22 guys on IR

for about a decade. I think they need to look at some of the healthier teams in the league and mimic their conditioning program. There is something going on. There's players that come here that have been healthy their whole careers and the same thing happens. That and Albany is cursed.

And many of the losses were very close games. I think we still have a serious lack of talent in certain areas but many of those injuries were indeed key injuries and just cause for a poor season.

I also find it ridiculous that coaches and ownership, and players can't officially use injuries as an excuse when everyone knows how much they can hurt a team though I understand why they don't.

We actually got down to having to start 3rd string depth at several positions because of those injuries so you can't just write them off and say they don't matter. They absolutely mattered. I'm not trying to imply we get into the playoffs without them but I think we easily get a few more wins.

Bottom line though was that the o-line did not get upgraded enough to give us a running game and our defense was really bad at LB and Safety and inconsistent on the line.

to see the IR stats for all the other teams. How many in total, how many starters, etc. Does anyone know where to find these stats?

I think that is part of the injury problem

Link - ( New Window )

is the OL starters were all healthy and played miserable against backups during the preseason games. They didn't block anybody and lost control of gaps on basic running plays all preseason and it carried into Sept. Then players started dropping to IR

they were learning a brand new offense.

first time against real competition - Eli was lining up different and dropping back differently.

I'm not sure the pre-season was an indicator at all of what the offense would/could become

Not even half.

the best talent the Giants do have was not anywhere near being on the field all at the same time at any point. I agree with the posters who think some sort of change is needed in the training and/or conditioning program. Somebody on the Giants should indeed be looking into conditioning and training programs on teams that don't seem to have too many injury problems. While some guys just are prone to injury, a look at something else can't hurt. Also, if a guy has a history of injury and or an already distressed body part, just don't draft them or sign them no matter what the upside may be. How many times has a guy been injured before the Giants got him and never improved after that?

Coach was pretty terms with his response and that he believed they addressed it with GPS etc. He said the soft tissue injuries declined but then broken bones increased. He said they believe they have the best medical staff in the league.

While health and nutrition and recovery do fall under the medical umbrella I doubt they have any facts to stand on regarding the belief that they have the best staff in the league.

In comment 12064709 Giants2012 said:

Quote:

is the OL starters were all healthy and played miserable against backups during the preseason games. They didn't block anybody and lost control of gaps on basic running plays all preseason and it carried into Sept. Then players started dropping to IR

Absolutely agree. You can't put any of the o-line injuries as an excuse for the o-line problems. They were weak from the start even with all their starters. JR didn't come close to fixing the line this year.

and TC has not fixed it as was expected. Not sure what the issue is. As I look back to Parcells, we did not have this issue then and we played on a much worse artificial surface.

I do think the Giants training staff have not done a good job of adjusting to modern techniques especially with the reduced time available as a result of the new CBA. Clearly, Philly and some other teams seem to have found a better way. If I was to spend any money this off season it would be at this level. Perhaps hiring some kind of consulting firm, if they haven't already, or looking at a new way of training as per the Eagles or Patriots. But the Giants need to adapt and it would appear they have not done so.

To me, this might be the most important issue facing the team...health. How much different would our season have been had we had Thurmond, Prince, a healthy DRC, Cruz and others. Is it just bad luck or is it connected to something else? If other teams have much less of this kind of thing, I think you need to adapt or you will be left behind.

To this point in time, the Giants have not adapted and they must do so going forward or else pay the price with continued injuries and guys going on IR.

My recollection is that many of the players were marginal or would have been cut in training camp.

the new players, and several (projected) starters?

Excuses every year. And jack shit is done about it

Strength and conditioning staff, always seem to get a pass

a valid "excuse" and a very big reason for the 6-10 record....hmmm, would the team have been better with Beason, Thurmond, Prince, Mcbride, Schwartz, Taylor, Jennings, Cruz etc? Of course it would have....and you can lump Wil Hill in there as well....and probably a few more guys I'm forgetting. Spare me the "next man up" talk and the "what about the Lions game" crap....anyone who refuses to see this has their head in the sand IMO.

