Amari Cooper last night

Victor if he comes back at all. Don't want to be a Debbie Downer but it might be a couple of years before we see the same Victor Cruz...if ever.

that alone to me gives him such a leg up on everyone else behind him. Case in point his first TD lastnight cutting on a dime and in perfect position.

I doubt the Giants go WR in round 1 again, but I have a huge crush on the potential of Beckham/Cooper.

You grab him and never look back. No chance of it actually happening though.

I just cannot see us drafting another WR in the first round this year. We have decent money already invested in the WR position. We need help first and foremost on the two lines. Teams have to be strong on the lines, otherwise it wouldn't matter what you have at the other positions. Remember, this is a team sport. WR is a low need IMO, but agree, non-the-less, that it should also be addressed at some point in draft or FA.

There are far greater needs.

But, yes, Cooper is a fantastic prospect who seems to have skill sets to be a vertical WR or a slot type WR.

If we don't go D in first round, I'll be very disappointed.

The coaching staff and QB had other players in their fanduel accounts. Only reasonable explanation as to why they kept throwing into double coverage away from him. Inexcusable not to put the ball in the hands of your best player on that last drive. I liked what I saw. Might need to bulk up a little for the NFL pounding but he'd be fun to watch with OBJ no doubt.

when the Giants pick, but if he is I'd love them to take him.

Especially if the other players they're considering in that tier are OL.

In comment 12068096 Simms11 said:

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I just cannot see us drafting another WR in the first round this year. We have decent money already invested in the WR position. We need help first and foremost on the two lines. Teams have to be strong on the lines, otherwise it wouldn't matter what you have at the other positions. Remember, this is a team sport. WR is a low need IMO, but agree, non-the-less, that it should also be addressed at some point in draft or FA.

That's the selling point though, 2 young stud WR's that cost almost nothing compared to their value/production. It also would make having to cut Cruz (if it came down to it) a much easier decision both for on the field productivity and overall salary cap.

you don't let a star pass for a need pick. It would be great if the start was OL or defense, but take the star regardless of position. When the talent pool levels out then pick for need.

especially if Parker has a freakish combine (which just might happen). Not sure if 2 WR's go before we pick considering its highly likely the 2 QB's, Williams, and Stanley will go before we pick. Leaving 2 WR's in the other 4 picks of which I can't see Atlanta or Chicago taking. It would be the Raiders, Redskins, Jets in front of us.

Consistently beats man coverage with that alone. Great ball skills. Aggressive. Good after the catch.

Cooper doesn't want to be a great WR. He wants to be the best and he won't stop until he gets there. I love his approach. Combine that with the talent and I really think you are looking at a guy who will be catching 100 passes per year.

If we don't go D in first round, I'll be very disappointed.

from WVU is good too, correct? He has high potential from what I been reading. He would be a good addition if we don't add more WRs during FA.

went before 9 last year.


most year's at least one goes top 5-7, so I think it's 50/50 if two WR's go before 9.

In either case this "BPA" stuff is one of the most tired conversations on BBI. It doesn't really exist not how people mean it at least, yet every year like clockwork come draft time you hear people advocating for picking BPA.

We know NYG brass looks playmaker first ...

That said, I hope the player is a DE or LT.

In comment 12068116 JonC said:

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We know NYG brass looks playmaker first ... That said, I hope the player is a DE or LT.

I hate drafting for a position in the first round. That is how you end up with Shaun Williams over Alan Faneca. The Giants have needs at many positions and really need to add talent up and down the roster

the Giants draft the BPA, but the BPA isn't an ordered list of rated players, it's a tiered list based on players and their needs.

I have a hard time seeing how Justin Pugh tops the Giants list of BPA without the tiers Reese has described many times.

it's not new if you pay attention.

It's very possible Cooper could be the BPA given Randle has one year left and Cruz is a question mark.

In comment 12068123 Mike in NY said:

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In comment 12068116 JonC said: Quote: We know NYG brass looks playmaker first ... That said, I hope the player is a DE or LT. I hate drafting for a position in the first round. That is how you end up with Shaun Williams over Alan Faneca. The Giants have needs at many positions and really need to add talent up and down the roster

Thanks for the flasback. How many of us felt Faneca was the pick and were blinsided by Williams?

I never advocate drafting for position, I've written a thousand times "draft the player, not the position".

pj, I'm well aware I'm just shortcut writing because it's tireseome.

I too, don't understand not throwing the ball up to him in that last drive, especially, that throw to the corner to the other receiver....you let your playmakers make a play....

you need to draft a potential All Pro at whatever position. Address needs in the 2nd Round on. If your potential All Pro is a need, all the better. No reaching at 9

....Mad Maxx If We Go For A Skill Position At #9. We Desperately Need A Complete TE.

