Excited about our Defense next year

Going from a franchise and sometimes NFL historically bad defense to Top 10 defense is a long, long way.

the DBs will reap the benefits. If DRC and Prince are healthy they will be tough to beat.

last year, but, it all depends on the off season re: how we'll do next year. not enough talent and a lot of uncertainty

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Hey, it can't get any worse right?

Hey, it can always be worse! You would like to think the Giants are due for a little help on the overall luck and injury front, though.

In comment 12096946 Bold Ruler said:

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Going from a franchise and sometimes NFL historically bad defense to Top 10 defense is a long, long way.

If we had healthy players and finished bottom of the league, that would make sense. But missing Prince, Beason, Thurmond, McBride, Ayers, and DRC being limpy most of the season, played a huge roll. Plus Fewell stinks.

He hasn't even played regularly yet. He's still a maybe at this point. And you say they are "close to a top 10" defense? How? They are superior at CB IF and ONLY IF Prince and DRC are healthy. Where else are they even average? Kennard looks like he can be a player, but only played 4 games. McClain is okay but stop gap. On the line, it's Hankins and? There is a strong chance that JPP is gone. Safety might be a bigger mess than LB.

In comment 12096980 weaverpsu said:

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In comment 12096946 Bold Ruler said: Quote: Going from a franchise and sometimes NFL historically bad defense to Top 10 defense is a long, long way. If we had healthy players and finished bottom of the league, that would make sense. But missing Prince, Beason, Thurmond, McBride, Ayers, and DRC being limpy most of the season, played a huge roll. Plus Fewell stinks.

We were really bad even before the injuries.

the guy that seems to be slipping under everyone's radar is Kerry Wynn. This guy was solid on the DL down the stretch. I'm praying that Wynn and Moore take a step forward next season. Two cost controlled DEs that can play would go a long way towards getting this D back on track.

I wonder how Reese plans to allocate the money on D going forward. IN the past the DL and DBs took up most of the money but right now outside of JPP's inevitable contract no one else on the DL is making much money at all. The money is actually being paid in the secondary. Hank is cheap for another few years. Moore the same. Wynn is cheap. Ayers is a vet making decent money...that's about it. I think Reese has plans on spending some money on the DL this off-season if the right FA comes along. Wouldn't be shocked if Reese tries to drop some money on a FA DT....he may even make a run at Suh. But I doubt he lands him since Suh will break the bank.

Reese has tried before. HE went after HAynesworth and got Canty for big bucks. At the time, the other DT (Joseph) was cheaper and cost controlled- kind of like today's DT situation.

last off-season the roster turnover was inevitable. But really, only 3 maybe 4 big moves were made with Schwartz, DRC and Jennings and I guess McClain and Walton...the latter two more of the under the radar variety. Then you had the multitude of stop gap or one year contracts with guys like McBRide and the other Corners...not to mention the Jerry and whatever the fuck the other OL slob's name was that was cut before the year was out. While last off-season looked sexy from afar, really only 3 truly big signings were handed out.

I think this off-season will see 2-3 big signings and then not much else. JPP tagged and one or two other vets brought in to reasonable large contracts. I'm thinking maybe a DL and Safety and OL.

That's my take...I think Reese has room to spend money along the DL if the right guys springs free and OL/Saftey will be addressed as need positions.

In comment 12096991 Bold Ruler said:

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In comment 12096980 weaverpsu said: Quote: In comment 12096946 Bold Ruler said: Quote: Going from a franchise and sometimes NFL historically bad defense to Top 10 defense is a long, long way. If we had healthy players and finished bottom of the league, that would make sense. But missing Prince, Beason, Thurmond, McBride, Ayers, and DRC being limpy most of the season, played a huge roll. Plus Fewell stinks. We were really bad even before the injuries.

that too

would be fewer WR's running free as the DB's look at each other in astonishment.

The Giants need to improve quickly on defense but I think they can at least get to average soon.

Average would be nice...

Giants will cautiously hope Cruz comes back and go into camp with Beckham and RAndle is the starters and maybe JErnigan comes back and gets one more chance. I thought aan annoying under the radar injury from 2014 was Jernigan. I would have liked to have seen what he could do after the Cruz injury...

