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Following 6-10; Was 2005 the best offseason in team history?

Ben in Tampa : 1/9/2015 10:28 am
I was thinking about the last time Tom Coughlin went into an offseason with the Giants following a 6-10 season. The 2004 and 2014 squads were very different teams, but they did share some similarities. Notably, a roster with just a few superstars and lack of talent in almost all phases.

I looked back at what Acorsi did in the 2005 off season and its really quite remarkable:

FREE AGENCY
  • Plaxico Burress
  • Antonio Pierce
  • Kareem McKenzie

The Giants also signed contributors like Jay Feeley and Bob Whitfield, and a variety of otherwise unremarkable depth players

In an incredibly limited DRAFT
  • Corey Webster
  • Justin Tuck
  • Brandon Jacobs
  • Eric Moore

Wow. Home runs on 3/4 draft picks and three All-Pro players brought in via free agency. Those six players were essential to the 2007 Championship, and Jacobs, McKenzie, Tuck and Webster were part of a championship core that won this franchise 2 titles.

So, '05 is the best offseason in team history, right? I wonder if we can infuse anywhere close to that quantity and quality of talent into the roster in the 2015 offseason.

In the FA era,  
Big Blue '56 : 1/9/2015 10:31 am : link
I would certainly think so
losing that first round pick  
spike : 1/9/2015 10:33 am : link
from the Eli trade turned out to be a blessing, as they had more money available to spend in FA.
Absolutely  
Jay on the Island : 1/9/2015 10:36 am : link
They got a young #1 Receiver, one of the best RT's in the NFL who was only 25, and a 26 year old MLB who was just entering his prime. That was from FA alone.
possibly  
Les in TO : 1/9/2015 10:42 am : link
the 2000 offseason was also really good at least free agency wise - brought in lomas brown, dusty ziegler and glenn parker to shore up the offensive line and michael barrow and thomas who were valuable defensive contributors.

the draft that year produced Ron Dayne Cornelius Griffin Ron Dixon Brandon Short Ralph Brown Dhani Jones and Jeremiah Parker - except for Parker who ended up in jail for beating his ex GF's son who eventually died, the other six guys were valuable contributors.
RE: losing that first round pick  
Danny Kanell : 1/9/2015 10:43 am : link
In comment 12084299 spike said:
Quote:
from the Eli trade turned out to be a blessing, as they had more money available to spend in FA.


I always believed this. Something most people never mention. First rd picks were much more expensive then, especially in the top 10 where we would have been. We used that money to spend on 3 critical free agent acquisitions.
2005 was great,  
an_idol_mind : 1/9/2015 10:45 am : link
but I think it should be viewed as a package with 2004, which brought in a lot of important pieces (Eli, Robbins, Snee, etc.).

2004 changed the face of the team, but there were still glaring gaps. That the 2005 offseason filled those gaps with near perfection is amazing.
I remember being in that offseason, freshman year at college  
yupbjac27 : 1/9/2015 10:45 am : link
and being glued to ESPN rumor mill on down time. Also remember really thinking it was a home run right when we made the moves without seeing any of them play. Had a feeling Plax was going to end up a top 5 received too!
It's been discussed many times here  
Mike in Long Beach : 1/9/2015 10:48 am : link
And yes, that was as good of an offseason you can have.
I always liked '07  
sjnyfan : 1/9/2015 10:49 am : link
Reese's first year at GM and last directing the draft.

Tim Lewis was fired

We cut dead weight in Carlos Emmons, Lavar Arrington and Petitgout

Signed two underrated players in Grey Ruegamer and Kawika Mitchell

Traded for Lawrence Tynes

Draft:

Ross
S. Smith
Alford
DeOssie
Boss
Koets
M. Johnson
Bradshaw

7 of 8 contributed to the SB run

I know the conversation is offseason but during the season we picked up Kevin Boothe, Domenik Hixon, Madison Hedgecock and Danny Ware on waivers

That's as masterful of a job by a front office in retrospect as I can recall

Yes, 2007 was a phenomenal year from the front office  
Ben in Tampa : 1/9/2015 10:54 am : link
Especially the in-season roster moves, as mentioned.

Yes, so much so that I am surprised Reese hasn't followed suit...  
SB : 1/9/2015 10:54 am : link
..in signing a proven productive FA WR or, until the 2014 off season, a proven MLB.
2010 gets a vote in the conversation  
pjcas18 : 1/9/2015 10:59 am : link
signed UFA's Rolle and Deon Grant
drafted JPP and Linval Joseph

Signed UDFA Victor Cruz

RE: Yes, so much so that I am surprised Reese hasn't followed suit...  
Jay on the Island : 1/9/2015 11:00 am : link
In comment 12084373 SB said:
Quote:
..in signing a proven productive FA WR or, until the 2014 off season, a proven MLB.


Reese didn't need to sign a FA WR because he had Plax, Toomer and Steve Smith. Then he had Smith, Manningham, and Nicks then Nicks, Cruz, Randle.
That 07 draft  
Aaron in MA : 1/9/2015 11:10 am : link
Have you ever seen so many rookies play KEY roles in a Super Bowl run?

