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Difference between 6-10 and 10-6

nybeast : 1/4/2015 1:40 pm
I just watched Bob Papa's recap of the 2014 season and I was strucked by how this season could have easily been a playoff season, even with the injuries. It gave credence to what Jerry Reese said in his press conference about some of the losses this year owing to the failure of the defense, offense and special teams in various games. This actually gives me some optimism going into next year, if we can have everyone back healthy and on the same page.

But there were at least 4 gams (ARZ, DAL, SF, JAX) the Giants definitely should have won, which results in a 10-6 season and two additional division games that were winnable that would have put us into the playoffs (DAL and PHIL) at 12-4.

Here are the should/could have won games:
Week 2 Arizona: Special teams sh** the bed
Week 7 Dallas: Donnell Special
Week 11 SF: Really Bad Eli
Week 12 Dallas: Defense not worth a damn
Week 13 Jacksonville: Offense coughed it up
Week 17 Philly: Specials Teams, Defense and Offense missed plays

Next year we supposedly have an easier schedule, but we have to beat Dallas my goodness!

GIants to me are also  
Simms11 : 1/4/2015 1:49 pm : link
lacking some leadership. We have vets on this team that are supposed leaders (ie. Rolle), however, I do not see enough crunch time leadership. That intangible to me is something that they seriously have to look at going in to next season too.

I think the loss of Tuck on the DLine and Beason with the LBers was pretty big. Additionally, we need that guy on the Oline too, like a Chris Snee, Rich Seubert or David Diehl.
"You are  
George : 1/4/2015 1:50 pm : link
What your record says you are."
the Jets could do the same thing  
5J : 1/4/2015 1:54 pm : link
And with theit what if games. Most teams could.
I think there's a dfference  
nybeast : 1/4/2015 1:55 pm : link
between an overachieving 6-10 and an underachieving 6-10. There are 6-10 teams that are happy because they should have been 2-14 and then there's this year's Giants team that truly should have been 9-7 at worst but shot themselves in the foot. Last year's Giants team was lucky to be 7-9, This year's team was unlucky to be 6-10.
We are horrible  
Shockwave : 1/4/2015 1:56 pm : link
Francessa says so
This Current defense cannot  
Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) : 1/4/2015 1:58 pm : link
Stop anyone when it has to ... I think our O can score on anyone!

You need your leaders on D to be able to also lead by example by making big plays, otherwise it falls on deaf ears which appears to have happened. Rolle did Not have even an average year .....
you are buying in to their BS propaganda  
ZogZerg : 1/4/2015 2:00 pm : link
The Giants sucked ass against good teams. Even before the injuries mounted.
That's pretty much what not being good  
bradshaw44 : 1/4/2015 2:02 pm : link
is...
Simms11 nailed it.  
BlueinRoch : 1/4/2015 2:05 pm : link
Th loss of Beason was huge for the D. We need someone to step in and fill that roll. The O-Line also needs a leader and I hope that Pugh can step up. Whether he ends up at Guard or stays at Tackle, I think he can be the guy.
There were only 4 no doubt losses this season  
nybeast : 1/4/2015 2:05 pm : link
DET, INDY, PHILLY, and SEA. Other than those 4 games, the Giants either won, should have won, or could have won. Again, we are what we are, but considering the injuries, i was just struck by how easily this could have been a playoff season. Especially with how well Eli played this season overall.
I agree with the thread starter  
JOrthman : 1/4/2015 2:06 pm : link
and I've been saying it most of the year. I don't think we are that far off.
I agree  
UConn4523 : 1/4/2015 2:14 pm : link
these shitty games tell me all I need to know. Giants need some injury luck and a couple more impact players. Things really went that bad.
It's because  
AnishPatel : 1/4/2015 2:24 pm : link
we weren't a good team that we lost those games. Good teams find ways to win those games, and we didn't do that. Reese was right all 3 phases let us down throughtout the season.

I think we are 2-3 years away assuming our guys can stay healthy, we draft well, and get good free agents.

I don't think we are a good team. I think our offense still needs work and more talent. Our DC our system is god awful, and we lack talent as well. Maybe we can turn it around, but my expectations is 2-3 years away.

