Never has a positive thing to say about the Giants. Whether Spags is right for the job is debatable, but Graziano doesn't even have his facts straight. In 2008, Spags had no Strahan or Osi. And he got a lot out of no name guys like James Butler and Michael Johnson. But Graziano ignores those facts.
I have mixed feelings about this choice as well. Don't get me wrong I like Spags and he did well with the Giants, I just don't know if this was the right DC for the Giants right now.
I was really hoping for someone completely new with something completely fresh. It almost feels like this is another Coughlin signing, and it probably is.. Do the Giants really want to take a risk and gamble in the position they are in right now?? Can he have the same success he did back then with the players the Giants have right now? Is this short term? It just seems risky imo..
Never has a positive thing to say about the Giants. Whether Spags is right for the job is debatable, but Graziano doesn't even have his facts straight. In 2008, Spags had no Strahan or Osi. And he got a lot out of no name guys like James Butler and Michael Johnson. But Graziano ignores those facts.
He had Tuck in his prime and Cofield/Robbins inside and AP at MLB, so the run was not an issue. This team cannot stop the run, that is an enormous problem he will have to fix with not much to do it with. The other benefit this defense had was a hammer of a running game that could eat up clock and keep them fresh when need be and we don't have that either. His scheme was too complex to be picked up quickly, which is why we gave up 80 points in the first two weeks. Guess what? That was BEFORE the CBA put the clamps on practice time. You think this group, with fewer veteran leaders, no ability to stop the run and about 1/3 the time to practice and learn is going to suddenly get smart and stout against the run?
I'm happy Fewell is gone but I think this is a mistake. He's been disastrous everywhere else since which speaks to one truth; it was his players that made it go and he doesn't have any where near that here now. I am of the opinion that the Spags hire is to help keep JPP in the fold since he leans so heavily on Strahan and Osi as mentors.
I think he's obviously a bright coordinator, some of the things he devised to clamp down in the playoffs in 2007 were tactically impressive. His defense clobbered the best offense this league has ever seen points wise. The but remains though, he had Strahan, Osi, Tuck, Robbins, Cofield, Pierce to throw at people and make their lives miserable. Without that group he didn't fare so well in St. Louis or New Orleans and he was on a staff that got run off the field in Foxboro a few weeks ago with plenty of front 7 talent.
I'll trust TC on this, he did mention that it's not the same system he runs and he's been around a bit and learned more (notably the comment about stopping the zone read crap) but I'm not thrilled that we are going backwards. He had loads of talent up front here and strong veterans to lead the ship, he simply doesn't have that now so we'll see.
What got me was his Twitter respone ( I am Paraphrasing )
and make a couple of FA signings, fans are going to be disappointed. Fewell was a problem, but lack of talent at S, LB and DT, excluding Hankins, was a bigger problem.
Spags defense was ranked seventh in 2007 his first year. His second they were fifth. That was without Strahan. Osi was on injured reserve. I believe Gibril Wilson left for Oakland and Torbor split for Miami. In St. Louis his defenses were not the problem. His offenses were nonexistant.
I don't think they are that devoid of talent that he can't get them to play consistenly better. A lot of people say he has had a downward arc and the perception is just that. However, there are two guys right now who failed miserably as head coaches and have returned to their roots and did very well this year and that would be Rod Marinelli and Scott Lenahan of the Cowboys.
Just remember this. You stood steadfast in the Spags sweepstakes. Both the Post and Daily News had it completely wrong. As a matter of fact I believe as recent as yesterday the Daily News still hadn't taken down the headline it looks like Fewelll and Quinn most likely to return. That's how good their sources were or weren't depending on your interpretation.
What I m saying is just because the guy has an opinion and is employed by a local newspaper we don't have to put any creedence in that opinion. We all know the deal here. We wanted him back and now he is. We know what he was capable of so Graziano can take a hike because they got it so wrong on so many levels.
