I was born in '88, so I never got see to the Giant defenses of the 80s live. Given the state of our D, I can't help but think what it would be like to have that type of LB corps today.
LT, Carl Banks, Harry Carson, Pepper Johnson, and Gary Reasons? That is downright terrifying. I mean, how did other teams move the ball? Wondering if some of the older guys who were lucky enough to witness can comment.
Not to mention Leonard Marshall?
Harry Carson also had a tackle on Roger Craig early in the game on a third-and-short that must've kocked a few molars loose.
The Giants' defense of the '80s was based on two main things - abusing the QB and smothering the run. They actually didn't blitz much at all, usually rushing the lineman plus LT, which of course made for an awesome pass rush. Carl Banks was a rock on the strong side, handling the opposing TEs. Carson, Reasons and Pepper were terrific run-stuffers. They generally played a soft 2-deep zone, dropping the safeties deep. They were very tough to go over the top on, because of that deep zone and the strong pass rush. You'd have opporunities to throw underneath on them, but you'd pay the price because virtually everyone on that team could lay the lumber.
Add Van Pelt to that list of great LB's as well. That defense kept Giants in every game. There were no lopsided losses then. Giant fans just assumed the defense would be great.
That said, he went on to say that people would not believe how much he and Carson had to clean up on LT's mistakes..
Just an FYI
Add Van Pelt to that list of great LB's as well. That defense kept Giants in every game. There were no lopsided losses then. Giant fans just assumed the defense would be great.
Depends when the players came into the league. The Niners were able to have Smith, Willis, Bowman and Brooks. Not a bad group. You couldn't keep them together as long, maybe a couple of years, as long as their entry was staggered.
The Giants LBs of that time really started with Brian Kelley and Brad van Pelt (along with Taylor Carson and Banks).
In addition to Headon and Hunt, they had all of these great underrated guys on defense: Erik Howard, Jerome Salley, John Washington, Peeper Johnson, Dan Lloyd - guys like that. Throw in Marshall and martin and presto
Those D'backs (Collins, Williams, Kinard, Patterson, Hill)did a hell of job too
Byron was also LT's roommate, so his off the field stories were even more eventful. LT is very very lucky that there was no TMZ, internet, Deadspin, and Goodell around today. He'd be thrown out of the NFL.
My father grew up on Huff, Robustelli, Katcavage, Grier and Modzelewki. I grew up on Carson, Taylor, Banks, Martin, Burt and Marshall. And in more recent times we had Strahan, Osi, Tuck etc.
Defense is the life blood of this franchise and it needs to be restored back to its former glory.
Byron was also LT's roommate, so his off the field stories were even more eventful. LT is very very lucky that there was no TMZ, internet, Deadspin, and Goodell around today. He'd be thrown out of the NFL.
Haha, could very well be
I think that was the game in St. Louis in 1981, late in the year. LT blitzed and sacked Lomax on a delay and Parcells yelled at him that he was supposed to drop in coverage. The next series he did the same thing, but this time caused a fumble that Martin returned for a TD and Parcells said they don't have that in the playbook, and LT told him that they should put it in there now.
Ah, the glory that was Rome.
Those guys were incredible. Banks would just clobber every TE at the LOS. And all the DBs could tackle. You could not run on that team.
How about LT against the Redskins in 1985 at Giants Stadium? End around to I think Gary Clark. LT runs down the LOS and is waiting there for Clark when he made the turn up field and just destroyed him. You could see from his movement that Clark was stunned to see LT in front of him.
Add Van Pelt to that list of great LB's as well. That defense kept Giants in every game. There were no lopsided losses then. Giant fans just assumed the defense would be great.
So true
I miss that.
I miss that.
Well, there was like a 40 mph wind blowing throughout the game.
Greg he did. A few plays earlier, he was hit by either Reasons or Carson and took a shot to the head. Back in 1986, concussions were just "get your bell rung" and give some smelling salts and get back out there. If you bought the Giants 10 game DVD collection, they actually edited that part out of the game. Summerall started yelling, as the clock was going down to 0 and Burt was throwing cups of gatorade into the stands, that Schroeder had collapsed and crumpled to the turf. With the NFL crackdown on youtube, it might be gone, but there was a video of the original CBS broadcast and you can see that part again.
Yeah, just ask the 1990 Bills about that strategy. By the end of the Super Bowl game the receivers were punished to the point of being afraid to go over the middle.
That was the first regular season game that I had ever attended. They had a bus tour from North Carolina to the game and I jumped at the chance. I remember it like it was yesterday.
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They generally played a soft 2-deep zone, dropping the safeties deep. They were very tough to go over the top on, because of that deep zone and the strong pass rush. You'd have opporunities to throw underneath on them, but you'd pay the price because virtually everyone on that team could lay the lumber.
Yeah, just ask the 1990 Bills about that strategy. By the end of the Super Bowl game the receivers were punished to the point of being afraid to go over the middle.
The front 7 was so dominant from 84-87 that all they asked the DBs to do was not give up the big play. Think about it: The front 7 was so good that they won the SB with Elvis Patterson and Kenny Hill in the secondary.