AriZona was not just in special teams  
ligmen : 1/4/2015 2:25 pm : link
If cruz makes that clutch wide open pass we win the game. People forget before the injury, cruz had frying pans for hands the first 3 games.
Giants propaganda.  
RDJR : 1/4/2015 2:26 pm : link
Woulda, coulda, shoulda. In sports losing teams' fans always say these things.
your case is that all areas of our team failed  
twostepgiants : 1/4/2015 2:31 pm : link
And you think that this is somehow a case for making us better?
Team needs  
wash88 : 1/4/2015 2:37 pm : link
Motivating coaches...start with
Spags...in your face guy. TC
is all talk..and a lamb on gameday.
Gets tough w rookies. Lamb
w veterans. Parcells would have
benched Eli several times.
RE: Giants propaganda.  
UConn4523 : 1/4/2015 2:37 pm : link
In comment 12071583 RDJR said:
Quote:
Woulda, coulda, shoulda. In sports losing teams' fans always say these things.


That's a very throw away way to look at things. If you don't see how easy it is for teams to turn things around in the NFL then you aren't paying attention.
anyone  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/4/2015 2:37 pm : link
who watched the Giants last year knows they were not competitive against good teams.
Losing games you should win  
Mike from Ohio : 1/4/2015 2:38 pm : link
is kind of the definition of a bad team. This could probably be done for almost all teams that missed the playoffs, save 4 or 5 very bad teams.

As mentioned above, the fact that it is sometimes the offense, sometimes the defense, and sometimes the special teams is an argument we are farther away from winning than if it were just one facet of the team we could focus on.

This team has some good pieces in place, but there is a lot of work to do before this is a playoff team.
go  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/4/2015 2:40 pm : link
back and look at the scores from the last three years and see how many times this team was blown out.
RE: There were only 4 no doubt losses this season  
Riggies : 1/4/2015 2:41 pm : link
In comment 12071557 nybeast said:
Quote:
DET, INDY, PHILLY, and SEA. Other than those 4 games, the Giants either won, should have won, or could have won. Again, we are what we are, but considering the injuries, i was just struck by how easily this could have been a playoff season. Especially with how well Eli played this season overall.


Or you can look at it this way: the QB generally played well (top ten ish) and they still went 6-10 and were out of the playoff race by the end of October.

A team is not a good team or close, in the current day NFL, when that happens.
RE: It's because  
AnnapolisMike : 1/4/2015 2:44 pm : link
In comment 12071577 AnishPatel said:
Quote:


I think we are 2-3 years away assuming our guys can stay healthy, we draft well, and get good free agents.



Fix the oline, keep and add a little talent on D and stay healthy and they are a playoff team. . If you have a QB you are never that far away. .
What if what if what if  
0DB13 : 1/4/2015 2:44 pm : link
I hate playing the what if game. What if we don't blow a 31-10 lead against Philly im 2010. What if we beat the Redskins on Monday night in 2012 What if Plax doesn't shoot himself in 2008
diference between 6-10 and 10-6  
mdc1 : 1/4/2015 2:45 pm : link
6-10 is 0% percent of teams making playoffs
10-6 is around 88% but ask the eagles about that.
I would love to have hope, however, until  
RDJR : 1/4/2015 2:46 pm : link
we fix both the OL and the DL we will struggle. OBJ and Eli may have had career years but it doesn't matter unless you can run the ball and stop the run. I have not seen any effort from this staff to improve either area. Remember, we went from 7-9 to 6-10. Trending downward.
RE: RE: It's because  
Riggies : 1/4/2015 2:49 pm : link
In comment 12071618 AnnapolisMike said:
Quote:
In comment 12071577 AnishPatel said:


Quote:




I think we are 2-3 years away assuming our guys can stay healthy, we draft well, and get good free agents.





Fix the oline, keep and add a little talent on D and stay healthy and they are a playoff team. . If you have a QB you are never that far away. .


Unless your team sucks to a point where it makes having a franchise QB irrelevant, like the Giants do (and Falcons and possibly now the Saints).

They've missed the playoffs 5/6 seasons now. If being a contender isn't far away, it's only because it's been the general existing reality for years now, outside of one bizarre, but glorious hot streak.
I said this before  
mdc1 : 1/4/2015 2:49 pm : link
but TC does not have a great record in terms of winning our division beyond the stifling records that limit our ability to get into the playoffs. He is moving from splitting to fighting for the bottom with the skins. Does not bode well for him (TC) unless he suddenly figures out how to sweep the Cowboys and Eagles (horrible track record).
RE: RE: It's because  
AnishPatel : 1/4/2015 2:50 pm : link
In comment 12071618 AnnapolisMike said:
Quote:
In comment 12071577 AnishPatel said:


Quote:




I think we are 2-3 years away assuming our guys can stay healthy, we draft well, and get good free agents.





