I see the holes in this team just like everyone and Reese and Ross are behind it. True. But starting in the 2013 draft and more so in the 2014 draft, they have changed from getting players with "potential" to getting players who "produce". Now they draft more team captains and high quality people like Andre Williams. Players like Jacquian Williams, Jayron Hosley and Adrien Robinson aren't picked anymore. The change over will take a few years until these younger players start taking over the team but in the meantime, sit tight and watch the team grow.
Also, Reese picked THE best player in the draft this year and people on BBI want him fired. Really? Getting players isn't easy and when the Giants find someone who can pick players, you stick with them until it is painfully clear that they can't achieve the winning results you are looking for. Reese and Ross are NOT at that point. They are simply changing their approach and it will take some time to make it work.
I have been watching the Giants for over 30 years so "waiting" for a plan to bear fruit is easier for me than it might be for some of the younger fans but hang in there, the Giants ARE on the right path.
This. The last two drafts have shown promise, but 2008 - 2012 we're wretched.
where we've really missed is the later rounds, how many LB and OL have we drafted that haven't panned out? pretty much the only OL that are worth a damn are usually from the first 2 rounds. anything after that have been non contributors
same goes for LBs, remember in '11 when we thought we had a solid group of LBs for years to come? and we picked them up as UDFA? Greg Jones, Paysinger, Herzlich, and Jwill drafted late? how has that turned out ?
the BPA philosophy only works if the BPA is an impact player, drafting Prince in 11 was a reach because we had so many other needs (OL!) and at that time didn't need a CB.
ODB was a home run and that could be Ross/Reese's legacy but we still need to build around him now. I expect them to go heavily on the Oline and Dlines this year in the Draft and look for them to grab a safety early too!
2) emotional abuse in childhood and
3) a lack of knowledge about drafting success and hit rates in the NFL.
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The FA moves largely haven't worked out well. The talent on the field this year was way below acceptable before anyone got hurt. Reese and Ross assembled this roster. That's why people were and are upset. You can't just look at the past two years.
This. The last two drafts have shown promise, but 2008 - 2012 we're wretched.
2009 was wretched? Really?
He likely depended on those two guys, plus Beatty who at least resembles a starting o lineman, to make up the majority of the line for seasons to come. Instead the Giants needed to replace basically the whole line.
Then his seemingly odd way of punting entire positions. Linebacker foremost and Tight End to a lesser degree. The guy just put no priority on finding long term starting caliber guys for those units. It is strange and I think his biggest weakness.
TC's power run philosophy has been begging for a real old school two way tight end and he has not provided a long term solution. On D, the real weakness on this team for years, the front can not hold up since multiple linebacker slots are filled by guys who would get no burn on another winning NFL team.
Finally, to me there is also the case that he was allowed to wade into the shallow end of the pool. He inherited a squad with a franchise QB (hardest thing to find in sports) and a winning coach (second hardest thing to find in the NFL) he never had to find those key components on his own. The foundation for succsess was there.
On the plus side, the guy is aces jn the first round. I do not want to jinx anything, but I am excited to see what he can do with a top ten pick.
I keep hear people talking about the 2008 draft like it was a terrible draft class. The players got hurt which prevented them from still being here or in the league but it was a very good class especially considering where they were picking. Phillips, Terrel Thomas, Manningham all were serious contributors and Goff outperformed being a late 5th round pick until he got injured. Kehl (who managed to have a bit of a career elsewhere), Woodson and Henderson didn't work out. But that's a pretty good draft.
Just because the players are no longer here mostly due to injury. Each of our first 5 picks blew a knee, Henderson did his ankle in the first pre-season game went on IR and ended up bouncing around the league for a couple of years (and was a makeweight in a trade for a 5th round pick) so he obviously had some talent.
Paying David Bass big money when he wasn't even that good?
Failing to resign Martellus Bennet. He's become a great TE, and was great for that year with us.
Failure to shore up the offensive line before the start of the season.
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In comment 12065584 Bold Ruler said:
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The FA moves largely haven't worked out well. The talent on the field this year was way below acceptable before anyone got hurt. Reese and Ross assembled this roster. That's why people were and are upset. You can't just look at the past two years.
This. The last two drafts have shown promise, but 2008 - 2012 we're wretched.
2009 was wretched? Really?
We had nine picks. Nicks and Beatty were the only two who ever contributed. And they were first and second round picks. The other seven were awful, including Sintim, Beckum, and Barden.
They were bad breaks because Mosley and Brewer and Boothe(who was gotten rid of for whatever reason) were our backups
That's a whole other issue -- the Giants training staff. One that's resulted or led the league or been near it in injuries for years.
DRC was a good signing. Rolle is now long in the tooth. He was rated as one of the worst 5 safeties in football by PFF.
2009: Nicks and Beatty, and nothing else.
2010: JPP and Joseph, and nothing else.
2011: Prince and nothing else.
2012: Randle (maybe) and nothing else, except a little from Kuhn.
