I'm not a "remote thrower" person, but I really thought the play was to trade down and draft Roethlisberger and when the details emerged about what the Giants gave up I was even more concerned it was a mistake.
I was 100% wrong, or for at least what we can prove and that was pretty clear by the end of 2006, definite by the end of 2007.
Now, no one knows what history would be like if the Giants drafted Ben instead of Rivers or better yet traded down and drafted Ben instead of Rivers, so I'll go with what I know.
gave up to get him, but I was excited that they had a guy who could be a franchise QB.
I remember listening WFAN right after the season and Accorsi was on with Mike and the Mad Dog. I remember hearing him carry on about how great Eli was and how the Giants had to get him. I remember thinking that was stupid to be giving that information out. Give other teams the ability to demand more in a trade.
I was ecstatic because I thought we would never make the move Â
I was never more excited for a NYG player acquisition. I absolutely loved the trade. I was at the draft party at giants stadium and proclaimed to more than a few fans that the trade would go down in NYG history as a huge success. Every single one of them disagreed with me. Many said they only reason Eli was highly thought of was due to his name. Such a stupid belief with no sound evidence to support it but despite my sound points I was one of a few that day to argue in favor of the trade.
PS Marcus Vick was never even drafted. Carson palmers brother wasn't highly touted. So much for the last name.
After years of watching Dave Brown, danny kannell, kent graham suck it up, and kerry collins, and only faint memories of Phil Simms (was pretty young back then) we finally had a real QB.
Was watching with fans of other teams, dolphins, redskins and jets fans. At first, the way they presented the trade, it almost sounded like a 1 for 1 trade. We were all really confused at why a team would trade a 4th pick for a 1st pick and we thought there would be a player or a pick included. I was really excited when it was first announced.
Then the details emerged and all of my buddies that are fans of other teams started laughing and mocking the giants and thought we got ripped off. I defended the giants, but acknowledged that it seems like we gave up way too much considering Eli wasn't going to SD and we only moved up a few spots.
The discussions with these guys went on for years and probably ended when Eli won the SB.
...the pick. I was bummed when we selected Rivers, as I never have been a fan of his in any way. I was then elated when we made the trade for Eli, as I felt we picked up the best QB in that draft. Couldn't be happier how things turned out.
I was skeptical because I did not rank Eli that much higher than Ben Roethlisberger to make it worth trading the additional 1st Round pick especially because with how our team was at the time I did not expect us to suddenly go from a Top 5 pick to a playoff team in one year just by getting a new QB
Didn't think Eli was anything without the last name. I didn't really warm up to Eli until after the first Super Bowl. Obviously I was completely wrong about him.
And guaranteed a min of 2 superbowl rings and high probability of a 3rd before he retires. I also said he would retire with more rings than his brother Peyton.
I am feeling great a decade + later, the close friends of mine with me watching the draft, they dont like to talk about that day much these days.
Accorsi handled it exactly right and got him for a bargain price. I still think that. If you like at what top shelf college QBs cost by way of trade, Eli was a steal. We traded a #1 next year and a number 5 next year and our #3 that year. So, we had the benefit of Eli gaining a year of experience before the cost really kicked in. If you look at what Griffin cost the Redskins in the trade, Eli was a steal. Plus, in the year that Eli was drafted, another draft choice was traded for a QB and that cost an extra one the following year. I don't remember the name of the guy (around the 20th pick) but we got Eli for an extra 3rd and 5th compared to some nondescript QB. Eli was a major bargain and I don't understand those who say we overpaid.
Thought he would be a good pro, and the rag-arm BS was just that. He has been, and it was. But Eli has exactly the right personality for the NY media market. No one could have been better. A vitriolic QB personality would be an endless distraction here.
SD got him;
2. OK we got Rivers;
3. Happy we picked him up in a trade;
4. later, #3 tempered by what we gave up;
5. After the '05 Denver game, and '06 mega-comeback vs. Philthy;
6.ECSTATIC. Knew he was the real deal.
and i thought if the Giants do go QB to draft the guy thats there whether its Roethlesburger or Rivers...I didnt think paying the hefty price for Eli was worth it with Big Ben and Rivers sitting there to be taken...
that he could win the Championship. I knew I didn't want Rivers, Eli seemed to have the right make up from what I read about him at the time. I would have been satisfied at the time with Ben, but I didn't know what a dooshbag he was at the time.
Ernie made a mistake when he said publicly that had the deal not come off that he would have taken Ben and slept well. It gave fuel to the fire of the "gave up too much" argument.
Overall, I am happy with Eli and think it was a good move.
enveloped me. Guaranteed franchise QB in our hands is worth whatever money or trades you have to make. The value for a trade up has actually gone much higher since that trade.
I like big Ben too, Rivers I thought through the ball weird and didn't get his game as much as the other two. So when we got Rivers I was a little bummed and was praying for Eli.
Today you could never move up for what we gave. I never doubted that Eli would work out either. You knew what he was and what he wasn't during the preseason. Honestly that's how I saw it.
I better go check out the internet to find out what all the fuss was about with my beloved Giants. And that's how I ended up on BBI. I think we both made a good choice.
Thought we gave up an awful lot, but that Accorsi got his guy -- and knew what he was doing. He did pretty much, as it turned out, though the Unitas comparison was a bit much.
I knew we had our franchise quarterback. That was the one and only Giants draft party I ever went to. It was great to be at Giants Stadium that day with all the excitement. Only problem was I left a little before the first round was over and missed the part when Eli actually showed up.
Had no problem whatsoever with the trade, I always thought the hysteria over the Giants "giving up the farm" to get Eli was greatly exaggerated.
I admit, however, that I bought into the Manning name more so than anything. I watched him play a bit, but overall I was just happy we had a Manning of our own. At the very least I assumed we'd be a relevant, winning team for the next decade.
Any team drafting a QB nowadays would be thrilled to have the type of run we've had.
don't watch any CFB so I was going purely on draft evaluations, but most of them had him the #1 QB in the draft, and after suffering through the likes of Brown, Kanell and Graham (and knowing KC wasn't the solution) I was psyched.
