If he's there when they pick, by all means, but if not, there are plenty of other holes where whoever the true BPA is can improve things, from DT to OL to LB to pretty much every position other than QB.
Let's consult with Buffalo about trading up for a non QB
If there isn't a stud tackle or 4-3 pass rusher I really wouldn't mind a trade down at all. (or a trade up for one of those positions if we are sold that they will make both an immediate and long term impact)
This is a trade for the madden / fantasy generation. Ignoring the trenches and saying Cooper and Beckham OMG!! That being said taking him at #9 I would be fine with.
and how the draft plays out. If he is on the board at 7 or 8, 1 or 2 picks ahead of us, and our OL talent is gone, I would consider it. That's a power move to grab someone like him, and put him on an offensive with OBJ. This way if Cruz can't play up to his great level, at least we still have firepower.
not Reese's style to burn picks moving up. Stay put, a potential pro bowler will be there.
Well Reese and Ross are on the clock too based on the last comment Mara made in his presser saying it's not unfair to say that this is a do or die year for many in the organization.
Does anyone know if this draft is deep enough to trade back?
Uhhh ok ... he had a nice game or two but he has yet to prove is a legit 1b or 2a WR. Cruz may never be the same again and he was never a true #1 so with that said your 2 (at best more like a 2b being hopeful) needs to be replaced. Cruz is going to be a #3 option. Larry needs to stop the fumbles....So fixing the WR corp for the next 4 to 5 Yrs is not a bad option. We did just get to OL in recently so with another yr of seasoning they should be better.
Even in fixing the OL and DL we need another WR to hedge the Cruz gamble (which that's what it is at this point)
If they're truly planning for the worst, then Cooper (WR in general) makes some sense on the surface.
I doubt that will be the case, especially given holes at other positions where need/value in this draft appear to be potentially matching up (e.g OT, DT in the 2nd, S in 3rd). Teams do indeed monitor that intersection of need/value.
Keep JPP, get Suh, LG via tier 2 FA or draft). If Cooper falls to 6 or lower trade up. Attempt to upgrade LB corp and get healthy in the 2ndary. I think the RB corp will be fine.
Extending\Restructing Eli would be needed but that risk I would take.
Suh should get dollars close to QB compensation levels, let alone sign both him and JPP.
UFA will be very important as the draft isn't really well-suited to consistently address urgent needs, and there are significant needs at DE, DT, OT, LB, S, TE ... imv, though the team will probably be more optimistic with the OL, for example. I'd upgrade both OT positions when feasible, Reese would probably keep both and opt to fill another hole. No bueno.
I didn't even know who he was or where he went to school or what position he played. 2 weeks before the Draft he was mentioned as a possibility and by Draft Dayne was a legitimate candidate at 12. I'd bet that there will a top 10 guy that nobody as mentioned to date and he might up being our guy at 9
that's true, but as to how much he has to drop. If he is there 7th or even a pick before us, 8th, I would consider it. Weight the options and see what goes on. If not, hopefully an OL prospect is on the board and we can address that.
Uhhh ok ... he had a nice game or two but he has yet to prove is a legit 1b or 2a WR.
Gotta disagree there. Brain farts aside he's put up 41/611/6 in '13 and 71/938/3 in 14 in 13 starts. Still only 23. And while I wouldn't say he "exploded" he certainly turned it up a few notches the last two weeks and goes into the offseason with a lot of momentum to build on. I'm fine with Randle as the #2.
turn it up too last two games? RR is 23 and talent was never an issue. It's between the ears that seems to be the issue. Mental mistakes and consistency. I don't know what the benching is about either. He has been with us for a few years. Does he not know the rules? Or is that a mental mistake too?
This year will be his contract year. So let's see if he decides to up his game or follow Hakeem's shining example on what NOT to do in your contract year.
Randall made tougher catches than Beckham. This is in no way a knock on OBJ. OBJ makes it look so easy, but Randall fought and won on balls that
very good WR's come down with
there are too many needs to be trading draft picks. you aren't going to move around in the top 10 trading 5th, 6th and 7th round picks. And the Giants need all their picks in rds 1-4
will not help the Giants run the ball or keep Eli off his back. Just forget about it.
Amen! Stop all the nonsense already. We are not trading draft picks away for a guy that is a nicety. If there's an OL or DLman with rated in the top of the draft, that's the guy we need.
