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Are BBIers less sophisticated when discussing defense?

Dan in the Springs : 1/13/2015 3:16 pm
Interestingly as I watch the discussions regarding defensive coordinators unfold online, I see the following sorts of analysis:

1. Defensive ranking. Typically yards and not points.
2. Personnel. Typically 3-4 vs. 4-3.

I don't really see a lot of other discussion. Occasionally I see a post about avoiding the tampa 2, or references to being "an attacking" defense, defended very rarely by blitzes being thrown. I don't see a lot of discussion about the defensive strategies used and why.

For example - lots of praise for Spags being "aggressive" as a coordinator. Not lots of discussion about the types and/or percent of times a certain defense is used.

I know this information is available - we could find out the percent of time a DC candidate uses zone vs. man and what types in coverage. We could discuss how frequently a run blitz is utilized. We could even discuss how frequently a zone blitz is used.

It seemed to me that last year we had lots more discussions about offensive passing concepts and what systems the offenses came from (not simply by personnel). Discussion included how often they use tight ends, for example.

I don't see those discussions this year on the defensive side of the ball. I think it's because identifying that information is more work than most BBIers want to make. Am I correct?
Most fans don't actually know the X's and O's  
JonC : 1/13/2015 3:20 pm : link
unless they've played organized football, which is probably a smallish percentage of the forum.
I'd argue most bbiers are less than sophisticated  
GMenLTS : 1/13/2015 3:27 pm : link
when discussing most things related to the intricacies of football despite shouting they know best the loudest.

Cue radar.....



In seriousness though, there's literally only a handful of people here who actually could diagnose exactly what a defense (or offense) is doing from a technical standpoint.

Then there's a decent amount who watch the game carefully and come to reasonable conclusions about what a defense (or offense) is doing, but they lack the technical knowledge to describe all of what they are seeing in real football terms. They can describe it in some football terms but on the whole, they're missing the required knowledge that coaches and players are used to. I'd put myself in this category.

Then you have the group mentioned first in my post. Unfortunately, that's a large, large loud portion of BBI.
and you could be an expert on X's & O's  
Motley Blue : 1/13/2015 3:27 pm : link
but defense is still the reactionary half of football. It really is hard to view in it's full context without watching it against an offense at work...then you get into match ups & assignments and so on.
"aggressive good, zone bad"  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/13/2015 3:29 pm : link
"aggressive = rings"
I definitely know next to nothing  
Go Terps : 1/13/2015 3:30 pm : link
I suppose I can pick out patterns, but if I had to teach the nuts and bolts id be lost.
Basic Xs and Os have been around forever..  
Big Blue '56 : 1/13/2015 3:33 pm : link
What people grew up with or played with 15-20 years ago is not all that relative beyond the basics..Lyle, I'm in your category I would think..

I think Dorgan, Anish and a select few beyond them have kept up with today's Xs and Os, imo..At least as it appears evident by their posts
Everything  
Josh in the City : 1/13/2015 3:37 pm : link
I know about defense, I know from years of playing Madden football. And in all honesty, I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
offense tends to be more universal across the league  
Motley Blue : 1/13/2015 3:37 pm : link
everybody is asked to do the same things. The only things that really change are dependent on the QB's arm & the WR's ability to get behind the defense. Just about everything in between an offensive player will need to be able to do for any coordinator in the league.

RE: Everything  
arcarsenal : 1/13/2015 3:45 pm : link
In comment 12094776 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
I know about defense, I know from years of playing Madden football. And in all honesty, I don't think there's anything wrong with that.


LOL.. of course you don't.

And this explains why you think aggressive defense is all that matters. Because it works in Madden.
I really hope josh is being facetious  
GMenLTS : 1/13/2015 3:46 pm : link
.
.  
arcarsenal : 1/13/2015 3:46 pm : link
He's not. I've wasted enough time arguing with him to know that.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 1/13/2015 3:49 pm : link
I don't think people understand offense here either. People don't know what the fuck a shotgun draw is. People act as if only one route is called (WHY DOES GILBRIDE CALL LONG PASSES ON THIRD AND TWO?).