My son was a newborn, and we had a whole draft party here to celebrate. The gloveone stuff on BBI had me convinced we were going to get Eli, and the feeling at the party was somber until the Redskins went on the clock.
Never would have guessed we'd get two titles out of it though.
Didint mind but i wanted Gallery to go with Warner Â
We should have kept Kelly and used the picks. The price was way too high and Kelly could have won us a SB with the right players. We were not that far off.
We should have kept Kelly and used the picks. The price was way too high and Kelly could have won us a SB with the right players. We were not that far off.
Lololol
I was 40 and psyched up for another SB-contending run Â
I was very happy for my father, whom we actually got to come to Camp in 2003 (thank you, Hope and Pat Hanlon).
Unfortunately Dad did not live to see the 2007 and 2012 seasons. But he died knowing we had a very promising new team, with a tough new coach and a young, franchise quarterback. That was huge after all he had suffered in the 60s and 70s, when the Giants were crap.
The TC haters may not like this but hiring Coughlin as HC was s bigger reason for our success than getting ELI. TC would have built around Kelly and done very well with those picks. Of course Accorsi did not want any part of Coughlin, who knew way more than he did about the game and how to win. He would not have been able to control him so he left and stuck us with Reese. IMO.
and it had little or nothing to do with what we gave up for him. There was no particular player I wnated the Giants to choose. It was just that my perverse, pea brain was telling me –
"If the dude’s a dud, we’re totally screwed.
If he turns out to be a great player, any Giant’s success during his tenure would be discounted. 'Hey they just got lucky. They tanked in 03 and picked Eli just because of his family’s name.' ”
about my perspective (disaster) is that was when my kids were just born and I was still watching college football.
I thought Eli was erratic and would struggle in the NFL when blitzed, but Ben, being much bigger and athletic was a better fit for the Giants).
I hated Rivers.
Shows how little I knew even when I was watching college football.
Now I rely on Sy, Colin, etc. and obviously Reese, so it's much less stressful. I see who they draft and then I look the up, watch some film if I can get it (avoid the youtube highlight montages, everyone looks great in those) and scouting reports.
I'm never upset with a pick anymore.
though some (like Bromley) I'll still question, not vehemently like I know he can't succeed, but just where he was drafted versus the consensus about where he should be drafted. and questioning is now about as vocal as I'd get.
Much better for me personally.
I still have positions I feel like the team should fill in FA vs draft and thoughts about what a 1st round pick should contribute - even as a rookie - but that's irrelevant to the actual names.
He was the ONLY player I wanted... but that was because I never considered the team having a shot at Eli. The thought honestly never crossed my mind. So when we picked up Rivers (with Taylor still on the board), I was PISSED. I remember thinking, 'We could've at least picked up that Ben Somethin-berger guy instead of him!'. Then I started hearing rumbings of a trade going down and that's why we picked up Rivers and I started getting excited. Then the trade went through and I was happy as hell! Eli was the ONLY player I would've wanted instead of Taylor at the time (I would be bummed out when the Skins would pick Taylor with the next pick though... hated that he went to a division rival and told all my Skins friends around here that they got a hell of a player). I remember typing on this site after the trade was announced 'Gentlemen... get ready for a hell of a ride!', or something to that effect.
Samiam -
Quote:
If you look at what Griffin cost the Redskins in the trade, Eli was a steal. Plus, in the year that Eli was drafted, another draft choice was traded for a QB and that cost an extra one the following year. I don't remember the name of the guy (around the 20th pick) but we got Eli for an extra 3rd and 5th compared to some nondescript QB. Eli was a major bargain and I don't understand those who say we overpaid.
JP Losman is who you're thinking about. Can't remember the exact pick off the top of my head but I think he went 22nd or something like that to the Bills. I'll never forget his name because 1) it seems like everyone else, except for Bills fans, has and 2) I remember shortly after the draft an ESPN talking head (I'm pretty sure it was Colin Cowheard) saying that he was going to be the best QB from that draft and me thinking that he was crazy.
I was 17, pre-BBI (joined in the infamous 03-05 group) and a less knowledgeable fan overall, obviously. I wanted Gallery. To this day I always lean OL or DL, big believer in building up the trenches. Last year I wanted Martin. Wasn't unhappy with the Eli or the OBJ pick, but thought the safer bet both years was with the linemen.
I'm not now and wasn't then a 'throw the remote' type guy. I understand that people a lot smarter than me make these decisions with a lot more analysis and research than a guy like me who barely watches any college football. I remember the ESPN website caption after the draft in '04 - "Eli Eli Oh". I was excited from day 1 and have been an Eli guy since.
Up to that point, Phil Simms was the greatest QB in team history, at least in my memory which dates back to the Jerry Golsteyn, Randy Dean, Joe Pisarcik days, and it was a euphoric feeling to get a QB of Eli's stature. It was a costly trade but we were paying for the Manning pedigree.
It was also exciting watching all the information that Gloveone was revealing unfold.
The TC haters may not like this but hiring Coughlin as HC was s bigger reason for our success than getting ELI. TC would have built around Kelly and done very well with those picks. Of course Accorsi did not want any part of Coughlin, who knew way more than he did about the game and how to win. He would not have been able to control him so he left and stuck us with Reese. IMO.
You post a lot of nonsense, but this one takes the cake. You really think a coach like TC, who could have gone elsewhere, didn't want Manning? He wanted to work with KC?
Why, exactly, would he subject himself to trading away a mint and drafting a QB high if he already had a guy under contract at a reasonable cost? Every single paper had KC as a dead man when TC was hired, but you somehow figured out the code that TC was forced to see him go?
I was a freshman at Ohio State and was at the Spring game (offense vs. defense tradition every year). They displayed we drafted Rivers, and then 45 minutes later or whatever it was they showed that we made the trade.
From there I went into the concession area and watched draft coverage on a TV ha.,
was Sean Taylor. I was drinking at a shindig the night before the draft and ended up waking up around 3 p.m. groggy and misty-eyed. Jumped on the internet and saw Eli is the Giants' QB. Was ecstatic because he was supposed to be the #1 pick yet we got him. I was actually stunned to see what we gave up to get him. Shows how little I understand what's important in football.