In comment 12068126 JonC said:

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I never advocate drafting for position, I've written a thousand times "draft the player, not the position". pj, I'm well aware I'm just shortcut writing because it's tireseome.

LOL, I get it

nor a LB.

at 9, and will fit a 4-3 scheme?

....I Want The LT from LSU at #9.

looks like Cooper would be it at #9, but somehow I doubt he makes it that far.

It's basically a moot point. I do think he's a tremendous talent, but I don't see him having the type of impact OBJ just had which I kind of suspect some posters would be expecting.

We have a lot of needs. I still think making a run at Randall Cobb would be the power move while we use the draft to replenish the OL and add some defensive talent.

...Of Putrid Drafts. The Cupboard Has Been Completely Bare At LB and TE Far Too Long And It's A Huge Reason Why We Never Qualify For The Playoffs.

It's still early, but I don't see one yet to be honest.

and it's still not going to change, so I don't waste energy on it.

In comment 12068140 arcarsenal said:

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It's basically a moot point. I do think he's a tremendous talent..

I think one of the best way to evaluate talent is asking where the player would rank among players at his position from recent drafts. Over the past three drafts, where would Cooper rank against the other wide receivers? He's likely #1 in this draft yet agree, i don't think he's tremendous and i doubt he's in the top 2 in last years draft.

Botched that one lol

OL and WR.

I'd be surprised if the Giants didn't take a player at one of those positions.

In comment 12068150 armstead98 said:

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OL and WR. I'd be surprised if the Giants didn't take a player at one of those positions.

At this early stage, I'd agree.

In comment 12068147 Giants2012 said:

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In comment 12068140 arcarsenal said: Quote: It's basically a moot point. I do think he's a tremendous talent.. I think one of the best way to evaluate talent is asking where the player would rank among players at his position from recent drafts. Over the past three drafts, where would Cooper rank against the other wide receivers? He's likely #1 in this draft yet agree, i don't think he's tremendous and i doubt he's in the top 2 in last years draft.

Watkins, Evans and OBJ probably all go before Cooper if this version of him is in last years draft but he'd still be a 1st rd pick, would have gone before Cooks or Benjamin and I do think he's a legitimate talent who will be an impact NFL WR.

What the 2014 class just did has thrown peoples perceptions out of whack a bit, IMO. These guys basically just did something we've never seen before.

Cooper may not jump into the league and score 13 TD's or be a 1,200 yard guy his first year but I am confident he's going to be very, very good.

In comment 12068150 armstead98 said:

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OL and WR. I'd be surprised if the Giants didn't take a player at one of those positions.

RB too but you don't pick RBs that high anymore

what we need, not a very good player, but someone at any position who can make an impact. this doesn't mean a skill position, it could be a de, or ot. the giants need impact players all over the place if there is one at 9, regardless of where he plays. we ought to grab him.

In comment 12068158 dpinzow said:

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In comment 12068150 armstead98 said: Quote: OL and WR. I'd be surprised if the Giants didn't take a player at one of those positions. RB too but you don't pick RBs that high anymore

After yesterday I would maybe take Melvin Gordon.

They sustain too much pounding, very short career more often than not.

and I doubt that a Woody lets a new GM gamble on Winston, even if he were still available at #6.

Geno Smith looks a lot better with a receiving corps of Cooper, Decker, Kerley and Amaro.

Of course nothing matters if the routine instantaneous breakdown of pass protection through the LG position continues.

The point is that the Jets are running to the podium at #6 if AC lasts that long.

But if a Leveon Bell / Jamaal Charles / Adrian Peteson type is there I think you can take the him.

he's a rare breed.

but if this kid's as good as everyone is saying, he won't be there! There's no way after the season OBJ had that a team drafting before us would let him drop that far. Would you want to be the GM who passed on the chance of getting a receiver like OBJ?

players are there in this draft class? I'm getting the feeling that all the players worthy of the #9 pick will be gone by then and the Giants will end up picking someone at #9 with a value more mid 1st round.

Anybody wary of him or do you like him? Auburn torched the center of the field against Bama and last night wasn't really a "wow" showing.

In comment 12068182 Wonderphil11 said:

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players are there in this draft class? I'm getting the feeling that all the players worthy of the #9 pick will be gone by then and the Giants will end up picking someone at #9 with a value more mid 1st round.

