags would)
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Good post.
Also, not to mention, he took the same personnel that Tim Lewis had and increased sacks by 21 sacks just by implementing his aggressive scheme. He made use of guys like Webster, Michael Johnson, and James Butler.
Excellent use of players and personnel, and his scheme took the same players and added 21 sacks to the 2006 total of Tim Lewis.
Remember when Tim Lewis wasn't the problem?
I never liked him or Hufangel hire. I have family in Pittsburgh that are die hard Steelers fans, and they had Lewis as a DC. As soon as we hired Lewis, they told me he would be an issue. I remember talking to them and reading articles in their media about Lewis, and I wasn't a fan of the hire.
It's amazing how Spags took that personnel and increase productivity of it. He basically took Webster who was yelled at by Lewis, and made him into a damn good CB.
I don't know what other people thought on here, but I hated the two initial hires by Coughlin when he came here in 2004.
When the other team only has to go on a 25 yard TD drive... You didn't give up many yards... Not because you were good..
Most of these guys are aspiring to be HCs - with any luck, after a year or two (or more, depending on the situation) they're hoping to have performed well enough to get a promotion, which will once again uproot them.
I don't think there's anything about this spot that would be considered undesirable compared to other available DC positions, save those that might become available on playoff/contending teams where the DC was elevated to HC elsewhere. Anyone else with an open DC spot is going to have all sorts of warts to deal with.
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In comment 12060251 AnishPatel said:
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Good post.
Also, not to mention, he took the same personnel that Tim Lewis had and increased sacks by 21 sacks just by implementing his aggressive scheme. He made use of guys like Webster, Michael Johnson, and James Butler.
Excellent use of players and personnel, and his scheme took the same players and added 21 sacks to the 2006 total of Tim Lewis.
Remember when Tim Lewis wasn't the problem?
I never liked him or Hufangel hire. I have family in Pittsburgh that are die hard Steelers fans, and they had Lewis as a DC. As soon as we hired Lewis, they told me he would be an issue. I remember talking to them and reading articles in their media about Lewis, and I wasn't a fan of the hire.
It's amazing how Spags took that personnel and increase productivity of it. He basically took Webster who was yelled at by Lewis, and made him into a damn good CB.
I don't know what other people thought on here, but I hated the two initial hires by Coughlin when he came here in 2004.
Didn't mean it was you who said that. Just that there was a crew back then who stated the same line, it's a talent issue not a coaching issue.
I liked Spags and liked his style. Wouldn't mind him, but also wouldn't mind if they decided to go another route after they interview other candidates.