Fix the oline, keep and add a little talent on D and stay healthy and they are a playoff team. . If you have a QB you are never that far away. .


We have a QB yet our record is getting worse. I agree we need OL. We need more skill players to help. Outside of OBJ, I am not confident on everyone else. I am going to treat Cruz like the team did with Wilson, and assume he won't be back to normal, but if he is, then very good.

The D needs LBs, safeties, and let's about the DL. Also, the system sucks, so that's a big one.

We have a QB but can we maximize his prime while we get all shit squared away? I guess we have to see but I think it will take more time.

RE: RE: RE: It's because  
Riggies : 1/4/2015 2:51 pm : link
In comment 12071632 Riggies said:
Quote:
In comment 12071618 AnnapolisMike said:


Quote:


In comment 12071577 AnishPatel said:


Quote:




I think we are 2-3 years away assuming our guys can stay healthy, we draft well, and get good free agents.





Fix the oline, keep and add a little talent on D and stay healthy and they are a playoff team. . If you have a QB you are never that far away. .



Unless your team sucks to a point where it makes having a franchise QB irrelevant, like the Giants do (and Falcons and possibly now the Saints).

They've missed the playoffs 5/6 seasons now. If being a contender isn't far away, it's only because it's been the general existing reality for years now, outside of one bizarre, but glorious hot streak.


*if not being a contender, not being
God forbid management thinks like this.  
Phil in Joisey : 1/4/2015 4:31 pm : link
Change is needed. The Giants are NOT a playoff team at the moment. Fix the defense and the offensive line and then let's see what can be accomplished. The Giants did not go 6-10 due to a few bad breaks here and there - - - - they did it the old fashioned way.....THEY EARNED IT!
When we get our redo against AZ  
Bill in UT : 1/4/2015 4:44 pm : link
do they get to play their starting QB (Palmer) instead of Stanton and have all their injured guys healthy?
Difference between 6-10 and 10-6  
MOOPS : 1/4/2015 4:54 pm : link
We beat one team with a winning record (Houston).
Our 6 wins came against 5 teams with a combined record of 27-55.
We did not beat any teams that went to the playoffs.
Per John Mara's definition, we did not play any meaningful games after November 23.
Without Beckham on the roster, the Giants would have been unwatchable.

There, I fixed that for you.

The point I was making is being lost in typical fan gripes  
nybeast : 1/4/2015 5:13 pm : link
I accept that we ended 6-10. But there is no doubt that the difference between how we ended and playing this playoff weekend was well within the grasp of the Giants, despite the injuries. The games I listed were all winnable. Any person watching those games or the recap to the season by Bob Papa can't deny that Giants had those teams beat, but instead beat themselves.

I know and accept, it is what it is, but it is not crazy to understand that with OBJ, a good Eli and a healthy defense, the Giants can make the playoffs next year,.
Does not compute  
JonC : 1/4/2015 5:53 pm : link
This roster 100% healthy was an 8-9 win team. Improved over 2013, we saw much less inept performances etc, but the OL and defense struggled and they typically weren't competitive against quality football teams. The trends have been clear since the midway mark of the 2012 season. Part of it is cultural (e.g. Fewell's consistently undisciplined defense blowing assignments regularly).

Significantly overly optimistic premise.

Remember  
JonC : 1/4/2015 5:58 pm : link
bad or even average football teams exhibit the patterns and being overmatched and repeating mistakes the Giants have since midway 2012. It is who they are until they're talented enough to not be.
look at it another way:  
bluepepper : 1/4/2015 5:59 pm : link
even if we won half the games you listed we still would have been only 9-7 and out of the playoffs.
The Giants were bad this year - accept with it...  
HelmetCatch : 1/4/2015 6:00 pm : link
You'll be happier...
Help me understand...  
Mark C : 1/4/2015 6:28 pm : link
On what planet should we have won a game against the 49ers in which Eli throws four picks?
The 2013 and 2014 GIANTS were awful teams  
Red Dog : 1/4/2015 6:41 pm : link
who could not compete with the good teams in the league.

They consistently lost in the trenches on both sides of the ball. They lost the turnover battles. They lost in the secondary on defense. They lost the special teams battle of field position and the special teams battle of big plays.