Spags comes in and our D is ranked 7 and 5 the two years he is here. He leaves and the D drops to 13.
So, the Talent magically showed up the 2 years he was here (even though Strahan and Osi didn't play in 2008)?
I'm not saying that he is the greatest D coordinator in the league, but he certainly proved himself with the Giants and showed he could work with Tom Coughlin.
There is no doubt in my mind that Spags is a better D coordinator than Fewell, so we have an upgrade to look forward to. There was no way Coughlin was taking a chance with a guy who was never a D coordinator. This is a solid choice.
But I love the move. Spags is an excellent coach. He's energetic, creative, and he's probably learned a thing or two in the experiences. The situations in St. Louis and NO were a total mess. The guy can coach and it's our fortune the way things turned out.
Spags comes in and our D is ranked 7 and 5 the two years he is here. He leaves and the D drops to 13.
So, the Talent magically showed up the 2 years he was here (even though Strahan and Osi didn't play in 2008)?
Even more importantly, they were ranked 24th in points allowed in 2006, then 17th in 2007, Spag's first year, and by the playoffs they were as good as any D in the league.
Then in 2008 we lose Strahan. Kiwi who had lost weight to play LB has to convert back to full-time DE after the preseason after Osi goes down in 3rd preseason game, and the defense still ranks 5th in terms of points.
In 2009, Spags leaves, we get Osi back, but the D still drop to 30th in points allowed. They drop from 5th to 30th.
...and every decision from here on from him will reflect that. This was just the first salvo.
I don't think so. It is safe to assume they were after Spags hard from the get go and reports were there were hugs for 5 minutes when they met in the interview. Spags makes sense from a preservation sense, but I don't get the sense at all that the feeling internally is that this is about preservation and not making a mistake. There seems to be genuine excitement.
That is such bullshit. For any and all of us who are diehard Giants fans after eleven years of Tom Coughlin thinks this is about self preservation and given the way the Mara's do things is nonsense.
Tom is a grinder plain and simple. If this is simply about self preservation Mara would recognize that and Tom would be gone. He's sixty nine years old or soon to be. He doesn't need it. He can retire comfortably. So to say this is about self preservation makes no sense.
Anyone that thinks TC is or has ever been in preservation mode obviously has not been paying attention the past 10 years. He does what he thinks needs to be done to win.
That is such bullshit. For any and all of us who are diehard Giants fans after eleven years of Tom Coughlin thinks this is about self preservation and given the way the Mara's do things is nonsense.
Tom is a grinder plain and simple. If this is simply about self preservation Mara would recognize that and Tom would be gone. He's sixty nine years old or soon to be. He doesn't need it. He can retire comfortably. So to say this is about self preservation makes no sense.
Silverfox has posted his self preservation comments in three different posts. I don't buy it. There seems to be genuine excitement to have Spags back, and that doesn't come from the feelings of just try to keep one's job. IMO, they're excited because they believe Spags can coach.
You could see the panic in TC during the 6 game in 2013 and the 7 game losing streak this season. He lost control of the team and threw everyone under the bus. You might be in the top 10 of the clueless around here
Never has a positive thing to say about the Giants. Whether Spags is right for the job is debatable, but Graziano doesn't even have his facts straight. In 2008, Spags had no Strahan or Osi. And he got a lot out of no name guys like James Butler and Michael Johnson. But Graziano ignores those facts.
He had Tuck in his prime and Cofield/Robbins inside and AP at MLB, so the run was not an issue. This team cannot stop the run, that is an enormous problem he will have to fix with not much to do it with. The other benefit this defense had was a hammer of a running game that could eat up clock and keep them fresh when need be and we don't have that either. His scheme was too complex to be picked up quickly, which is why we gave up 80 points in the first two weeks. Guess what? That was BEFORE the CBA put the clamps on practice time. You think this group, with fewer veteran leaders, no ability to stop the run and about 1/3 the time to practice and learn is going to suddenly get smart and stout against the run?