Injured Reserve:

70 Troy Kropog OT 6-6 295 28 2014/UFA 2016
48 Travis Howard CB 6-1 200 25 2013/UFA 2016
22 David Wilson RB 5-9 205 23 2012/1 2016
18 Marcus Harris WR 6-1 187 25 2013/UFA 2016
30 Cooper Taylor S 6-4 228 24 2013/5 2017
79 Rogers Gaines OT 6-6 329 25 2014/Waivers 2016
12 Jerrel Jernigan WR 5-8 189 25 2011/3 2015
24 Walter Thurmond CB 5-11 190 27 2014/UFA 2015
80 Victor Cruz WR 6-0 204 28 2010/UDFA 2019
38 Trumaine McBride CB 5-9 185 29 2013/UFA 2016
52 Jon Beason LB 6-0 232 29 2013/Trade 2017
20 Prince Amukamara CB 6-0 207 25 2011/1 2016
29 Michael Cox RB 6-1 222 26 2013/7 2017
33 Peyton Hillis RB 6-2 250 28 2013/UFA 2016
74 Geoff Schwartz OG 6-6 340 28 2014/UFA 2018
68 Adam Snyder OG 6-6 325 32 2014/UFA 2015
94 Mathias Kiwanuka DE 6-5 267 31 2006/1 2016
91 Robert Ayers DE 6-3 275 29 2014/UFA 2016
97 Terrell Manning LB 6-2 237 24 2014/UFA 2016
57 Jacquian Williams LB 6-3 224 26 2011/6 2015
73 James Brewer OT 6-6 330 27 2011/4 2015

In comment 12064709 Giants2012 said:

Quote:

is the OL starters were all healthy and played miserable against backups during the preseason games. They didn't block anybody and lost control of gaps on basic running plays all preseason and it carried into Sept. Then players started dropping to IR

Not sure if a single bit of this post was accurate. Beatty missed the start of training camp and the first preseason game due to recovery from his broken leg. Schwartz went down mid-preseason with essentially a season ending injury. They were shuffling in Brandon Mosely and others throughout the preseason. I don't think it was until week 1 where we actually saw what would be starting 5 actually play a game together, and that starting 5 was supposed to include Schwartz so yea, I would say the injuries played somewhat of a role.

was a tremendous loss.

In comment 12064769 PEEJ said:

Quote:

Injured Reserve: 70 Troy Kropog OT 6-6 295 28 2014/UFA 2016 48 Travis Howard CB 6-1 200 25 2013/UFA 2016 22 David Wilson RB 5-9 205 23 2012/1 2016 18 Marcus Harris WR 6-1 187 25 2013/UFA 2016 30 Cooper Taylor S 6-4 228 24 2013/5 2017 79 Rogers Gaines OT 6-6 329 25 2014/Waivers 2016 12 Jerrel Jernigan WR 5-8 189 25 2011/3 2015 24 Walter Thurmond CB 5-11 190 27 2014/UFA 2015 80 Victor Cruz WR 6-0 204 28 2010/UDFA 2019 38 Trumaine McBride CB 5-9 185 29 2013/UFA 2016 52 Jon Beason LB 6-0 232 29 2013/Trade 2017 20 Prince Amukamara CB 6-0 207 25 2011/1 2016 29 Michael Cox RB 6-1 222 26 2013/7 2017 33 Peyton Hillis RB 6-2 250 28 2013/UFA 2016 74 Geoff Schwartz OG 6-6 340 28 2014/UFA 2018 68 Adam Snyder OG 6-6 325 32 2014/UFA 2015 94 Mathias Kiwanuka DE 6-5 267 31 2006/1 2016 91 Robert Ayers DE 6-3 275 29 2014/UFA 2016 97 Terrell Manning LB 6-2 237 24 2014/UFA 2016 57 Jacquian Williams LB 6-3 224 26 2011/6 2015 73 James Brewer OT 6-6 330 27 2011/4 2015

Only 3 of those players at most would be considered in the top 10 to 20% at their position.

