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80s Giant LBs

BP in NJ : 1/8/2015 2:42 pm
I was born in '88, so I never got see to the Giant defenses of the 80s live. Given the state of our D, I can't help but think what it would be like to have that type of LB corps today.

LT, Carl Banks, Harry Carson, Pepper Johnson, and Gary Reasons? That is downright terrifying. I mean, how did other teams move the ball? Wondering if some of the older guys who were lucky enough to witness can comment.

Not to mention Leonard Marshall?
They didn't get much on the ground  
jeff57 : 1/8/2015 2:44 pm : link
that's for sure.
There backups...  
Big T : 1/8/2015 2:46 pm : link
Andy Headen and Byront Hunt would be our two best LBs today. We were stacked at LB in the 80s.
there = their  
Big T : 1/8/2015 2:46 pm : link
.
you wouldn't have that corps today  
Matt in SGS : 1/8/2015 2:49 pm : link
with the salary cap, you could never afford that much talent. If you want to see that group at it's apex, go back and watch the 1986 Giants vs. 49ers playoff destruction. Carl Banks played out of his mind, the Niners could not run a lick on him the entire game and Madden called him the MVP of the game. LT returned the pick for a TD on the play that Burt concussed Montana. Every time a Niner would catch the ball, the linebackers would hit them and they would all go right now, no extra yards. Even Pepper got a pick in garbage time and nearly brought it back to the house.
RE: you wouldn't have that corps today  
truebluelarry : 1/8/2015 2:52 pm : link
In comment 12082742 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
If you want to see that group at it's apex, go back and watch the 1986 Giants vs. 49ers playoff destruction.

Harry Carson also had a tackle on Roger Craig early in the game on a third-and-short that must've kocked a few molars loose.
Andy Headen could have started for most of the teams in football  
Greg from LI : 1/8/2015 2:53 pm : link
If free agency had existed then, he would have been gone as soon as his contract was up.

The Giants' defense of the '80s was based on two main things - abusing the QB and smothering the run. They actually didn't blitz much at all, usually rushing the lineman plus LT, which of course made for an awesome pass rush. Carl Banks was a rock on the strong side, handling the opposing TEs. Carson, Reasons and Pepper were terrific run-stuffers. They generally played a soft 2-deep zone, dropping the safeties deep. They were very tough to go over the top on, because of that deep zone and the strong pass rush. You'd have opporunities to throw underneath on them, but you'd pay the price because virtually everyone on that team could lay the lumber.
"Not to mention Leonard Marshall"  
jeff57 : 1/8/2015 2:53 pm : link
And George Martin.
I forget how many QBs they knocked out in 1986, but it was a bunch  
Greg from LI : 1/8/2015 2:54 pm : link
5? 6? They just murdered them.
and it's hard to describe how incredible LT was then  
Greg from LI : 1/8/2015 2:56 pm : link
You know how JJ Watt is an unstoppable madman today? LT was like that, only more so and all over the field. He was EVERYWHERE. He lined up all up and down the line, he dropped back into coverage sometimes, he ran RBs down from sideline to sideline, and he destroyed QBs.
Robbie Jones was no slouch either..  
Big Blue '56 : 1/8/2015 2:56 pm : link
Ahhh, those pre-FA days..
Will never see it again  
deadkurtrulz : 1/8/2015 2:58 pm : link
Matt is correct. The salary cap prevents teams from keeping the talent they drafted and developed. Today it would be LT OR Banks, Jerry Rice OR John Taylor. None of the strong teams today can compare with the great teams from the past from a talent/depth viewpoint.

Add Van Pelt to that list of great LB's as well. That defense kept Giants in every game. There were no lopsided losses then. Giant fans just assumed the defense would be great.
Greg, I've related this story several times, but perhaps the newbies  
Big Blue '56 : 1/8/2015 3:00 pm : link
might be interested..I was sitting next to Leonard Marshall(good friends with my daughter and son-in-law) at my daughter's wedding. He told me something the entire world knows and that is LT was clearly the best Defensive player EVER.

