A good read. He likes Fels better than Donnell because of blocking, consistency and Donnell's fumbles. The JPP of tight ends didn't get enough snaps to grade. Link - ( New Window )
..But as the season progressed and Donnell wore down, the warts started to show ‐ fumbles, drops and sub-par blocking. His production tapered. By the end of the season, the Giants were excluding him from specific run packages in favor of Fells
I agree completely. But many on BBI seem to think he's above average and has great hands.
adding a TE in the draft, but i think we'd be ok with fells and donell next year. I think LD is going to improve this off season. I think he is a plus pass catcher. He needs to get stronger and work on his blocking. If he is willing to put in the work, which i think he is, i see no reason to think he won't improve. I hope Robinson is not guaranteed a roster spot next year. he played better the second half of the season, but nothing impressive.
1. There are too many positions of greater needs (e.g., OL, DL, LB, Safety, Pass rushers, RB, and possibly WR)
2. IMHO, this years TE committee though nothing spectacular is serviceable
3. JR (and possibly TC) for some reason don't place a premium on the TE position. Sure they drafted Shockey early, but he was thought of as a freak and difference maker (not to mention the team didn't skip a beat winning a SB after he went down)
disappeared in the 2nd half of the season, but it is not shocking. as said above, first year actually playing, was a converted QB. He needs to get stronger and learn to block better, and some other nuances of the game. That said, I think he has the potential to be a legit TE in the NFL. As a pass catcher, he had a very good season. he is natural catching the ball. blocking, ball security, 'landing' are things that can be learned. There is so many holes on the roster, i can't see the giants using a day 1 or 2 pick on TE.
I'm not a draft expert, but preliminary stuff i have seen indicate that it is not a great year for TEs. which could push the few there are up higher then they should go
and getting stronger. re: the ball security issues - maybe he should go to one of those gymnastic camps where you can do the flips while wearing the safety harness? make him hold onto the ball when he flips over, he seems to have a problem with that. a couple of times I saw him coough the ball up, I wondered if he loosened his grip on the ball in order to prepare to break his fall.
1. There are too many positions of greater needs (e.g., OL, DL, LB, Safety, Pass rushers, RB, and possibly WR)
2. IMHO, this years TE committee though nothing spectacular is serviceable
3. JR (and possibly TC) for some reason don't place a premium on the TE position. Sure they drafted Shockey early, but he was thought of as a freak and difference maker (not to mention the team didn't skip a beat winning a SB after he went down)
Agreed. If we can steal a solid TE in the draft, fine, otherwise I wouldn't worry too much about the position right now
but I'd love to see Maxx Williams in blue. This guy isn't going to be around in the third and probably not in the second regardless of what the prognosticators say. He's a player and is going to climb the rankings as we get closer to the draft.
Donnell is a nice story, and I am pulling for him.
Note that he is NOT a first year player by any means so the getting worn down by the length of the season argument is absolutely bullshit.
Also note that his best games were against weak opponents and at a time when he had not shown much so opponents were not worrying about him as a receiver. Later on, when playing better teams and they were ready for him, he simply didn't do much as a receiver, and he's never done squat as a blocker. And the fumbles are killers. That has to stop.
For once I agree with Ranaan, Fells is a better overall player although Donnell does have promise as a plus receiver with his size. It would be nice if he could really deliver on that promise.
In the meantime, the GIANTS need a couple of real TEs so these two can fight it out for the third TE job. But I don't see them acquiring more than one at the most in this off-season so I expect that both of these guys will be here next season.
Donnell proved to me that he's worthy to keep developing.
Ideally, I'd like to bring in a solid veteran who's had experience in this league, can block and we can continue to let Donnell develop as a pass catcher.
Ideally, I'd like to bring in a solid veteran who's had experience in this league, can block and we can continue to let Donnell develop as a pass catcher.
By the time he develops he will be 30 and Eli will have grandkids.
Yes the fumbles were killers, but Donnel really had not been in this position before, from the jump he made last year, if he can improve on that next year (imagine he had only 1 fumble) the giants probably have at least 1 if not 2 more wins.
Also, don't overlook they added a TE to the active roster from the PS. They have a history of developing and building their tight ends. It's a fairly good sign to see they rewarded this player with 3 other players on the roster. The comments on he would be good on specials are all positive. I think his name was Cunningham and unless his frame is maxed out I think they'll look to have him add 10 lbs in the offseason for next year. Not saying this guy is going to be anything, but following how they develop these guys, he is trending on that path ...