As much as I want a RB added I don't think it happens via FA but a draft pick could be added.

I think the Giants spend the majority of their loot on the defense this off-season. JPP, A safety and maybe even another DT will be targeted...the D needs some immediate help but I don't think it needs an overhaul. There's talent there.

In comment 12096994 djm said:

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the guy that seems to be slipping under everyone's radar is Kerry Wynn. This guy was solid on the DL down the stretch. I'm praying that Wynn and Moore take a step forward next season. Two cost controlled DEs that can play would go a long way towards getting this D back on track. I wonder how Reese plans to allocate the money on D going forward. IN the past the DL and DBs took up most of the money but right now outside of JPP's inevitable contract no one else on the DL is making much money at all. The money is actually being paid in the secondary. Hank is cheap for another few years. Moore the same. Wynn is cheap. Ayers is a vet making decent money...that's about it. I think Reese has plans on spending some money on the DL this off-season if the right FA comes along. Wouldn't be shocked if Reese tries to drop some money on a FA DT....he may even make a run at Suh. But I doubt he lands him since Suh will break the bank. Reese has tried before. HE went after HAynesworth and got Canty for big bucks. At the time, the other DT (Joseph) was cheaper and cost controlled- kind of like today's DT situation. last off-season the roster turnover was inevitable. But really, only 3 maybe 4 big moves were made with Schwartz, DRC and Jennings and I guess McClain and Walton...the latter two more of the under the radar variety. Then you had the multitude of stop gap or one year contracts with guys like McBRide and the other Corners...not to mention the Jerry and whatever the fuck the other OL slob's name was that was cut before the year was out. While last off-season looked sexy from afar, really only 3 truly big signings were handed out. I think this off-season will see 2-3 big signings and then not much else. JPP tagged and one or two other vets brought in to reasonable large contracts. I'm thinking maybe a DL and Safety and OL. That's my take...I think Reese has room to spend money along the DL if the right guys springs free and OL/Saftey will be addressed as need positions.

Good post. It will be intetesting to see how Moore and Wynn develop or are used by Spags. Ayers and Kennard as well. Spags also got career best play from Boley at Will, that guy isn't yet onthe roster... Unless maybe Victor Butler?

smoking. Give me some.

In comment 12096986 Victor in CT said:

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He hasn't even played regularly yet. He's still a maybe at this point. And you say they are "close to a top 10" defense? How? They are superior at CB IF and ONLY IF Prince and DRC are healthy. Where else are they even average? Kennard looks like he can be a player, but only played 4 games. McClain is okay but stop gap. On the line, it's Hankins and? There is a strong chance that JPP is gone. Safety might be a bigger mess than LB.

I did say IMO. He will have an impact next year. Of course I am judging them on if they are healthy. How can you judge them any other way. JPP, Ayers, Hankins, Moore, and a future draft pick = above average IMO. Those corners are everything though. They need to stay healthy.

will be in 2007 and 2008 the strength of this defense was up front with the defensive ends and LBS...

Now he has a secondary that you can put on an island...I do think Thurmond comes back so you then have 3 corners that you can leave in 1 on 1 situations..

That will help the defensive line in turn because then spags can draw up blitzes without having to worry about the secondary being left on islands....

Of course that all changes once the inevitable secondary injuries start to happen...

DEs and LBers starting in '08???

to be a top defense in 2015:

• JPP comes back and returns to something close to peak form. That is: Pro-Bowl or All-Pro form. Or they get someone else who is at least as good as JPP was at the end of last season.
  
• Hankins improves yet more and also gets to Pro-Bowl performance.
  
• Bromley steps in to start at DT with Hankins and is no worse than average for an NFL starter.
  
• Kennard stayes healthy and plays at a high level all season.
  
• Moore improves enough to at least split time on the other end from JPP.
  
• Amukamara, Rogers-Cromartie, Thurmond, Taylor all come back healty and stay healthy.
  Behre improves enough to at least press for starting job.
  
• They draft at least one player, preferably two or three, who play well and contribute on defense (not just special teams) in their rookie season.

They need most of those things to happen to be top 10 in 2015. Unless Spags really is a defensive genius and can find a way to get guys like Stevie Brown, Herzlich and J. Williams to excel.

