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Milton : 1/19/2015 7:20 am
Updated Jan 14, it differs from the CBS Sportsline Prospect Rankings (which were updated on Jan 12) despite the fact that they are from the same website. One notable difference is that Rang includes Anakim's favorite, Chris Hackett, in his top 50, whereas the Prospect Rankings have him at #141 overall.

My favorite prospect heading into the Senior Bowl practices is Randy Gregory, but there is little chance he will fall within striking range of the Giants pick....
Quote:
Gregory is the country's elite edge defender. From a two- or three-point stance, he's a natural pass rusher with an explosive get-off, flexibility, long arms and active hands and the tenacious style of play (including against the run) that will endear him to coaches.
The prospect that I like best who is likely to still be available when the Giants select is La'el Collins...
Quote:
Collins doesn't get the national attention of other tackles in this class, but the big man is surprisingly agile in pass protection and is a mauler in the running game.

Rang's top 50 (32+18) - ( New Window )
Collins  
lugnut : 1/19/2015 8:27 am : link
I believe our own Sy said Collins is the most pro ready of any of the OTs, could start day one. Good enough for me at #9.
Collins is too clumsy for my liking.  
robbieballs2003 : 1/19/2015 8:34 am : link
At 9 the only tackle I like as of now is Peat. Collins doesn't seem like he can play LT in the NFL. He might be a fantastic guard or RT but iI don't trust him as a LT.

A lot depends on who is available when we pick but right now I think too many people are trying to match talent with need along the OL and it seems like a reach to me. I think I'd rather have Cooper or White at WR. I like Danny Shelton at DT. I'm not sure of the DEs available because they are more tweeners. I have to do research on the S from Alabama. I don't know about Shaq Thompson because he did have Shelton keeping him clean. He seems very light to me. He is a play maker but I feel he needs people areound him to make him great as opposed to him making other around him great, if that makes any sense.
It ain't gonna be a OT  
David B. : 1/19/2015 8:49 am : link
Unless the Giants feel a guy is the second coming of Jonathan Ogden (and I haven't heard that about anyone in this class), they are not gonna draft an OT at 9th overall. Not since George Young was running things.
Robbie  
Milton : 1/19/2015 8:57 am : link
I'm not opposed to taking a receiver in round two, but it is a poor use of the team's limited assets to use the ninth pick on a WR when we already have a number 1 receiver and also have Cruz returning. Yeah, it's possible that Cruz will never be the same, but you don't insure against that with your first round pick. The team has bigger needs than to use that pick on a player who will, at best, be the number 2 receiver on the team throughout the length of his rookie contract. And there will be good WR's throughout the draft.

As for Peat, he had an inconsistent senior season and I worry that he lacks toughness. Here is what Boylhart had to say...
Quote:
If Andrus played this year the way he has in past, there is no doubt in my mind that I would consider him as one of the top five players in this draft. But that is based on his past years and being at a disadvantage in being able to interview players who have a bad year playing from years past, I’m willing to give Andrus the benefit of his past years rather than just looking at this year for this profile....Andrus still played at a high level for his team all year long, but he did not improve over past years and was more inconsistent than in past years.

Of La'el Collins, he had this to say....
Quote:
Lael is an aggressive, athletic offensive lineman who can play more than one position at a high level on your offensive line. He shows on film solid lateral agility to mirror his opponent and has the quick feet to go out to the second level to make his blocks...He is a dominant pulling offensive lineman and plays with the pride and leadership needed to be a starting player the day after you draft him...When pass blocking, he keeps his shoulders square to his opponent and when he does get beat, he can flip his hips and push his opponent up the field...When La'el is pulling, his opponents can read the numbers on the front of his jersey keeping his body square and making his blocks powerful and dominating even when he is on the move. When La'el is run blocking, he fires out quickly and at the correct pad level to make it almost impossible for defensive linemen of any size to change the line of scrimmage in their favor. He is a dominating offensive lineman.
Good enough isn't good enough  
JonC : 1/19/2015 9:00 am : link
not at OT at #9 ... they're not picking an OT there unless it's a left tackle, mark my words.
Yup  
Big Rick in FL : 1/19/2015 9:02 am : link
Everybody has us going OL. I don't see it at all. I don't think there is a single Olineman in this draft worth a top 10 pick.

