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Jacquian Williams

Dragon : 1/12/2015 10:06 am
Is Williams someone this team needs for the future or is he not worthy of bringing back next year?

I'm a fan of Williams but I must admit much like this team he seems just a step to late always. Is he really as bad as many seem to think he is? I will call him a WLB just seems like the position he plays to me. He is "6-3, 220-235 pounds unknown, has 4.53+ speed does not play like it truthfully, will be 27 in July, this was his first year as a full time starter. He started 9 games with 78 combine tackles (55 TKL, 23 AST,), 3 pass defensed very low number for how he was used in our defense and zero sacks. I think he may have missed 3 sure sacks if not more during the season. Missed the final seven games due to concussion symptoms which needs to be considered for his future.

He is an UFA but can we really afford to not show any interest in resigning him? If he could have remained on the field then he would have most likely finished with over 105 tackles. That number would have put him in the top 10 outside linebackers in the NFL. His PDEF number of a possible 5+ would also not be as bad when compared to most OLB's in the NFL. The major consideration for me with him is this was his first year as a fulltime starter. On a defense which could not usually get to the QB consistently and is there anybody who is really going to replace him presently on our roster. Even if we go out and sign someone they will more than likely be in the same age bracket with no experience as a Giant WLB.

His Lack of COD prevented him from covering TE's quite often  
Giants2012 : 1/12/2015 10:09 am : link
and that's not good considering he's a light linebacker.

Not sure what to think of him. Not very big, not great at POA and now got exposed in coverage b/c his COD wasn't great.
^^^ +1  
JonC : 1/12/2015 10:11 am : link
Very ordinary run and chase player, avoids contact, makes many tackles by drag down from behind.
RE: His Lack of COD prevented him from covering TE's quite often  
Hades07 : 1/12/2015 10:12 am : link
In comment 12090934 Giants2012 said:
Quote:
and that's not good considering he's a light linebacker.

Not sure what to think of him. Not very big, not great at POA and now got exposed in coverage b/c his COD wasn't great.
well with that analysis, the only thing you can think is he is terrible.
I would like to see what he does under a new DC  
Jay on the Island : 1/12/2015 10:12 am : link
The Giants have a lot of holes and assuming they don't bring back Paysinger and Herzlich and probably McClain then they only have Beason, Kennard, and Victor Butler on the roster. They would have to sign or draft 3-4 LB's so I would love to see Williams back at or near the vet minimum.
Hades07  
Giants2012 : 1/12/2015 10:13 am : link
I'm hoping the coaches see something different and he's better.
He's expendable to say the least  
NYGmen58 : 1/12/2015 10:14 am : link
.
has ability....  
BillKo : 1/12/2015 10:16 am : link
but it's never been realized.

Time to start over for him and the Giants.
Playoffs  
Dragon : 1/12/2015 10:17 am : link
I watched all the games so far except Denver and Indy I was just tired and so happy Cowgirls were home for the big dance. However I saw all these games and in all of them the passing games exposed the OLB's consistently. So is this guy really as bad as we think or is he just like all the other LB's and safeties being taken to the shed by TE's and HB's out the backfield?
I thought he played as well as you could expect  
armsteadeatslittlekids : 1/12/2015 10:21 am : link
of a sixth round draft pick who is forced to play significant snaps because there is no one better. Speaks to the quality of linebackers we've had over the years.
With a new DC coming in  
j_rud : 1/12/2015 10:23 am : link
I wouldn't be surprised or mind in the least if they gutted the position except for Kennard. Can you make a compelling case for anyone else?

Who knows what the new DC will do but I'd love to see Kennard in the middle with a completely new supporting cast.
I expect that management thought he would progress more  
Giants61 : 1/12/2015 10:27 am : link
but as with many lower draft picks on both sides of the ball, they never amounted to much. The Giants have to get better at the LB position and Kennard gives me hope.
Yeah  
Johnny5 : 1/12/2015 10:32 am : link
I'm not a fan.
He flashes at times but  
Rick in Dallas : 1/12/2015 10:39 am : link
is so freaking inconsistent in all phases....