In comment 12097136 RollBlue said:

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DEs and LBers starting in '08???

Tuck had just come off a tremendous SB and took over for Strahan. They still had Osi. Tollefson was a good rotation player. Kiwi had arguably his best year. Pierce was still at MLB. At that time, there was still hope that at least one of Goff, Wilkinson or Kehl would become at least competent LBs. And Blckburn was still there and useful. Which LB on the Giants is now even as good as Blackburn? I think Kennard can be a player, but lets see him play 16 games first.

In comment 12097175 Victor in CT said:

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In comment 12097136 RollBlue said: Quote: DEs and LBers starting in '08??? Tuck had just come off a tremendous SB and took over for Strahan. They still had Osi. Tollefson was a good rotation player. Kiwi had arguably his best year. Pierce was still at MLB. At that time, there was still hope that at least one of Goff, Wilkinson or Kehl would become at least competent LBs. And Blckburn was still there and useful. Which LB on the Giants is now even as good as Blackburn? I think Kennard can be a player, but lets see him play 16 games first.

Osi did not play that year...

They did have a good defensive line though with Tuck cofield Robbins and Kiwi

Pierce was the captain and leader of that defense...

Clark ended up playing well for the Giants

The personnel has to be better otherwise people are going to be really disappointed.

"They need most of those things to happen to be top 10 in 2015. Unless Spags really is a defensive genius and can find a way to get guys like Stevie Brown, Herzlich and J. Williams to excel."

Really? Brown, Herzlich and Williams excel? Guys like that don't get better after 4 or 5 years of at best mediocrity. They are headed into the downside already.

In comment 12097194 Victor in CT said:

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"They need most of those things to happen to be top 10 in 2015. Unless Spags really is a defensive genius and can find a way to get guys like Stevie Brown, Herzlich and J. Williams to excel." Really? Brown, Herzlich and Williams excel? Guys like that don't get better after 4 or 5 years of at best mediocrity. They are headed into the downside already.

I don't expect any of those 3 are on the roster next year.

despite switching schemes we have continued getting same type of athletes - big, tall players w/long arms and big hands. even at DB. spags will have a place for drc, prince and cooper taylor and look for us to ad an over-sized nickel CB in the Ross/T2 mold.

noticed we were talking to Josh Shaw (USC) at East/West Shrine practice - no surprise. big burly 61 200# CB who plays inside and out

made by our LBs on the prongs of an ice pick.

In comment 12097194 Victor in CT said:

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"They need most of those things to happen to be top 10 in 2015. Unless Spags really is a defensive genius and can find a way to get guys like Stevie Brown, Herzlich and J. Williams to excel." Really? Brown, Herzlich and Williams excel? Guys like that don't get better after 4 or 5 years of at best mediocrity. They are headed into the downside already.

You won't get any argument from me. I'm just saying that unless Spags can spin mediocrities into gold, which is highly unlikely, the Giants need a lot of things to go right to make a huge jump in 2015.

something to keep in mind. If our offense can have the ball more often, our defense will be better as well. Something I expect as well. Hey, I'm being optimistic!

but slow and liability in coverage. Those other LBs suck. Blackburn was a very smart JAG -- a guy you need to fill out your roster with-- nothing more.

Kiwi played well, but he was still Kiwi -- maybe a good DC was getting the most out of his players.

Our Nickel CB was nothing to write home about. Our safeties were good -- none great.

The 2008 talent wasn't overwhelming by any stretch. Who was pro bowl worthy in that group besides Tuck? Spags was not coaching a line-up of HOFers.

through the next two drafts.

We have no safeties, just one LB in Kennard and two good DLmen

In comment 12097194 Victor in CT said:

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"They need most of those things to happen to be top 10 in 2015. Unless Spags really is a defensive genius and can find a way to get guys like Stevie Brown, Herzlich and J. Williams to excel." Really? Brown, Herzlich and Williams excel? Guys like that don't get better after 4 or 5 years of at best mediocrity. They are headed into the downside already.

I like that he'll have Kennard, Wynn, Bromley, Moore, Taylor(if he can ever get healthy) Hankins and other young talent to work with..JPP is an unknown, FA-wise

'07 and '08--and then trot out their names. In many cases, these players were not considered great before playing for Spagnuolo with the Giants; perhaps his coaching and scheme and their teammates had something to do with their success.