I'm happy Fewell is gone but I think this is a mistake. He's been disastrous everywhere else since which speaks to one truth; it was his players that made it go and he doesn't have any where near that here now. I am of the opinion that the Spags hire is to help keep JPP in the fold since he leans so heavily on Strahan and Osi as mentors.
I think he's obviously a bright coordinator, some of the things he devised to clamp down in the playoffs in 2007 were tactically impressive. His defense clobbered the best offense this league has ever seen points wise. The but remains though, he had Strahan, Osi, Tuck, Robbins, Cofield, Pierce to throw at people and make their lives miserable. Without that group he didn't fare so well in St. Louis or New Orleans and he was on a staff that got run off the field in Foxboro a few weeks ago with plenty of front 7 talent.
I'll trust TC on this, he did mention that it's not the same system he runs and he's been around a bit and learned more (notably the comment about stopping the zone read crap) but I'm not thrilled that we are going backwards. He had loads of talent up front here and strong veterans to lead the ship, he simply doesn't have that now so we'll see.
+1
Really wanted a Hungry Pepper
I think Graziano has a point. Why not go the McAdoo route and
bring in some fresh thinking? I like Spags, but I don't think he should have been viewed as a slam dunk choice. The main thing that bothers me is that that they seem to be of the mind that they are going to be a real contender in 2015 and can't abide a 1st time DefCo. I don't by that they are a legit contender this year.
One of the thinks I liked about Spags was that he was creative. I don't see him as a system guy bringing some stale rehashed system. And I also read he's been speaking to coaches including at the college level with respect to defending the spread offense. You get the idea they are planning to build something moreso than bring something.
Was it him that made our D successful? Was it the players?
At the end of the day, there is one thing I would bet my entire house on: I fully 1000% believe he is better than Fewell. So we are already better.
maybe some, but perhaps not enough. The real culprits are the fools that keep selecting the talent for the defense. When will we ever have linebackers?
following his NYG career.TC is always about winning & bringing back Spags gives him an aggressive DC who TC feels comfortable with & has seen positive results in the past. We live in an age of social media where guys like Graziano, Ranaan post negative articles to stroke their brand. Let's see what they write in Nov/Dec if Spags has righted the defensive ship & the G-Men are right where we want them to be. These guys write like Spags forgot how to run a defense-give me a break!
but I'm not bothered by Graziano. He isn't the most positive beat writer, but I think he usually puts thought into his analysis.
Since Fewell was fired, he has been saying on twitter that if Spags is hired, he hopes it is for the right reasons. Since it seems like Spags was a lock even before the interviews, Graziano probably feels that this was not the case.
I don't agree, but I don't mind. The "write something negative, giants fans bitch, rinse repeat" thing was obnoxious. Not defending that.
If you're going to pile it on a beat writer, make it Raanan. I honestly don't understand what he contributes of substance.
That is such bullshit. For any and all of us who are diehard Giants fans after eleven years of Tom Coughlin thinks this is about self preservation and given the way the Mara's do things is nonsense.
Tom is a grinder plain and simple. If this is simply about self preservation Mara would recognize that and Tom would be gone. He's sixty nine years old or soon to be. He doesn't need it. He can retire comfortably. So to say this is about self preservation makes no sense.
So why didn't he retire? Maybe it's cause "he does need it." Some people can't let go, and Coughlin is one of them.
The Giants are ultra-conservative, and afraid to take chances. Judging from BBI, so is there fan base. Two years ago, the Eagles brought in Kelly and they play winning football, and aren't that talented. (Save the comments about his style being a gimmick. They win and kick the Giants' asses without a quality QB.) The Jets let Rex go, and brought in Todd Bowles, whose record shows he can build a strong defense.
The Giants carry on with a 68-year-old coach whose team hasn't beaten a good team in nearly 3 years.
