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Love team but what ownership is doing is unfair to the fans

Jolly_Blue_Giant : 1/3/2015 1:46 pm
I appreciate continuity and how the organization treats it's employees with more class than most. It certainly has it's place but to a point.

When the same issues on Defense rear their ugly head year after year and you turn a blind eye toward it that is unacceptable.

Our blind loyalty is unfair to the fans and greatly affects the quality of the product on the field.

Fewell's defense has broken historical records for ineptitude and quite truthfully should have been replaced 1-2 years ago.

Many may feel alot falls on the players and it may to an extent but DC is perhaps one of the most important coaching positions in ALL of sports.

We saw similiar defensive personell win a Superbowl going from Lewis to Spagnuolo in his first year here.

We saw Cowher win a superbowl when he brought in LeBeau. We saw the Rams win one when they brought in Lovie Smith etc.

The blind loyalty of ownership and Coughlin and desire to shelter and protect their own is clouding their judgement.

We saw a sizeable leap in the offense when Gilbride was replaced despite probably being one of the least talented units we've ever had under TC.

I see a similar big jump especially if JPP is retained IF we finally make the right (well overdue) move of replacing Fewell with a DC that takes advantage of our players strengths not hinders them with confusing schemes and zone coverages.

Don't throw another year down the toilet Gmen. It's time we have both an OC and DC that put their players in best position to succeed.
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only about 20% of you understand the nfl and the Giants  
NYG4246 : 1/3/2015 10:57 pm : link
This team is going to win another Super Bowl. when that happens dont act like youre Giant fans....go put on a jetplane jersey. Most of you just cry and complain. I think the guys who have been running one of the most succesfull franchises in football history know what theyre doing.
RE: only about 20% of you understand the nfl and the Giants  
Jolly_Blue_Giant : 1/3/2015 11:00 pm : link
In comment 12070708 NYG4246 said:
Quote:
This team is going to win another Super Bowl. when that happens dont act like youre Giant fans....go put on a jetplane jersey. Most of you just cry and complain. I think the guys who have been running one of the most succesfull franchises in football history know what theyre doing.


We can nitpick nicey nicey stats with almost any defense over a five year stretch. The statistical list of HISTORIC bad numbers under Perry outweighs all that .
Retaining Fewell  
BigBlueCane : 1/3/2015 11:05 pm : link
will not help this team win another SB. The constant miscommunications and blunders will continue and people will still act amazed when they do. Mostly it will be the same people that are defending PF now.
I have to agree  
Matt M. : 1/3/2015 11:34 pm : link
First of all, I think he should have been fired 3 years ago. I am not usually one to advocate for firing a coach mid-season, but there have been about 4 or 5 points over the last 3 years that I think Fewell should have just been let go. He needs to go and Quinn had overseen terrible ST play for longer.

In this case, I agree that retaining these guys just sets a terrible example for the fans. Ownership keeps claiming they are fed up with losing, they will make changes, etc. Then nothing. I really don't know what I will do if Fewell is retained. I won't abandon this team. But, my expectations will be very low and I can't see watching next year with much passion.
Thank goodness the team is actually run by paid professionals  
baadbill : 1/3/2015 11:59 pm : link
rather than by popular vote by BBI amateurs.
I think TC is worried about his lame duck year  
#10* : 1/4/2015 12:50 am : link
and thinks a new defense is going to take too much of his time. Interviewing and hiring a new DC and then the growing pains that we saw with the offense.

Well..Spags wont be  
Goin Deep : 1/4/2015 1:23 am : link
coming here for at least another week. Watch him on tv vs
New England.
Everyone talks about what great fans New York has.  
3putt : 1/4/2015 9:51 am : link
I am not a Yankee fan and I have always hated that sense of entitlement Yankee fans have: that they should be able to go out and buy the best player at every position.

I have always looked down on those Metropolitan area fans who became Cowboy fans when the Giants were in down times.

I hated when Giant fans claimed the Maras were cheap, even though there was a hard cap.

The plain fact is that New York fans are no better or worse than any other fans and we are about to undergo a period of time when those "front-runners" and those "Steinbrennerites" and the anti-Irish are about to jump ship and become Cowboy fans and Seahawks fans. All this talk now is just an attempt to justify their traitorous and cowardly desertion.

With tongue firmly in cheek
Fewell is no longer my concern  
Spock : 1/4/2015 9:54 am : link
I'm going to believe TC will make sure he succeeds if retained. Healthy players will help bring that to pass too.
another pro Fewell post here  
aquidneck : 1/4/2015 11:09 am : link
TC deserves to have his own guys at his side in his last year as HC of the Giants. Fewell, Quinn are clearly those guys.