No, they shouldn't trade up for Cooper or anyone else.
No, they shouldn't stay put at #9 to get an O-Lineman. Or a DE, or a LB, or any other position.
At #9, they should get the guy most likely to be an elite player. In other words, straight BPA. If last year shows anything, it's the impact an elite player can have. ANY elite player, at ANY position except QB, will be an upgrade. If Cooper falls to them, and he's that guy, then fine, they should get him, and address need elsewhere in the draft.
When the Giants are on the clock put your remote in the drawer. Don't get hung up on the guy you want, or the position you want. Focus on the quality they need. They got that quality last year at #12 with OBJ. If they nail their pick again, they'll be fine, whether it's a offensive tackle or a defensive end or a receiver or a running back.
Maybe The Light went on for Randle I have doubts
about Cruz returning to form and we do have a raw
decent looking Player in Washington also Parker
can play the Slot as with jernigan to backup .
You Don't need 4 pro bowl receivers when you
can't run the ball against the big-boys and until
we can we won't sniff another Lombardi .
We Need a Roadgrader or LT if its there .
Secondly a Playmaking LB Someone atheletic
enough to run down these zone reads .
I hope we go LT and Get Iupati the go d-line
in the 2nd . The LT can Groom for Beattys spot who
is servicible but how often will we draft
this high again The "Blue Goose " rarely lies
beyound the top ten picks . Eli pushing 35 needs
protection not only with the pass blocking but
with the run game .
He padded those stats at the end of the year and admittedly did play well. But he's such a blah looking player out there. Nothing about him really stands out. I can't see him being an 80 catch guy on a playoff team.
Cooper is smooth as hell. I actually think Beckham's success is going to be important for Cooper, since Cooper is also a guy who lacks that monster size/strength we've seen from past top WRs.
Cooper is nasty though and Cooper/Beckham would go a long way in providing Eli offensive help for the rest of his career. They'd have the potential to be today's version of Wayne/Harrison.
Despite all our other holes, you'd be a fool to not even consider Cooper at this spot.
Covering up weaknesses is an important part of building a team. But Creating strengths is also an important part, one that fans seem to forget about come draft time in order to fill needs.
Still, I wouldn't trade up for Cooper and if he's on the board when we pick I'd consider trading down with a team that's interested in him. But if we can't move down I'd definitely consider taking Cooper.
Oh God Cooper is already becoming this year's Aaron Donald
Might be the top grade I have given a WR since Calvin Johnson. His game screams Larry Fitzgerald with the way he plucks the ball out of the air and tracks the deep ball. Probably a better athlete than Fitzgerald was back in 2004. WR may not be the biggest need on the roster, but Cooper might be one of those guys you just don't pass on.
I disagreed with you and said he looked closer to the #10 pick than the #3. This post was on December 1st. So did you see some new tape on Cooper that makes you question his ability on the next level?
and honestly I've tried to be patient but anyone who thinks a trade up for Copper is worth it is a moron.
And that isn't because Cooper won't be great player. This team has one for he worst OL's in the NFL.. Easily the worst LB corps. Way below average TE's. Major issus at S and they should trade picks when your two starting WRs caught about 150 passes last year? WR isn't the probelem and adding Jerry Rice in his prime would make this team a SB contender.
If Amari was available at #8 you'd only need to give up a 4th round pick or so according to the draft value chart, since the difference between #8 and #9 is 50 points and a lower 4th round pick (#122) is worth 50 points. The Falcons pick 8th and in that scenario we wouldn't even need to make a trade since they are not picking WR (they have Julio and Roddy and need even more OL help than we do)
If Amari was available at #7 you'd have to give up a 3rd since the difference between #7 and #9 is 150 points and pick #88 (lower 3rd round) is 150 points. The Bears pick 7th and they are not picking WR either because they have Marshall and Jeffrey
A trade with the Jets will not happen since they pick at #6...and a trade with the Redskins isn't happening since they pick at #5. A trade from #9 to #6 would cost our 3rd and 6th rounders, and a trade from #9 to #5 would cost more than that
but they have a good o line and d line. If Donnell continues to develop, and Cruz comes back 90%, then the kid won't even play. Draft a road grader at tackle, and move Pugh Pugh to guard.
and would definitely look help, from either a veteran FA WR , or though the draft.