Although we didnt have a complete TE this year, and mistakes were made at the TE position, the TE position wasnt a major cause of the Giants woeful record. The team lost the battle in the trenches. On one side we couldnt run the ball, on the other side we couldnt stop the run. I think the team will use its premium picks focusing on the areas that cost us games. I dont think TE is a top 5 worry, and I think Larry D. showed enough to hold off one more year.
RE: RE: Donnell proved to me that he's worthy to keep developing.
Ideally, I'd like to bring in a solid veteran who's had experience in this league, can block and we can continue to let Donnell develop as a pass catcher.
By the time he develops he will be 30 and Eli will have grandkids.
I'd like to add a guy like Jermaine Gresham who I think can block, but also be a threat with a QB like Eli. Donnell would be a fantastic plan B and I think he deserves a chance at the #2 TE. I'd like Fells to compete for that as well, but they are the plan B, not plan A.
but if the opportunity presents itself to get a real upgrade I think we look at it. MY guess is that OBJ is going to have DCs shitting themselves next year, and a the middle of the field is going to be wide open as safties are forced to ghost OBJ on every play.
Yes the fumbles were killers, but Donnel really had not been in this position before, from the jump he made last year, if he can improve on that next year (imagine he had only 1 fumble) the giants probably have at least 1 if not 2 more wins.
Also, don't overlook they added a TE to the active roster from the PS. They have a history of developing and building their tight ends. It's a fairly good sign to see they rewarded this player with 3 other players on the roster. The comments on he would be good on specials are all positive. I think his name was Cunningham and unless his frame is maxed out I think they'll look to have him add 10 lbs in the offseason for next year. Not saying this guy is going to be anything, but following how they develop these guys, he is trending on that path ...
I think what this really means is that Eli really likes throwing to his TE's and really works well with a TE in the middle of the field. I think Eli makes below average players like Ballard and Boss a little better and he makes an average player like Donnell like a slightly better than average player. Can you imagine if Eli actually had a good TE to throw to? He just needs to be a reliable TE that can get open a little, he doesn't need to be a huge down the field threat.
Ideally, I'd like to bring in a solid veteran who's had experience in this league, can block and we can continue to let Donnell develop as a pass catcher.
By the time he develops he will be 30 and Eli will have grandkids.
I'd like to add a guy like Jermaine Gresham who I think can block, but also be a threat with a QB like Eli. Donnell would be a fantastic plan B and I think he deserves a chance at the #2 TE. I'd like Fells to compete for that as well, but they are the plan B, not plan A.
I am want a pass threat. Fuck, if csnt block i am fine with that if the guy can actually can catch passes and be a consistent threat.
Why do people think 2 way TE's are everywhere. There is Bennett and that is about it. Witten does not block, Graham does not block, Gronk is not a blocker, Gates does not block. The Colts TE can't block, Eagles TE cant block, V. Davis hasn't blocked anyone in 5 years.
You want a better blocking TE - he will will catch 30 passes
RE: RE: RE: Donnell proved to me that he's worthy to keep developing.
Ideally, I'd like to bring in a solid veteran who's had experience in this league, can block and we can continue to let Donnell develop as a pass catcher.
By the time he develops he will be 30 and Eli will have grandkids.
I'd like to add a guy like Jermaine Gresham who I think can block, but also be a threat with a QB like Eli. Donnell would be a fantastic plan B and I think he deserves a chance at the #2 TE. I'd like Fells to compete for that as well, but they are the plan B, not plan A.
Gresham has been criminally underused in Cincinnati. The guy can be a great two way TE. I would love him in blue.
he's quite possibly the best two way TE in NFL history. Bavaro is the only one who I can think of that is close. And non-Giants fans probably think that's homerism on my part.
Why do people think 2 way TE's are everywhere. There is Bennett and that is about it. Witten does not block, Graham does not block, Gronk is not a blocker, Gates does not block. The Colts TE can't block, Eagles TE cant block, V. Davis hasn't blocked anyone in 5 years.
You want a better blocking TE - he will will catch 30 passes
There is just so much wrong with this post. Gronk is a great blocker, olsen is a great blocker, witten is one of the best. Which colts TE are you referring to? Eagles?