In comment 12064773 Steve in Greenwich said:

Quote:

In comment 12064709 Giants2012 said: Quote: is the OL starters were all healthy and played miserable against backups during the preseason games. They didn't block anybody and lost control of gaps on basic running plays all preseason and it carried into Sept. Then players started dropping to IR Not sure if a single bit of this post was accurate. Beatty missed the start of training camp and the first preseason game due to recovery from his broken leg. Schwartz went down mid-preseason with essentially a season ending injury. They were shuffling in Brandon Mosely and others throughout the preseason. I don't think it was until week 1 where we actually saw what would be starting 5 actually play a game together, and that starting 5 was supposed to include Schwartz so yea, I would say the injuries played somewhat of a role.

And something that people just can't seem to grasp...Pugh played hurt for most of the season. He was not "healthy" by any stretch of the imagination.

In comment 12064779 BigBlueinChicago said:

Quote:

In comment 12064769 PEEJ said: Quote: Injured Reserve: 70 Troy Kropog OT 6-6 295 28 2014/UFA 2016 48 Travis Howard CB 6-1 200 25 2013/UFA 2016 22 David Wilson RB 5-9 205 23 2012/1 2016 18 Marcus Harris WR 6-1 187 25 2013/UFA 2016 30 Cooper Taylor S 6-4 228 24 2013/5 2017 79 Rogers Gaines OT 6-6 329 25 2014/Waivers 2016 12 Jerrel Jernigan WR 5-8 189 25 2011/3 2015 24 Walter Thurmond CB 5-11 190 27 2014/UFA 2015 80 Victor Cruz WR 6-0 204 28 2010/UDFA 2019 38 Trumaine McBride CB 5-9 185 29 2013/UFA 2016 52 Jon Beason LB 6-0 232 29 2013/Trade 2017 20 Prince Amukamara CB 6-0 207 25 2011/1 2016 29 Michael Cox RB 6-1 222 26 2013/7 2017 33 Peyton Hillis RB 6-2 250 28 2013/UFA 2016 74 Geoff Schwartz OG 6-6 340 28 2014/UFA 2018 68 Adam Snyder OG 6-6 325 32 2014/UFA 2015 94 Mathias Kiwanuka DE 6-5 267 31 2006/1 2016 91 Robert Ayers DE 6-3 275 29 2014/UFA 2016 97 Terrell Manning LB 6-2 237 24 2014/UFA 2016 57 Jacquian Williams LB 6-3 224 26 2011/6 2015 73 James Brewer OT 6-6 330 27 2011/4 2015 Only 3 of those players at most would be considered in the top 10 to 20% at their position.

What's your point exactly?

In comment 12064773 Steve in Greenwich said:

Quote:

In comment 12064709 Giants2012 said: Quote: is the OL starters were all healthy and played miserable against backups during the preseason games. They didn't block anybody and lost control of gaps on basic running plays all preseason and it carried into Sept. Then players started dropping to IR Not sure if a single bit of this post was accurate. Beatty missed the start of training camp and the first preseason game due to recovery from his broken leg. Schwartz went down mid-preseason with essentially a season ending injury. They were shuffling in Brandon Mosely and others throughout the preseason. I don't think it was until week 1 where we actually saw what would be starting 5 actually play a game together, and that starting 5 was supposed to include Schwartz so yea, I would say the injuries played somewhat of a role.

Yeah, they never put the starters out there and they blocked well. Glad your post is so accurate.

In comment 12064788 Giants2012 said:

Quote:

In comment 12064773 Steve in Greenwich said: Quote: In comment 12064709 Giants2012 said: Quote: is the OL starters were all healthy and played miserable against backups during the preseason games. They didn't block anybody and lost control of gaps on basic running plays all preseason and it carried into Sept. Then players started dropping to IR Not sure if a single bit of this post was accurate. Beatty missed the start of training camp and the first preseason game due to recovery from his broken leg. Schwartz went down mid-preseason with essentially a season ending injury. They were shuffling in Brandon Mosely and others throughout the preseason. I don't think it was until week 1 where we actually saw what would be starting 5 actually play a game together, and that starting 5 was supposed to include Schwartz so yea, I would say the injuries played somewhat of a role. Yeah, they never put the starters out there and they blocked well. Glad your post is so accurate.