I really hope the Giants go Amari Cooper. I know WR isn't a huge need, but a WR corp with Beckham, Randle, Cruz and Cooper would be insane. We could go 4 WR sets much more and really open things up. Have 3 WRs who could take it for 70 on any play. Then go D in rounds 2 and 3.

I'm also assuming we go after an Olineman or two in free agency.
Sure it will cost but it can be done.  
chiefmps : 1/19/2015 9:15 am : link
Easiest solution to fixing the Giants offensive line is... Sign Mike Iupati. If the Giants sign Iupati they won't have to use their first round pick on and offensive lineman. They can now wait until round five or later to get some help, most likely even a good chance of getting a starter. As of possible now you can have a line of... Beatty, Iupati, Richburg and then use Schwartz and Pugh as you see fit on the right side.
Milton dont take this the wrong way  
robbieballs2003 : 1/19/2015 9:16 am : link
I understand your point and if we were putting a team together for one year you would be correct but your opinion is short-sighted. I'm not giving up value (Beckham) for need (Martin). Now, I'm not saying that White or Cooper are Beckham since Beckham seems like a once in a decade type of player and I agree that we have more pressing needs but if White or Cooper are clearly better than what is out there you have to take him.

As far as the comparison between the OTs, I'm going by what I see and not by what is written. I'm not saying Collins or Schreff or Peat will be bad players in the NFL. They all have warts that are concerning to me. But from watching all three I don't see what I have seen from past drafts. I see average type of players. I just feel Peat is the best of the three in terms of being able to play LT in the NFL.

I truly hope we get our missing piece along the OL in FA as opposed to the draft so we aren't trying to fill a need as opposed to taking the best player available.

Even if the two QBs go in the top 8 that still doesn't guarantee us a stud at 9 which sucks. I want a player that has the best upside long term but also a player that can really impact the game. It is surprising that there are no corners mentioned early in the draft. Can the kid from Alabama help us? Probably but is he good enough. I have heard mixed reviews on him. We definitely need a pass rusher but are we going to go outside of our comfort zone with players who are undersized at the position? There are no TEs to talk about. I love some running backs in this draft but 9 is probably too early. That brings us to DT. Shelton is a little short for what we like but we always talk about how we need better LB play. There is no better way to get great LB play than getting DL that demand double teams. Shelton and Hankins would allow our LBs to roam free. Now, I'm sure he has warts to but I see the impact that he would have on the field that would he beneficial to others.

Finally, you agree that we cannot count on Cruz and Reese said as much. Who do we really have at the position behind Beckham? Randle has been so up and down. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that he has turned the corner. Who else? Picking a WR is a very real possibility. There is more than just a first round pick to fix a team. We have FA and other picks. I wouldn't be upset at all if we went WR. The draft should be used for what is right for this team ling term not what is right for this team today. FA is used for what is right for this team today. Reese says it all the time. He says you need to fill any major holes in FA so you to into the draft looking for the BPA.
WR 1 or 2  
BillT : 1/19/2015 9:19 am : link
With Cruz in doubt and Randle a question as well they must take a WR to compliment Beckham. Outside of QB, WR has become the most important position in football and there isn't a second place. They must add a major talent there.
And yes it sucks that as soon as we get Beckham we lose Cruz  
BillT : 1/19/2015 9:27 am : link
The bad luck for this team is unbelievable. But you have to have talent and depth at WR in today's NFL.
robbie  
JonC : 1/19/2015 9:30 am : link
Good post.
RE: Yup  
LauderdaleMatty : 1/19/2015 9:42 am : link
In comment 12100831 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
Everybody has us going OL. I don't see it at all. I don't think there is a single Olineman in this draft worth a top 10 pick.

I really hope the Giants go Amari Cooper. I know WR isn't a huge need, but a WR corp with Beckham, Randle, Cruz and Cooper would be insane. We could go 4 WR sets much more and really open things up. Have 3 WRs who could take it for 70 on any play. Then go D in rounds 2 and 3.

I'm also assuming we go after an Olineman or two in free agency.


For me Cooper may be the most over rated player here on BBI. Yes he's potentially a great player. Shame we aren't loaded everywhere else but with huge holes on the OL, DE, LB and S I'd trade down if I could before i grabbed him.