Football's a hard sport to understand. Harder when you go for a quick explanation rather than true understanding.
LOL  
Josh in the City : 1/13/2015 3:49 pm : link
yes, it was a joke. But that being said, it is how I learned some of the differences b/w schemes and formations (ie: 4-3, 3-4, 46, cover 2, cover 3, etc). Also did show concepts of different blitz schemes and zone reads. It did instill a basic knowledge to expand upon that I probably wouldn't have had from just watching a television broadcast with no prior understanding.
RE: ....  
GMenLTS : 1/13/2015 3:55 pm : link
In comment 12094807 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
I don't think people understand offense here either. People don't know what the fuck a shotgun draw is. People act as if only one route is called (WHY DOES GILBRIDE CALL LONG PASSES ON THIRD AND TWO?).

Football's a hard sport to understand. Harder when you go for a quick explanation rather than true understanding.


Two of my favorites haha.

And lolJosh, you really don't think those madden formations helped you understand the game better, do you? Because holy shit.
I find people are quite opinionated here though...  
Dan in the Springs : 1/13/2015 3:55 pm : link
and use a lot of definitives. I have learned a lot from many posters here about the game, but for some reason it is really tough to get discussion going about defensive philosophies and/or strategies.

I don't really see the same on the offensive side. It seems people know a lot more about offensive strategy than defensive strategy, or at least they feel more comfortable discussing it.

I'd really like it if those who understand better the different mindset of these candidates would weigh in on some questions I have.

For example - why would Jim Schwartz be ignored as a potential candidate? Some have stated the Buddy Ryan coaching tree and I'm okay with that answer, but I'm curious if there's more to it. Is there something else there?

I see that Buffalo was penalized more in the secondary than most other teams. They were among the league leaders in PI and Def. Holding calls. The Giants under Coughlin have tended to have very few calls of that type. Is that due to the way the players are coached? Is that a reason why Coughlin wouldn't be interested in Schwartz?

I've done a lot of work analyzing these trends to determine the correlation and I'm at the point that I'm wondering about causation and whether the mindset that Coughlin has could immediately rule out certain defenses that we as a forum like. It would be nice to see a discussion about the type of defense that Coughlin is into.

One thing I think is that he values mistake-free ball - comes from the philosophy that every defensive penalty increases the likelihood that the offense scores on that drive. The other school of thought is that if you foul continually they cannot call them all and eventually just accept that you are playing a more aggressive style of defense.

Is it realistic to think that the Giants could ever become aggressive under Coughlin like the Bills, Seahawks, or Cardinals have become?
No  
Josh in the City : 1/13/2015 3:56 pm : link
read what I wrote.
RE: No  
GMenLTS : 1/13/2015 3:59 pm : link
In comment 12094832 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
read what I wrote.


I did. I think we differ on our definitions of basic knowledge in this case
Okay  
Josh in the City : 1/13/2015 3:59 pm : link
so what do you consider basic knowledge?
I don't know much....  
kinard : 1/13/2015 4:02 pm : link
... but I know when to get rid of the defensive coordinator.

Same with the special teams coach.

The eyes don't lie.
Quite honestly  
BlackLight : 1/13/2015 4:03 pm : link
I get the feeling that 90+% of football fans don't really understand the Xs and Os aspect of it - myself included.

I've been watching the Giants for 25 years, not as long as some, I realize, but I really haven't a clue at what I'm looking at when I see game film.
The thread asks about discussing defense  
jcn56 : 1/13/2015 4:04 pm : link
but are the discussions any different about offense?

I think most casual fans don't know anything more than the basic positions on both units and what their basic responsibilities are. What happens from there usually requires a bit of imagination or some information gathered from other sources and typically greatly misused.
For those interested find Pat Kirwan's  
LauderdaleMatty : 1/13/2015 4:07 pm : link
Book. Take your Eye off the Ball I am by no means any type of expert as some of the guys who have played or coached but Kirwan and Miller on Moving the Chains get into a lot about X's and O's. Personel groupings on both sides of the ball

RE: RE: No  
Josh in the City : 1/13/2015 4:08 pm : link
In comment 12094845 GMenLTS said:
Quote:
In comment 12094832 Josh in the City said:


Quote:


read what I wrote.



