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Bleacher Report Mock Draft & The Case for WR at #9

Emil : 1/19/2015 8:48 pm
So bleacher report has released its latest mock draft. Overall I think they tend to default to "need" vs "BPA" which isn't really how teams draft, but they do paint a logical scenario.

They have the Giants taking Brandon Scherff, OT Iowa. A very popular pick lately and endorsed by many on BBI. I do think Scherff will be a solid pro, but I really don't see the Giants using pick #9 on an OT, whose best position is likely OG. I think the OL will be the priority in FA.

What is interesting is they have Amari Cooper going at #8 to the Falcons. Cooper has been "sliding" in recent weeks, not because of any real issues with Cooper, but because the strength at the top of the draft appears to be 3-4 OLB, DT, and of course the two top QBs. This paints a scenario of Cooper possibly going in later half of the top 10 when he is a top 5 talent. If Cooper lasts all the way to #8, I would be very surprised to see the Falcons take him given that they literally have zero playmakers on defense. Cooper is certainly a talented enough WR to make any team ignore a glaring need, but if anyone watched the Falcons this year, they couldn't stop a pop warner offense.

Under the B/R mock, I don't really see the Falcons taking Cooper as they suggest, leaving open the possibility of Cooper being there at #9. If he is, Reese will pounce. I know, WR seems to be the least of the Giants "needs" but our situation at the position isn't as good as you'd think. OBJ is the only proven/dependable commodity at this point. Cruz has to prove he is healthy. And Randle has to show more consistency. Everyone else is just a guy.

Also, considering that the Giants new offense is modeled on Green Bay, take a look at their top 4 WRs.

Nelson
Cobb
Devonte Adams
Jartett Boykin

I would argue that the Giants offense needs a similar set of 4 WRs to truly ignite the passing game. Imagine a top 4 of:

OBJ
Cruz
Cooper
Randle

If the Giants use FA to address the OL issues by brining in a OT and OG, then they can go BPA a pick 9. WR--and more broadly pass catchers--has become the premium position (after QB) in today's NFL. Everyone points to Dallas and how they constructed that OL, but caution, it's going to bite them. Over the next 3-5 years (starting now) Dallas is going to have a hard time affording their OL, QB, RB, and WR, not to mention anyone worth keeping on defense. Having already invested money/premium picks in Beatty, Richburgh, Schwartz, and Pugh, I don't want to see the Giants do the same when their only real hole to fill is LG. You can find a veteran LG that can play without breaking the bank.

I said in a previous post that even if Cooper isn't there, I would still entertain the idea of taking DeVonte Parker, WR Louisville, who is a monster after the catch. B/R has him going at #`12 to the Vikings. I also think his stock will continue to rise.

I have included the link for those interested. Also, check out the last slide. Does anyone know anything about LB Hau'oli Kikaha, from Washington? Described as a guy who plays multiple LB positions.

2015 NFL Mock Draft: Senior Bowl Week Projections - ( New Window )
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I fucking  
JayBinQueens : 1/19/2015 11:58 pm : link
hate slideshow websites
Free Agency WILL NOT influence our first round pick  
SGMen : 1/20/2015 2:18 am : link
We will go for the Best Player Available Regardless of Position. Folks, every unit is one or two injuries away from being decimated. Just look at our secondary this year!

I firmly believe Reese will take the best player on his draft board regardless of position. He always does!
Kevin White  
TMS : 1/20/2015 2:55 am : link
could be another Jody Nelson if you think we want in mimic GB.
If a high end reciever is there at 9  
blueblood'11 : 1/20/2015 7:46 am : link
I can see the Giants taking him. Why not. I don't think it's any great secret the Giants offensive line play got measurably better once Beckham made it onto the field. It's true what someone said earlier. You don't know about Cruz and Randle can go either way. They draft another Beckham like receiver, wow.