I just feel like the coaches and/or Eli don't fully trust him as his involvement in the offensive game plan seems to reflect that. He was invisible the opener vs Detroit, and then his targets rose, but he really didn't do much with the increased targets.
After the San Fran game his targets dropped of a cliff. He had a strong last couple of games, but even against St. Louis is was because he caught all 6 of his targets. He's a complimentary piece in the offense. If Cruz is not healthy, they should look for WR help.
due to how many holes this team has. HOWEVER, if he is there at 9, you run to the podium and take him.
Yes, we have OBJ. Yes, Randle might be a decent #2. Yes, Cruz MAY come back 90-100% and flourish playing primarily in the slot again.
However, in 4-5 years, all we will remember is that we have THE BEST tandem/trio of WRs in the league BAR NONE, not who filled whatever need we needed that went a few picks later.
If you have a chance to get AJ Green and Julio Jones on the same team, you take it.
The thing is that he seems to have an amazingly high floor and ceiling; he doesn't seem to have much of a bust factor. You have to take that into consideration.
However, no way I am giving up picks to get him. Maybe a 4th to move up to 8, fine, but that's IT.
but they have a good o line and d line. If Donnell continues to develop, and Cruz comes back 90%, then the kid won't even play. Draft a road grader at tackle, and move Pugh Pugh to guard.
Sorry, but Amari Cooper is playing no matter what team he goes back on. If Cooper got drafted, Randle would get his ass sent straight to the bench as the backup X/Y WR. Cruz would play in the slot, and we'd have OBJ/Cooper outside.
With Cooper, the Giants have HANDS DOWN the best WRs in the league. Remember what happened last time you gave Eli arguably (not definitely, but arguably) the best WR in the league? Superbowl.
Keep JPP, get Suh, LG via tier 2 FA or draft). If Cooper falls to 6 or lower trade up. Attempt to upgrade LB corp and get healthy in the 2ndary. I think the RB corp will be fine.
Extending\Restructing Eli would be needed but that risk I would take.
IMO, while this scenario makes us much better, next season still will be sabotaged by a bad O-line. We didn't do enough to address the O-line in this scenario.
We aren't one player away on the line. Someone is going to get hurt, the same way Schwartz did this year. We need 6-7 competent players, with 5 solid starters. preferably one backup who can start long term (think Kevin Boothe during his good years or Bob Whitfield/the Andrews brothers), and one guy who can tempoarily fill in.
Right now, we have 4 starting caliber players, IF you consider Schwartz a starter.
In your scenario (which is great except for the o-line), one injury torpedoes our line again.
Most teams do not have 6 or 7 starting level OLs....They are fortunate to have 1 or serviceable versatile backups. So in scenario the WR corp becomes A+ for years the OL gets that infusion that is needed and a possible groomer. While Adding a DT that will enhance JPP and allow the MLB to stay "cleaner" and fill gaps and pursue better. Yes it is costly hence the money comes from Eli...
I am not saying we are 1 player away I am addressing multiple holes in 1 yr hopefully so we can contend for the division and see what happens in the dance but come 2016 we draft again and get more FAs and contend.
at 9 then I hope the phone is ringing. The only players I would ever consider trading up in the first round are L. Williams and Mariota, if my team needed a QB. You can take the next 20-25 players and arrange however you want to come up with the top 10.
No, they shouldn't trade up for Cooper or anyone else.
No, they shouldn't stay put at #9 to get an O-Lineman. Or a DE, or a LB, or any other position.
At #9, they should get the guy most likely to be an elite player. In other words, straight BPA. If last year shows anything, it's the impact an elite player can have. ANY elite player, at ANY position except QB, will be an upgrade. If Cooper falls to them, and he's that guy, then fine, they should get him, and address need elsewhere in the draft.
When the Giants are on the clock put your remote in the drawer. Don't get hung up on the guy you want, or the position you want. Focus on the quality they need. They got that quality last year at #12 with OBJ. If they nail their pick again, they'll be fine, whether it's a offensive tackle or a defensive end or a receiver or a running back.
This^^^^^ x 10. It could be the top S, or one of the LBs Ray or Thompson, or an OLT or DT or Cooper or Parker or my current favorite, Marvin Gordon who I think is gonna be the best RB to come out since AP.
