This has been a pretty heavy debate here a few times. Some of you are very tunnel-visioned in regard to personnel and have blasted others for simply thinking Pugh could be moved inside. The truth it....Pugh may very well be a guard sooner rather than later.
I listened to both interviews conducted by Francessa (Coughlin and Reese). BOTH were very non-commital to Pugh staying at RT. It really seemed like they were implying a move to guard was ver possible, maybe even likely. When it comes to FA and the draft, I don't think Pugh playing RT has even a small impact on their decision. If they want a FA RT or rookie RT, they will go get him. Pugh won't be factoring in that decision process. I actually believe he could be a better LG than RT, would love to see the move.
Also said that Richburg is a center.
Don't think he touched on Beatty
That was for Randee's post
Ho hum. It's obvious to those who actually pay attention and makes plenty of sense.
I like the move on a number of levels (if they can get a Peat or one of the top OTs). Richburg definitely goes to C, Schwartz goes back to RG where he belongs, and having Pugh at LG should help Beatty.
I am sure he could put on another 10 lbs or so without an issue
Didn't he play everywhere but center at Syracuse?
jlukes : 11:56 am : link : reply
Pugh is 6'4, 300
I am sure he could put on another 10 lbs or so without an issue
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Seubert was 6'3, 310 lbs
jlukes : 11:56 am : link : reply
Pugh is 6'4, 300
I am sure he could put on another 10 lbs or so without an issue
Maybe they can take an inch off his legs and add it to his arms!
(wait, then he'll need to move back to OT with his long arms...)
Beatty-Pugh-Richburg-Schwartz-(FA or early draft pick) and we're set for the next few years.
But one of the things that the Giants praised about Pugh when drafting him was his positional versatility so you knew it was always a possibility.
But in either case, once again, this OL could be in flux, where only one guy in this OL, will be returning to his original position from last season.....that means lack on continuity, and growing pains at the beginning of the season....this OL sucked in preseason, and wasn't much better when the season started...
I don't think their goal is to justify anything. Their goal is to put together the best possible combination of OLine. You justify things by winning games, not putting people where they don't best belong so you can say see I drafted a tackle.
The question becomes...why?
he didn't really have a stellar sophomore year. Although there were hints at his being injured much of the year, we didn't hear of anything after the season was over, when it usually comes out that (insert player name here) didn't do so well because of a nagging injury. So, if you discount injury as being a major part of the lack of progress, are they considering a move with the thought that he'd be a better guard?
Or is it a case of Pugh not being that much of a stud at RT so you plan your acquisitions with the idea of not having to force getting a guard if there's better value at RT?
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I think because they desperately wanted to justify the Pugh pick at 19 and Ts are usually though of as more valuable than Gs.
I don't think their goal is to justify anything. Their goal is to put together the best possible combination of OLine. You justify things by winning games, not putting people where they don't best belong so you can say see I drafted a tackle.
I agree and where did this idiotic notion come from that an OL has to play T to be worthy of a high pick? To me, as long a a high draft pick plays at a high level for a long time, who cares what spot on the line?
But one of the things that the Giants praised about Pugh when drafting him was his positional versatility so you knew it was always a possibility.
But that's changing too. Look at where Jon Cooper and Chance Warmack went in the Draft. They're strictly Guards
The question becomes...why?
Because regardless of where he is better, they believe he is capable of playing either and they need to keep their options open for FA and the draft. They want to add talent and the best way to do that is to have flexibility to follow the value wherever it becomes available.
clearly brewer is a bust as they still allow the swing door that is beatty to stay and keep playing pugh out of position if brewer cant start under those conditions he never will
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I think because they desperately wanted to justify the Pugh pick at 19 and Ts are usually though of as more valuable than Gs.
I don't think their goal is to justify anything. Their goal is to put together the best possible combination of OLine. You justify things by winning games, not putting people where they don't best belong so you can say see I drafted a tackle.
I'm pretty sure Chris was talking about BBI posters
RT carries exponential value right now: it improves 3 positions (LG, C and RT), improves the OL as a group, and thus the entire team
It all comes down to what they get in the draft. If they nab a stud OT in round 1, he's moving inside. If the draft falls where they end up with an OG that is big time BPA then he'll stay at tackle. Of course FA may play a role here as well.
What is the pro-typical LG characteristics?
Seriously, I don't know....
I do know Pugh has never played guard save a few snaps at his senior bowl.
I suppose the reason RT may be open is to provide an upgrade in run blocking over Pugh. If he's not excellent at run blocking, why move him to guard at all?
spend another preimum pick on on OL , maybe a guard in round 2 or 3.
suddenly you OL is 6 deep and can withstand an injury
What is the pro-typical LG characteristics?
Seriously, I don't know....
I do know Pugh has never played guard save a few snaps at his senior bowl.
I suppose the reason RT may be open is to provide an upgrade in run blocking over Pugh. If he's not excellent at run blocking, why move him to guard at all?
The very good DD, RS, SO, CS, KM OL featured two right side players that were pile driving run blockers, though Snee certainly was also accomplished at pulling and trapping. The left side guys, DD and RS, were both excellent on the move run blocking. DD as a former OG was always a liability as a pass blocking OLT who needed help vs premier pass rushers, but he was a very good run blocker, rather strikingly good at pulling or trap blocking for an OT. Gilbride used that skill often.
spend another preimum pick on on OL , maybe a guard in round 2 or 3.
suddenly you OL is 6 deep and can withstand an injury
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I think because they desperately wanted to justify the Pugh pick at 19 and Ts are usually though of as more valuable than Gs.