If that's the case then I hope we can get him. As seasons go on, I realize I miss someone liek Shockey. The passion he brought and ability to pump the team and crowd up. I want to see how a TE can be utilized in this new system.
than Donnell(because he totally sucked), that's not saying much....he wiffed on quite a few and did not drive his guy, kind of steered him.....I don't understand how he gets an A- and Fells gets a B with 63 receptions.....
Devastating blocker....soft hands....can hurdle defenders with a single bound....Academic All American....son of Brian....dad was former 1st Round pick for BIG Blue in 1989 and would've had a really good career if he didn't get poked in the eye. Hopefully he's around in Round 2 after we take an OL road grader or front seven impact defender in the 1st.
Of 2013. Donnell, who is a decent receiver, is a former college QB who is bad ad blocking......bad. I hate to say it but it may be time to invest in the position. If you have a legit TE you will improve the game in several areas: redzone offense, run game, passing game, pass pro, short yardage. Most west coast offenses need a true TE. I'm not saying we haven't had production, we have, but has either guy mentioned make you think we should ignore the position in the upcoming off season????
Why do people think 2 way TE's are everywhere. There is Bennett and that is about it. Witten does not block, Graham does not block, Gronk is not a blocker, Gates does not block. The Colts TE can't block, Eagles TE cant block, V. Davis hasn't blocked anyone in 5 years.
You want a better blocking TE - he will will catch 30 passes
There is just so much wrong with this post. Gronk is a great blocker, olsen is a great blocker, witten is one of the best. Which colts TE are you referring to? Eagles?
Heath Miller too.
not giving AR some minutes with nothing to play for is criminal
coach in the NFL, blocking has got to be the most coachable skill. There are many players who come into this league not knowing how to block, and wind up being able to do so. Shockey couldn't block for shit when he came in...neither could Witten. Bennett was a terrible blocker his first year in the league.
Donnell has some smarts. He was a QB afterall. I think more than anything else, the only thing I'm worried about about him is his aggressiveness. He needs to WANT to block and he needs to be more aggressive going up for the balll and running with it. Would love to see him run thru a few guys.
He develops some snarl, and look out...we might have one of the better ones in the league.
is the first FA option I've heard in MONTHS that is realistic and catches my interest. I'm so sick of hearing about Suh who will cost more and do less than JPP... unless you're looking for stupid suspensions and personal fouls. Those who talk about Donnell not being able to block and Fells being able to do so should probably do more research... do you rob Peter to pay Paul, or not? How well do you thing Fells blocked in his first real year of PT? Honestly? Donnell caught passes, yards, and touchdowns that rivaled some of the best TE's in the league. What do you folks friggin' want to see in a receiving TE? Gronkowskis aned Grahams or solid two-way TE's don't grow on trees. Donnell and Robinson are still young and lack PT...Fells is a veteran in the twilight of his respectable but limited career. WHAT WOULD YOU EXPECT when comparing first/second year players vs a second or third contract vet? I vote bring them all to camp, and let ARob beat out Fells. PT makes a HUGE difference in a players comfort and reliability...and ARob has REALLY improved his blocking in very limited PT by the way.
and I didn't mean this to sound as an Adrian Robinson support thread cuz I'm NOT a huge suppporter...I'm just thinking ability, salary, and performance in an basic context.
is sign a Tight End who excels at blocking. If we could get a guy like Bennet who was underused that would be even better, but I'd be happy with a guy who can block.
I don't care how athletic or tall Donnell is, he just doesn't move or play like a TE. If Fells had been given as many targets as Donnell, I think he might have even better stats than Donnell. Frankly, I saw Donnell misplay as many jump balls as he caught, maybe more.
And I don't think Fells is wonderful either. If a decent TE comes loose in FA, I hope the Giants make a play for him. The draft doesn't look too good for TE.
Best take in the thread. Fells almost got Eli killed 3-4 times by either whiffing in protection blocking or going for the wrong guy. I think he's labeled a good blocker in much the same way that a guy who can't shoot in basketball automatically qualifies as a defensive genius. Need another guy. Robinson is fine as the third guy in case the main receiving TE goes down to injury .
Donell hopefully can improve to an average blocker. He made
great strides as a receiver. But he has to cut out the fumbles. He needs to be taught how to hold the ball. And also learn to stay on his feet. This isn't high school.