Just get a stud player, lordy knows the Gmen need that at all and any position, including even QB if you think the guy is so good you can let Eli walk after '15...
is very talented....it's the effort part he has issues with. That seemed to get better in the last two weeks.
Sold....no but there is hope. We do need another guy there. Just a solid vet....don't need a star.
Most teams do not have 6 or 7 starting level OLs....They are fortunate to have 1 or serviceable versatile backups. So in scenario the WR corp becomes A+ for years the OL gets that infusion that is needed and a possible groomer. While Adding a DT that will enhance JPP and allow the MLB to stay "cleaner" and fill gaps and pursue better. Yes it is costly hence the money comes from Eli...
I am not saying we are 1 player away I am addressing multiple holes in 1 yr hopefully so we can contend for the division and see what happens in the dance but come 2016 we draft again and get more FAs and contend.
fair points but I still don't think that addresses the line enough. I didn't mean 6-7 starters: I meant 6-7 guys who can start. Theres a difference. Kevin Boothe can start, but isnt a starter. Hes a good example of the depth im alluding to.
Maybe The Light went on for Randle I have doubts
about Cruz returning to form and we do have a raw
decent looking Player in Washington also Parker
can play the Slot as with jernigan to backup .
You Don't need 4 pro bowl receivers when you
can't run the ball against the big-boys and until
we can we won't sniff another Lombardi .
enough to run down tWe Need a Roadgrader or LT if its there .
Secondly a Playmaking LB Someone atheletic
hese zone reads .
I hope we go LT and Get Iupati the go d-line
in the 2nd . The LT can Groom for Beattys spot who
is servicible but how often will we draft
this high again The "Blue Goose " rarely lies
beyound the top ten picks . Eli pushing 35 needs
protection not only with the pass blocking but
with the run game .
What we need is BPA with our #1 pick, That's how George Young in the 70's drafting LT though LB's was the only area they didn't need to improve. Plus, the OT's who may be availed with 9th pick all have some question marks
and we can't really afford to trade away 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th round picks. That being said if they felt Cooper his Beckham 2.0 then fire away. He's probably not, but we still have a lot of analysis and the combine to go.
Now to the point of improving the passing game. There are lots of ways to improve the passing game. Better receivers and better QB being obvious choices a long with better pass blocking. We can also improve the passing game by improving the running game. I think the Giants need to invest free agent money in a starting OG and probably a depth tackle that has experience on the line as well. No scrub, someone who has played well. In addition I'd like to see another draft pick spent on the line in the first 3 rounds.
This past season the Giants were ranked 23rd in rushing yards per game. Not very good, improving that rank will open up the play action and create longer drives helping both offense and defense.
I've been watching football since the Allie Sherman days
I've seen 1 LT in 1981 and 1 OBJ in 2014. I've been hearing about the next LT since he retired and I've seen some good ones, but not the next LT. If you think Beckham 2.0 is coming in the next draft, it's possible, but odds are it will probably be another 30 years before we get Beckham 2.0
Guys like LT & OBJ don't come around often
then give me Melvin Gordon instead of Cooper. I think Gordon is going to be a devastating player in the NFL. Wisconsin didn't come close to utilizing his full capabilities in the passing game.
I see a more athletic Thurman Thomas here...
I'd prefer an inexpensive veteran receiver brought in
I love Gordon too. Lot of upside. He'll be a big play machine especially if the team starts throwing him short passes.
Use Gordon like BAL used Ray Rice and he'll explode in the NFL. Move him around. In slot. Screens and short passes. Rice, just like Gordon, rarely caught the ball in college. It was a mistake Schiano made with Rice and it's the same thing with the Wisconsin coach. How do you not throw this guy screen passes all day?
It's not hard to see he will be a big time playmaker as a receiver.
But I see Gordon as the real deal, an instant difference maker in all facets of the offense. More the exception to today's rules of drafting for the NFL...
Andy Reed said (when he was with the Eagles) his approach was to draft in round one for the best impact player, regardless of needs, then turn to needs in all the subsequent picks. He came up with many impact players that way, as most of us will recall.
I sense that Jerry Reese sets up his "rows" (comparative values of potential draftees) with adjustments for how he weights the values of different positions (DE, CB, WR higher than DT, LB, OL except for LT, etc.), and also considers need at Round 1, despite always saying he chooses the "best available player."