A guy like Iupati will be a free agent. The Giants could conceivably go after someone like that who you know can play to bolster the offensive line. Schwartz will be back and they could put the kid they drafted this past year at center where he belongs. John Mara and Jerry Reese both said that's where he will play. And I don't doubt they can get a good quality offensive lineman in the second round also.

I really think free agency is strongly going to shape how they draft. The money is there to sign JPP and at the very least acquire another impact player to add to the defense or the offense.
KWALL  
JonC : 1/20/2015 9:07 am : link
I had the same opinion of Cooper and you're the first person I've read/heard state the same. I see the polish, instincts, ability to run after the catch, but I feel he's closer to a 10-20 talent overall.

Emil, agree completely NYG won't go OL at #9 unless they project the prospect to LT (or RT with the plan of the prospect replacing Beatty soon enough).
Could come down to  
Coach Mason : 1/20/2015 9:26 am : link
what they think of the long term prospect of Beatty at LT. If they aren't high on him then is there someone already on the roster they believe can capably play LT.

If neither of the above scenarios is a positive proposition and they have a highly rated guy at 9 who can play LT there is a strong chance that's the move .

A  
AcidTest : 1/20/2015 9:34 am : link
lot depends of course on what we do in FA, but right now I think it will be La'el Collins or Shelton.
Since White has been mentioned  
Emil : 1/20/2015 9:34 am : link
CBS sports write-up on him. I have not watched a lot of WVU this year, but White certainly sounds like a player that can make an impact at the next level. While this WR class will not have the same number of stars as last year, there is a lot of depth here and if there is one flaw in my argument it is this:

If you believe Cooper is not really a Top 5 talent (I think he absolutely is) then you can get comparable WR talent in round 2. It is very likely someone like Jalen Strong (WR ASU) slips to early round 2 and that guy is a beast. Players like Sammy Coates (who I don't trust to translate to the next level) and Green-Beckham could also slip. Green-Beckham almost certainly. Not to mention a slot WR and KR like Tyler Lockett could be available as late as round 3.


CBS sports - Kevin White WR WVU - ( New Window )
RE: Could come down to  
Emil : 1/20/2015 9:40 am : link
In comment 12102123 Coach Mason said:
Quote:
what they think of the long term prospect of Beatty at LT. If they aren't high on him then is there someone already on the roster they believe can capably play LT.

If neither of the above scenarios is a positive proposition and they have a highly rated guy at 9 who can play LT there is a strong chance that's the move .


I agree that it could come down to that, but I am just not in love with these OTs at the top end of the draft. IMO there is little difference between the guys projected to go in the first and the guys projected to go in the 2nd. I would love the Giants to land a blue goose LT, but I just don't see one yet. The recent Scherff buzz almost makes me laugh because it seems as though a player like Scherff--a very good college OT who projects to RT or OG in the pros--always gets tied to the Giants. Just sounds like Bryan Bulaga all over again to me, and I don't think he has lived up to his 1st round draft status yet.

I am intrigued by some of the OT prospects, Andrus Pete, Ereck Flowers, La'el Collins, just to name a few. But I just don't like any of them at #9. I haven't shut the door on it (like my vote counts right) as the Giants need more beef on the OL, but I have yet to hear a convincing case for one of the OT at #9.
Emil  
Coach Mason : 1/20/2015 9:42 am : link
draft is looking pretty stacked at WR. Not exactly last year but pretty good. Picking high in the second, we have a shot at a good one there if we go elsewhere round 1. Let's not forget Max Williams either though he may not make it to 40 but you never know.
Peat is the only LT at #9, so far, imv  
JonC : 1/20/2015 9:43 am : link
The others all look like RTs or OGs at the next level, imv.
IF a very good WR is there  
mrvax : 1/20/2015 9:45 am : link
I have to agree with Emil, you take him. We don't know how Cruz is doing. Even if Cruz makes it back at 100%, the Giants could always trade either Cruz or the new WR for picks or players if needed.

Buying a FA TE or WR that is very good, will be very expensive. I'd buy the best Oline guy and go BPA with that pick.