In other words, we define players by their successes--but in football, an individual's success often depends upon his circumstances as well as his own talent and work ethic.

Joe Montana is "sainted" as one of the top quarterbacks of all time--and he was great. But if he had played in the Daryl Lamonica Oakland Raiders downfield system, he probably wouldn't haven't gotten a job (until they changed the system.)

Just saying, to diminish Spagnuolo's accomplishments back in the day by attributing it all to the quality of his players, well, Spags helped make some of those players better. Had they not won, their careers would have been less illustrious.

And it's just possible that Spag's new system will liberate a few on the current roster. No guarantees, but I'm looking forward to the new year.

The Giants defense cannot get anymore discombobulated then it was under Perry Fewell. Spags won't let that happen. I don't think he forgot how to coach. Let's just give it a chance and see how it shakes out.

Sign Suh and jpp, and watch our D in the top 10.

how many people will start threads calling for Spags' firing if we start out slow on defense like back in 2007? What if the defense gives up combined 80+ points in the first two games?

I'm not too excited about resigning of Spags, but I guess it's better than maintaing the status quo...at least it's a change, right?

I think A healthy Beason would be a big commodity in next years defense. I like the three headed monster of cromartie, prince, and possibly Thurmond. We will see. I'm excited for free agency, draft, and the return of NY Giants football.

However, lets remember that we were also getting RUN OVER too often this year. Physically dominated more than out-coached at times. So, we still need to add a few more guys in the front 7 who are players. Make no mistake about that.

That kawika Mitchell was a veteran minimum signing that excelled in Spags system. Who knows what happens with Giants defensive players that are under contract for next year. You don't have to have all pro's at every position for a defense to excel.

In comment 12097816 EricJ said:

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However, lets remember that we were also getting RUN OVER too often this year. Physically dominated more than out-coached at times. So, we still need to add a few more guys in the front 7 who are players. Make no mistake about that.

Also consider the amount of injuries the Giants had. The players didn't have confidence in the calls. There was a lot of issues this past year.

In comment 12096980 weaverpsu said:

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In comment 12096946 Bold Ruler said: Quote: Going from a franchise and sometimes NFL historically bad defense to Top 10 defense is a long, long way. If we had healthy players and finished bottom of the league, that would make sense. But missing Prince, Beason, Thurmond, McBride, Ayers, and DRC being limpy most of the season, played a huge roll. Plus Fewell stinks.

The personnel didnt change a ton from Tim Lewis to Spagnuolo but the results did. Players play better in better systems. Barring catastrophic rash of injury, I see a similiar turnaround. The team most definitely has a good core on D if JPP is brought back. Reese will likely tweak and add as he does every year as well.

do you get excited with only DRC, Prince, and Hankins on defense? These are the only legitimate starters that can be counted on for next year....

In comment 12098002 Doomster said:

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do you get excited with only DRC, Prince, and Hankins on defense? These are the only legitimate starters that can be counted on for next year....

I think there is alot more than that especially if JPP comes back.

In comment 12098005 Jolly_Blue_Giant said:

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In comment 12098002 Doomster said: Quote: do you get excited with only DRC, Prince, and Hankins on defense? These are the only legitimate starters that can be counted on for next year.... . I think there is alot more than that especially if JPP comes back.

Moore ? Kennard ? Behre ? Jpp ? This defense might be young. But these guys have talent. They just haven't been used right

It's important.

I was on board with Perry getting axed but the guy almost never had a dependable MIKE in his entire 5 year tenure here. He had Jon Goff in 2010 who got hurt and saw his career end abruptly and wasn't anything special to begin, he won a SB with Blackburn there the next year (and he wasn't even here the entire season) and then had Beason for about a half season in 2013.

We had Dan fucking Connor penciled in there going into the 2013 season.

I'm glad Spags is back but we've got to get him more to work with.

have to do with the difference between Spaqnuola and Fewells ability to use the personnel and the scheme to compliment each other. Hoping there is a big difference in this area. Thought Fewell was very limited and only knew one defense to play. This made us very vulnerable to the offenses we played. We wiill see.

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