Prince at CB is the only non-need 1st round pick in recent years, but was at a high value position. What Reese does is certainly different from the Reed approach.
opinion of Gordon I'm getting. He's special, like a "generational" RB special. I haven't folowed college FB this year so I'm relying on Youtube highlight vids, so with that caveat... I've compared Gordon's highlights to Gurley's and I like Gordon's more. He creates holes or finds them in just narrow cracks, and influences the 1st and second level defenders with the slightest hesitation and then bold smooth cuts, out of which he accelerates like like a drag racer... Then his vision at the next level, -he has the wise tendency to look to outrace the secondary defenders to the edge, but there are times he goes straight upfield between the two safeties and they look shocked by how quickly he gets even and then through them.
How this guy wasn't targeted with LOTS of swing passes and screens I have no idea - except that Wisconsin is Run Game U by force of habit. He's going to be a nightmare match-up for LBs to cover on passing routes, once that's in his game. He runs lower than Gurley with a good bit more bend and forward lean as he weaves through traffic. Gurley to me runs considerably more upright, more like Rodney Hampton used to. Gordon, for the life of me, reminds me of the great Billy Simms, but I'm not sure he's THAT fast as Simms was.
The combine will tell us a lot more about him, speed #s and how well he catches the ball.
But I see Gordon as the real deal, an instant difference maker in all facets of the offense. More the exception to today's rules of drafting for the NFL...
I saw Gordon a few times this year. No need to even see the workout. He's got it. Very quick and explosive as you described. He's a can't miss RB prospect. Instant impact in year 1.
Gurley is also a very impressive runner. Runs very hard. I really like him but he's injured. It will be interesting to see where he goes.
Look like the safest bets to go Top 10... Williams was the man at USC from his true freshman year on... He has the size, athleticism and versatility that teams covet... Only 20 yrs old... Gregory is raw and a bit undersized (240), but looks like he could easily add +20 lbs to his frame... He was regularly double and triple teamed and still made an impact...
They probably will but I wouldn't touch Mariotta or Winston in Top 10... I just don't see plays from inside the pocket that look translatable to the NFL... Winston has more upside as a passer but the baggage is impossible to overlook... Hard to hitch your wagon to a guy like that...
IMO, Shane Ray (DE/OLB, Mizzu) looks maxed out and will get stuffed at the point of attack in the NFL... His best bet is a 3-4 OLB, but even so I wouldn't touch him in the Top 20 even... I don't see Landon Collins (S, Alabama) worthy of a Top 10 pick either...
My wine is selling well and I get a lot of positive response about it. Next vintages are heading to the US soon or already enroute. Hope all is well for you too! Will be interested to see if Gordon can run a sub 4.5 40.... And how he catches, too.
The 2 teams that are most likely to go WR are Oakland and the Jets. Its entirely possible 1 is there when the Giants pick at 9.
I don't see us trading up for anyone really, let alone a WR.
Randle picks it up at the end of the season.
Cruz will be back in some capacity next year....
...And we're talking about trading up for another receiver?
BPA in this draft, except QBs
BPA in this draft, except QBs
If there isn't a stud tackle or 4-3 pass rusher I really wouldn't mind a trade down at all. (or a trade up for one of those positions if we are sold that they will make both an immediate and long term impact)
This is a trade for the madden / fantasy generation. Ignoring the trenches and saying Cooper and Beckham OMG!! That being said taking him at #9 I would be fine with.
Well Reese and Ross are on the clock too based on the last comment Mara made in his presser saying it's not unfair to say that this is a do or die year for many in the organization.
Uhhh ok ... he had a nice game or two but he has yet to prove is a legit 1b or 2a WR. Cruz may never be the same again and he was never a true #1 so with that said your 2 (at best more like a 2b being hopeful) needs to be replaced. Cruz is going to be a #3 option. Larry needs to stop the fumbles....So fixing the WR corp for the next 4 to 5 Yrs is not a bad option. We did just get to OL in recently so with another yr of seasoning they should be better.
Even in fixing the OL and DL we need another WR to hedge the Cruz gamble (which that's what it is at this point)
I doubt that will be the case, especially given holes at other positions where need/value in this draft appear to be potentially matching up (e.g OT, DT in the 2nd, S in 3rd). Teams do indeed monitor that intersection of need/value.
Keep JPP, get Suh, LG via tier 2 FA or draft). If Cooper falls to 6 or lower trade up. Attempt to upgrade LB corp and get healthy in the 2ndary. I think the RB corp will be fine.