WRs unless you feel they are true freaks can be had in todays draft from rounds 1-3. We have OBJ. Randle as # 2 and hopefully Cruz. How many years do we have to continually use resources on the same position and what then watch the Giants lose games because Reese only believes WRs and DEs matter.

And how well have Reese's FA OL been to date. Baas broke down Schwartz the same. The Giants can't run a lick and there isn't one guy who looks to be a real true long term lock on the while OL is a huge concern for me. It just shows a bit of myopia. If any of the the top OL are there and can even be Zach Martin you run up and grab him. Now you better hope you get Martin and not Robert Gallery I also think the Cooper love here must be a generational thing because I think there will also be at least one or two defensive players just as good as Cooper and much more in need for the Giants at 9. Maybe the MLB from Miss. Growing up watching Carson and VanPelt then LT we were feared. And D was a HUGE reason for the last 2 SB wins.
Reese repeated it just the other day  
JonC : 1/19/2015 9:45 am : link
when the choice is between a playmaker and a guard (and you could insert a number of positions here), they're going to pick the playmaker and bank on the ability to impact the game most directly.
It  
AcidTest : 1/19/2015 9:45 am : link
will be interesting to see who the Giants pick if Peat and Cooper are still on the board at #9. Reese has said he goes for playmakers, hence Beckham over Martin, but Mara has said they need to fix the OL and "build a wall around Eli."

I'd be fine with Cooper of course, but also Peat, Collins, and even Scherff. All players have warts. Peat didn't have quite the year people expected. He was poor against ND, and Orchard got the best of him. Collins lunges too much. Scherff has issues with lateral mobility. But they still all played very well overall in extremely competitive conferences, and still just kids. The hyper nitpicking of players is commonplace this time of year.

I'd even be OK with Ray or Gregory, but both frankly are too light I think to play DE in the NFL. They seem better suited to OLB in a 3-4, but of course can come off the edge like a terror. It's just that they seem like "tweeners," and #9 is too high for that kind of player.

If I had to pick right now, I'd say Peat or Collins.
I also think Cooper is a bit overrated  
JonC : 1/19/2015 9:47 am : link
but this top 10-15 is looking average at best, he'll go early.
If they're not considering drafting an OT  
BigBlueCane : 1/19/2015 10:07 am : link
at #9 regardless of whether or not that player is a LT or not, they are in fact, idiots.

This OL needs a massive infusion of talent at 3 of the positions to be competitive.

Cane  
JonC : 1/19/2015 10:07 am : link
Save it, put it on UFA threads where it belongs.
Overrated in what way?  
Big Rick in FL : 1/19/2015 11:33 am : link
In 3 seasons 3463 receiving yards and 31 TDs. Went out and had his best season (1737 yards and 16 TDs) this past year with a QB who isn't very good.

For comparison Odell Beckham had a QB who probably had a higher draft grade then Sims until he got hurt. They both played 3 years. Odell had 2305 yards and 12 TDs. With his best season at 1117 and 8 TDs.

He might not turn out as good a Pro as Odell, but no way can you say the guy is overrated. Just like Odell in college Cooper can do basically everything you want from a WR. Except he has been far more productive.
scouts  
area junc : 1/19/2015 11:34 am : link
are projecting collins inside to G
Cooper is a top 10 talent in this crop, it appears  
JonC : 1/19/2015 11:37 am : link
but would not have been last year, for example, imo. I see the production, the polish, but I also see leg issues and not so sure his potential upside is much greater.
Going to be interesting to see if Todd Gurley can show enough prior  
jlukes : 1/19/2015 11:39 am : link
to the draft to take the top RB spot away from Melvin Gordon.

The RB I like for the Giants is Duke Johnson - would love the Giants to snatch him up if he is still there in the 3rd.

Duke would be a late first/early 2nd rounder if he could stay healthy
I strongly prefer Gordon  
JonC : 1/19/2015 11:45 am : link
Gurley's ACL will cinch it.
RE: Good enough isn't good enough  
Jolly_Blue_Giant : 1/19/2015 11:46 am : link
In comment 12100827 JonC said:
Quote:
not at OT at #9 ... they're not picking an OT there unless it's a left tackle, mark my words.


JonC is right. The Giants have a certain methodology they rarely deviate from. The #1 pick that high up is almost always a position they consider premium impact LT,DE,WR,QB.