Agree with Steve as G2012 seems to be suggesting that they'd be 6-10 even with all the players listed being healthy as the Oline had zero injuries and was THAT bad....which is just plain wrong anyway you slice it.

In comment 12064809 Wonderphil11 said:

Quote:

In comment 12064788 Giants2012 said: Quote: In comment 12064773 Steve in Greenwich said: Quote: In comment 12064709 Giants2012 said: Quote: is the OL starters were all healthy and played miserable against backups during the preseason games. They didn't block anybody and lost control of gaps on basic running plays all preseason and it carried into Sept. Then players started dropping to IR Not sure if a single bit of this post was accurate. Beatty missed the start of training camp and the first preseason game due to recovery from his broken leg. Schwartz went down mid-preseason with essentially a season ending injury. They were shuffling in Brandon Mosely and others throughout the preseason. I don't think it was until week 1 where we actually saw what would be starting 5 actually play a game together, and that starting 5 was supposed to include Schwartz so yea, I would say the injuries played somewhat of a role. Yeah, they never put the starters out there and they blocked well. Glad your post is so accurate. Agree with Steve as G2012 seems to be suggesting that they'd be 6-10 even with all the players listed being healthy as the Oline had zero injuries and was THAT bad....which is just plain wrong anyway you slice it.

I see our readers came out today. The players were healthy during the preseason and the OL was a disaster. I acknowledged the IR issue yet the IR issue wasn't the excuse during the preseason. Learn to read

In comment 12064779 BigBlueinChicago said:

Quote:

In comment 12064769 PEEJ said: Quote: Injured Reserve: 70 Troy Kropog OT 6-6 295 28 2014/UFA 2016 48 Travis Howard CB 6-1 200 25 2013/UFA 2016 22 David Wilson RB 5-9 205 23 2012/1 2016 18 Marcus Harris WR 6-1 187 25 2013/UFA 2016 30 Cooper Taylor S 6-4 228 24 2013/5 2017 79 Rogers Gaines OT 6-6 329 25 2014/Waivers 2016 12 Jerrel Jernigan WR 5-8 189 25 2011/3 2015 24 Walter Thurmond CB 5-11 190 27 2014/UFA 2015 80 Victor Cruz WR 6-0 204 28 2010/UDFA 2019 38 Trumaine McBride CB 5-9 185 29 2013/UFA 2016 52 Jon Beason LB 6-0 232 29 2013/Trade 2017 20 Prince Amukamara CB 6-0 207 25 2011/1 2016 29 Michael Cox RB 6-1 222 26 2013/7 2017 33 Peyton Hillis RB 6-2 250 28 2013/UFA 2016 74 Geoff Schwartz OG 6-6 340 28 2014/UFA 2018 68 Adam Snyder OG 6-6 325 32 2014/UFA 2015 94 Mathias Kiwanuka DE 6-5 267 31 2006/1 2016 91 Robert Ayers DE 6-3 275 29 2014/UFA 2016 97 Terrell Manning LB 6-2 237 24 2014/UFA 2016 57 Jacquian Williams LB 6-3 224 26 2011/6 2015 73 James Brewer OT 6-6 330 27 2011/4 2015 Only 3 of those players at most would be considered in the top 10 to 20% at their position.

If you dont think that Schwartz, Beason, Thurmond, Wilson, Ayers and Prince would have helped this team significantly, no matter what they are ranked at their position (ridiculous point to begin with), than I dont know what to tell you.

Furthermore, I think that most, if not all of those players were ranked in the Top 20 at their positions per PFF last year or to start this year.