The TC haters may not like this but hiring Coughlin as HC was s bigger reason for our success than getting ELI. TC would have built around Kelly and done very well with those picks. Of course Accorsi did not want any part of Coughlin, who knew way more than he did about the game and how to win. He would not have been able to control him so he left and stuck us with Reese. IMO.
It's pretty well documented Tom Coughlin wanted little part of "Kelly" Collins as his QB and had zero problems with getting a QB in that draft, with Eli being his favorite of three top guys, putting him in sync for the most part with Ernie.
Even if that wasn't true (again, it is), if the Giants had tied TC to "Kelly" instead of getting him Eli, TC's career would be looked back on being a more classy version of Jeff Fisher's.
Were that we overpaid, everything I read said that there was not much of a difference between Ben, Eli, and Rivers, and in hindsight, that really is very accurate, there is not much of a difference between the three. So since that was the case, I wanted to trade down and add a pick or two and then land Ben.
I did not want Rivers because I thought his delivery would hurt him in the pro's, and I was wrong. I still think that was the best play.
But with all that said, I am happy with Eli, he is a rock solid guy, and despite what some think, I think he will play at a very high level for another 5 - 7 years.
I also think that now that Beckham is here that his best days may very well be ahead of him. I honestly believe that he will get us 1 more championship. If that happens, then to get three out of him would be something that I would sign on the dotted line for when drafting any QB with the first pick in any draft.
and when Eli came along, it was a HUGE relief. By that time, we had all gotten sick to death of Collins' allergy to the red zone. I had more than enough of watching the team march down the field only to go 3 and out when they were inside or close to the 10 yard line.
The Giants will have the first pick when the NFL draft commences April 25.
April 25 is a Sunday, the draft's second day when the first selection is the first choice in the fourth round. But the Giants will have it - unless they trade it to help move from No. 4 up to the first, second, or third pick the previous day.
General manager Ernie Accorsi has shown a tendency to trade up in the first round, whether it be a few spots to get cornerback Will Allen in 2001 or one spot to lock up tight end Jeremy Shockey in 2002. Each time the deal was made on the run, as the first round was progressing.
This time, however, the Giants will know the landscape once they decide which player they want in the first round.
If he's quarterback Eli Manning, they will have to trade up to No. 1, where the Chargers reside. If he's offensive tackle Robert Gallery, they will have to trade up to No. 2 (Oakland). If he's quarterback Ben Roethlisberger or wide receiver Larry Fitzgerald, they will have to flip-flop with the Arizona Cardinals at No. 3.
One Giants' official says all those options are being explored, as well as the possibility of sitting tight or even trading down as low as No. 10 (Houston). "We think there are about 10 or 11 top players available in this draft," he added.
Accorsi will know beforehand whether he has a shot at Manning or Gallery, based on what the Chargers or Raiders desire for their pick. San Diego has been secretive in its dealings and had private sessions with both quarterbacks and Gallery. Since they recently traded wide receiver David Boston to Miami, the opening is there for a wide receiver like Fitzgerald or one of the Williamses, Mike or Roy.
The Chargers, with coach Marty Schottenheimer perhaps in his final season, might trade out to gather more picks and instant help at multiple positions. Whichever team winds up in the first spot almost certainly will select Manning as its franchise quarterback of the future.
Price for the Giants? Their No. 1, plus No. 2s this year and in 2005, and a lower pick or a serviceable player.
Oakland's hierarchy has been absent at the top quarterback workouts, indicating new head coach Norv Turner may be willing to go with Rich Gannon this season. "I'd be very surprised if Al Davis doesn't take the tackle [Gallery]," said a longtime draft observer/participant.
Price for the Giants? A flip-flop of No. 1s, this year's No. 2, and a No. 3 this year or in 2005.
Arizona assistant coaches and scouts have been all over the quarterback workouts even though new coach Dennis Green has announced Josh McCown will be his starter this season. Green also is agog over Fitzgerald, who as a high school ballboy for Green in Minnesota once was used to demonstrate the correct way to catch the football to veterans Randy Moss and Cris Carter.
But the Cardinals spent high draft picks on wide receivers Bryant Johnson and rookie of the year Anquan Bolden last year. Does it make sense to select another receiver without having anyone to throw him the ball? Arizona could opt for Roethlisberger.
Price for the Giants? A first-round flip-flop, a No. 3, and that fourth-rounder that kicks off Sunday's session.
There is a wild card who might help the Giants' first-round cause. Tight end Kellen Winslow Jr. could be of interest to Oakland or Arizona, or even San Diego, where his father became a Hall of Fame tight end. The impact Shockey has had with the Giants could rocket his successor at Miami into the top three, and push one of the others down a notch.
Or a team like Detroit at No. 6 or Cleveland at No. 7 might look to trade up with the Giants to grab him before Washington (No. 5) gets a shot at Winslow. Price for Detroit? Probably a third-rounder. Price for Cleveland? Probably third- and fourth-round picks.
With the #1 pick the Chargers trade w/NY Giants : viccoach : 4/6 5:20 PM
I think I will cut my wrists if this happens. EA has to trade down and get multiple picks. Sure we have signed a lot of players, but they are for depth & insurance. Except for the Emmons-is anyone else a stud. We can walk away with possible 2 first round selections or 2 2nds & 2 3rds. We can get quality and quantity & not make a splash with one pick. This team is a veteran team built to win now. If draft a qb early-we are saying goodbye to the next 2-3 years and should dump all of our aging veterans & rebuild w/youth. How amy more years does Strahan & Toomer have? Sign Collins to a 3 year contract w/ a club option for 4. Draft & pick-up quality June 1 cap cuts & try to win in the next two years.
Follow up comments...
Uh - : FranknWeezer : 4/6 5:21 PM
oh. I think I hear a siren approaching.
Frank: you chasing an : bob in tx : 4/6 5:22 PM
ambulance?