There will be a some excellent options at 9 especially if both QBs get taken.

there might be 3 QB's taken in the first 8

if his combine backs up the explosiveness you see on the field. He reminds me of some former great NFL backs, first I thought Dickerson but on further reflection he's more like Billy Simms. Those projecting him as late 1st or 2nd round don't know shit. I'd bet my home he's a top 20 guy even with the devalued running game now, unless his combine blows.

Likely a short career vs a WR who if good enough to be 9th dooms the Giants to letting either him or OBJ leave after their rookie deal cuz you'll never pay both?

of cruz

In comment 12068188 armstead98 said:

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In comment 12068182 Wonderphil11 said: Quote: players are there in this draft class? I'm getting the feeling that all the players worthy of the #9 pick will be gone by then and the Giants will end up picking someone at #9 with a value more mid 1st round. There will be a some excellent options at 9 especially if both QBs get taken.

Thanks, good to know!

Zero chance Cooper makes it to us at 9. However for the threads sake, yes, we steal him there. Then go Tackle/DE/LB/S the rest of the way

In comment 12068092 MikeN in Ottawa said:

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Victor if he comes back at all. Don't want to be a Debbie Downer but it might be a couple of years before we see the same Victor Cruz...if ever.

I think you're right, Mike. My guess is Jernigan will be in the slot next year. Maybe Cruz comes back to form in 2016. Or maybe we'll be left with what might have been. Cruz' speed and ability to cut almost instanteously was amazing.

Is he was hurt early in this season. He will have a full calendar year to heal and it would only be October.

I'm not very optimistic about Cruz but if anyone can come back it's victor.

.

its hybrid version of BPA has seemed to go for the "playmaker" when there are competing player positions for BPA; hopefully the hole this has put the team in for the past several years swings them back to the power side of the ledger, i.e., lines. That said, if Cooper were there, I think they revert to form. Look at what the Wilson pick did for them, esp. after TB's pick one ahead. panic?

will be pass rush OLB

to get a top need position filled at 9, than at 41, especially since we have far more needs than the 1 player can make.
If you want a WR, AND are really unsure/unconfident about VC, AND with so many needs, you better do a real good job in FA filling most needs.
The fact that the line is 'we are not spending alot in FA' means Suh is out, maybe JPP also, so money will be spread around to fill as many needs as possible.
Re: COOPER, if we are Cleveland at 13 and 19, I move up to get him(especially w/JGordon situation). For us, a great luxury, but, NO for reasons stated.

Who do you have in mind? I'm not too familiar with the LBs at the top of the draft.

Take a look at the expected increases for the salary cap in upcoming seasons, it's less of a problem.

NYG could've kept both Cruz and Nicks, if they'd wanted to. Ultimately, it's a good problem to have.

A RB, by definition, takes a multiplied pounding relative to other skill positions given the number of touches, contact with bigger men, etc.

vic beasley i'm thrilled about. gregory and rey also should b value picks at our slot.

Ray as well.

them are jon

... and his meltdown last night, is he still a 1st rounder at this point? I'd think he'd be low 2nd round/high 3rd round at this point. What's he done to be a 1st rounder?

I doubt it.

altho id b fine if we did - think 34 fits what little young talent in the front 7 we have (JPP, moore, kennard, hankins)

im just saying the strength at the top of this draft looks like 34 OLB and beasley in particular is a special pass rusher

In comment 12068124 pjcas18 said:

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the Giants draft the BPA, but the BPA isn't an ordered list of rated players, it's a tiered list based on players and their needs. I have a hard time seeing how Justin Pugh tops the Giants list of BPA without the tiers Reese has described many times. it's not new if you pay attention. It's very possible Cooper could be the BPA given Randle has one year left and Cruz is a question mark.

Yes very true. It's not a pure or straight BPA approach but as Reese put it where value meets need.

However with that said, if a player is far and away BPA at an impact position, the Giants will likely not ignore that even if there is a pretty good one at a higher need position.

Looking at it from a mathematical point of view (this may not be exactly how the Giants do it but the general idea is close).

A player will receive an overall grade based on talent level,character, work ethic, durability, projectibility to the pros, body type/ability to get stronger faster in an NFL training program etc.

Then there are multipliers for the needs specific to our team: fit within the scheme we will run, level of the need for that position etc.

So again roughly speaking, if you have an Adrien Peterson type sitting on the board at our pick though we may have already a couple decent but not great RB's on the roster and he carries a grade of let's say 9.5.

You still may take him over the top Tackle left even though he may be a greater need as his grade is only an 8 and with the multipliers for need and fit still don't bridge the 'gap' enough and only bring him to let's say an 8.8 adjusted grade.