I did. I think we differ on our definitions of basic knowledge in this case


To think that Madden doesn't teach you anything about football is just foolish. If you've never played the game then I would understand scoffing at such a concept. But you'd be wrong...
Playing Madden Makes You Smarter...About Football - ( New Window )
I am not even close to an expert...  
Kevin999 : 1/13/2015 4:11 pm : link
but I think the answer to the main question is the "eye test."
If the offense runs on 3rd and 2 and fails, its easier to see the guard miss a block etc and know why it failed. But when receivers are running mad in the Giants secondary, is it because the CB missed an assignment? or was the safety supposed to come over and help. Was it a bad cal, or poor execution? etc. It just seems easier to place blame on a failed offensive play than on a failed defensive play.
well for starters id consider 4-3 and 3-4 to be well known  
GMenLTS : 1/13/2015 4:14 pm : link
Terms if you have watched the watch the game, I sure as shit hope you didn't need madden to clarify the differences there for you. Over/under fronts are different bag and I don't think madden really does much for your basic knowledge there.

Cover 2 and 3 in madden might tell you basic ideas of what those coverages might entail but the real basic knowledge that actual players need to be aware of in those coverages is way more intricate when matchups, personnel groupings, and zone responsibilities come into play.

Blitz schemes, again, you can glean the basic idea of a fire zone or corner blitz, or whatever but it's still missing the mark of what a player actually has to read and react to out on the field, especially when dealing with realities like not actually knowing if it's a run or pass post-snap, QB and defensive adjustments.

You're really not gaining basic knowledge of these concepts and responsibilities from madden.

If you think you are and or have in the past, we have nothing else to discuss.
RE: RE: RE: No  
GMenLTS : 1/13/2015 4:15 pm : link
In comment 12094880 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
In comment 12094845 GMenLTS said:


Quote:


In comment 12094832 Josh in the City said:


Quote:


read what I wrote.



I did. I think we differ on our definitions of basic knowledge in this case



To think that Madden doesn't teach you anything about football is just foolish. If you've never played the game then I would understand scoffing at such a concept. But you'd be wrong... Playing Madden Makes You Smarter...About Football - ( New Window )


Oh. Well fuck me. My apologies for wasting our time....
Kevin good point  
JoefromPa : 1/13/2015 4:18 pm : link
most of the people on here make judgments based on the "eye" test.

I know little about coaching football.........but I know that the Giants, for the most part, have not played good defense under Fewell.

I might not know why, and I don't know how to fix it, but I can make a valid determination that it wasn't very good and hope for change at that coaching position.
Madden is actually very good  
Mighty : 1/13/2015 4:20 pm : link
at teaching some of the basic concepts. I've used it with much success in teaching my Peewee teams and helping even older kids. Its good for teaching the differences in personell like 4-3,3-4,Nickel, Dime etc and concepts like over/under. Also good to show the differences in Cover 1/2/3/4/6 zones and what the responsibilities of each position is.

for the advanced stuff it can be helpfull as long as you understand the limitations.
RE: well for starters id consider 4-3 and 3-4 to be well known  
BeerFridge : 1/13/2015 4:23 pm : link
In comment 12094906 GMenLTS said:
Quote:
Terms if you have watched the watch the game, I sure as shit hope you didn't need madden to clarify the differences there for you. Over/under fronts are different bag and I don't think madden really does much for your basic knowledge there.

Cover 2 and 3 in madden might tell you basic ideas of what those coverages might entail but the real basic knowledge that actual players need to be aware of in those coverages is way more intricate when matchups, personnel groupings, and zone responsibilities come into play.

Blitz schemes, again, you can glean the basic idea of a fire zone or corner blitz, or whatever but it's still missing the mark of what a player actually has to read and react to out on the field, especially when dealing with realities like not actually knowing if it's a run or pass post-snap, QB and defensive adjustments.

You're really not gaining basic knowledge of these concepts and responsibilities from madden.

If you think you are and or have in the past, we have nothing else to discuss.


This is a bit of a douchey post. I've played organized football and Madden and there's definitely stuff one can learn from Madden.
RE: well for starters id consider 4-3 and 3-4 to be well known  
Josh in the City : 1/13/2015 4:24 pm : link
In comment 12094906 GMenLTS said:
Quote:
Terms if you have watched the watch the game, I sure as shit hope you didn't need madden to clarify the differences there for you. Over/under fronts are different bag and I don't think madden really does much for your basic knowledge there.

Cover 2 and 3 in madden might tell you basic ideas of what those coverages might entail but the real basic knowledge that actual players need to be aware of in those coverages is way more intricate when matchups, personnel groupings, and zone responsibilities come into play.