Nah Bob : FranknWeezer : 4/6 5:26 PM
but good one. The lady who's suing my client, a mom & pop grocery store, because a box of cookies fell from a shelf onto her belly when she was pregnant is taking up the bulk of my afternoon. This stuff just gets better and better, and I applaud the creativity, sort of.
If you what you say is true.... : Tom [Giants fan] : 4/6 5:27 PM
and the Giants are built to win now, Gallery would be the smartest choice. And I do agree the Giants are built to win now. They need Gallery to make that OLine very good. Gallery, Diehl, O'Hara, Seubert, Petitgout is a pretty solid line. Let's just hope there aren't nearly as many injuries here as last year.
Does she recall the name of the cookies? : Big Blue '56 : 4/6 5:59 PM
Could be probative down the road...
Trading down : Blue Blood : 4/6 7:04 PM
would be a HUGE mistake.. This is not a deep draft..
BB... : Capt. Don : 4/6 7:10 PM
not a deep draft? you start drinking early? this is an incredibly deep draft, especially from 1-10 and in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. there are 4 legit potential #1 picks in this draft. i dont know the last time that happened. but make no mistake this is a very good draft.
I agree : viccoach : 4/6 7:18 PM
when the draft is deep & loaded, you get as many as you can. Draft picks are at a premium. Stock pile this year with an impact player, quality depth at positions we are getting long in the tooth in, get speed for defense & special teams. We have a small window, 2 or 3 years to win a championship before we dismantle this team and build over again. Strahan, Barber, Toomer, Collins are not young chickens anymore.
I should also mention that I was at Steve in Maryland's house Â
for the draft when the trade for Eli went down. Everybody knew we were going to draft Rivers and then trade for Eli. It was exciting.
Plus, while all this was going on, Steve and his lovely wife, a kosher catering team, provided the most DELICIOUS spread and put me up over the weekend...OMG, it was sooooo scrumptious.
Even if we didn't get shit in the draft, that weekend was some of the best non-stop eating I've done in my life: chicken wings, blueberry tart, Maryland crab cakes (we ate those at a restaurant), everything.
Just fabulous BBI hospitality and a wonderful visit with Bob in Annapolis (RIP). THANK YOU, Steve!!!
for me because lets not forget that this was a multi step process..
First, we draft Rivers and the thought is WTF???
Then, I hear about the trade and I think "Awesome".
Then, I find out how much we gave up and I think "holy shit, that is alot...but ok"
Then, I find out (much later) that we could have swapped picks with Cleveland and still drafted Rivers and I got a little pissed off at Acorsi.
still do, Big Ben plus the draft picks would have been better. We'd still be relevant instead of rebuilding.Happy that Ernie finally atoned for his Elway fiasco though, can you swim in that thing Ernie?
I never thought we would have a chance to get Eli. I remember when we were 4-4 and then the losing every game. I remember losing our last 8 to fall to 4-12 and thought how bad the season sucked but that we didn't suck enough to get Eli. I was like T-bone in that I was excited about getting Sean Taylor and that Eli was the only guy I wanted over him but that we didn't have a chance at #4 and that the Chargers would just take him and make him play there.
I was over the moon excited that there was a possibility to even get Eli. I do remember not wanting to give up Osi in the trade and it seemed like AJ Smith was hung up on getting Osi. When it went through without Osi I went nuts. I was so pumped and part of the reason was I thought Eli was really clutch at Ole Miss and showed the exact type of late game heroics and clutchness that we have seen help us win 2 Super Bowls. He was taking a team with zero potential NFL players on it and winning big games late against top 10 teams almost by himself. I thought he distinguished himself from Payton in that way in college. He was much more clutch and that has certainly proved itself over his NFL career.
bottom line, Eli's won what Eli has won, can't explain it, I'll love him forever but given Ben and the draft picks we're still playing tomorrow with no good argument that we don't have what Eli brought us so far.
The Giants used the cap space that would have gone to the picks traded Â
And as good/great as Ben is as a QB, he's never been an Aaron Rodgers type that automatically guarantees a winning season/playoff appearance just on his presence.
The Giants would almost certainly still be sucking even with him.
Draft Roethlisberger and keep the picks which included our 3rd that year plus our 1st and 5th rounders in 2005. In comparing value on talent alone that would have been the best possible outcome. But Rapelisberger is a reprehensible human being and I'd hurl if he were the face of our franchise.
Give him his due The Rug got it right. His legacy as an NFL executive was made that day in the Giants War Room.
RE: At the time I wanted the Giants to stand pat at #4 Â
Draft Roethlisberger and keep the picks which included our 3rd that year plus our 1st and 5th rounders in 2005. In comparing value on talent alone that would have been the best possible outcome. But Rapelisberger is a reprehensible human being and I'd hurl if he were the face of our franchise.
Give him his due The Rug got it right. His legacy as an NFL executive was made that day in the Giants War Room.
actually the browns wanted to trade spots with us and would have given up I believe their second and perhaps another pick.
That would have been Ben R and 5 additional picks vs Eli.
Happy but thought we'd do fine sitting tight with Big Ben Â
I don't see how either of them would/could survive the media, scrutiny that NY would have imposed on them. Eli has the perfect tempranent. Plus, if you had seen Eli playing for an inferior Old Miss team battling far better SEC teams, trading up made sense.
I was in school in Boston, and my friends and I took a road trip, leaving at early dawn, and drove to the meadowlands for draft day party. I wanted Sean T. as our pick, and then Eli second.
It was a beautiful day that day, we are all in the stadium, watching the draft on the big screen. I still remember the other guys drafted, such as Tommie Harris, who Ithought would be damn good.
Then they closed the doors, and Eli came walking down the steps and everyone cheered.
I hope to make the same drive but to Canton, to see Eli get into the HOF. That would be special, seeing him when he got drafted, and then seeing him give his HOF speech.
I was in school in Boston, and my friends and I took a road trip, leaving at early dawn, and drove to the meadowlands for draft day party. I wanted Sean T. as our pick, and then Eli second.