That said, he went on to say that people would not believe how much he and Carson had to clean up on LT's mistakes..

Just an FYI
LT was a heat seeking missile, just fabulous to watch  
gtt350 : 1/8/2015 3:01 pm : link
.
RE: Will never see it again  
jeff57 : 1/8/2015 3:03 pm : link
In comment 12082768 deadkurtrulz said:
Quote:
Matt is correct. The salary cap prevents teams from keeping the talent they drafted and developed. Today it would be LT OR Banks, Jerry Rice OR John Taylor. None of the strong teams today can compare with the great teams from the past from a talent/depth viewpoint.

Add Van Pelt to that list of great LB's as well. That defense kept Giants in every game. There were no lopsided losses then. Giant fans just assumed the defense would be great.


Depends when the players came into the league. The Niners were able to have Smith, Willis, Bowman and Brooks. Not a bad group. You couldn't keep them together as long, maybe a couple of years, as long as their entry was staggered.
hah  
Greg from LI : 1/8/2015 3:03 pm : link
Well, LT did what LT did. It wasn't always what the play was supposed to be. After all, the only reason the position of "3-4 rush LB" exists is because LT kept ignoring Parcells, freelancing blitzes intead of dropping into coverage, and was so successful at it that Tuna just went with it.
All you need to know...  
kinard : 1/8/2015 3:03 pm : link
... is that Bill Belichick coached the defense. He was an unbelievable defensive guy.

The Giants LBs of that time really started with Brian Kelley and Brad van Pelt (along with Taylor Carson and Banks).

In addition to Headon and Hunt, they had all of these great underrated guys on defense: Erik Howard, Jerome Salley, John Washington, Peeper Johnson, Dan Lloyd - guys like that. Throw in Marshall and martin and presto

Those D'backs (Collins, Williams, Kinard, Patterson, Hill)did a hell of job too
BB  
Matt in SGS : 1/8/2015 3:03 pm : link
I believe it, when I was doing some work with Byron Hunt a few years back, he used to tell me how much Romeo and Belichick used to yell at LT for freelancing, but he would make so many big plays, and was so dominant, that the other guys would need to be in position to cover it up.

Byron was also LT's roommate, so his off the field stories were even more eventful. LT is very very lucky that there was no TMZ, internet, Deadspin, and Goodell around today. He'd be thrown out of the NFL.
My comment is....  
Emlen'sGremlins : 1/8/2015 3:05 pm : link
...this is precisely why we're so put off by the defense we've seen for the past several years.

My father grew up on Huff, Robustelli, Katcavage, Grier and Modzelewki. I grew up on Carson, Taylor, Banks, Martin, Burt and Marshall. And in more recent times we had Strahan, Osi, Tuck etc.

Defense is the life blood of this franchise and it needs to be restored back to its former glory.
RE: BB  
Big Blue '56 : 1/8/2015 3:06 pm : link
In comment 12082783 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
I believe it, when I was doing some work with Byron Hunt a few years back, he used to tell me how much Romeo and Belichick used to yell at LT for freelancing, but he would make so many big plays, and was so dominant, that the other guys would need to be in position to cover it up.

Byron was also LT's roommate, so his off the field stories were even more eventful. LT is very very lucky that there was no TMZ, internet, Deadspin, and Goodell around today. He'd be thrown out of the NFL.