If we succeed in 2015 our 2016 HC is Fewell or MacAdoo. If we fail 2016 brings an all-new cast of characters.
RE: I have to agree  
Jolly_Blue_Giant : 1/4/2015 4:00 pm : link
In comment 12070828 Matt M. said:
Quote:
First of all, I think he should have been fired 3 years ago. I am not usually one to advocate for firing a coach mid-season, but there have been about 4 or 5 points over the last 3 years that I think Fewell should have just been let go. He needs to go and Quinn had overseen terrible ST play for longer.

In this case, I agree that retaining these guys just sets a terrible example for the fans. Ownership keeps claiming they are fed up with losing, they will make changes, etc. Then nothing. I really don't know what I will do if Fewell is retained. I won't abandon this team. But, my expectations will be very low and I can't see watching next year with much passion.


It's astonishing how many have forgotten the record breaking number of yards given up in like 3 of 5 of Fewell's campaigns.

Regardless of how lacking some may have thought the talent was (IMO it was usually at least average and many times well above avg) the talent was never that pathetically lacking to justify the truly abysmal performance on the field.
I haven't read the entire thread...  
Dan in the Springs : 1/4/2015 4:34 pm : link
But this quote from the thread starter needed fixed:

Quote:
We saw the Rams win one when they brought in Lovie Smith etc


Rams won the SB with Giunta at DC, and lost in a big upset to NE with Love Smith.
RE: I haven't read the entire thread...  
Jolly_Blue_Giant : 1/4/2015 4:41 pm : link
In comment 12071875 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
But this quote from the thread starter needed fixed:



Quote:


We saw the Rams win one when they brought in Lovie Smith etc



Rams won the SB with Giunta at DC, and lost in a big upset to NE with Love Smith.


Thanks for the correction, I thought they won a Supe with him. However, his addition did still make a huge difference:

From Wiki

While in St. Louis, Smith improved the Rams defense, which went from giving up a league-worst 29.4 points per game in 2000 to an average of 17.1 points in 2001. The Rams won the 2001 NFC Championship and advanced to Super Bowl XXXVI. The team ultimately lost to the New England Patriots.
RE: There were zero Superbowl rings  
dcable : 1/4/2015 4:57 pm : link
In comment 12070014 Josh in MD said:
Quote:
when Wellington Mara was making executive decisions, and none in sight, only year after year of lousy football. When Giant fans finally rebelled, the NFL pressured Mara into yielding control. Young-Accorsi-Reese have brought in 4 championships, but in the last couple of years, as the ship has sunk deeper, the Maras suddenly are again the face of the franchise and sounding as if they are calling the shots. For a Giants-lover this is very scary. And it got a lot scarier in the last few days as John M told us the team's troubles were essentially due to injuries and that his plan to improve is to hope for better luck.


Well put and totally correct. What I see now is similar to years ago prior to George Young era. Kiwi was starting as DE even though he was rated near the bottom of all DE's. Why? TC's ;oyalty to him. And this goes on through out this organmization. Its weird that so many on here keep going back to the 2 SB wins and dismiss the ineptitude and the country club setting that is existent now.

The players seeing this has to effect their performance as well. As long as their fans keep buying tickets and show up to the games, why should ownership make necessary changes?
RE: RE: There were zero Superbowl rings  
Jolly_Blue_Giant : 1/4/2015 5:12 pm : link
In comment 12071957 dcable said:
Quote:
In comment 12070014 Josh in MD said:


Quote:


when Wellington Mara was making executive decisions, and none in sight, only year after year of lousy football. When Giant fans finally rebelled, the NFL pressured Mara into yielding control. Young-Accorsi-Reese have brought in 4 championships, but in the last couple of years, as the ship has sunk deeper, the Maras suddenly are again the face of the franchise and sounding as if they are calling the shots. For a Giants-lover this is very scary. And it got a lot scarier in the last few days as John M told us the team's troubles were essentially due to injuries and that his plan to improve is to hope for better luck.



Well put and totally correct. What I see now is similar to years ago prior to George Young era. Kiwi was starting as DE even though he was rated near the bottom of all DE's. Why? TC's ;oyalty to him. And this goes on through out this organmization. Its weird that so many on here keep going back to the 2 SB wins and dismiss the ineptitude and the country club setting that is existent now.

The players seeing this has to effect their performance as well. As long as their fans keep buying tickets and show up to the games, why should ownership make necessary changes?