Spags comes in and our D is ranked 7 and 5 the two years he is here. He leaves and the D drops to 13.
So, the Talent magically showed up the 2 years he was here (even though Strahan and Osi didn't play in 2008)?
Even more importantly, they were ranked 24th in points allowed in 2006, then 17th in 2007, Spag's first year, and by the playoffs they were as good as any D in the league.
Then in 2008 we lose Strahan. Kiwi who had lost weight to play LB has to convert back to full-time DE after the preseason after Osi goes down in 3rd preseason game, and the defense still ranks 5th in terms of points.
In 2009, Spags leaves, we get Osi back, but the D still drop to 30th in points allowed. They drop from 5th to 30th.
You could see the panic in TC during the 6 game in 2013 and the 7 game losing streak this season. He lost control of the team and threw everyone under the bus. You might be in the top 10 of the clueless around here
You are generous today, HH..Top 2 would ge far more accurate..It's between him and Kepler20
Speak for what happened, when Spags went to those other teams. But I can say, when Spags was here, the Giants defense was feared/respected. But now, That identity is long gone. This is a smart move
TC is quite obviously going back to the well for a final push to finish out his career. If Spags had been with any other team other than the Giants for 07-08 there is no way he is DC of this team. He is here because TC knows and trusts him. TC will sink or swim with his guys in place...and I have no problem with that.
Time will tell if the move was in the overall best interests of the franchise.
but I'm not bothered by Graziano. He isn't the most positive beat writer, but I think he usually puts thought into his analysis.
Since Fewell was fired, he has been saying on twitter that if Spags is hired, he hopes it is for the right reasons. Since it seems like Spags was a lock even before the interviews, Graziano probably feels that this was not the case.
I don't agree, but I don't mind. The "write something negative, giants fans bitch, rinse repeat" thing was obnoxious. Not defending that.
If you're going to pile it on a beat writer, make it Raanan. I honestly don't understand what he contributes of substance.
If Spags was the lock, then why interview all available DCs that they liked? They didn't have to.
I was really hoping for someone completely new with something completely fresh. It almost feels like this is another Coughlin signing, and it probably is.. Do the Giants really want to take a risk and gamble in the position they are in right now?? Can he have the same success he did back then with the players the Giants have right now? Is this short term? It just seems risky imo..
He had Tuck in his prime and Cofield/Robbins inside and AP at MLB, so the run was not an issue. This team cannot stop the run, that is an enormous problem he will have to fix with not much to do it with. The other benefit this defense had was a hammer of a running game that could eat up clock and keep them fresh when need be and we don't have that either. His scheme was too complex to be picked up quickly, which is why we gave up 80 points in the first two weeks. Guess what? That was BEFORE the CBA put the clamps on practice time. You think this group, with fewer veteran leaders, no ability to stop the run and about 1/3 the time to practice and learn is going to suddenly get smart and stout against the run?
I'm happy Fewell is gone but I think this is a mistake. He's been disastrous everywhere else since which speaks to one truth; it was his players that made it go and he doesn't have any where near that here now. I am of the opinion that the Spags hire is to help keep JPP in the fold since he leans so heavily on Strahan and Osi as mentors.
I think he's obviously a bright coordinator, some of the things he devised to clamp down in the playoffs in 2007 were tactically impressive. His defense clobbered the best offense this league has ever seen points wise. The but remains though, he had Strahan, Osi, Tuck, Robbins, Cofield, Pierce to throw at people and make their lives miserable. Without that group he didn't fare so well in St. Louis or New Orleans and he was on a staff that got run off the field in Foxboro a few weeks ago with plenty of front 7 talent.
I'll trust TC on this, he did mention that it's not the same system he runs and he's been around a bit and learned more (notably the comment about stopping the zone read crap) but I'm not thrilled that we are going backwards. He had loads of talent up front here and strong veterans to lead the ship, he simply doesn't have that now so we'll see.