DT or LB only if they are sky high on his pass rush ability (and those guys are quite rare) a Kalil Mack type or Suh type level. I don't think Shelton quite reaches that level and doesn't have the prototypical height we look for (esp at the #9 pick) .

JonC  
BigBlueCane : 1/19/2015 11:59 am : link
stuff it.

The idiotic notion that you pass on a guard 'just because he's a guard', is why this team continues to suffer through long stretches of being non-competitive.

Stop being afraid of making the safe pick. It usually works out better in the long run.
RE: JonC  
drkenneth : 1/19/2015 12:01 pm : link
In comment 12101155 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
stuff it.

The idiotic notion that you pass on a guard 'just because he's a guard', is why this team continues to suffer through long stretches of being non-competitive.

Stop being afraid of making the safe pick. It usually works out better in the long run.


You heard Reese on WFAN say he'd take a playermaker over a G, right?
I'm not sure  
damdevs : 1/19/2015 12:04 pm : link
how much college football some of you watch...and I mean outside of possibly watching your favorite college team. I watch a ton and working from home most of the time I get to watch all of those damn college football shows on BSPN...everyday...along with the NFL shows.

Amari Cooper was the best college football player in the country this year. The guy was pretty much unstoppable. Even in a so called bad game against OSU he had 9 catches 71 yards and 2 TDs.

I think Copper is the best player in the draft....but the NFL is a QB driven league so those guys will get drafted first.

If Cooper so how slips to us at 9, which I don't think it happens, we better run up to the podium with his name on the card.
and that's why  
BigBlueCane : 1/19/2015 12:05 pm : link
Reese deserves to be fired.

RE: RE: JonC  
JonC : 1/19/2015 12:07 pm : link
In comment 12101158 drkenneth said:
Quote:
In comment 12101155 BigBlueCane said:


Quote:


stuff it.

The idiotic notion that you pass on a guard 'just because he's a guard', is why this team continues to suffer through long stretches of being non-competitive.

Stop being afraid of making the safe pick. It usually works out better in the long run.



You heard Reese on WFAN say he'd take a playermaker over a G, right?


Not only has it been publically stated now, in addition to it being pointed out here for years, it's common sense. You don't reach for positions out of desperation in the draft, you address those urgent needs via UFA.
and then during the draft, if a target is there  
JonC : 1/19/2015 12:11 pm : link
and you want to bolster further, pick him.
The problem  
BigBlueCane : 1/19/2015 12:13 pm : link
is this regime's eye for talent in Free Agency is worse then their drafting records. And their Free Agent signings usually hurt the cap worse IMO.

That's not enough reason  
JonC : 1/19/2015 12:18 pm : link
to jump ship on a philosophy that is both logical and widely viewed as the best way to build a football team across the NFL. I want to optimize return on draft picks, I want the best talent regardless of position.

If the OL situation is that desperate, and I don't disagree it needs a talent infusion, go out in UFA and spend to get the immediate return on investment.


I don't think OL  
Big Rick in FL : 1/19/2015 12:20 pm : link
Is as big a need as everybody thinks. Yes we need a new player, but you don't take a G at 9. Go out and sign Iupati

You got a line of Beatty-Iupati-Richburg-Schwartz-Pugh. That would be a pretty solid line IMO
And again  
BigBlueCane : 1/19/2015 12:22 pm : link
Since Gettlemen left, I think the Giants ability to accurately and fairly evaluate Free Agent signings has gone down hill sharply.

I would rather invest in the draft and trust the coaches to develop rookie players more then relying on veterans at this point.
Iupati  
BigBlueCane : 1/19/2015 12:23 pm : link
has issues in pass blocking and now a concussion history. I would pass on him for both of those reasons.
I'll gladly  
Big Rick in FL : 1/19/2015 12:28 pm : link
Take a guy whose made the Pro Bowl from 2012-2014 and an all pro in there. Where are we going to find a better player? It's not easy to pass block for a QB who is always looking to scramble. I'm sure it would be a much smaller issue with Eli. How many concussions has he had?
Can't put the horse in front of the cart....  
damdevs : 1/19/2015 12:32 pm : link
FA is going to dictate what we do in the draft not the other way around.