In comment 12064828 Giants2012 said:

Quote:

In comment 12064809 Wonderphil11 said: Quote: In comment 12064788 Giants2012 said: Quote: In comment 12064773 Steve in Greenwich said: Quote: In comment 12064709 Giants2012 said: Quote: is the OL starters were all healthy and played miserable against backups during the preseason games. They didn't block anybody and lost control of gaps on basic running plays all preseason and it carried into Sept. Then players started dropping to IR Not sure if a single bit of this post was accurate. Beatty missed the start of training camp and the first preseason game due to recovery from his broken leg. Schwartz went down mid-preseason with essentially a season ending injury. They were shuffling in Brandon Mosely and others throughout the preseason. I don't think it was until week 1 where we actually saw what would be starting 5 actually play a game together, and that starting 5 was supposed to include Schwartz so yea, I would say the injuries played somewhat of a role. Yeah, they never put the starters out there and they blocked well. Glad your post is so accurate. Agree with Steve as G2012 seems to be suggesting that they'd be 6-10 even with all the players listed being healthy as the Oline had zero injuries and was THAT bad....which is just plain wrong anyway you slice it. I see our readers came out today. The players were healthy during the preseason and the OL was a disaster. I acknowledged the IR issue yet the IR issue wasn't the excuse during the preseason. Learn to read

Preseason?!?! Seriously? That's your argument....a preseason with new players, new system, etc....this is your measuring stick? C'mon

In comment 12064828 Giants2012 said:

Quote:

In comment 12064809 Wonderphil11 said: Quote: In comment 12064788 Giants2012 said: Quote: In comment 12064773 Steve in Greenwich said: Quote: In comment 12064709 Giants2012 said: Quote: is the OL starters were all healthy and played miserable against backups during the preseason games. They didn't block anybody and lost control of gaps on basic running plays all preseason and it carried into Sept. Then players started dropping to IR Agree with Steve as G2012 seems to be suggesting that they'd be 6-10 even with all the players listed being healthy as the Oline had zero injuries and was THAT bad....which is just plain wrong anyway you slice it. I see our readers came out today. The players were healthy during the preseason and the OL was a disaster. I acknowledged the IR issue yet the IR issue wasn't the excuse during the preseason. Learn to read

The OL, which missed its most significant FA acquisition wasn't even the unit that was most significantly affected by injury, so I am not sure what the point is.

The defense was the unit that was hit hardest by injury, and is what ultimately what led to this years demise. The OL wasn't good, but I would say that the defense had a lot more to do with the Giants losing games than the OL did.

Here is a breakdown of the injury types the Giant players suffered in 2014 that led to going on IR

1. Hillis / Concussion
2. Williams / Concussion
3. Brewer / Concussion
4. Schwartz / Ankle
5. T. Manning / Ankle
6. Kiwi / Knee
7. Snyder / Knee
8. Cruz / Knee
9. Howard / Knee
10. Kropag / Foot
11. Jernigan / Foot
12. Beason / Foot
13. Taylor / Foot
14. Cox / Broken Leg
15. McBride / Thumb
16. Wilson / Neck
17. Harris / Shoulder
18. Thurmond / Torn Pec
19. Ayers / Torn Pec
20. Prince / Torn Bicep
21. Gaines / ? mystery

In comment 12064773 Steve in Greenwich said:

Quote:

In comment 12064709 Giants2012 said: Quote: is the OL starters were all healthy and played miserable against backups during the preseason games. They didn't block anybody and lost control of gaps on basic running plays all preseason and it carried into Sept. Then players started dropping to IR Not sure if a single bit of this post was accurate. Beatty missed the start of training camp and the first preseason game due to recovery from his broken leg. Schwartz went down mid-preseason with essentially a season ending injury. They were shuffling in Brandon Mosely and others throughout the preseason. I don't think it was until week 1 where we actually saw what would be starting 5 actually play a game together, and that starting 5 was supposed to include Schwartz so yea, I would say the injuries played somewhat of a role.

Schwartz was inconsistent all year. He was a decent player only when measured against the rest of the pathetic talent on the o-line except for Pugh who seemed to digress this year though some say that may be due to him playing hurt. Beatty was better than in 13 but still very inconsistent. Yes, it hurt a little when Schwartz went out but I don't think it hurt enough to say the o-line would have been good without the injuries. Our o-line sucked with all the starters in. Take all our best starters on the line and we still can't establish a running game against any decent team.