Link - ( New Window )
BB, technically, they clinched the division when the Redskins lost that game at Denver (they blew a 13-0 lead and missed an extra point). The next game was against the Cardinals and the Giants killed them and should have shut them out. The Cardinals got a garbage late TD when Stump Mitchell was held up behind the line and he flung a pass to Roy Green in the end zone. That Cardinals game and the Packers win in the finale clinched homefield over the Bears even though they both finished 14-2. The Giants had an AFC loss to Seattle, the Bears had 2 NFC losses (Rams and Vikings) so the Giants got the tie breaker.
The answer was the line of scrimmage.
Versus the Eagles, we couldn't control it, and eventually the Eagles forced the Giants, and namely Simms, into a mistake(s). There was also a lot of fortunate bounces for the Birds.
The Redskins always played it safe versus the Giants, or couldn't blitz effectively, and Simms ate them up.
The Redskins and Eagles.......I think Gibbs knew how to attack the Eagles defense and had WRs that could expose their secondary. And of course the bumbling Buddy Ryan would just continue to blitz, and Gibbs was all over it.
Wish I had a nice copy of this now.
Carson is a HOF.
Banks should be in the HOF.
And Pepper Johnson would have been a star on other teams of that era (except the Saints)...
In the 80's we were better in my opinion as more physical and more get at the QB better, but like the Ravens, you didn't get too much offense on them or us.
Let's put it this way, the number one thing every DC coordinator says is "we need to stop the run and rush the QB." With our DL that could 2-gap and occupy linemen, and a dominant set of big, strong LBs we could do both.
In those days, more often than not, the main question was whether the O would be able to do enough for the win. As Simms improved things got better and better. Add the suburbanites, Joe Morris, Carthon, and juuust enough WR talent to make it work. (Remember, we didn't have a pro bowl wide out between Home Jones and Steve Smith.)
Mitchell was a pain in a few games against the Giants. He put up over 100 yards when they beat the Giants in their final game in St. Louis in 1987. He also put up 100 yards and a TD in that horrific 20-20 tie game on that Monday Night in 1983, which set football back about 2 decades.
However, his career ended against the Giants in 1989 when he tore his ACL and I remember OJ Anderson coming out to give him a hug as he was on the cart, which showed a lot about OJ as a person since it was Mitchell who essentially replaced him as the lead back with the Cardinals and got him traded to the Giants.
Coop2,
You mean here? ;)
http://bigbluevcr.blogspot.com/2012/08/1981-giants-v-cowboys.html - ( New Window )
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Watch Byron Hunt in pass coverage intercepting Danny White to get the Giants into the playoffs for the first time in forever. I wish we had him now to shut down Jason Witten.
Coop2,
You mean here? ;) http://bigbluevcr.blogspot.com/2012/08/1981-giants-v-cowboys.html - ( New Window )
Thanks for posting that.
Their main arch-nemisis was the Rams of Johnny Robinson, John Madden's best childhood friend. They would run double verticles against the 2 Bills Cover 2, then leak #39, Robert Delpino, from Missouri, into the flat. Delpino would turn upfield. It would be seemingly 10 yards before Delpino met any contact. Fortunately the 2 teams did not play all that much, although the Rams knocked one of Parcells best teams out of the playoffs in 89. In OT Flipper Anderson ran past the great Mark Collins, who had hid a fractured ankle from the trainers.
Couple of thoughts about the NFC Championship Game over the Redskins. The most dominate element that day was the wind. Phil Simms was something like 4-15 for 68 yards, with really only one clutch throw over the middle to Lionel Manuel, who had just returned to the lineup for that game. Schroeder actually threw the baller better. In fact both Gary Clark and Ricky Sanders dropped over-the-shoulder bombs. These guys had beaten their coverage. Simple as that. 3-4 steps behind the dbs.
Parcells has said many times that Phil McConkey won the game for the Giants. He caught the Redskins punts in the air, while Sanders and a couple of other guys Gibbs tried, let the ball bounce in the wind tunnel. Each exchange of punts cost the Skins 25 yards in net field position. It was that factor, and not a pummeling of former minor-league catcher Jay, that mattered most in completing the sweep of Washington.
My father grew up on Huff, Robustelli, Katcavage, Grier and Modzelewki. I grew up on Carson, Taylor, Banks, Martin, Burt and Marshall. And in more recent times we had Strahan, Osi, Tuck etc.
Defense is the life blood of this franchise and it needs to be restored back to its former glory.
Yeah, but kids today are gonna be talking about growing up with Cruz and ODB. Being like you and growing up on LT and Banks,it doesn't feel the same, but it's a different NFL now. Those LBs of the past would be penalized and fined all day long. I have a tradition of only wearing Giants jerseys of LBs (LT, Armstead, Pierce) but I haven't found any active players worthy of getting a jersey in a while.
I think it was actually a four-deep, because it was described as an "umbrella zone". Other than that, your post is spot on. They were willing to give up short stuff, and count on the opposing offense to not be 100% precise and patient if the pass rush didn't get home, or to be afraid to take hits after catching the ball.