This thread is about Rob Rang's BB....
LOL...  
damdevs : 1/19/2015 12:34 pm : link
see what happens when your working from home and trying to do 10 thinkgs at once.

Make that Cart in front of the horse....lol I'm not splitting atoms right now.
The draft is  
JonC : 1/19/2015 12:37 pm : link
historically a bigger crapshoot than veteran UFA signings, they need to up their game.
RE: The draft is  
damdevs : 1/19/2015 12:57 pm : link
In comment 12101241 JonC said:
Quote:
historically a bigger crapshoot than veteran UFA signings, they need to up their game.
Completely agree.

The draft is all about trying to project how well someone will be at the next level. FA's are already known commodities at that level.
NO effing WRs this year, PERIOD.  
Red Dog : 1/19/2015 1:38 pm : link
ANY WR is a waste of a pick at this point. They have a ton of them now - OBJ, Cruz, Randle, Parker, Ogletree, Washington, Harris, Criner, Talley, Jernigan if they want him back, and more. They should be able to find five or six worthwhile ones from what they have now.

But they continue to get their ass beat in the trenches on both sides of the ball. It doesn't matter who they have for receivers if Eli is under heavy pressure, or if they can't stop opponents from scoring virtually at will.

Winning starts up front, and Reese & Co. apparently do not understand that AT ALL. Reese had a directive from ownership to fix the OL last year and didn't do it. Frankly I thought his efforts to do so were a bad joke. How much longer is Reese going to get get a free pass?

Then consider that they have NO Safeties who are worth a shit, except the always-injured Taylor and maybe Behre. Maybe.

The cupboard is bare at LB except for the promising Kennard. Injury-prone retreads and failed draft choices do not make a winning LB corps.

The TEs are poor at best. There is no other way to describe them.

The RB group is thin and there isn't one single complete and proven player in the group except for Jennings who can't stay on the field, and maybe the arguably under-used FB Hynoski.

This team needs serious investment in the OL and the defense with the 8 picks in this draft, and maybe something at TE and/or RB, not yet another WR effing prospect.

For a fairly pedestrian draft....  
Reb8thVA : 1/19/2015 1:46 pm : link
Is talent really going to exceed need that much. I still think at this point OL is going to be where the real value is at #9
RE: Overrated in what way?  
LauderdaleMatty : 1/19/2015 1:56 pm : link
In comment 12101095 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
In 3 seasons 3463 receiving yards and 31 TDs. Went out and had his best season (1737 yards and 16 TDs) this past year with a QB who isn't very good.

For comparison Odell Beckham had a QB who probably had a higher draft grade then Sims until he got hurt. They both played 3 years. Odell had 2305 yards and 12 TDs. With his best season at 1117 and 8 TDs.

He might not turn out as good a Pro as Odell, but no way can you say the guy is overrated. Just like Odell in college Cooper can do basically everything you want from a WR. Except he has been far more productive.


Sure I can. He's over rated "here" as to the need and value to the Giants.. Not over rated. As I said over rated here People have posted the Giants should consider a trade up for him. I keep hearing how this offense needs another WR. Great he was super productive So where lots of guys in college. Heck Keyshaun Johnson was taken a lot higher than Amani Toomer. Could another guy have helped the Jets more at that top spot. Honestly I'm not sure his career was all that much better.

It my opinion that another WR in RD one even if great is a wasted resource when all 5 of our OL are questionable to mediocre When the LBs are easily the worst in the NFL.. There isn't a starting caliber S on the roster. TE meh. Potential hole at DE and DT is light after Hankins long term IF you think a WR in RD one helps great, and you are certainly entitled to have that opinion but it seems insanity to me to use one pif the top two or three picks every year for ones position and I think its the reason why there are holes all over this every year for the last 4