In terms of return, Donnell was a top 5 player for the Giants in 2014. The guy made massive strides and gave us a great return on that contract (which BTW, will be the case next season).
Signing a guy like Gresham is a misuse of resources. We have Donnell next year for nothing. I expect the guy to continue to improve. He has an excellent work ethic. He will take a close look at a few things he needs to improve and he will work his ass off to correct it.
He's got a big payday waiting for him. He knows it and he will come back next year with a lot of motivation. He will be a big contributor next season.
There is no need to spend cash or draft picks on a TE when we have more important holes to fill at G, DL, WR and S.
A #1 or #2, both will see the field. The point is, our three TEs are below average. Donnell is a nice story who's done some good things, but the other two are upgradeable. Donnell won't be long if he doesn't clean up the fumbles, quickly.
I agree we need better blocking from the position and that should be the primary concern. Beckham's emergence should change everything about the passing game. Teams attention to him should open up the middle of the field more for TEs and RBs naturally. TEs will get open looks. As long as they don't have stone hands, they should contribute.
I didn't concentrate much on Fells' blocking. How does it grade out? Is he simply better than Donnell, who sucks? Or, is he a decent blocker?
..But as the season progressed and Donnell wore down, the warts started to show ‐ fumbles, drops and sub-par blocking. His production tapered. By the end of the season, the Giants were excluding him from specific run packages in favor of Fells
I agree completely. But many on BBI seem to think he's above average and has great hands.
1. There are too many positions of greater needs (e.g., OL, DL, LB, Safety, Pass rushers, RB, and possibly WR)
2. IMHO, this years TE committee though nothing spectacular is serviceable
3. JR (and possibly TC) for some reason don't place a premium on the TE position. Sure they drafted Shockey early, but he was thought of as a freak and difference maker (not to mention the team didn't skip a beat winning a SB after he went down)
1. There are too many positions of greater needs (e.g., OL, DL, LB, Safety, Pass rushers, RB, and possibly WR)
2. IMHO, this years TE committee though nothing spectacular is serviceable
3. JR (and possibly TC) for some reason don't place a premium on the TE position. Sure they drafted Shockey early, but he was thought of as a freak and difference maker (not to mention the team didn't skip a beat winning a SB after he went down)
Agreed. If we can steal a solid TE in the draft, fine, otherwise I wouldn't worry too much about the position right now
Note that he is NOT a first year player by any means so the getting worn down by the length of the season argument is absolutely bullshit.
Also note that his best games were against weak opponents and at a time when he had not shown much so opponents were not worrying about him as a receiver. Later on, when playing better teams and they were ready for him, he simply didn't do much as a receiver, and he's never done squat as a blocker. And the fumbles are killers. That has to stop.
For once I agree with Ranaan, Fells is a better overall player although Donnell does have promise as a plus receiver with his size. It would be nice if he could really deliver on that promise.
In the meantime, the GIANTS need a couple of real TEs so these two can fight it out for the third TE job. But I don't see them acquiring more than one at the most in this off-season so I expect that both of these guys will be here next season.
By the time he develops he will be 30 and Eli will have grandkids.
Also, don't overlook they added a TE to the active roster from the PS. They have a history of developing and building their tight ends. It's a fairly good sign to see they rewarded this player with 3 other players on the roster. The comments on he would be good on specials are all positive. I think his name was Cunningham and unless his frame is maxed out I think they'll look to have him add 10 lbs in the offseason for next year. Not saying this guy is going to be anything, but following how they develop these guys, he is trending on that path ...
Quote:
Ideally, I'd like to bring in a solid veteran who's had experience in this league, can block and we can continue to let Donnell develop as a pass catcher.
By the time he develops he will be 30 and Eli will have grandkids.
I'd like to add a guy like Jermaine Gresham who I think can block, but also be a threat with a QB like Eli. Donnell would be a fantastic plan B and I think he deserves a chance at the #2 TE. I'd like Fells to compete for that as well, but they are the plan B, not plan A.
Also, don't overlook they added a TE to the active roster from the PS. They have a history of developing and building their tight ends. It's a fairly good sign to see they rewarded this player with 3 other players on the roster. The comments on he would be good on specials are all positive. I think his name was Cunningham and unless his frame is maxed out I think they'll look to have him add 10 lbs in the offseason for next year. Not saying this guy is going to be anything, but following how they develop these guys, he is trending on that path ...
