Was very successful with New England. Has plenty of playoff and Super Bowl experience. Goes over to Buffalo and they become the best DL in football with I believe 3 All-Pro players and a great year from Jerry Hughes who many considered a bust.
I admit I am into the nostalgia that Pepper would bring, I admittingly know nothing about his ability to coach a good defense. But that's why I am a fan, I can root for things like this to take place and if it sucks, oh well!
@NYPost_Schwartz: Confirmed: Giants will interview Pepper Johnson for defensive coordinator job next week. Received permission from Bills.
@giantswfan: was expected "@AdamSchefter Giants have requested permission to interview Bills DL coach Pepper Johnson. Interview will happen early this wk
@JordanRaanan: Big question with Pepper Johnson is why did he never get the chance to be DC under Belichick? Why did BB not think he could do it? #giants
@JordanRaanan: Big question with Pepper Johnson is why did he never get the chance to be DC under Belichick? Why did BB not think he could do it? #giants
A question I and many others have asked ad nauseum through the years
The Pats also used a 4-3 very often while Pepper was there. They used a 3-4 very often also. They didn't really have a base D. I would definitely prefer different looks. Have the offense not knowing what to expect. We couldn't run it a whole game, but we could definitely move to 3-4 looks a few times in the game. Ayers-Hankins-Jenkins with JPP and Kennard as pass rushing OLB with McClain and Beason at ILB. Or JPP at DE instead of Jenkins and DaMontre as the OLB.
We have good players in JPP, Moore, Hankins, Ayers, Beason, McClain, Kennard & Cullen. Would definitely like to be more unpredictable. Imagine JPP and DaMontre rushing the QBs blindside together. Could be very nice a couple of series a game.
I think people over think the scheme, some teams are showing both. Baltimore for example, is a base 3-4 scheme, yet on 3rd and long, they rush 4 with Suggs and Dumervil as the Ends. Pepper played in a 3-4 most of his career yet had experience coaching both. That is a good thing.
Came out and said Pepper should be named DC. When an All-Pro and potential HOFer speaks this highly of a coach that's always a good thing. Wilfork "Pepper should be the DC" - ( New Window )
(without the Giants there to beat them a third time), I'll find myself rooting more strongly for the Ravens to lose so that Spags will be available sooner and maybe the open DC position can be filled sooner rather than later.
I'd love for the Giants to get a "leg up" on other teams with open defensive coaching positions and get our pick of the available position coaches.
He definitely could have loved Hufnagle. Don't remember him voicing his opinion on Hufnagle like Wilfork did with Pepper. You don't normally see a player speak publicly as much as Wilfork did with Pepper.
I know a lot of people want Spags and I would like him back also, but the Saints were one of the worst defenses in history with Spags as DC. The Ravens secondary was ranked 24th this past year. If his name wasn't Spagnuolo would anybody want him? His team, defense or position that he was coaching hasn't been successful since 2008.
Doesn't mean anything. Pepper could turn into a great coach or he could be a terrible coach.
I would like Spags for nostalgia purposes as that's the last time we've had a great D, but it was over 6 years ago. He really hasn't been successful since then. His D gave up by far the most yards of all time in a season.
@JordanRaanan: Big question with Pepper Johnson is why did he never get the chance to be DC under Belichick? Why did BB not think he could do it? #giants
A question I and many others have asked ad nauseum through the years
Remember Ray Handley? He was likely only our coach because George Young didn't think Belichick could handle the top spot.
Young was a brilliant football mind, the architect of a blistering defense that brought home two titles, but he wasn't infallible. Neither is Belichick.
PJ could have been passed over in error. I wouldn't bet on Belichick being wrong, but I wouldn't let it cloud my judgement, I'd hear the guy out first.
I only brought up Huf because usually player endorsements don't mean all that much imo..Doesn't mean that Wilfork isn't spot on in this case
Brady only had Huf for one year, and then as a QB coach. He might have been great at that.