2 free agent OLB's the Giants should consider are Bruce Carter and Justin Durant of the Cowboys.
He's never really flashed in a game, tho  
JonC : 1/12/2015 10:43 am : link
Pre-season, maybe.
He's a special teamer and backup LB at best.  
Victor in CT : 1/12/2015 10:55 am : link
If he is still starting they have not improved
If there was an aspect of his game that was strong,  
Doomster : 1/12/2015 10:56 am : link
then maybe as a backup.....

Problem is, he couldn't cover anyone, even though we heard announcers say, time and again, he is the Giant's best coverage linebacker....they must have been reading a script and knew nothing about the guy...

So, if you can't cover, you better be good against the run....sad to say but Herz is better than him against the run, and that is not saying much....he reminds me of Boley....it's like he tries to avoid the initial contact, and then make the tackle downfield....never saw this guy attack a runner or receiver....he would wait for the guy to come to him....with momentum....is it any wonder that after initial contact, the runner would get extra yardage....

He showed promise, his rookie year...then there were injuries.....he just doesn't make plays.....time to move on, if other linebackers are available out there.....A DC coming here looking at him, Paysinger, Herz, a slow McClain, oft injured Beason, and a rookie in the rough, Kennard, or the safety situation, or the DL situation(right now, we have Hankins, that's it), may think twice....
What level of offer will produce a compensatory draft pick?  
njm : 1/12/2015 11:22 am : link
He hasn't progressed as much after his rookie year as I had hoped but I'm not ready to write him off just yet. I'd offer him what a reserve LB makes, and if someone offers more I'll take the compensatory pick.
He has not really improved since his rookie year  
Some Fan : 1/12/2015 11:23 am : link
I had hopes for him bing an impact player but he is mediocre. We need to improve so he is likely gone.
in 2011...  
Damon : 1/12/2015 11:24 am : link
His coverage was exceptional. He was good on specials. The arrow was pointing up... He regressed...either due to injury... or whatever. When Beason came on last year he started to seem to "get it" again although he seemed to get beat over the top by TEs. I don't think he's as fast as he used to be and the athleticism that made him flash early in his career just isn't what it used to be.
He's not a good player....  
damdevs : 1/12/2015 11:30 am : link
if you want to keep him as a cheap backup and special teams player then fine.

But the problem is that this guy just lacks football instinct. We drafted a guy who fit our athletic profile as a LB, but his lack of football instincts and savvy is what really hurts him as a player.

If I'm not mistaken he played one season at USF and his lack of experience really hurts him.

Robbieballs2003 had a post yesterday that hit the nail right on the head when he pointed out our philosophy when it comes to scouting and draft LBers....Williams, IMO, is exactly what he was talking about.
Chase and drag  
Semipro Lineman : 1/12/2015 11:32 am : link
type of player, tight hips, doesn't dis-engage from oline, etc...

The above are prime examples of words used by posters on BBI when they are merely repeating the meaningless phrases developed by the wordsmiths on BBI who were talking out of their asses when they threw them up on the message board. Overly dramatic analysis of situational players seems to be a BBI speciality.

P.S. Jacquian Williams isn't going to be a thumper and hasn't developed into an impact player with unique skillsets but he has demonstrated that he can be an asset to the defense and a solid part of a linebacker rotation. I wouldn't overpay to retain him but also wouldn't discard him without a better replacement in hand
Let him go  
jeff57 : 1/12/2015 11:35 am : link
Seen enough
Basically agree with semipro and Jay on the island  
SLIM : 1/12/2015 11:45 am : link
The guy has some skills and has been in a bad scheme. Our new DC's will hopefully put his players in a position to make plays and not react. A react scheme without good football instincts (Williams shows that he doesn't have good instincts) is a bad combination. Provided he is healthy, I think he comes back cheaply and should be given a chance to compete for a role on the team (niche role/special teamer with maybe a chance to start).
Williams  
stretch234 : 1/12/2015 11:56 am : link
There have been 8 playoff games thus far - which game has featured LB covering the TE effectively.