Extending\Restructing Eli would be needed but that risk I would take.
Actually it was Prince Ramses . Either way, yeah, awesome track record.
UFA will be very important as the draft isn't really well-suited to consistently address urgent needs, and there are significant needs at DE, DT, OT, LB, S, TE ... imv, though the team will probably be more optimistic with the OL, for example. I'd upgrade both OT positions when feasible, Reese would probably keep both and opt to fill another hole. No bueno.
Uhhh ok ... he had a nice game or two but he has yet to prove is a legit 1b or 2a WR.
Gotta disagree there. Brain farts aside he's put up 41/611/6 in '13 and 71/938/3 in 14 in 13 starts. Still only 23. And while I wouldn't say he "exploded" he certainly turned it up a few notches the last two weeks and goes into the offseason with a lot of momentum to build on. I'm fine with Randle as the #2.
This year will be his contract year. So let's see if he decides to up his game or follow Hakeem's shining example on what NOT to do in your contract year.
very good WR's come down with
Amen! Stop all the nonsense already. We are not trading draft picks away for a guy that is a nicety. If there's an OL or DLman with rated in the top of the draft, that's the guy we need.
No, they shouldn't stay put at #9 to get an O-Lineman. Or a DE, or a LB, or any other position.
At #9, they should get the guy most likely to be an elite player. In other words, straight BPA. If last year shows anything, it's the impact an elite player can have. ANY elite player, at ANY position except QB, will be an upgrade. If Cooper falls to them, and he's that guy, then fine, they should get him, and address need elsewhere in the draft.
When the Giants are on the clock put your remote in the drawer. Don't get hung up on the guy you want, or the position you want. Focus on the quality they need. They got that quality last year at #12 with OBJ. If they nail their pick again, they'll be fine, whether it's a offensive tackle or a defensive end or a receiver or a running back.
Those two/three games from Jernigan were literally the only evidence in three years that he was even capable of playing at the NFL level.
Randle demonstrated that ability his rookie year. He just hasn't proven to be a dependable WR, which is still a problem but a different problem.
about Cruz returning to form and we do have a raw
decent looking Player in Washington also Parker
can play the Slot as with jernigan to backup .
You Don't need 4 pro bowl receivers when you
can't run the ball against the big-boys and until
we can we won't sniff another Lombardi .
We Need a Roadgrader or LT if its there .
Secondly a Playmaking LB Someone atheletic
enough to run down these zone reads .
I hope we go LT and Get Iupati the go d-line
in the 2nd . The LT can Groom for Beattys spot who
is servicible but how often will we draft
this high again The "Blue Goose " rarely lies
beyound the top ten picks . Eli pushing 35 needs
protection not only with the pass blocking but
with the run game .
Cooper is smooth as hell. I actually think Beckham's success is going to be important for Cooper, since Cooper is also a guy who lacks that monster size/strength we've seen from past top WRs.
Cooper is nasty though and Cooper/Beckham would go a long way in providing Eli offensive help for the rest of his career. They'd have the potential to be today's version of Wayne/Harrison.
Despite all our other holes, you'd be a fool to not even consider Cooper at this spot.
Covering up weaknesses is an important part of building a team. But Creating strengths is also an important part, one that fans seem to forget about come draft time in order to fill needs.
Still, I wouldn't trade up for Cooper and if he's on the board when we pick I'd consider trading down with a team that's interested in him. But if we can't move down I'd definitely consider taking Cooper.
It could've been someone else who said it. But if it was you, what made you change your mind?
Might be the top grade I have given a WR since Calvin Johnson. His game screams Larry Fitzgerald with the way he plucks the ball out of the air and tracks the deep ball. Probably a better athlete than Fitzgerald was back in 2004. WR may not be the biggest need on the roster, but Cooper might be one of those guys you just don't pass on.
http://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=506333
I disagreed with you and said he looked closer to the #10 pick than the #3. This post was on December 1st. So did you see some new tape on Cooper that makes you question his ability on the next level?
And that isn't because Cooper won't be great player. This team has one for he worst OL's in the NFL.. Easily the worst LB corps. Way below average TE's. Major issus at S and they should trade picks when your two starting WRs caught about 150 passes last year? WR isn't the probelem and adding Jerry Rice in his prime would make this team a SB contender.