He got in over his head and had a melt down as OC with the Giants. Shit happens.
He's done okay in Canada. Different time, different place, different rules.
I only brought up Huf because usually player endorsements don't mean all that much imo..Doesn't mean that Wilfork isn't spot on in this case
Brady only had Huf for one year, and then as a QB coach. He might have been great at that.
He got in over his head and had a melt down as OC with the Giants. Shit happens.
He's done okay in Canada. Different time, different place, different rules.
Expanding on that, can we also say the same about Pepper? Good/great in an assistant's role, but might possibly be over his head as a DC? Perhaps Belichick thought so? Inquiring minds and all that
If you're Spags, wouldn't you be typecasting yourself by going back to where you had prior success?.wouldn't teams think you can only be succcessful on one team if they were considering you for another HC or DC position?
Secondly, with 5 other teams needing new head coaches, wouldn't you want to catch on to another team where you know you can have at least 3 years trying to rehabilitate yourself?
That's a chance you take. We will have no idea until he becomes a DC. His resume is very impressive though so he should certainly be given a shot.
Spags was an assistant for the Eagles for 7 years with a resume worst then Pepper. Nobody gave him a shot for a while. We finally did and it worked out great. Happens every year I'm the NFL.
Dan Quinn was a position coach in the NFL for 12 years before he finally got his shot and that worked out pretty well. There are plenty of position coaches that have rose through the ranks faster then Pepper or Quinn and haven't been successful. Just because he hasn't got a shot after so many years doesn't mean he won't be a great DC.
I definitely wouldn't mind having a guy who played for Parcells & Belichick. Coached with Little Bill and Jim Schwartz. Two HOF coaches and a very good DC.
know if the Ravens will give him permission to interview with us. I don't see why they wouldn't, but they could see him as the new DC in a few years and might want him to stick around.
chance it, TC. 1. Belichick has used 4-3s as well as 3-4s. 2. Pepper will use the hybrid approach regarding passing downs. It is not just how many you send, but who & from what spots on the field. 3. He played & coached under the Bills. 4. He is a Buckeye. 5. Get the damn interview done.
As a previous poster mentioned...while this issue should be investigated it by no way means he wouldn't be a good DC. For example, Todd Bowles had been a positional coach for a better part of 2 decades. He finally received a chance to be a defensive coordinator for several games for the Eagles only because Castillo was fired mid season and they had no option. He then finally got his chance to be a defensive coordinator for the cardinals and now he has done so well he is a hot head coaching candidate.
BB is by no means infallible when it comes to picking assistant coaches. He tends to look for coordinators that reflect his personality and background as well. Mangini, Matt Patricia (who actually has an engineering background), Dean Pees, Josh McDaniels....none played in the NFL...all started out coaching basically right after graduating college.There is a definite pattern in these coordinators that match up to BB's history.
And while BB is a huge success, there is no data to support that coaches with his background are better than former NFL players. There are multiple methods, personalities, and backgrounds, which have all been successful.
At this point why not. There are certainly legit questions regarding NE, especially losing out as DC to a guy who came in 6 years after he did ... but BB did keep him for more than a dozen years
Fresh ideas and a fresh voice are needed. He is also an emotional guy who is willing to say things when needed.
Would everyone be this enthusiastic if he had played for Kansas City?
One of the reasons we had such problems in the 60's and 70's was Welly's penchant for hiring former players.
Gene, even though I'm far from a strong proponent of a Pepper hiring, at least he's had seasoning once his playing days were over..Hiring Webster not too long after he retired to be his HC, or Robustelli to be GM(a disaster) not too long after retirement differs I believe with the Pepper situation..Tunnell and Rosy Brown were good positional hirings imo..
had Pepper not been a Giant, and the type of Giant he was -
being his last with someone who's never been a coordinator before, as much as I love the Pep man. Be interesting to see what happens if the Pats eliminate the Ravens in a few hours.
but he did take a flyer on McAdoo and not bring in a so-called "safer" choice..