They flat out stunk and any attempt to explain it away as bad luck or close losses is complete and total bullshit.

They stunk. Period.
IM amazing O:  
mrvax : 1/4/2015 6:54 pm : link
I believe that with the injuries incurred in 2014, the team was limited to an 8 win season, max. Had they won 8 games with the rag-tag unit they brought out each week, we could really look forward to something special next year.

If we had just 1/2 the injuries to starters that we had, this team would have been considerably better.

It was a watered down NFL,  
Doomster : 1/4/2015 9:32 pm : link
and we couldn't take advantage of it.....

Remember, every time you say what if the Giants didn't do this/that, the other team can say the same thing....
If we re hire Fewell  
Paulie Walnuts : 1/4/2015 10:48 pm : link
and quinn, we are fooked
RE: anyone  
SGMen : 1/4/2015 10:58 pm : link
In comment 12071602 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
who watched the Giants last year knows they were not competitive against good teams.
Agreed. Seattle beat the crap out of the Giants in 2nd half as did Indy.
RE: anyone  
SGMen : 1/4/2015 11:18 pm : link
In comment 12071602 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
who watched the Giants last year knows they were not competitive against good teams.
Agreed. Seattle beat the crap out of the Giants in 2nd half as did Indy.
RE: Does not compute  
BigBlueinChicago : 1/4/2015 11:54 pm : link
In comment 12072252 JonC said:
Quote:
This roster 100% healthy was an 8-9 win team. Improved over 2013, we saw much less inept performances etc, but the OL and defense struggled and they typically weren't competitive against quality football teams. The trends have been clear since the midway mark of the 2012 season. Part of it is cultural (e.g. Fewell's consistently undisciplined defense blowing assignments regularly).

Significantly overly optimistic premise.


+1

Since the start of the 2012 season, the Giants are 6-19 against teams that finished the season with a winning record.

After a while, the sample size gets too big to explain away 6-19 as just saying the Giants have had some "bad luck" in these games and that a play here or there would have them on the better side of this record.
FWIW, I completely agree with the premise of the thread...  
Dan in the Springs : 1/5/2015 12:02 am : link
I get that we are a 6-10 team. Just like all the posters here are making the point that we only beat bad teams, that we get blown out against good/great teams, I think it's fair to say that we are better than the worst teams. There were another 3-4 games that we really should have won, including the Arizona game.

It doesn't change the outcome to think that way - it just changes the perspective you have on what might be possible next year. I really believe it's a matter of choice - you can choose to be pessimistic and think this team is a long way away from competing, or you can believe that we were closer this year than our record indicated, and with the return of healthy players, continued improvement of the young guys, and another good draft/free agency period, we could be able to seriously compete for the playoffs next year.

Maybe not dominant - like the 2008 team was - but good enough to win the division and be in the playoffs where anything can happen.
Bullshit, they were lucky to even be 6-10  
Victor in CT : 1/5/2015 8:55 am : link
......
I think the needle is pointing up  
JonC : 1/5/2015 8:59 am : link
and we have prime resources to use in the '15 draft, and enough cap space on reserve to improve as well.

But, none of that changes what this team was/is since mid-2012.

A huge problem with this team is coaching on defense, it is systemic, lack of confidence in the DC by the players, etc.
RE: Bullshit, they were lucky to even be 6-10  
Dan in the Springs : 1/5/2015 1:37 pm : link
In comment 12074050 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
......


Really? Which of their 6 wins were they lucky to win?

I can think of several of their losses where I believed they outplayed their opponents overall but loss on a couple of crazy plays (Jacksonville, for example).

I can see the argument that they weren't any better than 6-10, but for the life of me I can't really see the argument that they were lucky to be 6-10.
Not beating good teams..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/5/2015 1:45 pm : link
is what separates 6-10 from 10-6.

Look at the Stafford stat last night. 0-17 in road games against winning teams. You will not have much success when you can't beat the better teams occasionally. We used to be able to. The past 3 years - not so much.
RE: anyone  
Disgruntled NYGfan : 1/5/2015 3:48 pm : link
In comment 12071602 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
who watched the Giants last year knows they were not competitive against good teams.


Giants were competitive against Dallas in both games and against Philadelphia in the last game. Against Dallas, Giants were just good enough to lose and were definitely outplayed in all three of those games. Giants never did have the look of a playoff team.
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