Even excluding Chad Jones, that is a whole bunch of picks from the third round on that produced nothing.
Not resigning Bennett is a head scratcher.
Not resigning Bennett is a head scratcher.
I suspect it has to do with that huge contract he got from the Bears. Kudos to him for picking up Bennett from the Cowboys scrapheap.
It's a major complaint I have with the views of many fans...
- Are we to believe that the front office is incapable of self scouting and diagnosing problems?
- Are we more interested in "holding people accountable" (firing them) or in winning? Because the signs point to things being turned around by the people in house.
I saw Eli get pummeled in the 2011 NFC Championship Game. The line has been a liability ever since. The current DL can't get to the QB..... The team needs to improve and its the basics that are bad: OL, DL and add to that STs. Reese, Ross and the scouts have to get legitimate NFL Lineman on the roster and let the coaches meld them into a quality if not adequate unit. Right now they are wasting their own franchise players time with this crappy roster.
A stud OL early in the draft and keeping JPP at the right price would help a lot too. :)
In their first 11 games, when they weren't mathematically eliminated yet, and were playing against good teams, they had 19 sacks.....
Once they were eliminated, and were facing teams with nothing to play for, they had 28 sacks in 5 games....do you see a disparity here?
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As mentioned- career ending injuries all over the place.
Not resigning Bennett is a head scratcher.
I suspect it has to do with that huge contract he got from the Bears. Kudos to him for picking up Bennett from the Cowboys scrapheap.
Fair point. Bennett got some nice coin.
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In comment 12065964 drkenneth said:
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As mentioned- career ending injuries all over the place.
Not resigning Bennett is a head scratcher.
I suspect it has to do with that huge contract he got from the Bears. Kudos to him for picking up Bennett from the Cowboys scrapheap.
Fair point. Bennett got some nice coin.
So Reese rescues Bennett from obscurity in Dallas, we coach him up into one of the better all-around TEs in the league, and then let him go to Chicago because they were willing to "overpay" him. So they're set at tight end for years, we've got nothing, but at least we didn't overpay him.
Actually I think I read somewhere that Bennett was one player who didn't buy into Coughlin's quirky discipline like the five minutes early meeting rule and the dress code.
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In comment 12065964 drkenneth said:
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As mentioned- career ending injuries all over the place.
Not resigning Bennett is a head scratcher.
I suspect it has to do with that huge contract he got from the Bears. Kudos to him for picking up Bennett from the Cowboys scrapheap.
Fair point. Bennett got some nice coin.
So Reese rescues Bennett from obscurity in Dallas, we coach him up into one of the better all-around TEs in the league, and then let him go to Chicago because they were willing to "overpay" him. So they're set at tight end for years, we've got nothing, but at least we didn't overpay him.
Actually I think I read somewhere that Bennett was one player who didn't buy into Coughlin's quirky discipline like the five minutes early meeting rule and the dress code.
In their first 11 games, when they weren't mathematically eliminated yet, and were playing against good teams, they had 19 sacks.....
Once they were eliminated, and were facing teams with nothing to play for, they had 28 sacks in 5 games....do you see a disparity here?
Have a few good games at the end of the season when your team is eliminated from playoff contention and playing teams that are also eliminated, and the first 11 games are pretty much forgotten by some. Happens every year.
He's staying and I pray he and Ross do hit on. More picks because they have some big holes to fill. And one great WR isn't taking this team to playoffs.
They are getting another year and one would hope they can figure out who is going to be a great player at 9.
If people want to absolve Reese/Ross and claim they're at the top of the league, I disagree, but fine. Those people then ought to be pointing a pretty heavy finger at Coughlin and/or Manning though for the failings.
There seems to be a large group of people [on BBI] who want to pretend all three main cogs on the team are great and the results simply do not come close to supporting that.
And even a blind GM should be able to Pick OBj, when he is still available at 12, after Nicks is gone, Randle was inconsistent, and Cruz was returning from a knee injury...
The problem is not the first two rounds, but the value picks after that, to fill your roster....
R3: Bromley, Moore, Hosley, Jernigan, Barden
Thus far? some flashes....
R4: Williams, Nassib, Robinson, Mosely, Brewer, Dillard, A. Brown
Williams has been a pleasant surprise...the rest?
R5: Berhe, Kennard, Taylor, Petrus, Bomar
Berhe couldn't get on the field ahead of Demps and
Brown? Kennard has to play a whole season....Taylor is an injured project....
R6 and R7, not worth mentioning....
So is it any wonder, this roster has so many holes? We just don't get players after the second round....
Since 2009, with 30 picks after the second round, what can you point to outside of Williams?
Who is responsible for this?
Your right. Them blaming JR takes the focus off of TC. Many of these same people said last yr at this time, we should take and OL with our first pick. hmmm JR picked prob the best player in the Draft in OB.
I want to see him run the draft one more time from compiling and centralizing scouting reports, to creating the draft board.