It could a be a WR or someone they think will be a playmaker on defense.
RE: Peat is the only LT at #9, so far, imv  
Emil : 1/20/2015 9:47 am : link
In comment 12102150 JonC said:
Quote:
The others all look like RTs or OGs at the next level, imv.


Pete's overall athleticism intrigues me a great deal. I heard some knock his toughness, comparing him unfavorably to Jonathan Martin, another former Stanford OT. We'll have to see what all the pre-draft analysis brings. But if he can shake the toughness rap, I could see him at #9.
Emil  
JonC : 1/20/2015 9:52 am : link
When I read those comments, I revert back to his performance versus UCLA; a big, physical, rugged defense that he was dominant against. I suspect his issue is more a matter of conditioning, but we'll know better by April 30.

RE: Emil  
Emil : 1/20/2015 9:59 am : link
In comment 12102167 JonC said:
Quote:
When I read those comments, I revert back to his performance versus UCLA; a big, physical, rugged defense that he was dominant against. I suspect his issue is more a matter of conditioning, but we'll know better by April 30.


Jon, that is a good point. I really enjoyed that game too. Really enjoy your posts/comments, very reasoned. I better be careful, between you and coach I might get converted to a draft Andrus Pete stance.
Emil  
JonC : 1/20/2015 10:03 am : link
Thank you, I appreciate that. Your posts are always well reasoned and of sound perspective, imv.

In the end, it will be interesting to see how many LTs and WRs are worthy at #9, as it does appear there could be more options for NYG at those positions relative to their other usual premium positions.
I think peope are sleeping on Collins  
Andy in Halifax : 1/20/2015 10:04 am : link
Kid can play anywhere, including Lt imo.
Andy  
JonC : 1/20/2015 10:07 am : link
I know Sy and Phil in LA agree with you ... but will they be worthy of #9 overall?
The problem with your GB comparison  
pjcas18 : 1/20/2015 10:10 am : link
is:

1. Eddie Lacy was the third leading receiver on the team
2. Jarrett Boykin caught 3 passes all year.

Corey Washington caught 5 passes.
Would love to know  
Emil : 1/20/2015 10:11 am : link
what the Giant's scouts are thinking right now. Isn't there a former scout out of Green Bay that posts his breakdown of top prospects every year?
Hadn't realized Sy was onboard with Collins as well.  
Andy in Halifax : 1/20/2015 10:12 am : link
I know bob in tx and I have talked a bit about him. Maybe I'm bullish on the OT's more than I should, but when I guess BPA for #9, three OT's pop out at me: Collins, Peat and Flowers. Peat has the bast tools of the three. Miami is a train wreck, all three of their big prospects will be better pro's imo.
RE: The problem with your GB comparison  
Emil : 1/20/2015 10:13 am : link
In comment 12102204 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
is:

1. Eddie Lacy was the third leading receiver on the team
2. Jarrett Boykin caught 3 passes all year.

Corey Washington caught 5 passes.


Can't argue with that. But I think my overall point is that after our top 3, with Cruz and Randle as legit question marks, the cupboard is potentially dangerously bare at WR for the NYG.
I know Emil  
pjcas18 : 1/20/2015 10:19 am : link
I'm just saying it's hard to suggest GB having 4 receivers means the Giants need 4.

What does stand out though is the drop-off from #1 to #2.

Nelson and Cobb both caught 90+ passes.

Randle was 2nd on the Giants with 70.

if Cruz can return close to what he was he should solve that.

I think they Giants can go WR or not, doesn't matter to me, just not sure the GB personnel is a compelling reason why they need 4 WR's.

RE: I know Emil  
Emil : 1/20/2015 10:25 am : link
In comment 12102225 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
I'm just saying it's hard to suggest GB having 4 receivers means the Giants need 4.

What does stand out though is the drop-off from #1 to #2.

Nelson and Cobb both caught 90+ passes.