2. Fans don't like it and let me have it
3. The Giants fail to make the Playoffs
4. Rinse and Repeat
Is that not the case every year? You're really going out on a limb there.
I don't think they are that devoid of talent that he can't get them to play consistenly better. A lot of people say he has had a downward arc and the perception is just that. However, there are two guys right now who failed miserably as head coaches and have returned to their roots and did very well this year and that would be Rod Marinelli and Scott Lenahan of the Cowboys.
What I m saying is just because the guy has an opinion and is employed by a local newspaper we don't have to put any creedence in that opinion. We all know the deal here. We wanted him back and now he is. We know what he was capable of so Graziano can take a hike because they got it so wrong on so many levels.
So, the Talent magically showed up the 2 years he was here (even though Strahan and Osi didn't play in 2008)?
I'm not saying that he is the greatest D coordinator in the league, but he certainly proved himself with the Giants and showed he could work with Tom Coughlin.
There is no doubt in my mind that Spags is a better D coordinator than Fewell, so we have an upgrade to look forward to. There was no way Coughlin was taking a chance with a guy who was never a D coordinator. This is a solid choice.
So, the Talent magically showed up the 2 years he was here (even though Strahan and Osi didn't play in 2008)?
Even more importantly, they were ranked 24th in points allowed in 2006, then 17th in 2007, Spag's first year, and by the playoffs they were as good as any D in the league.
Then in 2008 we lose Strahan. Kiwi who had lost weight to play LB has to convert back to full-time DE after the preseason after Osi goes down in 3rd preseason game, and the defense still ranks 5th in terms of points.
In 2009, Spags leaves, we get Osi back, but the D still drop to 30th in points allowed. They drop from 5th to 30th.
This is not all about talent. Spags can coach.
I don't think so. It is safe to assume they were after Spags hard from the get go and reports were there were hugs for 5 minutes when they met in the interview. Spags makes sense from a preservation sense, but I don't get the sense at all that the feeling internally is that this is about preservation and not making a mistake. There seems to be genuine excitement.
Tom is a grinder plain and simple. If this is simply about self preservation Mara would recognize that and Tom would be gone. He's sixty nine years old or soon to be. He doesn't need it. He can retire comfortably. So to say this is about self preservation makes no sense.
Tom is a grinder plain and simple. If this is simply about self preservation Mara would recognize that and Tom would be gone. He's sixty nine years old or soon to be. He doesn't need it. He can retire comfortably. So to say this is about self preservation makes no sense.
Silverfox has posted his self preservation comments in three different posts. I don't buy it. There seems to be genuine excitement to have Spags back, and that doesn't come from the feelings of just try to keep one's job. IMO, they're excited because they believe Spags can coach.
Quote:
Never has a positive thing to say about the Giants. Whether Spags is right for the job is debatable, but Graziano doesn't even have his facts straight. In 2008, Spags had no Strahan or Osi. And he got a lot out of no name guys like James Butler and Michael Johnson. But Graziano ignores those facts.
He had Tuck in his prime and Cofield/Robbins inside and AP at MLB, so the run was not an issue. This team cannot stop the run, that is an enormous problem he will have to fix with not much to do it with. The other benefit this defense had was a hammer of a running game that could eat up clock and keep them fresh when need be and we don't have that either. His scheme was too complex to be picked up quickly, which is why we gave up 80 points in the first two weeks. Guess what? That was BEFORE the CBA put the clamps on practice time. You think this group, with fewer veteran leaders, no ability to stop the run and about 1/3 the time to practice and learn is going to suddenly get smart and stout against the run?
I'm happy Fewell is gone but I think this is a mistake. He's been disastrous everywhere else since which speaks to one truth; it was his players that made it go and he doesn't have any where near that here now. I am of the opinion that the Spags hire is to help keep JPP in the fold since he leans so heavily on Strahan and Osi as mentors.