I believe if Pepper blows him away as McAdoo did with his knowledge of all things situational, he'll get strong consideration to be DC..He will NOT get the DC job because of his infectious enthusiasm, imo..Not with TC anyway
Pepper would come over in a different capacity than DC and work with Spagnuolo if he is named. Love to get him back with the Giants. Down the line maybe he gets the DC job. Do not see us taking a him without any DC expierience next season. But you never know.
given the fact BB and TC have a lot of respect for one another, whatever issues BB may have had with Pepper, I would think he would share them with TC, so he could make an informed choice.
have we ever requested a Pepper interview before(to our knowledge, that is)? I don't recall if he was or not after Sheridan was let go
I don't know if he got an interview, but I know he was discussed as a possibility in 2010 when the Giants wound up hiring Fewell.
Yes, I remember Pepper being discussed a lot on here before the Fewell hiring..I'm wondering if the media reported anything about us reaching out to Pepper beside BBI discussing him?
Plus, Tom wants power football, Giants smash mouth variety, Pepper seems to want it AND has coached under l'Bill so he has seen smashmouth and finesse, so do not dismiss PJ as a legit DC candidate.
As a previous poster mentioned...while this issue should be investigated it by no way means he wouldn't be a good DC. For example, Todd Bowles had been a positional coach for a better part of 2 decades. He finally received a chance to be a defensive coordinator for several games for the Eagles only because Castillo was fired mid season and they had no option. He then finally got his chance to be a defensive coordinator for the cardinals and now he has done so well he is a hot head coaching candidate.
BB is by no means infallible when it comes to picking assistant coaches. He tends to look for coordinators that reflect his personality and background as well. Mangini, Matt Patricia (who actually has an engineering background), Dean Pees, Josh McDaniels....none played in the NFL...all started out coaching basically right after graduating college.There is a definite pattern in these coordinators that match up to BB's history.
And while BB is a huge success, there is no data to support that coaches with his background are better than former NFL players. There are multiple methods, personalities, and backgrounds, which have all been successful.
@JordanRaanan: Big question with Pepper Johnson is why did he never get the chance to be DC under Belichick? Why did BB not think he could do it? #giants
A question I and many others have asked ad nauseum through the years
Now we are divining the inner workings of the mind of Bill Belichik? Good luck with that.
overstating the experienced DC vs a guy who doesn't have the experience. Not all guys with experience work out and not all guys with no experience suck.
Just look at our very own team. Spags had no experience and he was a great DC for us. Fewell had experience and he was terrible for us.
Same here.. I loved pepper as a player but who knows what this guy can bring as DC.
This is a huge hire for this franchise. If they get it right odds are this entire regime stays intact for another 2-3 years and it's all systems full ahead. If they get this wrong........
@giantswfan: was expected "@AdamSchefter Giants have requested permission to interview Bills DL coach Pepper Johnson. Interview will happen early this wk
There is no Rooney Rule for assistant coaches.
Quote:
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There is no Rooney Rule for assistant coaches.
You missed the sarcasm, I think
Lol
But, I have always trusted and put my faith in TC, so of he is eventually chosen, so be it
This team needs some fresh ideas and a bunch of emotion. I think Pepper can provide it.
Wasn't buffalo a 4-3?
Besides, maybe its something like McAdoo. Worked in a west coast his whole career, comes here and uses that knowledge to create a hybrid of sorts.
That's not completely true. Schwartz runs a 4-3 in Buffalo.
A question I and many others have asked ad nauseum through the years
The Pats also used a 4-3 very often while Pepper was there. They used a 3-4 very often also. They didn't really have a base D. I would definitely prefer different looks. Have the offense not knowing what to expect. We couldn't run it a whole game, but we could definitely move to 3-4 looks a few times in the game. Ayers-Hankins-Jenkins with JPP and Kennard as pass rushing OLB with McClain and Beason at ILB. Or JPP at DE instead of Jenkins and DaMontre as the OLB.