Contrary to popular belief, the Giants are not the only team who has trouble covering TE's. It is a league wide issue

Williams  
Dragon : 1/12/2015 12:11 pm : link
So it seems for the most part that many would not etain him that's fine. However is there someone out there that is really going to make his leaving look like a great move and what will it cost us in FA or the draft? I can't think of the last LB we had that can cover and from watching the games this year I have not seen one very good coverage OLB.
Semi  
JonC : 1/12/2015 12:29 pm : link
I take issue with your post. While no expert, I know enough and played the game enough to describe what I consistently see from the player.

Until I see him, and others, under...  
BMac : 1/12/2015 12:40 pm : link
...a new DC with a different system, I'd not feel comfortable making any final judgements. I've seen many players flounder in one system and flourish in another.
A number of reasonable opinions in this thread  
JonC : 1/12/2015 12:40 pm : link
including stating he's probably a depth/rotational player.
BMac  
JonC : 1/12/2015 12:42 pm : link
Fair enough. His warts, to my eye, are fundamental and not what a team needs from an OLB. Only time will tell.

RE: BMac  
BMac : 1/12/2015 12:47 pm : link
In comment 12091555 JonC said:
Quote:
Fair enough. His warts, to my eye, are fundamental and not what a team needs from an OLB. Only time will tell.


I don't doubt that you know a hell of a lot more about it than I do. I'm kind of looking forward to what some of the supposed "flawed" players do in a simpler, attack-oriented scheme (Moore, in particular).

Even if Williams is only a situational type, he could be put to good use until someone better comes along. Realistically, I hardly expect the Giants to suddenly become Linebacker focused and go on a spending spree for the position.
JW  
alligatorpie : 1/12/2015 12:48 pm : link
-6th rounder

-same size as Cooper Taylor, a safety

what is the value of a 230lb LB if (and I mean if, we dont know) a 230lb safety is better in coverage, zone etc?

I prefer big defensive ends, defensive tackles, and players that can do great zone and/or man cover. If you have LBs at all, let them be genius instinctive MIKE types that can thump as well, smash a gap with authority, move.

as I have ranted for years.

Williams?  
Marty866b : 1/12/2015 12:50 pm : link
Not physical and can't cover. What exactly does he do well to be on the team? Specials? I know he made the big play on specials three years ago. Thanks for that but I would move on from him.
Happy to keep him on a vet-min qualifying deal.  
Big Blue Blogger : 1/12/2015 12:52 pm : link
If they give him much more than that, it suggests the new DC and/or LB coach sees something useful on film.

In the context of a defense that hasn't played well against a good offense in more than two years, it's hard to judge individual players - or coaches, for that matter. I doubt Williams is the biggest problem. (He hasn't been the solution, either.) If we're damning him for not being able to cover Jason Witten, a lot of OLBs deserve to lose the jobs.
RE: Williams  
TJ : 1/12/2015 12:54 pm : link
In comment 12091366 stretch234 said:
Quote:
There have been 8 playoff games thus far - which game has featured LB covering the TE effectively.

Contrary to popular belief, the Giants are not the only team who has trouble covering TE's. It is a league wide issue

Good point. I remember the Ravens had Will Hill covering Gronk. Hill was getting beat too but the ravens must have thought Hill would do better than one of their LBs.
RE: RE: BMac  
JonC : 1/12/2015 12:56 pm : link
In comment 12091570 BMac said:
Quote:
In comment 12091555 JonC said:


Quote:


Fair enough. His warts, to my eye, are fundamental and not what a team needs from an OLB. Only time will tell.




I don't doubt that you know a hell of a lot more about it than I do. I'm kind of looking forward to what some of the supposed "flawed" players do in a simpler, attack-oriented scheme (Moore, in particular).

Even if Williams is only a situational type, he could be put to good use until someone better comes along. Realistically, I hardly expect the Giants to suddenly become Linebacker focused and go on a spending spree for the position.