In comment 12064832 gmen9892 said:

Quote:

If you dont think that Schwartz, Beason, Thurmond, Wilson, Ayers and Prince would have helped this team significantly, no matter what they are ranked at their position (ridiculous point to begin with), than I dont know what to tell you. Furthermore, I think that most, if not all of those players were ranked in the Top 20 at their positions per PFF last year or to start this year.

You don't have to tell anyone anything. Please provide your evidence from PFF that says those players were in the top 20% percent.

The Giants relied on Beason, an often injured player, to play the whole season. Is it to anyone's surprise he got hurt again? This should not have come as a surprise. And they want to rely on him again next year? If he goes down again, will it be a shock to anyone?

Schwartz has played one full 16 season now in the last 4 years. Let's not make him out to be John Hannah.

Would they all have helped the team? Yes. They would have helped them finish 8-8 instead of 6-10. They would not have won 10+ games and made the playoffs with those guys back despite the sudden revisionist history that some seem to be having.

I wrote in August, a fully healthy roster wins 8-9 games, imo.

The most impactful injuries were at CB. Given how poorly we matched up with good or better teams in 2014, and figuring in the injury losses, I still see a roster that would've maxed out around 8-9 wins, imo.

Even when healthy, this roster has significant needs for upgrades at : OL, TE, RB, DE, DT, LB, S.

In comment 12064870 JonC said:

Quote:

I wrote in August, a fully healthy roster wins 8-9 games, imo. The most impactful injuries were at CB. Given how poorly we matched up with good or better teams in 2014, and figuring in the injury losses, I still see a roster that would've maxed out around 8-9 wins, imo. Even when healthy, this roster has significant needs for upgrades at : OL, TE, RB, DE, DT, LB, S.

It's no surprise that this year was considered a rebuilding year. I think what most hear are trying to say is that with a decently healthy team, 8-9 wins in a rebuilding year is not that bad. It's obvious that this team still has a ton of holes, but I do not think we are that far off, talent-wise if the health is there.

but some fans tend to overrate their own, so when the OP suggests the injuries were "huge", it sounds more like his belief was this was potentially a playoff team with a higher ceiling.

With that, I definitely disagree. There's still significant talent required, especially on defense, and they desperately need to learn how to close out games.

In comment 12064876 gmen9892 said:

Quote:

In comment 12064870 JonC said: Quote: I wrote in August, a fully healthy roster wins 8-9 games, imo. The most impactful injuries were at CB. Given how poorly we matched up with good or better teams in 2014, and figuring in the injury losses, I still see a roster that would've maxed out around 8-9 wins, imo. Even when healthy, this roster has significant needs for upgrades at : OL, TE, RB, DE, DT, LB, S. It's no surprise that this year was considered a rebuilding year. I think what most hear are trying to say is that with a decently healthy team, 8-9 wins in a rebuilding year is not that bad. It's obvious that this team still has a ton of holes, but I do not think we are that far off, talent-wise if the health is there.

Well said, I'd personally put it at 9-10 wins as Cruz, Prince, Beason and Thurmond alone would make a significant impact IMO....and no one is saying the Oline is fine or there aren't many holes to fill on this team.

In comment 12064887 JonC said:

Quote:

but some fans tend to overrate their own, so when the OP suggests the injuries were "huge", it sounds more like his belief was this was potentially a playoff team with a higher ceiling. With that, I definitely disagree. There's still significant talent required, especially on defense, and they desperately need to learn how to close out games.

Agree, I think the OP was more reacting to the fact that there seems to be more people who dismiss the injuries outright due to the bad Oline and other deficiencies than there are people who ignore those deficiencies and put it all on the IR "luck" factor.....the reality is that both are legitimate reasons.

Philadelphia, seattle, Indianapolis, dallas torched us.

Absolute blowouts. Really hard to label those games as injury games.

The one dallas game and SF game were close but it was over by that point. anyway.

We also started the season.completely healthy and got whacked.

no one is mentioning how Jennings was a top rushing the first quarter of the season and then was injured for weeks and was never fully healthy after. And he was a huge part of the passing game in the beginning. Oh, and snee was forced to retire.