Haha, could very well be
Erik Howard was criminally underrated  
Greg from LI : 1/8/2015 3:07 pm : link
He had a helluva time staying healthy, but when he did he was a mean, nasty wrecking ball in the middle. Mark Collins might have been the toughest CB I've ever seen.
what was the story?  
Greg from LI : 1/8/2015 3:09 pm : link
In his first game as a rookie, LT blitzed instead of playing coverage and dropped the QB. When he gets back to the sideline, Parcells yells at him "That's not in the playbook!", and LT tells him "Then we need to put it in there!"
We were quite fortunate at the Nose position.  
Big Blue '56 : 1/8/2015 3:10 pm : link
First we had Bill Neill who was very good..He got hurt and Burt became his successor..Then of course Howard
RE: what was the story?  
Matt in SGS : 1/8/2015 3:19 pm : link
In comment 12082804 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In his first game as a rookie, LT blitzed instead of playing coverage and dropped the QB. When he gets back to the sideline, Parcells yells at him "That's not in the playbook!", and LT tells him "Then we need to put it in there!"


I think that was the game in St. Louis in 1981, late in the year. LT blitzed and sacked Lomax on a delay and Parcells yelled at him that he was supposed to drop in coverage. The next series he did the same thing, but this time caused a fumble that Martin returned for a TD and Parcells said they don't have that in the playbook, and LT told him that they should put it in there now.
Give credit to Bill Arnsfarger  
jeff57 : 1/8/2015 3:20 pm : link
who created the 3-4 template for them. And brought in players like Van Pelt, Carson and Martin.
As much as linemen have grown over the years  
SwirlingEddie : 1/8/2015 3:22 pm : link
the linebacker position has held fairly close in size since those days. Our 80s LBs were all listed in the 6-4, 240lb range which is about the same average size league-wide today.
except for Pepper  
Greg from LI : 1/8/2015 3:24 pm : link
He was a big dude, played around 255 IIRC
Its  
BP in NJ : 1/8/2015 3:25 pm : link
a shame for you guys who grew up with that as the standard. Now you have to watch players of Mark Herzlich's caliber.

Ah, the glory that was Rome.
Part of Parcells greatness was that he DID put those things  
Victor in CT : 1/8/2015 3:26 pm : link
in the playbook.

Those guys were incredible. Banks would just clobber every TE at the LOS. And all the DBs could tackle. You could not run on that team.

How about LT against the Redskins in 1985 at Giants Stadium? End around to I think Gary Clark. LT runs down the LOS and is waiting there for Clark when he made the turn up field and just destroyed him. You could see from his movement that Clark was stunned to see LT in front of him.
I'm stll bitter at Reeves  
Phil in LA : 1/8/2015 3:26 pm : link
for cutting Pepper.
RE: Will never see it again  
Victor in CT : 1/8/2015 3:27 pm : link
In comment 12082768 deadkurtrulz said:
Quote:
Matt is correct. The salary cap prevents teams from keeping the talent they drafted and developed. Today it would be LT OR Banks, Jerry Rice OR John Taylor. None of the strong teams today can compare with the great teams from the past from a talent/depth viewpoint.

Add Van Pelt to that list of great LB's as well. That defense kept Giants in every game. There were no lopsided losses then. Giant fans just assumed the defense would be great.


So true
I remember after the 17-0 NFC Championship Game  
Phil in LA : 1/8/2015 3:28 pm : link
against Washington, Jay Schroeder took off his helmet and looked just like Jim from Taxi.

I miss that.
It was a helluva run at the position  
Greg from LI : 1/8/2015 3:28 pm : link
Van Pelt, Carson and Kelly (who were before my time) from the mid-70s to the early '80s, then LT-Carson/Pepper-Reasons/Banks into the early '90s.
Phil  
Greg from LI : 1/8/2015 3:29 pm : link
If I'm not mistaken, Schroeder actually collapsed briefly on the sideline at the end of the game.
There was also  
Phil in LA : 1/8/2015 3:29 pm : link
Frank Marion, who was captain of specials, and could play well when called on for D.
Greg  
Phil in LA : 1/8/2015 3:30 pm : link
Fuck him.
RE: I remember after the 17-0 NFC Championship Game  
jeff57 : 1/8/2015 3:31 pm : link
In comment 12082852 Phil in LA said:
Quote:
against Washington, Jay Schroeder took off his helmet and looked just like Jim from Taxi.