Blitz schemes, again, you can glean the basic idea of a fire zone or corner blitz, or whatever but it's still missing the mark of what a player actually has to read and react to out on the field, especially when dealing with realities like not actually knowing if it's a run or pass post-snap, QB and defensive adjustments.

You're really not gaining basic knowledge of these concepts and responsibilities from madden.

If you think you are and or have in the past, we have nothing else to discuss.


LOL you basically just agreed with me that it provides the foundation to grow your knowledge-base from. You're now arguing with yourself as you already proved my point.
here  
alligatorpie : 1/13/2015 4:25 pm : link
RE: For those interested find Pat Kirwan's  
Big Blue '56 : 1/13/2015 4:27 pm : link
In comment 12094875 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
Book. Take your Eye off the Ball I am by no means any type of expert as some of the guys who have played or coached but Kirwan and Miller on Moving the Chains get into a lot about X's and O's. Personel groupings on both sides of the ball


A Superb read. Learned a lot..Helped me discern things when I watched the NFL Rewind Coaches tape
I like to think about trends  
alligatorpie : 1/13/2015 4:30 pm : link
1. Increase in size and athleticism of average Offensive Tackles Since 1982

2. Increased average TECHNIQUE + size + athleticism of a starting NFL O line as opposed to that of one of 299 or what have you college teams.

3. Effect of this on the DE position.

4. The idea of playing a DT at the zero at times, who what how.

5. increased use of -multiple types- of defensive alignments at the DL in the NFL
exmple Hank  
alligatorpie : 1/13/2015 4:33 pm : link
people here thought he was just a plugging two gaps guy, due to weight.

silly I said, let him jump gaps at times, he has the aa.

ditto "a player is too large to play DE"

what? too large? that is just silly.
I guess I'm countering douche with douche  
GMenLTS : 1/13/2015 4:35 pm : link
Josh is one of those that Brett referenced who would complain about a shotgun draw that wasn't actually a draw and even could prove how he knew our playcalls every time with KG at the helm.

The responsibilities and knowledge actually required to diagnose what happened in a play have so many different factors that even players and coaches are doing a lot of guesswork themselves when watching film.

In the end, I shouldn't have engaged. The best advice in this thread is picking up kirwan's book.

RE: I guess I'm countering douche with douche  
Josh in the City : 1/13/2015 4:42 pm : link
In comment 12094967 GMenLTS said:
Quote:
Josh is one of those that Brett referenced who would complain about a shotgun draw that wasn't actually a draw and even could prove how he knew our playcalls every time with KG at the helm.

The responsibilities and knowledge actually required to diagnose what happened in a play have so many different factors that even players and coaches are doing a lot of guesswork themselves when watching film.

In the end, I shouldn't have engaged. The best advice in this thread is picking up kirwan's book.


Dude give it up. I'll throw in that I've also read Pat's book and agree that anyone who wants to understand more about the game should give it a read. And I know exactly what a shotgun draw and was also believed KG telegraphed his plays based on situation and formation so I'm not backing off that assessment of him. But using my comments from 2 years ago as another ridiculous reference to try and prove your inaccurate point is just more nonsense from you.
...  
GP : 1/13/2015 4:43 pm : link
My favorite BBI analysis (or lack thereof) is how anyone can blame anyone they'd like for a defense's poor performance (or give credit to anyone they'd like for a defense's good performance).

Ravens' secondary wasn't very good last year. BBI taught me that that was because of injuries. No wait it's because Spags sucks, no wait it's because the D coordinator sucks and he wasn't the D coordinator so it wasn't his fault.

Bills' D Line was really good. Great talent? Jim Schwartz? Pepper Johnson? Pick one, any one! ... and proceed to claim you know what the fuck you're talking about like you've actually done the research.

It's like statistics - you can make them say whatever the hell you want.
Should read:  
Josh in the City : 1/13/2015 4:44 pm : link
And I know exactly what a shotgun draw is and still believe that KG telegraphed his plays based on situation and formation so I'm not backing off that assessment of him.
This may be a good point  
bignygfan : 1/13/2015 4:44 pm : link
but as a former low-level high school coach I know that tactics and schemes get lots of attention but I will tell you what I always wanted -

Talent.