Randle was 2nd on the Giants with 70.

if Cruz can return close to what he was he should solve that.

I think they Giants can go WR or not, doesn't matter to me, just not sure the GB personnel is a compelling reason why they need 4 WR's.


Fair point, the numbers certainly support it. I do think GB is certainly trying to develop depth behind the top 2 and those young guys have potential. I love Victor Cruz, have from day 1 when he wore #3. But I am not sold that he can comeback 100%. I think the Giants need to pave the way for an option where Cruz can realistically be the #3 option. If I'm the Giants GM, I the thought of relying on Randle to be #2 keeps me up at night. Not saying he can't do it, but it is by no means a sure thing. Would rather be safe than sorry. Now that may not mean you go WR at #9, but one needs to be added in the top 3 rounds.
RE: RE: Could come down to  
Coach Mason : 1/20/2015 10:36 am : link
In comment 12102142 Emil said:
Quote:


Quote:
I am intrigued by some of the OT prospects, Andrus Pete, Ereck Flowers, La'el Collins, just to name a few. But I just don't like any of them at #9. I haven't shut the door on it (like my vote counts right) as the Giants need more beef on the OL, but I have yet to hear a convincing case for one of the OT at #9.


It's still early and one of these guys could really solidify themselves as a top prospect for LT post-combine. BPA at 40 might end up being a WR or Maxx.
RE: RE: RE: Could come down to  
Emil : 1/20/2015 11:09 am : link
In comment 12102258 Coach Mason said:
Quote:
In comment 12102142 Emil said:


Quote:




Quote:
I am intrigued by some of the OT prospects, Andrus Pete, Ereck Flowers, La'el Collins, just to name a few. But I just don't like any of them at #9. I haven't shut the door on it (like my vote counts right) as the Giants need more beef on the OL, but I have yet to hear a convincing case for one of the OT at #9.



It's still early and one of these guys could really solidify themselves as a top prospect for LT post-combine. BPA at 40 might end up being a WR or Maxx.


Coach I hope so. Would be nice if one of these guys emerges and the Giants could match BPA with a true need. Would be nice. Either way, I do think we'll see a WR in the first three rounds.
Emil, WR in the first few rds is a distinct possibility  
Coach Mason : 1/20/2015 11:39 am : link
Considering as many have said that if we are going to mimic anything resembling a Green Bay attack, we'll need a strong stable of WR's. Draft is strong there too. Pending FA, could see a flip from last year: OL in 1st, Receiver (WR/TE) in 2nd.
RE: Emil, WR in the first few rds is a distinct possibility  
Emil : 1/20/2015 11:57 am : link
In comment 12102396 Coach Mason said:
Quote:
Considering as many have said that if we are going to mimic anything resembling a Green Bay attack, we'll need a strong stable of WR's. Draft is strong there too. Pending FA, could see a flip from last year: OL in 1st, Receiver (WR/TE) in 2nd.


Coach, I think that would be fine so long as one of the OT prospects emerges. I have the highest hope for Pete, but many more knowledgeable than I are high on Collins. I do know this:

The Giants won't spend pick #9 on a guy who is exclusively a RT and a possible OG
Pick #9 will be a difference maker
If pick #9 is an OT, he will be LT with the ability to play other positions.
If pick #9 is a LT, he will have to play RT for at least a year, as cutting Beatty in 2015 makes little sense.
Emil  
JonC : 1/20/2015 12:08 pm : link
well said and hopefully not too much to ask for.
I was channeling my inner Jerry Reese  
Emil : 1/20/2015 12:14 pm : link
So hopefully I have read his mind. I do think the Giants should stick to those points on draft day. Pick #9 is the highest the Giants have picked since 2004. Need to hit a homer that signs a second contract with the team.
I can't see the Giants drafting Green-Beckham that highly  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/20/2015 12:24 pm : link
In terms of between the lines, yeah, he's great, but he's a true knucklehead and even Mizzou fans think he's got Sam Hurd/Dez Bryant/pick your red flag behind the ears.
Emil  
Coach Mason : 1/20/2015 12:28 pm : link
Im with you and Jon. Those 3 scenarios are critical parameters to selecting an OT at 9.
Jon can you shed any light to how the organization views Beatty  
Coach Mason : 1/20/2015 12:36 pm : link
long-term? As discussed, he's basically the only true LT on the team. Do they like him there for the next 3-4 years , perhaps Eli's remaining prime before steep decline?