We have good players in JPP, Moore, Hankins, Ayers, Beason, McClain, Kennard & Cullen. Would definitely like to be more unpredictable. Imagine JPP and DaMontre rushing the QBs blindside together. Could be very nice a couple of series a game.
Well played, my friend ;)
Wilfork on Pepper Johnson - ( New Window )
Wilfork "Pepper should be the DC" - ( New Window )
I'd love for the Giants to get a "leg up" on other teams with open defensive coaching positions and get our pick of the available position coaches.
I know a lot of people want Spags and I would like him back also, but the Saints were one of the worst defenses in history with Spags as DC. The Ravens secondary was ranked 24th this past year. If his name wasn't Spagnuolo would anybody want him? His team, defense or position that he was coaching hasn't been successful since 2008.
I would like Spags for nostalgia purposes as that's the last time we've had a great D, but it was over 6 years ago. He really hasn't been successful since then. His D gave up by far the most yards of all time in a season.
Quote:
@JordanRaanan: Big question with Pepper Johnson is why did he never get the chance to be DC under Belichick? Why did BB not think he could do it? #giants
A question I and many others have asked ad nauseum through the years
Remember Ray Handley? He was likely only our coach because George Young didn't think Belichick could handle the top spot.
Young was a brilliant football mind, the architect of a blistering defense that brought home two titles, but he wasn't infallible. Neither is Belichick.
PJ could have been passed over in error. I wouldn't bet on Belichick being wrong, but I wouldn't let it cloud my judgement, I'd hear the guy out first.
Brady only had Huf for one year, and then as a QB coach. He might have been great at that.
He got in over his head and had a melt down as OC with the Giants. Shit happens.
He's done okay in Canada. Different time, different place, different rules.
I have to admit, even if you ignore Pepper's former status as a Giant, he's a pretty attractive possibility for a shot as a DC based on his resume.
Pepper might be a good guy to have to try and improve our front 7 talent/play.
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I only brought up Huf because usually player endorsements don't mean all that much imo..Doesn't mean that Wilfork isn't spot on in this case
Brady only had Huf for one year, and then as a QB coach. He might have been great at that.
He got in over his head and had a melt down as OC with the Giants. Shit happens.
He's done okay in Canada. Different time, different place, different rules.
Expanding on that, can we also say the same about Pepper? Good/great in an assistant's role, but might possibly be over his head as a DC? Perhaps Belichick thought so? Inquiring minds and all that
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In comment 12085825 GMANinDC said:
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There is no Rooney Rule for assistant coaches.
You missed the sarcasm, I think
Indeed I did - guess my detector is broken this morning...
Secondly, with 5 other teams needing new head coaches, wouldn't you want to catch on to another team where you know you can have at least 3 years trying to rehabilitate yourself?
Spags was an assistant for the Eagles for 7 years with a resume worst then Pepper. Nobody gave him a shot for a while. We finally did and it worked out great. Happens every year I'm the NFL.
Dan Quinn was a position coach in the NFL for 12 years before he finally got his shot and that worked out pretty well. There are plenty of position coaches that have rose through the ranks faster then Pepper or Quinn and haven't been successful. Just because he hasn't got a shot after so many years doesn't mean he won't be a great DC.
I definitely wouldn't mind having a guy who played for Parcells & Belichick. Coached with Little Bill and Jim Schwartz. Two HOF coaches and a very good DC.
I'm starting to wonder if he's waiting to take over as the Ravens DC.
Pees is 65 and will be 66 at the start of next year.
BB is by no means infallible when it comes to picking assistant coaches. He tends to look for coordinators that reflect his personality and background as well. Mangini, Matt Patricia (who actually has an engineering background), Dean Pees, Josh McDaniels....none played in the NFL...all started out coaching basically right after graduating college.There is a definite pattern in these coordinators that match up to BB's history.