I don't want him at 9.
If Amari was available at #7 you'd have to give up a 3rd since the difference between #7 and #9 is 150 points and pick #88 (lower 3rd round) is 150 points. The Bears pick 7th and they are not picking WR either because they have Marshall and Jeffrey
A trade with the Jets will not happen since they pick at #6...and a trade with the Redskins isn't happening since they pick at #5. A trade from #9 to #6 would cost our 3rd and 6th rounders, and a trade from #9 to #5 would cost more than that
I just feel like the coaches and/or Eli don't fully trust him as his involvement in the offensive game plan seems to reflect that. He was invisible the opener vs Detroit, and then his targets rose, but he really didn't do much with the increased targets.
After the San Fran game his targets dropped of a cliff. He had a strong last couple of games, but even against St. Louis is was because he caught all 6 of his targets. He's a complimentary piece in the offense. If Cruz is not healthy, they should look for WR help.
Yes, we have OBJ. Yes, Randle might be a decent #2. Yes, Cruz MAY come back 90-100% and flourish playing primarily in the slot again.
However, in 4-5 years, all we will remember is that we have THE BEST tandem/trio of WRs in the league BAR NONE, not who filled whatever need we needed that went a few picks later.
If you have a chance to get AJ Green and Julio Jones on the same team, you take it.
The thing is that he seems to have an amazingly high floor and ceiling; he doesn't seem to have much of a bust factor. You have to take that into consideration.
However, no way I am giving up picks to get him. Maybe a 4th to move up to 8, fine, but that's IT.
Sorry, but Amari Cooper is playing no matter what team he goes back on. If Cooper got drafted, Randle would get his ass sent straight to the bench as the backup X/Y WR. Cruz would play in the slot, and we'd have OBJ/Cooper outside.
With Cooper, the Giants have HANDS DOWN the best WRs in the league. Remember what happened last time you gave Eli arguably (not definitely, but arguably) the best WR in the league? Superbowl.
Keep JPP, get Suh, LG via tier 2 FA or draft). If Cooper falls to 6 or lower trade up. Attempt to upgrade LB corp and get healthy in the 2ndary. I think the RB corp will be fine.
Extending\Restructing Eli would be needed but that risk I would take.
IMO, while this scenario makes us much better, next season still will be sabotaged by a bad O-line. We didn't do enough to address the O-line in this scenario.
We aren't one player away on the line. Someone is going to get hurt, the same way Schwartz did this year. We need 6-7 competent players, with 5 solid starters. preferably one backup who can start long term (think Kevin Boothe during his good years or Bob Whitfield/the Andrews brothers), and one guy who can tempoarily fill in.
Right now, we have 4 starting caliber players, IF you consider Schwartz a starter.
In your scenario (which is great except for the o-line), one injury torpedoes our line again.
+1 -- agree 100%
I am not saying we are 1 player away I am addressing multiple holes in 1 yr hopefully so we can contend for the division and see what happens in the dance but come 2016 we draft again and get more FAs and contend.
No, they shouldn't stay put at #9 to get an O-Lineman. Or a DE, or a LB, or any other position.
At #9, they should get the guy most likely to be an elite player. In other words, straight BPA. If last year shows anything, it's the impact an elite player can have. ANY elite player, at ANY position except QB, will be an upgrade. If Cooper falls to them, and he's that guy, then fine, they should get him, and address need elsewhere in the draft.
When the Giants are on the clock put your remote in the drawer. Don't get hung up on the guy you want, or the position you want. Focus on the quality they need. They got that quality last year at #12 with OBJ. If they nail their pick again, they'll be fine, whether it's a offensive tackle or a defensive end or a receiver or a running back.
This^^^^^ x 10. It could be the top S, or one of the LBs Ray or Thompson, or an OLT or DT or Cooper or Parker or my current favorite, Marvin Gordon who I think is gonna be the best RB to come out since AP.
Just get a stud player, lordy knows the Gmen need that at all and any position, including even QB if you think the guy is so good you can let Eli walk after '15...
Sold....no but there is hope. We do need another guy there. Just a solid vet....don't need a star.
I am not saying we are 1 player away I am addressing multiple holes in 1 yr hopefully so we can contend for the division and see what happens in the dance but come 2016 we draft again and get more FAs and contend.
He's maybe a late first rounder. This player is not going top 10.