I miss that.


Well, there was like a 40 mph wind blowing throughout the game.
hah  
Greg from LI : 1/8/2015 3:33 pm : link
They pounded Schroeder mercilessly in the big late-season showdown in RFK that year, too. I believe both teams were 10-2 and tied for first coming into that game. Giants manhandled them in a 24-14 win that wasn't as close as the score made it look. Schroeder was sacked a bunch of times and threw 6 picks. Bavaro's TD catch was the cover of SI that week - I cut it out and had it on my wall for years as a kid.
and in a cool story bro moment  
Greg from LI : 1/8/2015 3:35 pm : link
Jay Schroeder was the son in law of one of my favorite high school teachers. We used to give Mr. Towell a rash of shit every Monday if Schroeder had played poorly (he was a Raider by then), and he'd get annoyed at us and yell "He's not my damn son, he only married my daughter!"
RE: Phil  
Matt in SGS : 1/8/2015 3:35 pm : link
In comment 12082856 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
If I'm not mistaken, Schroeder actually collapsed briefly on the sideline at the end of the game.


Greg he did. A few plays earlier, he was hit by either Reasons or Carson and took a shot to the head. Back in 1986, concussions were just "get your bell rung" and give some smelling salts and get back out there. If you bought the Giants 10 game DVD collection, they actually edited that part out of the game. Summerall started yelling, as the clock was going down to 0 and Burt was throwing cups of gatorade into the stands, that Schroeder had collapsed and crumpled to the turf. With the NFL crackdown on youtube, it might be gone, but there was a video of the original CBS broadcast and you can see that part again.
RE: Andy Headen could have started for most of the teams in football  
Gman11 : 1/8/2015 3:36 pm : link
In comment 12082755 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
They generally played a soft 2-deep zone, dropping the safeties deep. They were very tough to go over the top on, because of that deep zone and the strong pass rush. You'd have opporunities to throw underneath on them, but you'd pay the price because virtually everyone on that team could lay the lumber.


Yeah, just ask the 1990 Bills about that strategy. By the end of the Super Bowl game the receivers were punished to the point of being afraid to go over the middle.
RE: hah  
Gman11 : 1/8/2015 3:39 pm : link
In comment 12082873 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
They pounded Schroeder mercilessly in the big late-season showdown in RFK that year, too. I believe both teams were 10-2 and tied for first coming into that game. Giants manhandled them in a 24-14 win that wasn't as close as the score made it look. Schroeder was sacked a bunch of times and threw 6 picks. Bavaro's TD catch was the cover of SI that week - I cut it out and had it on my wall for years as a kid.


That was the first regular season game that I had ever attended. They had a bus tour from North Carolina to the game and I jumped at the chance. I remember it like it was yesterday.
RE: RE: Andy Headen could have started for most of the teams in football  
Victor in CT : 1/8/2015 3:42 pm : link
In comment 12082883 Gman11 said:
Quote:
In comment 12082755 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


They generally played a soft 2-deep zone, dropping the safeties deep. They were very tough to go over the top on, because of that deep zone and the strong pass rush. You'd have opporunities to throw underneath on them, but you'd pay the price because virtually everyone on that team could lay the lumber.



Yeah, just ask the 1990 Bills about that strategy. By the end of the Super Bowl game the receivers were punished to the point of being afraid to go over the middle.