Granted I can't say I understand minute differences in NFL talent as compared to high schoolers where it's pretty obvious to see who the good athletes are but I know we won the most games when we had the best talent. It's pretty easy to complete a pass and run the ball when you have a powerful line and vice versa, if you have dominant defensive linemen you can easily disrupt any offense. Can't say I ever had good cornerbacks so don't know about defense on the back end as much.
replace tweener on solid front with true DE and put a FS where MK is  
alligatorpie : 1/13/2015 4:55 pm : link


lining up the mike in the middle, take will off field to accomodate extra FS (3 in all)


of course, there is no rule that the DTs cannot shift around in this
I always played D and have more familiarity with it than O.  
shepherdsam : 1/13/2015 5:02 pm : link
However, it can be really difficult to see exactly wtf is going on sometimes when watching on television. I wish they'd give us an all 22 with the Sunday ticket.
I worry when someone says 'the team plays a 4-3 under'  
alligatorpie : 1/13/2015 5:05 pm : link
to me, that would be like :


'we always run to the right' on O....

like, change it up man

RE: Should read:  
BrettNYG10 : 1/13/2015 5:06 pm : link
In comment 12094982 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
And I know exactly what a shotgun draw is and still believe that KG telegraphed his plays based on situation and formation so I'm not backing off that assessment of him.


Define what 'telegraphing the play is'. Run vs. pass? Given the down/distance, a decently informed fan could probably call run or pass correctly 70%+ time. But being able to call routes is impossible and a level of absurd arrogance.
classic bears 46  
alligatorpie : 1/13/2015 5:14 pm : link




now, replace left End with a DT and left S (stud lb) with a true DE..as well as one LB with a S and you can see one iteration or one line up of a 5-1-5.
LB with a safety that is  
alligatorpie : 1/13/2015 5:18 pm : link
.
so  
alligatorpie : 1/13/2015 5:21 pm : link
left capital E changes to T

small s left stays (ss)

capital S becomes DE

and W will becomes small s (fs)
If only the people properly qualified to post  
pjcas18 : 1/13/2015 5:30 pm : link
on any given discussion posted about that topic this would be a boring and barely active site.

It's obvious from reading posts who has more knowledge, who has opinion, and who is an idiot and the non-expert fans like myself consider when deciding how much credibility to give each post.

Plus and I am as guilty of this as anyone, it doesn't need an expert to have an opinion or to be right.

Most of the discussions on D are:
1. Re-sign JPP or not and a sub category about why JPP hasn't duplicated his 2011 breakout season
2. Sign Suh?
3. Who should the DC be?
4. Biggest draft needs
5. What FA's should the Giants target

most of those don't require someone know X's and O's to have an opinion, I don't often see discussions about formations or play calling other than generalities which anyone can pick up from playing Madden.

Interesting comments...  
Dan in the Springs : 1/13/2015 5:41 pm : link
I guess what I'm getting at is that there isn't a lot of discussion about the different defensive philosophies we might be acquiring with each of the candidates. What might we expect the differences to be between Spags and Pepper, for instance? All the discussion boils down to is this:

On Spags:
Pros - aggressive, won here before, knows Coughlin.
Cons - defenses statistically (yds/points) poor elsewhere, player complaints when he left.

On Pepper:
Pros - years under BB, worked with Schwartz, nostalgia, winner, fiery personality, familiar with 4/3 and 3/4.
Cons - no promotions for years with BB, no experience as DC.

Is that really all we can glean to discuss these candidates? Do we not have anyone on BBI capable of describing the differences they might bring in defensive philosophy?

I know we don't get a lot of knowledgable posters here on offense, but I guarantee you we had more insight into possible offensive strategy when considering what McAdoo might bring to the table than what we're seeing on the defensive side.
here is a gem from football defense .com  
alligatorpie : 1/13/2015 5:45 pm : link
''Positions are just names. The 5-2 Defense is very similar to the 3-4 Defense and the 5-3 Defense is almost the same as a 3-5-3 Defense.''

the 5 fronts were great against the run and are great at generating pass rush, but...I am pushing the 5-1 since todays pass game makes the extra safety a must

What is Pepper's philosophy?  
pjcas18 : 1/13/2015 5:48 pm : link
how does anyone know?

What we do know is he worked under Belichick for 13 or so years and Belichick switched from a 3 - 4 to a 4 - 3 at least once during that time. And Belichick will tell you that base D means little and he has said in interviews before that they might be in their base D for a handful of plays during a game.