He's maybe a late first rounder. This player is not going top 10.
I'm pretty sure the point he was making pertained to the Giants' needs, not the value of the WR.
about Cruz returning to form and we do have a raw
decent looking Player in Washington also Parker
can play the Slot as with jernigan to backup .
You Don't need 4 pro bowl receivers when you
can't run the ball against the big-boys and until
we can we won't sniff another Lombardi .
enough to run down tWe Need a Roadgrader or LT if its there .
Secondly a Playmaking LB Someone atheletic
hese zone reads .
I hope we go LT and Get Iupati the go d-line
in the 2nd . The LT can Groom for Beattys spot who
is servicible but how often will we draft
this high again The "Blue Goose " rarely lies
beyound the top ten picks . Eli pushing 35 needs
protection not only with the pass blocking but
with the run game .
What we need is BPA with our #1 pick, That's how George Young in the 70's drafting LT though LB's was the only area they didn't need to improve. Plus, the OT's who may be availed with 9th pick all have some question marks
Now to the point of improving the passing game. There are lots of ways to improve the passing game. Better receivers and better QB being obvious choices a long with better pass blocking. We can also improve the passing game by improving the running game. I think the Giants need to invest free agent money in a starting OG and probably a depth tackle that has experience on the line as well. No scrub, someone who has played well. In addition I'd like to see another draft pick spent on the line in the first 3 rounds.
This past season the Giants were ranked 23rd in rushing yards per game. Not very good, improving that rank will open up the play action and create longer drives helping both offense and defense.
Guys like LT & OBJ don't come around often
I am shocked people think he's a top 5 pick. Or a guy you trade up for. Giants will have better options at #9.
I see a more athletic Thurman Thomas here...
Use Gordon like BAL used Ray Rice and he'll explode in the NFL. Move him around. In slot. Screens and short passes. Rice, just like Gordon, rarely caught the ball in college. It was a mistake Schiano made with Rice and it's the same thing with the Wisconsin coach. How do you not throw this guy screen passes all day?
It's not hard to see he will be a big time playmaker as a receiver.
What are your thoughts on Devin Carter? He's the type of receiver who could be a decent bargain in day 2...
Either draft an OL, a DE, LB, S or if you must add a 'weapon' the best TE available.
Anything else is pointless.
But I see Gordon as the real deal, an instant difference maker in all facets of the offense. More the exception to today's rules of drafting for the NFL...
I sense that Jerry Reese sets up his "rows" (comparative values of potential draftees) with adjustments for how he weights the values of different positions (DE, CB, WR higher than DT, LB, OL except for LT, etc.), and also considers need at Round 1, despite always saying he chooses the "best available player."
Prince at CB is the only non-need 1st round pick in recent years, but was at a high value position. What Reese does is certainly different from the Reed approach.
Some good backs in this draft. RB from Nebraska and Indiana are guys to keep an eye on in round 2. Both are very explosive.
How this guy wasn't targeted with LOTS of swing passes and screens I have no idea - except that Wisconsin is Run Game U by force of habit. He's going to be a nightmare match-up for LBs to cover on passing routes, once that's in his game. He runs lower than Gurley with a good bit more bend and forward lean as he weaves through traffic. Gurley to me runs considerably more upright, more like Rodney Hampton used to. Gordon, for the life of me, reminds me of the great Billy Simms, but I'm not sure he's THAT fast as Simms was.
The combine will tell us a lot more about him, speed #s and how well he catches the ball.
But I see Gordon as the real deal, an instant difference maker in all facets of the offense. More the exception to today's rules of drafting for the NFL...
This^^^^.
Gurley is also a very impressive runner. Runs very hard. I really like him but he's injured. It will be interesting to see where he goes.
I think of Cris Carter because all he does is score TDs... ;)
They probably will but I wouldn't touch Mariotta or Winston in Top 10... I just don't see plays from inside the pocket that look translatable to the NFL... Winston has more upside as a passer but the baggage is impossible to overlook... Hard to hitch your wagon to a guy like that...
IMO, Shane Ray (DE/OLB, Mizzu) looks maxed out and will get stuffed at the point of attack in the NFL... His best bet is a 3-4 OLB, but even so I wouldn't touch him in the Top 20 even... I don't see Landon Collins (S, Alabama) worthy of a Top 10 pick either...