It was a beautiful day that day, we are all in the stadium, watching the draft on the big screen. I still remember the other guys drafted, such as Tommie Harris, who Ithought would be damn good.
Then they closed the doors, and Eli came walking down the steps and everyone cheered.
I hope to make the same drive but to Canton, to see Eli get into the HOF. That would be special, seeing him when he got drafted, and then seeing him give his HOF speech.
I think he either needs one more Superbowl.. or 3-4 more season at his current clip to be a lock.
I think he needs to get to 50,00 yards and 350 plus TD's then I think he is a HOF lock without a third Superbowl.. but without the SB He probably doesnt get in on the first vote.. with the SB He is a lock.
Eli was a phenomenal QB in college because he led what was often an overmatched Ole Miss team to solid performances against most of the SEC. The fact that Ole Miss almost won the SEC West in his senior year with Nick Saban at LSU was amazing in its own right.
Before the draft I thought Collins was good enough and that we just needed a better OL.
After the draft I thought we horrendously overpaid to get Eli. I said with the price we paid Eli had to be as good as Peyton and he had to have an extremely healthy career for the deal to be break even, else were paid too much.
Were that we overpaid, everything I read said that there was not much of a difference between Ben, Eli, and Rivers, and in hindsight, that really is very accurate, there is not much of a difference between the three. So since that was the case, I wanted to trade down and add a pick or two and then land Ben.
I did not want Rivers because I thought his delivery would hurt him in the pro's, and I was wrong. I still think that was the best play.
But with all that said, I am happy with Eli, he is a rock solid guy, and despite what some think, I think he will play at a very high level for another 5 - 7 years.
I also think that now that Beckham is here that his best days may very well be ahead of him. I honestly believe that he will get us 1 more championship. If that happens, then to get three out of him would be something that I would sign on the dotted line for when drafting any QB with the first pick in any draft.
Paul, I would have signed on the dotted line for one title when drafting any QB with the first pick in any draft. We've already gotten much more than we had any right to expect with the 2nd one. A 3rd and we hit the lottery 3 times.
I wanted Eli, but didn't think we had a shot of getting him, especially with the Giants rep for being a conservative organiation. Honestly wasn't sure if the Giants would have the balls to pull of a huge trade, giving up so much. But I was very happy that they did.
I honestly was thinking we were getting a QB that was going to be a notch or two below Peyton. I thought ht was going to be putting up somewhat similar numbers to Peyton week in and week out. Obviously that wasn't the case and I have to admit that for awhile, that really did disappoint me to some degree. But the two SB wins have made all of that fade away into the background for me. Would it be awesome if Eli put up numbers somewhat similar to Peyton on a week in, week out basis? Absolutely. But 2 championships are 2 championships. By the time we got Eli, I was 21 and hadn't seen a championship since I was 7, and I only have small memories from SB 25 because I was alittle kid. Hopefully, we can get 1 more for Eli, and 1 for Beckham while Eli is still here, would be awesome to see those two get one together.
Gallery & Taylor fans. For me it was Eli or Big Ben, but I wanted Eli. I couldn't stand Kerry Collins from the day the keys were handed to him. When the news broke I jumped up in the air pumped my fist and scraped all the skin off my knuckles from hitting the ceiling haha. But it was worth it. In the words of Chris Berman, "Look out, The Giants have a Manning."
I was in school in Boston, and my friends and I took a road trip, leaving at early dawn, and drove to the meadowlands for draft day party. I wanted Sean T. as our pick, and then Eli second.
It was a beautiful day that day, we are all in the stadium, watching the draft on the big screen. I still remember the other guys drafted, such as Tommie Harris, who Ithought would be damn good.
Then they closed the doors, and Eli came walking down the steps and everyone cheered.
I hope to make the same drive but to Canton, to see Eli get into the HOF. That would be special, seeing him when he got drafted, and then seeing him give his HOF speech.
I think he either needs one more Superbowl.. or 3-4 more season at his current clip to be a lock.
I think he needs to get to 50,00 yards and 350 plus TD's then I think he is a HOF lock without a third Superbowl.. but without the SB He probably doesnt get in on the first vote.. with the SB He is a lock.
Qbs with mulitple SBs are in except Jim Plunkett. Eli will get in. His name is Manning not Smith. He has 2 SB MVPs, and he will, assuming he stays healthy will be top 10 in passing yards, TDs, 4th Q wins, and comeback wins.
If that happens, assuming he stays healthy, will they keep him out of the HOF? I highly doubt it. Plus, he has that game streak. So you add that in the mix too. He is one of the toughest QBs in the NFL. Guy takes hits, isn't a running QB, and game after game, makes his start.
Another SB gets him in automatically, but if he keeps piling on stats, he easily gets in. How the hell does someone who is top10 or even top 5, if things break well, get held out of the NFL?
I agree with you though. Look at his stats in year 1 of this fucking system. No more WR goes left, and ELi throws right. Funny how that shit works. Except for that SF game, he had a great season. No OL, no RB game, and just 1 WR. That's amazing for year 1. I want us to pad ELis stats the same way they do for Brees. If that can happen I would really love to see it.
I was 100% wrong, or for at least what we can prove and that was pretty clear by the end of 2006, definite by the end of 2007.
Now, no one knows what history would be like if the Giants drafted Ben instead of Rivers or better yet traded down and drafted Ben instead of Rivers, so I'll go with what I know.
I remember listening WFAN right after the season and Accorsi was on with Mike and the Mad Dog. I remember hearing him carry on about how great Eli was and how the Giants had to get him. I remember thinking that was stupid to be giving that information out. Give other teams the ability to demand more in a trade.
PS Marcus Vick was never even drafted. Carson palmers brother wasn't highly touted. So much for the last name.
Then the details emerged and all of my buddies that are fans of other teams started laughing and mocking the giants and thought we got ripped off. I defended the giants, but acknowledged that it seems like we gave up way too much considering Eli wasn't going to SD and we only moved up a few spots.
The discussions with these guys went on for years and probably ended when Eli won the SB.
I wanted nothing to do with Gallery and was hoping we'd end up with Sean Taylor.