And while BB is a huge success, there is no data to support that coaches with his background are better than former NFL players. There are multiple methods, personalities, and backgrounds, which have all been successful.
Didn't he pick Perry Fewell?
spags - ( New Window )
Fresh ideas and a fresh voice are needed. He is also an emotional guy who is willing to say things when needed.
It can only get better
One of the reasons we had such problems in the 60's and 70's was Welly's penchant for hiring former players.
One of the reasons we had such problems in the 60's and 70's was Welly's penchant for hiring former players.
Gene, even though I'm far from a strong proponent of a Pepper hiring, at least he's had seasoning once his playing days were over..Hiring Webster not too long after he retired to be his HC, or Robustelli to be GM(a disaster) not too long after retirement differs I believe with the Pepper situation..Tunnell and Rosy Brown were good positional hirings imo..
Players often connect with coaches and root for them when opportunities arise.
Pepper is another hat in the ring. There are and will be other options.
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TC will pick the right man and it could be Pepper.
Didn't he pick Perry Fewell?
Didn't we win a Super Bowl with Perry Fewell?
I only think it could be a bigger deal than that because this could be TC's last season. :(
Pun intended?
I believe if Pepper blows him away as McAdoo did with his knowledge of all things situational, he'll get strong consideration to be DC..He will NOT get the DC job because of his infectious enthusiasm, imo..Not with TC anyway
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Gene, even though I'm far from a strong proponent of a Pepper hiring, at least he's had seasoning once his playing days were over
Pun intended?
Lol, no..But not bad..:)
I don't know if he got an interview, but I know he was discussed as a possibility in 2010 when the Giants wound up hiring Fewell.
Quote:
have we ever requested a Pepper interview before(to our knowledge, that is)? I don't recall if he was or not after Sheridan was let go
I don't know if he got an interview, but I know he was discussed as a possibility in 2010 when the Giants wound up hiring Fewell.
Yes, I remember Pepper being discussed a lot on here before the Fewell hiring..I'm wondering if the media reported anything about us reaching out to Pepper beside BBI discussing him?
Not as much as he is now.
from a time when we played a tough brand of ball.
studied under 'lil bill.
multiple schemes - love that part
beyond that I have zero idea about his coaching abilities, but this feels good
Why BB didn't promote him is a question, I guess, but I don't think it's a deal breaker.
BB is by no means infallible when it comes to picking assistant coaches. He tends to look for coordinators that reflect his personality and background as well. Mangini, Matt Patricia (who actually has an engineering background), Dean Pees, Josh McDaniels....none played in the NFL...all started out coaching basically right after graduating college.There is a definite pattern in these coordinators that match up to BB's history.
And while BB is a huge success, there is no data to support that coaches with his background are better than former NFL players. There are multiple methods, personalities, and backgrounds, which have all been successful.
very good post
His top assistants when they were winning super bowls turned out to be bad head coaches.
Sometimes he gets them right, sometimes he doesn't.
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There is no Rooney Rule for assistant coaches.
Quote:
@JordanRaanan: Big question with Pepper Johnson is why did he never get the chance to be DC under Belichick? Why did BB not think he could do it? #giants
A question I and many others have asked ad nauseum through the years
Quote:
I thought we already hired Raheem?
We only interviewed him because he's black. NOW we're interviewing candidates for the real rea--hey, wait...
Just look at our very own team. Spags had no experience and he was a great DC for us. Fewell had experience and he was terrible for us.
Same here.. I loved pepper as a player but who knows what this guy can bring as DC.
This is a huge hire for this franchise. If they get it right odds are this entire regime stays intact for another 2-3 years and it's all systems full ahead. If they get this wrong........
Pepper might get the job, but he'd have to blow them away during the interview process.