The front 7 was so dominant from 84-87 that all they asked the DBs to do was not give up the big play. Think about it: The front 7 was so good that they won the SB with Elvis Patterson and Kenny Hill in the secondary.
Yep, Matt, someone's got the entire original broadcast on there  
Greg from LI : 1/8/2015 3:44 pm : link
Summerall's comment about Schroeder is at 1:07:30ish
Link - ( New Window )
Greg it was 11-2..  
Big Blue '56 : 1/8/2015 3:45 pm : link
I remember the next week the Skins traveled to Denver where they lost 31-30(?) on a missed extra point..It was a Saturday game. We clinched the division the next day
It was awesome how they owned the Skins in those days  
Greg from LI : 1/8/2015 3:47 pm : link
Well, I mean, they've owned them for a large chunk of the past three decades, but it was especially sweet back then when the Skins were a damn good team.
That division with the Eagles, Skins and Giants in  
Big Blue '56 : 1/8/2015 3:49 pm : link
the '80s was my favorite as a fan..Any of those teams could have won the SB in any given year
Those Giants-Skins games in the 80s and early 90s were doozies  
Victor in CT : 1/8/2015 3:51 pm : link
2 teams that lined up and slugged it out.
You would never have more than 2 on rookie contracts  
njm : 1/8/2015 3:51 pm : link
If the LBs had come in bunches they might have stayed for a while, kind of like the cap benefit the Seahawks are getting from Russell Wilson's contract. But Van Pelt arrived in '73, Carson in '76, LT in '81, Banks in '84 and Pepper in '86. At most you would have had 2 on rookie contracts. But no way in hell could a team have Carson, LT and Banks all with 2nd contracts.
there was a weird dynamic there  
Greg from LI : 1/8/2015 3:52 pm : link
The Giants always beat the Redskins, the Redskins always beat the Eagles, and the Eagles always beat the Giants.
Yup,  
Big Blue '56 : 1/8/2015 3:53 pm : link
eerily similar to Ali beats Frazier, Frazier easily dispatches Norton and Norton could have won all 3 against Ali..:)
Funny  
NNJ Tom : 1/8/2015 3:54 pm : link
I feel like toast for dinner.
RE: Greg it was 11-2..  
Matt in SGS : 1/8/2015 3:54 pm : link
In comment 12082906 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
I remember the next week the Skins traveled to Denver where they lost 31-30(?) on a missed extra point..It was a Saturday game. We clinched the division the next day


BB, technically, they clinched the division when the Redskins lost that game at Denver (they blew a 13-0 lead and missed an extra point). The next game was against the Cardinals and the Giants killed them and should have shut them out. The Cardinals got a garbage late TD when Stump Mitchell was held up behind the line and he flung a pass to Roy Green in the end zone. That Cardinals game and the Packers win in the finale clinched homefield over the Bears even though they both finished 14-2. The Giants had an AFC loss to Seattle, the Bears had 2 NFC losses (Rams and Vikings) so the Giants got the tie breaker.
hahaha....not the nickname you want as a corner  
Greg from LI : 1/8/2015 3:57 pm : link
Kind of like when Tim McKyer's career was cratering in Atlanta and the local media started calling him Highway 22 (as in, the road to the end zone is Highway 22).
Thanks Matt  
Big Blue '56 : 1/8/2015 3:57 pm : link
for the correction
Wasn't Stump Mitchell a thorn in our side  
Big Blue '56 : 1/8/2015 3:58 pm : link
or am I misremembering?
Too bad Young didn't select Reggie White  
Giants2012 : 1/8/2015 3:59 pm : link
The Giants may have defeated the 85 Bears with that defense. Certainly would have helped in 88 and 89.
RE: there was a weird dynamic there  
BillKo : 1/8/2015 4:17 pm : link
In comment 12082931 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
The Giants always beat the Redskins, the Redskins always beat the Eagles, and the Eagles always beat the Giants.


The answer was the line of scrimmage.

Versus the Eagles, we couldn't control it, and eventually the Eagles forced the Giants, and namely Simms, into a mistake(s). There was also a lot of fortunate bounces for the Birds.

The Redskins always played it safe versus the Giants, or couldn't blitz effectively, and Simms ate them up.