I think what this really means is that Eli really likes throwing to his TE's and really works well with a TE in the middle of the field. I think Eli makes below average players like Ballard and Boss a little better and he makes an average player like Donnell like a slightly better than average player. Can you imagine if Eli actually had a good TE to throw to? He just needs to be a reliable TE that can get open a little, he doesn't need to be a huge down the field threat.
Quote:
In comment 12083413 kmed said:
Quote:
Ideally, I'd like to bring in a solid veteran who's had experience in this league, can block and we can continue to let Donnell develop as a pass catcher.
By the time he develops he will be 30 and Eli will have grandkids.
I'd like to add a guy like Jermaine Gresham who I think can block, but also be a threat with a QB like Eli. Donnell would be a fantastic plan B and I think he deserves a chance at the #2 TE. I'd like Fells to compete for that as well, but they are the plan B, not plan A.
I am want a pass threat. Fuck, if csnt block i am fine with that if the guy can actually can catch passes and be a consistent threat.
You want a better blocking TE - he will will catch 30 passes
Quote:
In comment 12083413 kmed said:
Quote:
Ideally, I'd like to bring in a solid veteran who's had experience in this league, can block and we can continue to let Donnell develop as a pass catcher.
By the time he develops he will be 30 and Eli will have grandkids.
I'd like to add a guy like Jermaine Gresham who I think can block, but also be a threat with a QB like Eli. Donnell would be a fantastic plan B and I think he deserves a chance at the #2 TE. I'd like Fells to compete for that as well, but they are the plan B, not plan A.
Gresham has been criminally underused in Cincinnati. The guy can be a great two way TE. I would love him in blue.
You want a better blocking TE - he will will catch 30 passes
There is just so much wrong with this post. Gronk is a great blocker, olsen is a great blocker, witten is one of the best. Which colts TE are you referring to? Eagles?
everyone on this board thought the Giants had nothing
what Reese said he was confident on what we had
there was bloody murder on this board
if you told anyone last year we would have a TE that was #8 in catches
and a backup TE who would emerge as a solid receiver and blocker
everyone would be have not believed it
Fell and Donnell will continue their progress next year ..
Quote:
Why do people think 2 way TE's are everywhere. There is Bennett and that is about it. Witten does not block, Graham does not block, Gronk is not a blocker, Gates does not block. The Colts TE can't block, Eagles TE cant block, V. Davis hasn't blocked anyone in 5 years.
You want a better blocking TE - he will will catch 30 passes
There is just so much wrong with this post. Gronk is a great blocker, olsen is a great blocker, witten is one of the best. Which colts TE are you referring to? Eagles?
Heath Miller too.
Donnell has some smarts. He was a QB afterall. I think more than anything else, the only thing I'm worried about about him is his aggressiveness. He needs to WANT to block and he needs to be more aggressive going up for the balll and running with it. Would love to see him run thru a few guys.
He develops some snarl, and look out...we might have one of the better ones in the league.
and I didn't mean this to sound as an Adrian Robinson support thread cuz I'm NOT a huge suppporter...I'm just thinking ability, salary, and performance in an basic context.
And I don't think Fells is wonderful either. If a decent TE comes loose in FA, I hope the Giants make a play for him. The draft doesn't look too good for TE.
I think that's the guy who voted for Darrin Erstad for the HOF.
Signing a guy like Gresham is a misuse of resources. We have Donnell next year for nothing. I expect the guy to continue to improve. He has an excellent work ethic. He will take a close look at a few things he needs to improve and he will work his ass off to correct it.
He's got a big payday waiting for him. He knows it and he will come back next year with a lot of motivation. He will be a big contributor next season.
There is no need to spend cash or draft picks on a TE when we have more important holes to fill at G, DL, WR and S.
The "Drops" mentioned in the article? That's BS. He has good hands.
Ding ding!!
I tend to agree..I wouldn't mind getting a promising collegian, but NOT in the early rounds..There are more important needs, imo
In order of importance adding another TE is way down the list for me.
I didn't concentrate much on Fells' blocking. How does it grade out? Is he simply better than Donnell, who sucks? Or, is he a decent blocker?