I am feeling great a decade + later, the close friends of mine with me watching the draft, they dont like to talk about that day much these days.
2. OK we got Rivers;
3. Happy we picked him up in a trade;
4. later, #3 tempered by what we gave up;
5. After the '05 Denver game, and '06 mega-comeback vs. Philthy;
6.ECSTATIC. Knew he was the real deal.
Ernie made a mistake when he said publicly that had the deal not come off that he would have taken Ben and slept well. It gave fuel to the fire of the "gave up too much" argument.
Overall, I am happy with Eli and think it was a good move.
It has been a fun ride with Easy E. And if this past year was any indication, we've still got some time.
Yup, if the Giants bomb again next year and assuming he plays better, i'd shoot for Hackenberg (although i could see the Redskins in the running too).
I like big Ben too, Rivers I thought through the ball weird and didn't get his game as much as the other two. So when we got Rivers I was a little bummed and was praying for Eli.
Today you could never move up for what we gave. I never doubted that Eli would work out either. You knew what he was and what he wasn't during the preseason. Honestly that's how I saw it.
The first text I ever sent was to her after the Eli trade. I said something like, "Giants got Eli via a trade, but gave up too much".
I admit, however, that I bought into the Manning name more so than anything. I watched him play a bit, but overall I was just happy we had a Manning of our own. At the very least I assumed we'd be a relevant, winning team for the next decade.
Any team drafting a QB nowadays would be thrilled to have the type of run we've had.
My son was a newborn, and we had a whole draft party here to celebrate. The gloveone stuff on BBI had me convinced we were going to get Eli, and the feeling at the party was somber until the Redskins went on the clock.
Never would have guessed we'd get two titles out of it though.
Lololol
Unfortunately Dad did not live to see the 2007 and 2012 seasons. But he died knowing we had a very promising new team, with a tough new coach and a young, franchise quarterback. That was huge after all he had suffered in the 60s and 70s, when the Giants were crap.
"If the dude’s a dud, we’re totally screwed.
If he turns out to be a great player, any Giant’s success during his tenure would be discounted. 'Hey they just got lucky. They tanked in 03 and picked Eli just because of his family’s name.' ”
I thought Eli was erratic and would struggle in the NFL when blitzed, but Ben, being much bigger and athletic was a better fit for the Giants).
I hated Rivers.
Shows how little I knew even when I was watching college football.
Now I rely on Sy, Colin, etc. and obviously Reese, so it's much less stressful. I see who they draft and then I look the up, watch some film if I can get it (avoid the youtube highlight montages, everyone looks great in those) and scouting reports.
I'm never upset with a pick anymore.
though some (like Bromley) I'll still question, not vehemently like I know he can't succeed, but just where he was drafted versus the consensus about where he should be drafted. and questioning is now about as vocal as I'd get.
Much better for me personally.
I still have positions I feel like the team should fill in FA vs draft and thoughts about what a 1st round pick should contribute - even as a rookie - but that's irrelevant to the actual names.
Eli/Ben and Rivers was a big lesson for me.
Samiam -
JP Losman is who you're thinking about. Can't remember the exact pick off the top of my head but I think he went 22nd or something like that to the Bills. I'll never forget his name because 1) it seems like everyone else, except for Bills fans, has and 2) I remember shortly after the draft an ESPN talking head (I'm pretty sure it was Colin Cowheard) saying that he was going to be the best QB from that draft and me thinking that he was crazy.
Hated that they gave so much up to get him, especially with Ben and Rivers both there for the taking.
I'm not now and wasn't then a 'throw the remote' type guy. I understand that people a lot smarter than me make these decisions with a lot more analysis and research than a guy like me who barely watches any college football. I remember the ESPN website caption after the draft in '04 - "Eli Eli Oh". I was excited from day 1 and have been an Eli guy since.
It was also exciting watching all the information that Gloveone was revealing unfold.
You post a lot of nonsense, but this one takes the cake. You really think a coach like TC, who could have gone elsewhere, didn't want Manning? He wanted to work with KC?
Why, exactly, would he subject himself to trading away a mint and drafting a QB high if he already had a guy under contract at a reasonable cost? Every single paper had KC as a dead man when TC was hired, but you somehow figured out the code that TC was forced to see him go?
From there I went into the concession area and watched draft coverage on a TV ha.,
It's pretty well documented Tom Coughlin wanted little part of "Kelly" Collins as his QB and had zero problems with getting a QB in that draft, with Eli being his favorite of three top guys, putting him in sync for the most part with Ernie.
Even if that wasn't true (again, it is), if the Giants had tied TC to "Kelly" instead of getting him Eli, TC's career would be looked back on being a more classy version of Jeff Fisher's.
I did not want Rivers because I thought his delivery would hurt him in the pro's, and I was wrong. I still think that was the best play.
But with all that said, I am happy with Eli, he is a rock solid guy, and despite what some think, I think he will play at a very high level for another 5 - 7 years.
I also think that now that Beckham is here that his best days may very well be ahead of him. I honestly believe that he will get us 1 more championship. If that happens, then to get three out of him would be something that I would sign on the dotted line for when drafting any QB with the first pick in any draft.
April 25 is a Sunday, the draft's second day when the first selection is the first choice in the fourth round. But the Giants will have it - unless they trade it to help move from No. 4 up to the first, second, or third pick the previous day.
General manager Ernie Accorsi has shown a tendency to trade up in the first round, whether it be a few spots to get cornerback Will Allen in 2001 or one spot to lock up tight end Jeremy Shockey in 2002. Each time the deal was made on the run, as the first round was progressing.
This time, however, the Giants will know the landscape once they decide which player they want in the first round.
If he's quarterback Eli Manning, they will have to trade up to No. 1, where the Chargers reside. If he's offensive tackle Robert Gallery, they will have to trade up to No. 2 (Oakland). If he's quarterback Ben Roethlisberger or wide receiver Larry Fitzgerald, they will have to flip-flop with the Arizona Cardinals at No. 3.
One Giants' official says all those options are being explored, as well as the possibility of sitting tight or even trading down as low as No. 10 (Houston). "We think there are about 10 or 11 top players available in this draft," he added.