The Redskins and Eagles.......I think Gibbs knew how to attack the Eagles defense and had WRs that could expose their secondary. And of course the bumbling Buddy Ryan would just continue to blitz, and Gibbs was all over it.
Had this poster  
pjcas18 : 1/8/2015 4:21 pm : link
when I was a kid.

Wish I had a nice copy of this now.

Here is all you need to know...  
bw in dc : 1/8/2015 4:22 pm : link
LT was one of three greatest football players in history.

Carson is a HOF.

Banks should be in the HOF.

And Pepper Johnson would have been a star on other teams of that era (except the Saints)...
Maybe to Help You Out a Bit  
Aloha Alan : 1/8/2015 4:27 pm : link
Consider the Ravens defense in the early 2000s. The were tough to run on, tough to complete passes against (thank you Ed Reed), and their Lbs anchored by Ray Lewis. They were a total Defense and quite dominant.

In the 80's we were better in my opinion as more physical and more get at the QB better, but like the Ravens, you didn't get too much offense on them or us.
What was it like?  
Daniel in MI : 1/8/2015 4:28 pm : link
It was a feeling of total confidence in the D. The Giants were a physical, beat the crap out of you team. The O ground you down with power, and the D smacked the hell out of you in the swirling winds of Giants stadium. After the 2nd SB, the Bills WRs said they'd never been hit that hard. QBs like Jaws have said LT hit them harder than anyone. And good luck running up the gut against Carson and Reasons. Ear pieces flew. And if one of those guys didn't get you, guys like Burt and Marshall would be happy to put Montana on the bench.

Let's put it this way, the number one thing every DC coordinator says is "we need to stop the run and rush the QB." With our DL that could 2-gap and occupy linemen, and a dominant set of big, strong LBs we could do both.

In those days, more often than not, the main question was whether the O would be able to do enough for the win. As Simms improved things got better and better. Add the suburbanites, Joe Morris, Carthon, and juuust enough WR talent to make it work. (Remember, we didn't have a pro bowl wide out between Home Jones and Steve Smith.)
RE: Wasn't Stump Mitchell a thorn in our side  
Matt in SGS : 1/8/2015 4:51 pm : link
In comment 12082950 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
or am I misremembering?


Mitchell was a pain in a few games against the Giants. He put up over 100 yards when they beat the Giants in their final game in St. Louis in 1987. He also put up 100 yards and a TD in that horrific 20-20 tie game on that Monday Night in 1983, which set football back about 2 decades.

However, his career ended against the Giants in 1989 when he tore his ACL and I remember OJ Anderson coming out to give him a hug as he was on the cart, which showed a lot about OJ as a person since it was Mitchell who essentially replaced him as the lead back with the Cardinals and got him traded to the Giants.
How did other teams handle our 80's LB's?  
jsuds : 1/8/2015 4:57 pm : link
Basically for a good stretch of that decade it was typical to see opposing offenses drives consistently go for negative yards. They just went backwards most of the time!
Great thread..  
coop2 : 1/8/2015 5:39 pm : link
Watch Byron Hunt in pass coverage intercepting Danny White to get the Giants into the playoffs for the first time in forever. I wish we had him now to shut down Jason Witten.
Big Blue 56  
Emlen'sGremlins : 1/8/2015 5:45 pm : link
Frazier never fought Norton.
RE: Great thread..  
Matt in SGS : 1/8/2015 5:47 pm : link
In comment 12083165 coop2 said:
Quote:
Watch Byron Hunt in pass coverage intercepting Danny White to get the Giants into the playoffs for the first time in forever. I wish we had him now to shut down Jason Witten.