So, Pepper has quite possibly learned (if he's learned) about formations, game-planning, in-game adjustments, and play calling from the greatest coaching mind of this generation and possibly any generation.

But as for Pepper's philosophy I don't see how even the most knowledgeable fan can know that unless he's dug for a Pepper Johnson interview if one even exists.

BB passed Pepper over multiple times and not for household names so that's a question Pepper needs to address in the interviews, but from what I've heard from Pats fan friends (no clue how credible) is that Belichick loves Pepper, but had different reasons for hiring Mangini, Pees, and Patricia.

Patricia was an aeronautical engineering expert or something that requires a ridiculous amount of analysis and intelligence and Belichick decided he was a better fit because of his scientific approach to defense than Pepper most recently. I can see that with Belichick.

so, in an old 5 fronts  
alligatorpie : 1/13/2015 5:53 pm : link
the DE's could go 'tween, and drop into zone against a pass.

in the 3 fronts, its the 'linebackers' who 'swing' from one 'position' to another essentially the same types of guys

since that has not worked here, I have been proposing that the safeties become the 'swing' players...moving from cover and zone into run support.

better to ask a safety to tackle a runner than asking a DE or LB to cover anyone ever.

aaaand...with 5 true - a dominating pass rush and run defense


wiiiith man cover corner play (allows the safeties to be free to move up if needed)
I read years ago that the stat most correlated with winning is:  
81_Great_Dane : 1/13/2015 5:57 pm : link
yards per pass attempt. Don't know whether that's still true, or whether it was ever true, but that stat is rarely mentioned on BBI.

If you follow the link below and sort by that stat for offenses, it's pretty interesting. Yup, pretty strongly correlated with winning. The Giants's offense was 12th in the league in that stat in 2014, up from 19th in 2013.

However if you flip that around and look at defense, the Giants were 29th in the league in yards allowed per pass attempt in 2014, WAY down from 2013, when the D was fourth in the NFL. (Those backup QBs helped, I'm sure.)

All of which does support what we seemed to be seeing. O was somewhat better, D was a lot worse.

I feel like I learn a lot from the Forum - but only if I'm selective about what I read and pay attention to.


NFL statistics - ( New Window )
while it has little to do with this thread  
Peter in Atlanta : 1/13/2015 6:28 pm : link
Dorgan is quietly sitting in a corner, beer in hand, chuckling to himself.
I probably dont know the X's and O's of football at all...  
SanFranGiantsFan : 1/13/2015 6:34 pm : link
I readily admit that. I'm a fan, not a coach. But I thought we needed a change at OC last season and I thought we needed a DC this season.
When i talk Defense, I have my pinky out while enjoying a nice tea  
montanagiant : 1/13/2015 7:30 pm : link
So no to your question
I love threads like this  
Sonic Youth : 1/13/2015 8:02 pm : link
This is the heart of BBI!
there are very few people on BBI  
B in ALB : 1/13/2015 8:09 pm : link
who know the x's and o's, technique, strategy, play calling, etc. I could probably count them on one hand. If you haven't coached, played extensively, or done both it's a difficult sport to learn intimately outside of what you see on the screen or from the stands.

That said, there are quite a few posters on bbi who know their stuff and it's really great to read and discuss.

That's why I love the sport so much. I've had the pleasure to play at a high level and coach some talented kids while installing some of my own stuff in the last few years. There are few things greater than putting in a package, prepping it for four days and watching it work on Saturdays and Sundays.
RE: What is Pepper's philosophy?  
Dan in the Springs : 1/13/2015 8:48 pm : link
In comment 12095121 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
how does anyone know?


I'm thinking that someone more familiar with the game would have some way of guessing.

Put it this way - how did anyone have any way of knowing what type of offense McAdoo might bring here? There were little dozens of articles written about it and posts all over BBI discussing the G.B. offense prior to his coming here.

Can we not do the same with defense? What would we expect differently from a defensive standpoint?
McAdoo  
pjcas18 : 1/13/2015 8:53 pm : link
spent the prior 7 years in the same offense. There were assumptions he'd bring that offense to the Giants.

Pepper has been in multiple defenses with New England and another new one this past year in Buffalo. Unless he's explicitly stated his defense philosophy (like I said before) I don't see how anyone can draw the same conclusions about Pepper they could about McAdoo.

Hey, Madden is how I learned offense  
Giantology : 1/13/2015 8:58 pm : link
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