In comment 12068272 JonC said:

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Take a look at the expected increases for the salary cap in upcoming seasons, it's less of a problem. NYG could've kept both Cruz and Nicks, if they'd wanted to. Ultimately, it's a good problem to have. A RB, by definition, takes a multiplied pounding relative to other skill positions given the number of touches, contact with bigger men, etc.

I think the pounding issue is a good point, but anyway I think TC would want Williams and Gordon or Jennings and Williams and Gordon rotating touches so no 1 of them would endure all the hits. Not so up on the cap expansion, but OBJ if he keeps up his pace is gonna take an oil tanker full of dough to keep in blue when his rookie deal expires... Hard to imagine affording 2 wr at that level, and I'd bet JR considers that before jumping on any wr at 9...

opinion .....like a couple of others, that the #1 pick should be the best player. Draft for need the rest of the way.

BPA for Reese in any round is not the best player. He could have 3 guys with the exact same rating it close enough not to matter an he's going to go for a guy he thinks is a playmaker or an athletic do
Dominator.

Austin Sintim Barden Travis Beckum Seen it often. And Pugh proably had a similar or the same rating as about 10 other guys when he was picked. The Giants were desperate for OL so they went with their highest rated guy there. Same w Richberg. They went OBJ in rd 1. If they had a WR rated higher they weren't grabbing that player over Richberg.

Reese rates WR DL and Definitely WR well above other spots. And Wilson was a perfect example of a guy who's athleticism wowed them enough to pass on Cordy Glenn who was a bigger need. It's his philophy.

In comment 12068466 LauderdaleMatty said:

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BPA for Reese in any round is not the best player. He could have 3 guys with the exact same rating it close enough not to matter an he's going to go for a guy he thinks is a playmaker or an athletic do Dominator. Austin Sintim Barden Travis Beckum Seen it often. And Pugh proably had a similar or the same rating as about 10 other guys when he was picked. The Giants were desperate for OL so they went with their highest rated guy there. Same w Richberg. They went OBJ in rd 1. If they had a WR rated higher they weren't grabbing that player over Richberg. Reese rates WR DL and Definitely WR well above other spots. And Wilson was a perfect example of a guy who's athleticism wowed them enough to pass on Cordy Glenn who was a bigger need. It's his philophy.

LM yup, we do seem also to favor the playmaker when the value is close to other positions.

Is no ODB who was picked at #11. He is a good player but I don't see impact guy when I think of him. If he is available I would let someone overpay (and someone would) for him.

also be available, and may be as good of a prospect as cooper. He looks like a beast whenever i've watched ASU. Can't wait to see what he runs in the 40, but he screams playmaker.

You do know that all first round picks are slotted and teams can't overpay. If you mean he isn't worth the 9th pick and by picking him that would be overpaying, that is another story

He may not be as good as Beckham, but he's very, very good. But he won't be there when we pick. A guy I like almost as much is Kevin White, who should be there.

come on, he had two touchdowns and over 100 yards i believe. his qb is GARBAGE! what do you expect? did you see sims throw?

WR is definately a need. Especially since with the way the NFL is today WR has become the most important position on the field outside of QB. I think the Giants may well go WR at 9 even if Cooper isn't there. Better than drafting a RT at 9.

Look at the numbers Eli and OBJ put up with a shitty OL. If there were two of them the ball would come out even quicker. Focus on OL and DL/LB/safety the rest of the way and FA.

the only blue chip guy I could see us taking over one of the 4-5 LT versatile tackles is Amari.

If Amari and Williams are gone (very likely) I think it's going to be an OT. It's the probably the biggest strength of the draft in the top 15 and it's a high need on the team.

By the time two WRs would be needing their second pro contract, Cruz will be 30+, and Randle will either be moving onto another team, or paid like an ordinary wideout. I wouldn't worry about paying two WRs, they'll figure it out with some capology magic.

That said, I still think it's more likely they look pass rusher or left tackle. RBs can be found later, and TC tends to prefer rotating his runners as you said, which means they can build a running back monster with 2-3 runners and different skillsets.

they might well have a clear cut BPA like OBJ was last year. At 9 it seems like a good possibility.

is like going with two stoves when you don't have a fridge. We have WR's, we just need time to get them the ball. Especially since the defense will be giving up 25 points a game again.

Do too much for me. He's polished but polished is polished.

But his readiness does a lot becuaese ODBs one biggest strength above all else was readiness and creating separation.

Very good player and I could easily see his skill set resulting in such a high floor. He's got one of the higher floors in a minute. But his ceiling isn't as breathtaking as Watkins or Beckham.