Cooper - Explosive?  
armstead98 : 1/20/2015 12:43 pm : link
It's interesting that some of you, Jon and Emil, mention his lack of explosiveness as I've had the same thoughts sometimes.

The more I watch of him I think it's just that he's so freaking smooth that he doesn't appear to be moving as fast as he is. I know it's college but check out how he turns the corner on some of his runs and simply blows by defenders who take the wrong angle because they underestimate his speed.

I'm really curious to see how he times and as long as it's not really slow (4.6 or worse) I'm taking him at #9. He's like Beckham in that he runs perfect routes and just gets open. He catches everything around him too. Maybe he's not quite as explosive as Beckham (is anyone?) but I think he's destined to have a great career.

He's a no-brainer pick for me at this point.
Cooper Highlights - ( New Window )
Only thing I've heard is also basically common sense  
JonC : 1/20/2015 12:44 pm : link
As long as he's their best LT, he'll stay. If they can upgrade the position in a manner where they're not reaching in the draft, or spending big UFA dollars, they'll do it.

Same with Pugh, and I think he's been talked about recently because a change is coming, e.g kicking him inside to LG.

Dorial Green-Beckham  
armstead98 : 1/20/2015 12:49 pm : link
Not sure who mentioned him above as the best WR in the draft... I was wondering the same thing this weekend. On paper he's awesome, 6'5, 260, fast, etc. so i see the desire to say he's the next Dez but then I watched him.

He runs horrendous routes. They're sloppy and he's rarely wide open. He usually has to make a play in the air against a DB or they give him the ball on a screen or quick slant. I just don't see the refined skills to get open in the NFL and think he's got huge bust potential, off-field issues aside.

RE: Cooper - Explosive?  
Emil : 1/20/2015 1:25 pm : link
In comment 12102529 armstead98 said:
Quote:
It's interesting that some of you, Jon and Emil, mention his lack of explosiveness as I've had the same thoughts sometimes.

The more I watch of him I think it's just that he's so freaking smooth that he doesn't appear to be moving as fast as he is. I know it's college but check out how he turns the corner on some of his runs and simply blows by defenders who take the wrong angle because they underestimate his speed.

I'm really curious to see how he times and as long as it's not really slow (4.6 or worse) I'm taking him at #9. He's like Beckham in that he runs perfect routes and just gets open. He catches everything around him too. Maybe he's not quite as explosive as Beckham (is anyone?) but I think he's destined to have a great career.

He's a no-brainer pick for me at this point. Cooper Highlights - ( New Window )


Oh, I hope I didn't misspeak somewhere. I never said Cooper wasn't explosive. Some don't think he is, but I agree with you. He is so smooth and effortless that he doesn't look it. Plax never looked explosive either, but he made everything look easy. Cooper is simply a different kind of WR. I'm all for him a #9 if he is there.

Could be a controversial statement, but if Green-Beckham is there in the 2nd, I would seriously consider taking him. Provided I didn't get a WR in round 1.
Jon makes sense  
Coach Mason : 1/20/2015 1:29 pm : link
I do hope an upgrade (if the value is there) is found at 9. It'd be nice to finally have a top LT and would help Eli and the passing game tremendously.
Give me Peat  
JonC : 1/20/2015 1:32 pm : link
and I'm happy. Seriously, I'd wager a DE or WR is in play at that spot ahead of OT, but it's a good position to be in.
Cooper is pretty damn good  
Coach Mason : 1/20/2015 1:33 pm : link
Though I hope an LT who starts at RT or OG is there worth taking , I wouldn't mind him at all. I think he is ready to contribute year 1 and will have an excellent NFL career.
Makes sense  
Coach Mason : 1/20/2015 1:39 pm : link
as we highly value the playmakers. You never know, this could be a 'stars align' year for the LT that has alluded us.