Accorsi will know beforehand whether he has a shot at Manning or Gallery, based on what the Chargers or Raiders desire for their pick. San Diego has been secretive in its dealings and had private sessions with both quarterbacks and Gallery. Since they recently traded wide receiver David Boston to Miami, the opening is there for a wide receiver like Fitzgerald or one of the Williamses, Mike or Roy.
The Chargers, with coach Marty Schottenheimer perhaps in his final season, might trade out to gather more picks and instant help at multiple positions. Whichever team winds up in the first spot almost certainly will select Manning as its franchise quarterback of the future.
Price for the Giants? Their No. 1, plus No. 2s this year and in 2005, and a lower pick or a serviceable player.
Oakland's hierarchy has been absent at the top quarterback workouts, indicating new head coach Norv Turner may be willing to go with Rich Gannon this season. "I'd be very surprised if Al Davis doesn't take the tackle [Gallery]," said a longtime draft observer/participant.
Price for the Giants? A flip-flop of No. 1s, this year's No. 2, and a No. 3 this year or in 2005.
Arizona assistant coaches and scouts have been all over the quarterback workouts even though new coach Dennis Green has announced Josh McCown will be his starter this season. Green also is agog over Fitzgerald, who as a high school ballboy for Green in Minnesota once was used to demonstrate the correct way to catch the football to veterans Randy Moss and Cris Carter.
But the Cardinals spent high draft picks on wide receivers Bryant Johnson and rookie of the year Anquan Bolden last year. Does it make sense to select another receiver without having anyone to throw him the ball? Arizona could opt for Roethlisberger.
Price for the Giants? A first-round flip-flop, a No. 3, and that fourth-rounder that kicks off Sunday's session.
There is a wild card who might help the Giants' first-round cause. Tight end Kellen Winslow Jr. could be of interest to Oakland or Arizona, or even San Diego, where his father became a Hall of Fame tight end. The impact Shockey has had with the Giants could rocket his successor at Miami into the top three, and push one of the others down a notch.
Or a team like Detroit at No. 6 or Cleveland at No. 7 might look to trade up with the Giants to grab him before Washington (No. 5) gets a shot at Winslow. Price for Detroit? Probably a third-rounder. Price for Cleveland? Probably third- and fourth-round picks.
Link - ( New Window )
I think I will cut my wrists if this happens. EA has to trade down and get multiple picks. Sure we have signed a lot of players, but they are for depth & insurance. Except for the Emmons-is anyone else a stud. We can walk away with possible 2 first round selections or 2 2nds & 2 3rds. We can get quality and quantity & not make a splash with one pick. This team is a veteran team built to win now. If draft a qb early-we are saying goodbye to the next 2-3 years and should dump all of our aging veterans & rebuild w/youth. How amy more years does Strahan & Toomer have? Sign Collins to a 3 year contract w/ a club option for 4. Draft & pick-up quality June 1 cap cuts & try to win in the next two years.
Follow up comments...
Uh - : FranknWeezer : 4/6 5:21 PM
oh. I think I hear a siren approaching.
Frank: you chasing an : bob in tx : 4/6 5:22 PM
ambulance?
Nah Bob : FranknWeezer : 4/6 5:26 PM
but good one. The lady who's suing my client, a mom & pop grocery store, because a box of cookies fell from a shelf onto her belly when she was pregnant is taking up the bulk of my afternoon. This stuff just gets better and better, and I applaud the creativity, sort of.
If you what you say is true.... : Tom [Giants fan] : 4/6 5:27 PM
and the Giants are built to win now, Gallery would be the smartest choice. And I do agree the Giants are built to win now. They need Gallery to make that OLine very good. Gallery, Diehl, O'Hara, Seubert, Petitgout is a pretty solid line. Let's just hope there aren't nearly as many injuries here as last year.
Does she recall the name of the cookies? : Big Blue '56 : 4/6 5:59 PM
Could be probative down the road...
Trading down : Blue Blood : 4/6 7:04 PM
would be a HUGE mistake.. This is not a deep draft..
BB... : Capt. Don : 4/6 7:10 PM
not a deep draft? you start drinking early? this is an incredibly deep draft, especially from 1-10 and in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. there are 4 legit potential #1 picks in this draft. i dont know the last time that happened. but make no mistake this is a very good draft.
I agree : viccoach : 4/6 7:18 PM
when the draft is deep & loaded, you get as many as you can. Draft picks are at a premium. Stock pile this year with an impact player, quality depth at positions we are getting long in the tooth in, get speed for defense & special teams. We have a small window, 2 or 3 years to win a championship before we dismantle this team and build over again. Strahan, Barber, Toomer, Collins are not young chickens anymore.
Plus, while all this was going on, Steve and his lovely wife, a kosher catering team, provided the most DELICIOUS spread and put me up over the weekend...OMG, it was sooooo scrumptious.
Even if we didn't get shit in the draft, that weekend was some of the best non-stop eating I've done in my life: chicken wings, blueberry tart, Maryland crab cakes (we ate those at a restaurant), everything.
Just fabulous BBI hospitality and a wonderful visit with Bob in Annapolis (RIP). THANK YOU, Steve!!!
First, we draft Rivers and the thought is WTF???
Then, I hear about the trade and I think "Awesome".
Then, I find out how much we gave up and I think "holy shit, that is alot...but ok"
Then, I find out (much later) that we could have swapped picks with Cleveland and still drafted Rivers and I got a little pissed off at Acorsi.
still do, Big Ben plus the draft picks would have been better. We'd still be relevant instead of rebuilding.Happy that Ernie finally atoned for his Elway fiasco though, can you swim in that thing Ernie?
However, I took a wait and see approach.
as it turned out, it was a (few more years?) before we got the line, however, the QB has ...well, we all agree. thx for that, its been fun.