In comment 12064708 Steve in South Jersey said:

Quote:

I think that is part of the injury problem Link - ( New Window )

That is a critical stat, thanks for the link. With the quicker tempo, it definitely makes sense. I am also

Looking at 22 of those guys, how many were irreplaceable?

Beason, Cruz, and Prince? I think most of us knew Wilson was going to be a no go, and shouldn't have been counted on....Schwartz was not playing well before he was injured, and Richburg did a fair job of replacing him....

In comment 12064916 twostepgiants said:

Quote:

Philadelphia, seattle, Indianapolis, dallas torched us. Absolute blowouts. Really hard to label those games as injury games. The one dallas game and SF game were close but it was over by that point. anyway. We also started the season.completely healthy and got whacked.

We were beating both the Seahawks and Cowboys deep into the second half in both games. Wouldn't call that getting torched. Seahawks final score was not indicative of how close the game was.

That injuries are supposed to derail a team's season.

In comment 12064828 Giants2012 said:

Quote:

I see our readers came out today. The players were healthy during the preseason and the OL was a disaster. I acknowledged the IR issue yet the IR issue wasn't the excuse during the preseason. Learn to read

All I was saying was that your comment that the o-line in the preseason was healthy was completely incorrect. Beatty missed the first few weeks of training camp and preseason game 1 with his leg injury leaving Charles Brown in to start game one. Richburg only played with the two's the entire preseason. Schwartz went out week three of the preseason with his injury. The starting unit never played a drive together with their future starting 5 until week one of the regular season. You said in your original post they were all healthy and played poorly which was wrong. I believe I read your comment correctly, it was just incorrect.

In comment 12064708 Steve in South Jersey said:

Quote:

I think that is part of the injury problem Link - ( New Window )

And Steve with the winner.

Also, Giants signed a lot of guys coming off injuries, looking for a bargain. Given their injury histories, you can't be surprised that guys like Schwartz and Beason went down.

In comment 12064843 Wonderphil11 said:

Quote:

In comment 1206482 Preseason?!?! Seriously? That's your argument....a preseason with new players, new system, etc....this is your measuring stick? C'mon

When starting NFL offensive lineman can't maintain gap control against opponents who were cut weeks later, i think that says a lot. Perhaps your measuring stick feels a new system is a good enough excuse for absolute incompetence despite inferior opposition. Perhaps you're one of the few who were blind sided by the play in Sept which was reflective of the OL's ability which carried through the season against the better teams.

What was your messuring stick? November? Com'on yourself

In comment 12065014 lawguy9801 said:

Quote:

That injuries are supposed to derail a team's season.

as of 2 weeks ago, the Cards had 8 players total on IR. We lost more corners on IR than the Cards are missing from their entire defense including reserves.

In comment 12065186 Steve in Greenwich said:

Quote:

In comment 12064828 Giants2012 said: Quote: I see our readers came out today. The players were healthy during the preseason and the OL was a disaster. I acknowledged the IR issue yet the IR issue wasn't the excuse during the preseason. Learn to read All I was saying was that your comment that the o-line in the preseason was healthy was completely incorrect. Beatty missed the first few weeks of training camp and preseason game 1 with his leg injury leaving Charles Brown in to start game one. Richburg only played with the two's the entire preseason. Schwartz went out week three of the preseason with his injury. The starting unit never played a drive together with their future starting 5 until week one of the regular season. You said in your original post they were all healthy and played poorly which was wrong. I believe I read your comment correctly, it was just incorrect.

Preseaon game 2 against Pitt featured Pugh, Schwartz, Walton and Richburg out there. The blocking was horrendous during pass blocking. If your position is that Beatty wasn't in, IMO, that's as weak as the OL was. Fact is, the OL was a mess prior to these IR issues and all the starters had snaps and their gap control was miserable. This delusion the OL was a reflection of IR just isn't true b/c the individuals lost battles at the POA often during the preseason and it carried into the regular season. Thank goodness for Beckam.

This OL needs at two more starters or one and move Richburg to center IMO.