Between the growing list of guys at WR/TE -Dorial Green-Beckham-,Rashad Green,Sammie Coates,Ty Montgomery, Lockett, Jalean Strong, Maxx Williams one of these guys will be available at 40 (while an LT would not).
BB56  
KWALL2 : 1/20/2015 2:25 pm : link
Franklin is an option. He's 6'7" and has RT experience. Carpenter can also play RT.

Another FA OL to watch is Clint Boling from the Bengals.

If the Giants could sign one of these 3 it would go a long way to fixing the team.
Kev  
JonC : 1/20/2015 2:27 pm : link
I agree, three strong options to kick off UFA.
Jon  
KWALL2 : 1/20/2015 2:28 pm : link
IMO, Cooper isn't close to Beckham and its all about the movement. He simply doesn't have the same quickness and explosion.

I'm not a big fan of "polish" when they talk about a WR prospect. I want an explosive player with great hands. And it's also nice to have length.

For me, Cooper has both average size and movement for an NFL starting WR. I really don't like him and think other WRs will be drafted ahead of him.
Jon  
KWALL2 : 1/20/2015 2:31 pm : link
I posted that to BB56. It was the wrong thread.

Before the draft, I'm really hoping to see them sign a FA G at a good value.

As far as WR at #9? I'm all for it but not Cooper.
Kev  
JonC : 1/20/2015 2:37 pm : link
I want to sign a FA RT, and kick Pugh inside. If he can't handle OG, then perhaps he was overdrafted as I suggested he was. The OL must be infused with talent, especially on the edges, imv.

Don't love Cooper at #9 either. I keep reading about WR options at that pick but I don't see them as proper value at this point in time.
If Giants get a guy like Franklin  
Coach Mason : 1/20/2015 3:08 pm : link
They can either kick Pugh inside or maybe even have Franklin play OG. There will be a ton of versatility with the group (except at LT).

I am not down on Pugh though as some are. I don't see his rookie year as a fluke and think he was playing a bit hurt last year. I think he'll end up like a young Diehl, can play anywhere on the line except C and LT in a pinch but not ideal.
I  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2015 4:33 pm : link
believe Boselli and Coughlin remain close to I wonder if the Giants pick Boselli's brain here-

Dane Brugler ‏@dpbrugler 3m3 minutes ago

Tony Boselli spending a good amount of time coaching up Lael Collins 1-on-1. Great example why competing at @seniorbowl worth it for players
0 replies 3 retweets 1 favorite
Could happen... and I get the whole BPA period end of discussion thing  
cdrusnret : 1/20/2015 6:31 pm : link
...but I look at our 2015 Giants and see that new but now familiar 10th ranked offense clicking by the start of the regular season, made better by a few key additions on the O-line, and certainly at WR if Cruz isn't ready. Personally, I don't believe that requires the 9th pick with the best Guards available at the top of the 2nd round, and another good WR class. But that 29th ranked defense earned a DC firing, with the promise of Spags' return making a substantial difference... what is the unspoken expectation for that 2015 turn around? What did Spags tell the front office and TC he'd deliver in 2015 if the draft delivered top tier talent? From 29th to 20th? 15th? Maybe little more than not being swept by division rivals with pro bowl caliber O-linemen and excellent running backs? That D has huge glaring issues at DT, ILB, OLB, and Safety, and there's sure to be talent at 9th who'd step on the field and make an immediate difference to that 30th ranked rush defense lining up against two top 10 rushing offenses twice a season.
cd  
JonC : 1/21/2015 7:43 am : link
Your post/needs will begin to be addressed via UFA, always keep that in mind before putting all your eggs into the draft.
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