Ross- Playmaking corner, held welker in check
S. Smith - obvious
Alford- The sack of brady where he went airborne? Probably my favorite single play ever.
DeOssie- Super consistent
Boss- Solid TE, big SB play
Koets
M. Johnson- ST, big fumble recovery in GB
Bradshaw- Shot in the arm of the running game.
Aaron  
Jay on the Island : 1/9/2015 11:26 am : link
Ross didn't hold Welker in check i believe Welker had 12 catches in the SB. However without Ross the Giants would have never beaten Dallas. I remember one play on 3rd down Romo threw a quick pass to Marion Barber on the flat and Ross was the only one there if he didn't make the tackle Barber would have gone all the way for a TD. Ross took Barber down and dislocated his shoulder on the play. To those who claim Ross was a bust I just remember how we never would have made it past that game without him.
2005 was an epic off season....  
Emlen'sGremlins : 1/9/2015 11:26 am : link
....I remember the excitement around here in the opening days of free agency with Pierce and Kareem, and then the epic soap opera with Plax going until Saint Patrick's Day (#17).

I also remember being thrilled that the Giants snagged Tuck in the 3rd Round....they ran to the podium with that selection! One of my two favorite picks in this era (the other being Snee the year prior in the 2nd Round). We need to reinvest in both lines just like that now!

And I forgot who said that the 2000 off season could compare to 2005, but....COME ON, MAN!!
RE: 2005 was an epic off season....  
Les in TO : 1/9/2015 11:40 am : link
In comment 12084460 Emlen'sGremlins said:
Quote:
....I remember the excitement around here in the opening days of free agency with Pierce and Kareem, and then the epic soap opera with Plax going until Saint Patrick's Day (#17).

I also remember being thrilled that the Giants snagged Tuck in the 3rd Round....they ran to the podium with that selection! One of my two favorite picks in this era (the other being Snee the year prior in the 2nd Round). We need to reinvest in both lines just like that now!

And I forgot who said that the 2000 off season could compare to 2005, but....COME ON, MAN!!


2005 is better, but 2000 is in the same ballpark. those FA signings help transform a 7-9 team into a super bowl finalist 12-4 team. especially the offensive line signings (brown ziegler and parker immediately turned a weakness into a strength) and barrow/thomas provided veteran leadership on D.
Another signing that deserves mention: Chad Morton.  
Big Blue Blogger : 1/9/2015 11:43 am : link
He injected life into a moribund punt return unit.

Idol Mind: Good post. 2004 definitely put some key pieces in place.
'05 draft was really incredible  
Scyber : 1/9/2015 12:16 pm : link
3 of the 4 picks were long time starters for the Giants. How many other drafts do 75% of your picks work out so well?
I've always liked the 1986 draft -  
Del Shofner : 1/9/2015 12:26 pm : link

Round Overall Player Position Birthdate College
1 19 Eric Dorsey DE 08/05/1964 Notre Dame
2 44 Mark Collins DB 01/16/1964 Cal State-Fullerton
2 46 Erik Howard DT 11/12/1964 Washington State
2 51 Pepper Johnson LB 07/29/1964 Ohio State
2 53 Greg Lasker DB 09/28/1964 Arkansas
3 73 John Washington DE 02/20/1963 Oklahoma State
^^^^  
Del Shofner : 1/9/2015 12:27 pm : link
BTW, no offense players in those first six picks!
Les, I strongly disagree.  
Emlen'sGremlins : 1/9/2015 1:15 pm : link
The 2000 Giants were a lightning in the bottle, bullshit team led by the consummate BS artist.

And I was at the NFC Championship Game that year standing and screaming my head off from start to finish.

We all saw what happened the next week. They weren't ready for prime time.
In 2005....  
Emlen'sGremlins : 1/9/2015 1:17 pm : link
....we acquired CORE players to establish a strong football program.

In 2000....we acquired RETREADS to go on a one season magic carpet ride.

Big difference.
And "Super Bowl finalist"....  
Emlen'sGremlins : 1/9/2015 1:19 pm : link
....sounds like a term a Jets fan would use.
BigBlue'56  
old man : 1/9/2015 1:28 pm : link
is spot on.
The 86, and 07 drafts prove, if you can evaluate correctly, young guys can elevate the whole rosters game play(see OBJ).
The Plax signing is how I discovered BBI  
GIANTSinDE : 1/9/2015 1:28 pm : link
so YES! And I've been less productive at work ever since!
RE: And  
Les in TO : 1/9/2015 1:30 pm : link
In comment 12084749 Emlen'sGremlins said:
Quote:
....sounds like a term a Jets fan would use.


i agree that 2005 was a better offseason in terms of building a core.