In comment 12065449 HomerJones45 said:

Quote:

In comment 12065014 lawguy9801 said: Quote: That injuries are supposed to derail a team's season. as of 2 weeks ago, the Cards had 8 players total on IR. We lost more corners on IR than the Cards are missing from their entire defense including reserves.

They lost Daryl Washington to suspension, Docket on the DL and their QB yet made the playoffs. That's a great effort.

In comment 12064863 nicky43 said:

Quote:

In comment 12064773 Steve in Greenwich said: Quote: In comment 12064709 Giants2012 said: Quote: is the OL starters were all healthy and played miserable against backups during the preseason games. They didn't block anybody and lost control of gaps on basic running plays all preseason and it carried into Sept. Then players started dropping to IR Not sure if a single bit of this post was accurate. Beatty missed the start of training camp and the first preseason game due to recovery from his broken leg. Schwartz went down mid-preseason with essentially a season ending injury. They were shuffling in Brandon Mosely and others throughout the preseason. I don't think it was until week 1 where we actually saw what would be starting 5 actually play a game together, and that starting 5 was supposed to include Schwartz so yea, I would say the injuries played somewhat of a role. Schwartz was inconsistent all year. He was a decent player only when measured against the rest of the pathetic talent on the o-line except for Pugh who seemed to digress this year though some say that may be due to him playing hurt. Beatty was better than in 13 but still very inconsistent. Yes, it hurt a little when Schwartz went out but I don't think it hurt enough to say the o-line would have been good without the injuries. Our o-line sucked with all the starters in. Take all our best starters on the line and we still can't establish a running game against any decent team.

Wasn't Schwartz out all season came back for 2 games and then went out again. You don't think having him healthy for the whole season would have made a difference?

He actually played pretty well the two games he played. This off season they have to look at the quality of performance of Walton, Jerry and Beatty.

that's why Giants could sign him cheap

i still think it was a good signing because of the risk/reward ratio. But you can't act like it was some stroke of incredible bad luck when he went down

or addition by subtraction (Kiwi)

the one thing that was was tough was having so many injuries in the secondary, effectively turning a strength into a liability.

other than that, Giants injury situation was certainly within the range of expectation

TEAM INJURED RESERVE COUNT

New York Giants - 20
Seattle Seahawks - 16
Indianapolis Colts - 12
Jacksonville Jaguars - 11
Kansas City Chiefs - 11
Miami Dolphins - 11
San Diego Chargers - 11
Baltimore Ravens - 10
New Orleans Saints - 10
San Francisco 49ers - 10
Atlanta Falcons - 9
Dallas Cowboys - 9
Oakland Raiders - 9
Tennessee Titans - 9
Buffalo Bills - 8
Carolina Panthers - 8
Cleveland Browns - 8
Detroit Lions - 8
Green Bay Packers - 8
New England Patriots - 8
St. Louis Rams - 8
Washington Redskins - 8
Arizona Cardinals - 7
Cincinnati Bengals - 7
Houston Texans - 7
Minnesota Vikings - 7
Philadelphia Eagles - 7
Chicago Bears - 6
New York Jets - 6
Tampa Bay Buccaneers - 6
Denver Broncos - 5
Pittsburgh Steelers - 3
lonk - ( New Window )

Three of the guys we lost were guys that we actually counted on and were worth a damn. Ayers played most of the season - he'd be a fourth but we were already out of it when he joined IR.

Compare that to other teams and it's right on par. Other teams have better depth, strength elsewhere and/or the coaching to overcome it. We did not. We were a 6-10 team - period. We deserved to be 6-10. Unless there are major talent and coaching upgrades next year, we'll be around 6-10 again. At best, the dreaded 8-8. That's it.

Can't believe some are falling for that lame ass company line. I just hope it PR speak and the right moves are made regardless of what is said publicly.

Utter bullshit if it's not just PR speak...

if Safety Will Hill, OG Geoff Schwarzt, WR Beckham, LB Beason, and our corners had stayed healthy all year. Our IR list would be NFL "average" instead of league's worst. Schwartz would have helped run game, Beckham is just sick good and DB's would have shut down many big plays.