I think he's obviously a bright coordinator, some of the things he devised to clamp down in the playoffs in 2007 were tactically impressive. His defense clobbered the best offense this league has ever seen points wise. The but remains though, he had Strahan, Osi, Tuck, Robbins, Cofield, Pierce to throw at people and make their lives miserable. Without that group he didn't fare so well in St. Louis or New Orleans and he was on a staff that got run off the field in Foxboro a few weeks ago with plenty of front 7 talent.
I'll trust TC on this, he did mention that it's not the same system he runs and he's been around a bit and learned more (notably the comment about stopping the zone read crap) but I'm not thrilled that we are going backwards. He had loads of talent up front here and strong veterans to lead the ship, he simply doesn't have that now so we'll see.
+1
Really wanted a Hungry Pepper
Graziano seems to believe that if you cannot write something negative, you should not write anything.
At the end of the day, there is one thing I would bet my entire house on: I fully 1000% believe he is better than Fewell. So we are already better.
Quote:
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Steel wool, nails on chalkboards, spiders and vinegar I assume
LOL
Quote:
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Steel wool, nails on chalkboards, spiders and vinegar I assume
bwahaha sounds about right
Since Fewell was fired, he has been saying on twitter that if Spags is hired, he hopes it is for the right reasons. Since it seems like Spags was a lock even before the interviews, Graziano probably feels that this was not the case.
I don't agree, but I don't mind. The "write something negative, giants fans bitch, rinse repeat" thing was obnoxious. Not defending that.
If you're going to pile it on a beat writer, make it Raanan. I honestly don't understand what he contributes of substance.
Tom is a grinder plain and simple. If this is simply about self preservation Mara would recognize that and Tom would be gone. He's sixty nine years old or soon to be. He doesn't need it. He can retire comfortably. So to say this is about self preservation makes no sense.
So why didn't he retire? Maybe it's cause "he does need it." Some people can't let go, and Coughlin is one of them.
The Giants are ultra-conservative, and afraid to take chances. Judging from BBI, so is there fan base. Two years ago, the Eagles brought in Kelly and they play winning football, and aren't that talented. (Save the comments about his style being a gimmick. They win and kick the Giants' asses without a quality QB.) The Jets let Rex go, and brought in Todd Bowles, whose record shows he can build a strong defense.
The Giants carry on with a 68-year-old coach whose team hasn't beaten a good team in nearly 3 years.
Quote:
Spags comes in and our D is ranked 7 and 5 the two years he is here. He leaves and the D drops to 13.
So, the Talent magically showed up the 2 years he was here (even though Strahan and Osi didn't play in 2008)?
Even more importantly, they were ranked 24th in points allowed in 2006, then 17th in 2007, Spag's first year, and by the playoffs they were as good as any D in the league.
Then in 2008 we lose Strahan. Kiwi who had lost weight to play LB has to convert back to full-time DE after the preseason after Osi goes down in 3rd preseason game, and the defense still ranks 5th in terms of points.
In 2009, Spags leaves, we get Osi back, but the D still drop to 30th in points allowed. They drop from 5th to 30th.
This is not all about talent. Spags can coach.
Excellent post
You are generous today, HH..Top 2 would ge far more accurate..It's between him and Kepler20
Time will tell if the move was in the overall best interests of the franchise.
They are not building for the future....they are still in the win now mode, and that is part of the reason for signing Spag's.....
Spags brings the experience to win now and JR brings the future(draft and FA).
Since Fewell was fired, he has been saying on twitter that if Spags is hired, he hopes it is for the right reasons. Since it seems like Spags was a lock even before the interviews, Graziano probably feels that this was not the case.
I don't agree, but I don't mind. The "write something negative, giants fans bitch, rinse repeat" thing was obnoxious. Not defending that.
If you're going to pile it on a beat writer, make it Raanan. I honestly don't understand what he contributes of substance.