however, getting to the super bowl in 2000 was a success, especially after finishing 7-9 the prior year. there was nothing BS about making the super bowl. finishing in "second place" (and head of 30 other teams) is nothing to be ashamed of, especially given that the ravens defense was one of the most dominant units since the 85 bears. the guys the giants signed that offseason and a fair number of the draft picks played key roles in getting the Giants to the super bowl and in contributing in subsequent seasons (including 2002). if the giants sign a bunch of retreads to fill some gaps to give eli one or two more chances at a SB is that also a BS offseason?
Les  
Emlen'sGremlins : 1/9/2015 1:48 pm : link
Come on. Each one of the ancient FA O-Linemen that you mentioned flamed out after the 2000 season and that draft class contributed next to nothing after that season.
RE: I've always liked the 1986 draft -  
Victor in CT : 1/9/2015 3:09 pm : link
In comment 12084620 Del Shofner said:
Quote:

Round Overall Player Position Birthdate College
1 19 Eric Dorsey DE 08/05/1964 Notre Dame
2 44 Mark Collins DB 01/16/1964 Cal State-Fullerton
2 46 Erik Howard DT 11/12/1964 Washington State
2 51 Pepper Johnson LB 07/29/1964 Ohio State
2 53 Greg Lasker DB 09/28/1964 Arkansas
3 73 John Washington DE 02/20/1963 Oklahoma State


me too. 1983 not too shabby either

Round Overall Player Position Birthdate College
1 10 Terry Kinard DB 11/24/1959 Clemson
2 37 Leonard Marshall DL 10/22/1961 Louisiana State
3 70 Karl Nelson OT 06/14/1960 Iowa State
6 153 Kevin Belcher OG 02/23/1961 Texas-El Paso
7 178 Perry Williams DB 05/12/1961 North Carolina State
8 205 Andy Headen LB 07/08/1960 Clemson
9 237 Ali Haji-Sheikh K 01/11/1961 Michigan
12 335 John Tuggle RB 01/13/1961 California

4 starters, 1 LB who could have started for most teams. People forget how good a C Belcher had become by the end of 1984.
To be accurate, none of Pierce, Plax, or McKenzie  
BlueLou : 1/9/2015 4:48 pm : link
Was ever an All Pro player IIRC. Pierce made one pro bowl, which is still short of being an "All Pro."
To be accurate, none of Pierce, Plax, or McKenzie  
BlueLou : 1/9/2015 4:48 pm : link
Was ever an All Pro player IIRC. Pierce made one pro bowl, which is still short of being an "All Pro."
Victor, 5 starters, not counting Sheik even.  
BlueLou : 1/9/2015 4:52 pm : link
And Nelson was on the way to becoming a very very good OT before the Hodgkin's...
RE: RE: Yes, so much so that I am surprised Reese hasn't followed suit...  
SB : 1/9/2015 9:50 pm : link
In comment 12084384 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 12084373 SB said:


Quote:


..in signing a proven productive FA WR or, until the 2014 off season, a proven MLB.



Reese didn't need to sign a FA WR because he had Plax, Toomer and Steve Smith. Then he had Smith, Manningham, and Nicks then Nicks, Cruz, Randle.


You completely didn't understand my post. he should have signed a legit vet WR instead of drafting the likes of Jernigan and Randle.
He had his flaws but James Butler was signed after the 2005 draft  
Bino5 : 1/9/2015 9:58 pm : link
And contributed to the 2007 championship
RE: I've always liked the 1986 draft -  
Disgruntled NYGfan : 1/10/2015 1:10 pm : link
In comment 12084620 Del Shofner said:
Quote:

Round Overall Player Position Birthdate College
1 19 Eric Dorsey DE 08/05/1964 Notre Dame
2 44 Mark Collins DB 01/16/1964 Cal State-Fullerton
2 46 Erik Howard DT 11/12/1964 Washington State
2 51 Pepper Johnson LB 07/29/1964 Ohio State
2 53 Greg Lasker DB 09/28/1964 Arkansas
3 73 John Washington DE 02/20/1963 Oklahoma State


Defense won Championships. That is an amazing draft.

Might be best draft ever. 84 also gave us Banks and Bavaro,

Back when the draft was like 12-15 rounds, too.
RE: RE: And  
Disgruntled NYGfan : 1/10/2015 1:38 pm : link
In comment 12084769 Les in TO said:
Quote:
In comment 12084749 Emlen'sGremlins said:


Quote:


....sounds like a term a Jets fan would use.



i agree that 2005 was a better offseason in terms of building a core.

however, getting to the super bowl in 2000 was a success, especially after finishing 7-9 the prior year. there was nothing BS about making the super bowl. finishing in "second place" (and head of 30 other teams) is nothing to be ashamed of, especially given that the ravens defense was one of the most dominant units since the 85 bears. the guys the giants signed that offseason and a fair number of the draft picks played key roles in getting the Giants to the super bowl and in contributing in subsequent seasons (including 2002). if the giants sign a bunch of retreads to fill some gaps to give eli one or two more chances at a SB is that also a BS offseason?


Lol, the Jets wish they could say SB finalist over the last 40+ years...

The 2000 team was far from elite, but the NFC was very weak. We were also lucky not to meet the Rams in the playoffs (they did not make it), since the completely outplayed us at home.

The team overachieved that year, but it was still a good team. Lots of solid, very good players, and no holes. Just lacked enough elite players, particularly on offense, to put them over the top.
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