I was over the moon excited that there was a possibility to even get Eli. I do remember not wanting to give up Osi in the trade and it seemed like AJ Smith was hung up on getting Osi. When it went through without Osi I went nuts. I was so pumped and part of the reason was I thought Eli was really clutch at Ole Miss and showed the exact type of late game heroics and clutchness that we have seen help us win 2 Super Bowls. He was taking a team with zero potential NFL players on it and winning big games late against top 10 teams almost by himself. I thought he distinguished himself from Payton in that way in college. He was much more clutch and that has certainly proved itself over his NFL career.
It turned out how it turned out.
Would be interesting to turn back the clock and see how we would have done with one of the other 2.
Otherwise loved it. It was great. The consensus #1 player and QB in the draft. How do you not love that.
is that a #56 jersey in your closet?
bottom line, Eli's won what Eli has won, can't explain it, I'll love him forever but given Ben and the draft picks we're still playing tomorrow with no good argument that we don't have what Eli brought us so far.
And as good/great as Ben is as a QB, he's never been an Aaron Rodgers type that automatically guarantees a winning season/playoff appearance just on his presence.
The Giants would almost certainly still be sucking even with him.
And I thought Roethlisberger was better. Still do.
But glad we didn't keep Rivers. Never trusted his arm strength.
And I thought Roethlisberger was better. Still do.
But glad we didn't keep Rivers. Never trusted his arm strength.
I don't think it was gutless. Rather it took guts to stick to your guns when it wouldn't be popular and you would catch major scrutiny for it.
And Big Ben would been a disaster here.
Give him his due The Rug got it right. His legacy as an NFL executive was made that day in the Giants War Room.
Give him his due The Rug got it right. His legacy as an NFL executive was made that day in the Giants War Room.
actually the browns wanted to trade spots with us and would have given up I believe their second and perhaps another pick.
That would have been Ben R and 5 additional picks vs Eli.
It was a beautiful day that day, we are all in the stadium, watching the draft on the big screen. I still remember the other guys drafted, such as Tommie Harris, who Ithought would be damn good.
Then they closed the doors, and Eli came walking down the steps and everyone cheered.
I hope to make the same drive but to Canton, to see Eli get into the HOF. That would be special, seeing him when he got drafted, and then seeing him give his HOF speech.
It was a beautiful day that day, we are all in the stadium, watching the draft on the big screen. I still remember the other guys drafted, such as Tommie Harris, who Ithought would be damn good.
Then they closed the doors, and Eli came walking down the steps and everyone cheered.
I hope to make the same drive but to Canton, to see Eli get into the HOF. That would be special, seeing him when he got drafted, and then seeing him give his HOF speech.
I think he either needs one more Superbowl.. or 3-4 more season at his current clip to be a lock.
I think he needs to get to 50,00 yards and 350 plus TD's then I think he is a HOF lock without a third Superbowl.. but without the SB He probably doesnt get in on the first vote.. with the SB He is a lock.
It was.
After the draft I thought we horrendously overpaid to get Eli. I said with the price we paid Eli had to be as good as Peyton and he had to have an extremely healthy career for the deal to be break even, else were paid too much.
I did not want Rivers because I thought his delivery would hurt him in the pro's, and I was wrong. I still think that was the best play.
But with all that said, I am happy with Eli, he is a rock solid guy, and despite what some think, I think he will play at a very high level for another 5 - 7 years.
I also think that now that Beckham is here that his best days may very well be ahead of him. I honestly believe that he will get us 1 more championship. If that happens, then to get three out of him would be something that I would sign on the dotted line for when drafting any QB with the first pick in any draft.
Paul, I would have signed on the dotted line for one title when drafting any QB with the first pick in any draft. We've already gotten much more than we had any right to expect with the 2nd one. A 3rd and we hit the lottery 3 times.
I honestly was thinking we were getting a QB that was going to be a notch or two below Peyton. I thought ht was going to be putting up somewhat similar numbers to Peyton week in and week out. Obviously that wasn't the case and I have to admit that for awhile, that really did disappoint me to some degree. But the two SB wins have made all of that fade away into the background for me. Would it be awesome if Eli put up numbers somewhat similar to Peyton on a week in, week out basis? Absolutely. But 2 championships are 2 championships. By the time we got Eli, I was 21 and hadn't seen a championship since I was 7, and I only have small memories from SB 25 because I was alittle kid. Hopefully, we can get 1 more for Eli, and 1 for Beckham while Eli is still here, would be awesome to see those two get one together.
Quote:
I was in school in Boston, and my friends and I took a road trip, leaving at early dawn, and drove to the meadowlands for draft day party. I wanted Sean T. as our pick, and then Eli second.
It was a beautiful day that day, we are all in the stadium, watching the draft on the big screen. I still remember the other guys drafted, such as Tommie Harris, who Ithought would be damn good.
Then they closed the doors, and Eli came walking down the steps and everyone cheered.
I hope to make the same drive but to Canton, to see Eli get into the HOF. That would be special, seeing him when he got drafted, and then seeing him give his HOF speech.
I think he either needs one more Superbowl.. or 3-4 more season at his current clip to be a lock.
I think he needs to get to 50,00 yards and 350 plus TD's then I think he is a HOF lock without a third Superbowl.. but without the SB He probably doesnt get in on the first vote.. with the SB He is a lock.
Qbs with mulitple SBs are in except Jim Plunkett. Eli will get in. His name is Manning not Smith. He has 2 SB MVPs, and he will, assuming he stays healthy will be top 10 in passing yards, TDs, 4th Q wins, and comeback wins.
If that happens, assuming he stays healthy, will they keep him out of the HOF? I highly doubt it. Plus, he has that game streak. So you add that in the mix too. He is one of the toughest QBs in the NFL. Guy takes hits, isn't a running QB, and game after game, makes his start.
Another SB gets him in automatically, but if he keeps piling on stats, he easily gets in. How the hell does someone who is top10 or even top 5, if things break well, get held out of the NFL?
I agree with you though. Look at his stats in year 1 of this fucking system. No more WR goes left, and ELi throws right. Funny how that shit works. Except for that SF game, he had a great season. No OL, no RB game, and just 1 WR. That's amazing for year 1. I want us to pad ELis stats the same way they do for Brees. If that can happen I would really love to see it.