Though it has improved somewhat over recent years, there is still alot of stubbornness and tunnel vision pervading this organization.

One of the biggest (which lies mainly with TC) is forcing players to adapt to the system rather than adjusting the system to accentuate your players best strengths.

The offensive system has finally been addressed in this regard ,let's pray the D (and heck maybe even STs) is next
RE: Tom Coughlin  
D_Giants : 1/4/2015 7:34 pm : link
In comment 12069833 RetroJint said:
Quote:
has given Giants fans more than they could have ever dreamed for. He has not been unduly loyal to anyone. If he thinks Fewell is his best play in a win-or-else season, and you complain, that says more about your loyalty issues. By the way, the Giants dont owe you anything. You are not a shareholder. What you are is an emotional stakeholder. I hear that a lot now. Giants fans are owed something. In the NL, I have rooted for the Cubs for 50 years. I have a Cubs hoodie on right now. They do not owe me anything.


Before you canonize a coach, think of 1970s Steelers. It's not a question of obligation. The only reason these teams have money to field a team is because folks pay to watch them: either directly by going to the stadium, or by spending 2 hours in every three-hour game watching beer and car commercials.
RE: RE: I haven't read the entire thread...  
Dan in the Springs : 1/5/2015 1:43 am : link
In comment 12071887 Jolly_Blue_Giant said:
Quote:
In comment 12071875 Dan in the Springs said:


Quote:


But this quote from the thread starter needed fixed:



Quote:


We saw the Rams win one when they brought in Lovie Smith etc



Rams won the SB with Giunta at DC, and lost in a big upset to NE with Love Smith.



Thanks for the correction, I thought they won a Supe with him. However, his addition did still make a huge difference:

From Wiki

While in St. Louis, Smith improved the Rams defense, which went from giving up a league-worst 29.4 points per game in 2000 to an average of 17.1 points in 2001. The Rams won the 2001 NFC Championship and advanced to Super Bowl XXXVI. The team ultimately lost to the New England Patriots.



I remember well those Rams teams. My best friend at the time was a lifelong Rams fan. The Rams with Giunta as DC spent most of the year as the #2 defense in the league. They finished fairly highly ranked overall under Giunta.

The thing about being a defense on a Martz-led team is that the offense put the defense in terrible spot after terrible spot. Martz didn't care - he played to score and dared teams to keep up with him. Every single defensive coordinator had bad years working with Martz, and only Giunta and Lovie each had one good year.

The reason I make a point of this is that you can't just go on Wikipedia and decide who is a good coach and who isn't. Coaches do a heck of a lot more that doesn't show up in the box scores. Fans who look at box scores are missing the bigger picture. They fail to ask important questions like why did Giunta have a top defense one year, then the worst in the league the next, then good again the year after that, etc?

Why does Fewell have the record he has? How is it that a team that through the first five games of the year were 0-5 and had given up no less than 31 points per game, but later ended up going 7-4 and only gave up >30 points once, eventually ranking as a top ten defense?

Some people would say it was because they ran into five bad backup quarterbacks in a row. No doubt that helped. But with a completely inept offense that put them in so many bad positions, how were they able to keep 10 of their final 11 opponents below their season averages for points scored?

Some might say it was the addition of Beason to the defense, combined with the return of Will Hill from suspension. Beason, the same guy who was beat out of his starting position in Carolina by of all people, Chase Blackburn? The guy who was let go for a measly day three draft pick?

Does a coach actually get any credit for taking a team mid-season and showing improvements? Should we not consider everything when evaluating our coaches?

I don't mean to say that Fewell would be my top choice to coach this team. What I'm saying is that you can't just look up results in wikipedia to determine who is a good coach and why. You need to give a little credit to the guys who have spent an entire career around coaches and who have won to be able to evaluate a coach for his actual ability to be effective.

Coach Coughlin knows coaching, and he knows how to evaluate coaches, and all he wants to do is win the Super Bowl this next year. Give him a chance to pick out his staff and you can be sure that it will be the best coaching staff he could assemble. That should be good enough for you and for me.
Personally Dan  
Jolly_Blue_Giant : 1/5/2015 3:19 am : link
for many of the reasons Anish ,Joey in VA, and area junc have given (among others) I think Fewells defensive philosophy is a horrible fit for our personell and he has repeatedly failed to adjust away from it.
well I'm fine with that...  
Dan in the Springs : 1/5/2015 7:15 am : link
And I'm personally hoping Coach Coughlin sees it that way too. His smiling on the sideline when Seattle kept running the read option against us this year made me hope for change there now.
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