T
The main thing I got from Francesa's interview with Reese is that  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 1/19/2015 4:46 pm : link
he's not really counting on Cruz to return to previous form. It's possible Cruz could recover fully, but the team can't expect that to happen and needs to prepare like it won't.
Rob Rang's Big Board  
johnboyw : 1/21/2015 9:49 am : link
Lots of banter about who the Giants will take at #9. When you look at the players who are likely to be there, almost any of them would potentially fill a need for the Giants. From Scherff (who I say should be the pick if he's there) to Peat to Collins (OT) to Flowers to Shelton to Beasley to Thompson to Collins (S), any of them could help immediately. That said, let's not forget the comments made by both TC and JM concerning the draft. TC said the Giants needed to be able to run the ball and defend the run. Period. Mara said he felt the lines needed to be rebuilt. Both singing out of the same hymnbook. When you also consider that a team that can run the ball effectively will keep it's defense fresh you have to believe that the batting order for #1 and #2 is OL then DL. If Schwartz is healthy, they need one more stud OL to fix that problem. And since they don't really know where they want to play Pugh, the pick will need to be a guy who can play either tackle or guard position, preferably with an attitude. That is Scherff. #1 fallback would be Flowers and #2 fallback would be Collins. Any of the three would give them multiple options on the OL. They can then draft a big DT in round 2 (Davis?) or sign a FA like Knighton.
OL  
Mike in NY : 1/21/2015 9:54 am : link
We could sign someone like Boling or Parnell in Free Agency if Iupati has too many question marks. If you sign Boling then Pugh stays at RT and if you sign Parnell then Pugh moves to OG. If you have someone who can profile as an LT down the road sitting there at #9 you can still take him. If not, you can get a swing OG/OT on Day 2 that would take John Jerry's spot and together with J.D. Walton can serve as your top depth on the OL
RE: JonC  
Mike in NY : 1/21/2015 9:58 am : link
In comment 12101155 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
stuff it.

The idiotic notion that you pass on a guard 'just because he's a guard', is why this team continues to suffer through long stretches of being non-competitive.

Stop being afraid of making the safe pick. It usually works out better in the long run.


We have not been competitive not because we haven't taken enough OL early, but we have gambled on upside rather than taking clean football players which then necessitated yearly high picks at WR and DT when the upside guys did not develop. Part of that is on the scouting department when they took guys who could not possibly fit in our scheme and part of that is on the coaching staff who would rather go with guys like Kevin Ogletree because they have more experience/Special Teams contributions than getting the young guys a chance to go against NFL caliber opposition
Cooper or Beckham  
UConn4523 : 1/21/2015 10:00 am : link
may be there at 9. So tempting...

Double Beckham is just too cool to not be somewhat possible.
DGB  
Mike in NY : 1/21/2015 10:07 am : link
The off field behavior scares the crap out of me. Not to mention that Missouri's scheme did not involve a lot of route running which he would need to show if he is going to transition to the NFL. If Cooper is not there do not forget White and Strong who offer less baggage
I would bet on Jerry bringing in a free agent lineman  
BeerFridge : 1/21/2015 10:09 am : link
and taking "the top rated player in the row" at #9.
pass rush  
area junc : 1/21/2015 10:23 am : link
Regardless of team needs, I think it's clear

a) we have to get a great football player with the #9 pick

b) this draft isnt as good as it was last year

and

c) the *bang* at the top of the draft is at Pass rush Outside Linebacker.

Makes you wonder: would the Giants consider taking true BPA if the BPA was clearly a 34 OLB? I say this with one guy in mind - Vic Beasley. Forget scheme - you want pop at #9? this guy is a great pass rusher. Spagnuolo's #1 thing is rush the passer. He was the first to use Kiwi at OLB, in his 50 fronts. And Reese showed with the Sintim pick he'll take a guy like this. Beasley will put his hand in the dirt on 3rd down. He torched some excellent competition including abusing the monster Oklahoma T's in the Bowl game.

He's the explosive game-breaker athelete on defense ODB was for the offense. Not sure we want to be passing on a pass rusher/edge player of his quality because he may or may not fit our base scheme.
This team needs another weapon.  
drkenneth : 1/21/2015 10:28 am : link
I don't care if it's at WR/TE/RB, but we need a compliment to ODB. As noted, sounds like Reese will move forward as if Cruz is toast, which is the correct move.

Maxx Williams would be real nice.
Pass rusher will be in the mix at #9  
JonC : 1/21/2015 10:35 am : link
but I hope they go with a safe choice there, the tweener option is a big risk for a choice there. I'm looking forward to seeing if Dupree or other 4-3 DEs test well enough to warrant consideration.
I'm down for DE, pass rush LB, WR , or LT  
Coach Mason : 1/21/2015 11:31 am : link
But would prefer the LT if the value is there.
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