If they were able to sign a promising MIKE, e.g. a healthy player at Beason's ability level, it would go a long way in restoring performance from the unit. I've heard they're going to be bolstering the Safety position this offseason, let's find a MIKE as well. If we're sticking with the 4-3, as expected, we figure to deploy a lot of big nickel looks. A smart, instinctive MIKE who can run is vital.


Williams strikes me as somebody  
an_idol_mind : 1/12/2015 12:57 pm : link
who can benefit a great deal from a new coach.
JonC  
Semipro Lineman : 1/12/2015 1:03 pm : link
I attempted to be careful in my wording to make sure I wasn't saying you and the others didn't have a valid opinion to describing the phrase "chase and drag player" as meaningless.

It is meaningless as a discription because that's a freaking tackle which is his job. Make enough "chase and drag" plays near or behind the line of scrimage and you're an all-pro. In my opinion, rookie LB Bortland of the 49ers is a "chase and drag" player who has good "read and react" instints. Bortland isn't very good at "getting off of the block" when an Olineman catches him but he "flows to the ball" in an "attacking way" full of energy
Etc...
Id resign him  
spike : 1/12/2015 1:06 pm : link
on a cheap contract..

we dont have enough speedy linebackers. ..
Semi  
JonC : 1/12/2015 1:07 pm : link
Appreciated. On Borland, he's very instinctive and more physical at the POA. I suspect his bad shoulders have a lot to do with his tackling habits. He's also a more traditional LB, whereas JW is more like a SS trying to play WILL without engaging blockers, or squaring up ballcarriers, etc. I get what you're driving at, I just haven't seen anything from JW that indicates something other than backup to this point, imv.
RE: RE: RE: BMac  
BMac : 1/12/2015 1:17 pm : link
In comment 12091614 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 12091570 BMac said:


Quote:


In comment 12091555 JonC said:


Quote:


Fair enough. His warts, to my eye, are fundamental and not what a team needs from an OLB. Only time will tell.




I don't doubt that you know a hell of a lot more about it than I do. I'm kind of looking forward to what some of the supposed "flawed" players do in a simpler, attack-oriented scheme (Moore, in particular).

Even if Williams is only a situational type, he could be put to good use until someone better comes along. Realistically, I hardly expect the Giants to suddenly become Linebacker focused and go on a spending spree for the position.



If they were able to sign a promising MIKE, e.g. a healthy player at Beason's ability level, it would go a long way in restoring performance from the unit. I've heard they're going to be bolstering the Safety position this offseason, let's find a MIKE as well. If we're sticking with the 4-3, as expected, we figure to deploy a lot of big nickel looks. A smart, instinctive MIKE who can run is vital.



JonC: Agree completely. I suspect that Williams may not be the sharpest pencil in the box. If that's true, he (and any other LBs) would greatly benefit from having a guy who can help direct his efforts and also kick him in the ass for screwing up.

Also, not to sound too much like a broken record, but it occurs to me that if he is a bit on the dim side, an attack scheme rather than read/react may take some of the pressure off him.
Why are we talking about a backup LB?  
Jupiter : 1/12/2015 3:04 pm : link
If Beason was a healthy LB and Taylor was a healthy safety, Willams probably would have only played special teams.

Offer the minimum and see if someone else is more interested.
Jupiter: I don't think that's the case.  
Big Blue Blogger : 1/12/2015 4:18 pm : link
IIRC, Williams was penciled in at one OLB spot opposite McClain, with Beason in the middle. The guys who saw their snaps increase dramatically because of Beason's injury were Herzlich and McClain (who would have started regardless, but probably wouldn't have played in the nickel package if Beason had been healthy).
Before writing the kid off,  
Big Blue '56 : 1/12/2015 4:49 pm : link
I'd like to see how he responds/performs under the aegis of our new DC
I genuinely  
SethFromAstoria : 1/12/2015 4:57 pm : link
think WIlliams is awful. He is noticeably awful in 9 out of 10 games. He's slow sideline to sideline and slow at getting into plays or where the ball is headed. I think he's one of the worst starting players in the league.
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