But one of the things that the Giants praised about Pugh when drafting him was his positional versatility so you knew it was always a possibility.
But that's changing too. Look at where Jon Cooper and Chance Warmack went in the Draft. They're strictly Guards
Cooper has been a wasted pick his first 2 years
We need to get, by draft or FA, a quality RT of McKenzie type; Pugh is not that kind of player in the running game and in pass pro gets overpowered. Get his mobility and feet inside, to pull, to get to second level, to seal with a good center.
He became the RT because the Giants had no other desirable options. You can argue that there were better options in 2013 than taking the 7th (8th?) OL taken in the first round, but Reese's roster management left few alternatives.
I'm not so sure there's a FA RT they're targeting yet, but if they have an OT carrying a high enough grade at #9 and DE/WR aren't equivalently graded, they'll probably pick OT.
Rookie should be good enough to plug in at RT, kick Pugh inside, and hopefully it's Peat who ultimately projects to LT. If they're truly looking to upgrade the OL, they'll be looking for two OT's and this is where I'd be looking at UFA for a FA RT.
I'm not so sure there's a FA RT they're targeting yet, but if they have an OT carrying a high enough grade at #9 and DE/WR aren't equivalently graded, they'll probably pick OT.
Rookie should be good enough to plug in at RT, kick Pugh inside, and hopefully it's Peat who ultimately projects to LT. If they're truly looking to upgrade the OL, they'll be looking for two OT's and this is where I'd be looking at UFA for a FA RT.
A strong FA RT will be a major improvement over the current popcorn FART of an OL they have trotted out there the past few years.
I'm not so sure there's a FA RT they're targeting yet...
don't sleep on derek newton. bill o'brien and gary kubiak were both crazy about him. normally guys like this dont shake free but they gave all their $$$ to j.j.watt and they need a QB
its a common transition and if pugh is serious about football it will be easy enough. and he has the athleticism to be above average
...but dont compare him to seubert. he is not as gritty or tough as richie seubert
So would you see- Beatty - Pugh - Richburg - RG TBD - Schwartz?
If Pugh moves to guard, you have to wonder if he was the smart choice for a #1 pick. Not because he was moved to guard, but I'm not sure he will be a very good guard. He's kind of technician, not a mauler.
It took the giants 2 seasons to realize pugh might be better at guard? Or maybe not? Richburg.The best center in the draft we will play him at guard because we signed some guy who had been hurt and had not played for almost 2 years.
What the fuck.
If Pugh moves to guard, you have to wonder if he was the smart choice for a #1 pick. Not because he was moved to guard, but I'm not sure he will be a very good guard. He's kind of technician, not a mauler.
I wonder if the Giants would pull that trigger if, say, Logan Mankins was released by Tampa Bay? He's going to be 33, making a ton of money, and not sure he would make sense eating up that much cap space on a team that has needs everywhere.
Build the best OL, if that means Pugh was overdrafted (and he probably was), so be it.
Give us Peat.
According to Schwartz' own twitter, he said he's on schedule and will be able to start working out soon. He should be good to go.
That's the truth. The same goes for the linebacker position.
Good luck next year everyone.
Good luck next year everyone.
And overhauling 75% of the Defense too.
Keeping Flaherty, Nunn, Hermann and Quinn make no sense to me.
I would look at FA G - I have thought all along about C. Boling, as Cincy has other needs to resign.
I then look at M. Roos as the b/u swing T. He is not going to resign in TN
That at worst gives you 2G's, Richburgh at C and Beatty & Pugh. Roos, Walton, Mosley, 2 draft picks
I am not drafting Scherf at 9 to play the interior. I would over draft a T at 9.
The question is, if you sign a FA G, the 2015 line becomes set. Do you then spend the 9th pick on a guy who will not play.
Blocking is more than "hit the guy in front of you". Movement and angles are at least as important as pure power.
I'd like them to go get a dominant mauler type RT and move Pugh inside. I think that's the best scenario. Beatty, Pugh, Richburg, Schwartz, RT.
Don't think would be a bad get at all, but would he be BPA with some of the other LT versatile lineman that are out there (or maybe blue chip receivers). Guess we'll see.
He has played Tackle for years now and, if anything, is described by Eric and others as more 'technician' than 'mauler' with good movement, balance and footwork. That sound to me more like traits typical of a good Tackle than Guard.
I don't get what people are seeing that tells them Pugh is better suited to a move inside.
Don't read too much into that interview. Tom Coughlin isn't going to commit to anything and leave every option open until the start of the season. Sure he'll move Pugh to Guard if he finds a better tackle. Sure he'll move Eli Manning to backup QB if he finds a better QB...etc.
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In comment 12096830 chris r said:
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I think because they desperately wanted to justify the Pugh pick at 19 and Ts are usually though of as more valuable than Gs.
But one of the things that the Giants praised about Pugh when drafting him was his positional versatility so you knew it was always a possibility.
But that's changing too. Look at where Jon Cooper and Chance Warmack went in the Draft. They're strictly Guards
Cooper has been a wasted pick his first 2 years
That's because of injuries. He missed his entire rookie season because of a broken leg, which affected his play in 2014, as well as having a bad wrist towards the end of 2014 (wore a cast). Just bad luck. It's a wasted pick as of now because of the injuries he's encountered. You can't really foresee that.