Coop2,

You mean here? ;)
http://bigbluevcr.blogspot.com/2012/08/1981-giants-v-cowboys.html - ( New Window )
And don't forget that....  
Emlen'sGremlins : 1/8/2015 5:48 pm : link
Steve DeOssie started over Gary Reasons and Johnnie Cooks started over Carl Banks in 1989 and 1990 due to Parcells' dog house and injuries.
Yeah, should have said Foreman  
Big Blue '56 : 1/8/2015 6:06 pm : link
.
RE: RE: Great thread..  
jeff57 : 1/8/2015 6:08 pm : link
In comment 12083178 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
In comment 12083165 coop2 said:


Quote:


Watch Byron Hunt in pass coverage intercepting Danny White to get the Giants into the playoffs for the first time in forever. I wish we had him now to shut down Jason Witten.



Coop2,

You mean here? ;) http://bigbluevcr.blogspot.com/2012/08/1981-giants-v-cowboys.html - ( New Window )


Thanks for posting that.
The 80s All Decade Team  
RetroJint : 1/8/2015 9:18 pm : link
was the era of the 3-4 linebackers, featured Taylor, Carson & Banks. The era of the linebacker. That designation alone should be a substantial building block to an HOF award for Banks. It will probably never happen. Put Johnnie Cooks in there along with Byron Hunt and Andy Headen as other significant contributors.

Their main arch-nemisis was the Rams of Johnny Robinson, John Madden's best childhood friend. They would run double verticles against the 2 Bills Cover 2, then leak #39, Robert Delpino, from Missouri, into the flat. Delpino would turn upfield. It would be seemingly 10 yards before Delpino met any contact. Fortunately the 2 teams did not play all that much, although the Rams knocked one of Parcells best teams out of the playoffs in 89. In OT Flipper Anderson ran past the great Mark Collins, who had hid a fractured ankle from the trainers.

Couple of thoughts about the NFC Championship Game over the Redskins. The most dominate element that day was the wind. Phil Simms was something like 4-15 for 68 yards, with really only one clutch throw over the middle to Lionel Manuel, who had just returned to the lineup for that game. Schroeder actually threw the baller better. In fact both Gary Clark and Ricky Sanders dropped over-the-shoulder bombs. These guys had beaten their coverage. Simple as that. 3-4 steps behind the dbs.

Parcells has said many times that Phil McConkey won the game for the Giants. He caught the Redskins punts in the air, while Sanders and a couple of other guys Gibbs tried, let the ball bounce in the wind tunnel. Each exchange of punts cost the Skins 25 yards in net field position. It was that factor, and not a pummeling of former minor-league catcher Jay, that mattered most in completing the sweep of Washington.
RE: My comment is....  
Giant in DC : 1/9/2015 11:17 am : link
In comment 12082790 Emlen'sGremlins said:
Quote:
...this is precisely why we're so put off by the defense we've seen for the past several years.

My father grew up on Huff, Robustelli, Katcavage, Grier and Modzelewki. I grew up on Carson, Taylor, Banks, Martin, Burt and Marshall. And in more recent times we had Strahan, Osi, Tuck etc.

Defense is the life blood of this franchise and it needs to be restored back to its former glory.


Yeah, but kids today are gonna be talking about growing up with Cruz and ODB. Being like you and growing up on LT and Banks,it doesn't feel the same, but it's a different NFL now. Those LBs of the past would be penalized and fined all day long. I have a tradition of only wearing Giants jerseys of LBs (LT, Armstead, Pierce) but I haven't found any active players worthy of getting a jersey in a while.
RE: Andy Headen could have started for most of the teams in football  
Disgruntled NYGfan : 1/9/2015 5:10 pm : link
In comment 12082755 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
They generally played a soft 2-deep zone, dropping the safeties deep. They were very tough to go over the top on, because of that deep zone and the strong pass rush. You'd have opporunities to throw underneath on them, but you'd pay the price because virtually everyone on that team could lay the lumber.


I think it was actually a four-deep, because it was described as an "umbrella zone". Other than that, your post is spot on. They were willing to give up short stuff, and count on the opposing offense to not be 100% precise and patient if the pass rush didn't get home, or to be afraid to take hits after catching the ball.
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