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If we go Oline in FA as a top priority:

superspynyg : 1/20/2015 9:01 am
Bleacher report makes a good case for Orlando Franklin.
link - ( New Window )
Like him a lot and think he'd be a great fit  
Eric on Li : 1/20/2015 9:12 am : link
Somewhat similar to the McKenzie signing in terms of age and borderline pro bowl ability, though he's a little bit more versatile of a player. Put him at LG or RT (Pugh at the other spot) and draft a good prospect in the top 3 rounds to provide depth/eventually succeed Beatty or Schwartz and the OL is in a real good place.

Will definitely cost more than Schwartz did last year, but likely won't be a huge budget breaker.
This is the guy  
mrvax : 1/20/2015 9:16 am : link
I've targeted when playing GM for the Giants. It would be nice if the author took a stab at what it would cost. I'm thinking teams may go as high as $8M per for his services.

He'd be perfect. RT experience to challenge Pugh.
If they strongly believe he can play RT  
JonC : 1/20/2015 9:20 am : link
then he's worth it. NYG won't spend that type of money on an OG.
Franklin  
Emil : 1/20/2015 9:20 am : link
Makes a ton of sense. He seems to have Giants OL written all over him.

Still young, is athletic, can play Guard or RT. We know how the Giants like flexibility. He won't be "cheap" but he is not going to expensive either as Guard and RT are not top dollar FA OL slots. Reese may not plan on making a lot of FA moves, but I strongly think OL is the top target in FA.
why was he moved to LG?  
giants#1 : 1/20/2015 9:26 am : link
.
I  
AcidTest : 1/20/2015 9:31 am : link
bet he resigns with Denver. The article talks about the coaching changes in Denver along with the possible retirement of Manning as reasons why Franklin could sign elsewhere. Those seem like reasons why he won't. With all that instability, it seems more likely that Denver would want to hold onto a good building block, especially if they have to start a new QB next year. The Giants will also be competing with other teams for his services, which would prompt a bidding war. I'd like to get Franklin, but think it's more likely he stays in Denver, or ends up with a team that pays him a lot more than the Giants are willing to do.
What is their opinion on Beatty?  
Coach Mason : 1/20/2015 9:35 am : link
Do Giants see him as a mainstay at LT for years to come? If not, who replaces him? They just spent 16 mil on Schwartz who is a OG/RT only. They may consider Franklin and Pugh as OG/RT only. There has been some talk for Pugh as an LT, but that may not be where the team ideally sees him after 2 years of evaluating his ability. If that is the case, there is no ideal long term solution at LT currently on the team.
There is no ideal long term solution at LT currently on the team  
JonC : 1/20/2015 9:40 am : link
Perhaps it gets rectified at #9 in this draft, but the options there appear to be few. Otherwise it continues to be Beatty, who is a serviceable LT in the meantime.
JonC  
Emil : 1/20/2015 9:43 am : link
Nailed it regarding Beatty. An upgrade would be nice, but good LTs are hard to find, so the serviceable Beatty keeps it for one more year.
I like Franklin  
sjnyfan : 1/20/2015 9:45 am : link
He would be my #1 OL target if we go that way. He'll be cheaper than Bulaga or Iupati and more versatile with experience at the two positions with arguably the biggest question marks right now. Sign him with either Michael Roos or Joe Barksdale as the backup/swing tackle. Also add someone in the draft and I think we're in good shape.
Beatty  
AcidTest : 1/20/2015 9:46 am : link
is not a world beater, but he's better than most people here realize. He's also not had good guards playing next to him the last two years. His play should improve if Richburg moves to center, and Pugh, Collins, or A.J. Cann is the new LG next season.
I'd love it  
chris r : 1/20/2015 9:47 am : link
don't want to have to force a win now pick on OL at 9.
Franklin  
Giantfootball025 : 1/20/2015 9:54 am : link
or Bulaga would be my choices for salary cap reasons. The fan in me wants Iupati. This FA is going to be huge for the Giants. They need to get an OL, then draft one in the top 3 rounds.
Jon  
Coach Mason : 1/20/2015 9:55 am : link
Beatty is serviceable short term, but we may not have the opportunity to draft a top tier versatile OL who can play LT at a high level again in the next few years. Eli isn't young anymore and getting more immobile by the minute.

Just seems like LT may be the play if there is a guy they really like. Draft is shaping up nicely at WR and could get one at 40 or Maxx Williams maybe.

.  
chris r : 1/20/2015 9:56 am : link
Mason  
JonC : 1/20/2015 9:58 am : link
I don't disagree but the issue is will there be a LT at #9, and will he be BPA?

I believe Peat can provide a yes to both questions, but so far I don't see another definitive LT in this crop worthy of #9 overall.

Worth noting  
JonC : 1/20/2015 10:05 am : link
a handful of knowledgeable BBIers do believe Scherff and Collins can play LT in the NFL.

Starting Lineman  
Coach Mason : 1/20/2015 10:20 am : link
Didn't include Jerry or Walton b/c they aren't long term solutions and may not be starting next year.

Beatty- LT only, long term answer?
Schwartz- OG/RT only
Pugh- OG/RT mainly, LT in a pinch not ideal
Richburg-C/OG only


So 3 guys who can play Guard and 2 guys who can play RT. 1 at LT who has a bit of injury history and inconsistency.

What happens if Beatty goes down again or plays inconsistent?

Giants likely won't force a pick, but maybe there are enough guys out there in this draft that can play LT at a high level, start in 2015 at OG or RT then move to LT in 2016.

Peat,Collins,Clemmings to name a few. Obviously it comes down to how the team has graded them and their final grade post combine.

With all that said, when they do a full positional and roster analysis a player to groom for LT could be very high on the list.


Having Beatty doesn't preclude getting this guy.  
David B. : 1/20/2015 10:24 am : link
You can't have too many quality OLs.

As for resigning with Denver, if a team offers him more money, he'll go. It's always about the money.
RE: Mason  
Coach Mason : 1/20/2015 10:26 am : link
In comment 12102182 JonC said:
Quote:
I don't disagree but the issue is will there be a LT at #9, and will he be BPA?

I believe Peat can provide a yes to both questions, but so far I don't see another definitive LT in this crop worthy of #9 overall.


Jon what do you think of Collins or Clemmings?

The Giants need to decide where they want to put Pugh.  
Big Blue Blogger : 1/20/2015 10:28 am : link
If RT is his best position, leave him there and leave him alone. If he's better suited to guard, find a right tackle (Franklin, Derek Newton, whoever). The worst idea, IMO, is to have him "compete" with another versatile right tackle and then move the loser to guard. All that gets you is an interior line composed of guys who might be better at other positions. That includes Schwartz, or possibly even Richburg if he somehow ends up playing guard again.

Versatility is nice; excellence is better. Kareem McKenzie wasn't versatile. He was a f*cking right tackle.
Mason  
JonC : 1/20/2015 10:39 am : link
I haven't gotten around to watching Clemmings yet. He's a conversion project, so a team is taking a risk on him. I've watched Collins for a bit, he looks best suited to RT to my eye but will watch more as the draft cut-ups are more efficient timewise.
I saw that  
Bake54 : 1/20/2015 10:55 am : link
He would be a great get for the Giants. Then in the draft they can go DT, S or WR in the 1st round, then OL or TE in the 2nd round.
Beatty is 30 or pushing 30, rather prime years for an OL..  
Big Blue '56 : 1/20/2015 10:56 am : link
If he remains healthy he can be serviceable..You draft an OLT and replace Beatty, you're looking at the OLT(if he performs as well as expected when drafted) leaving in 4 years anyway unless the Giants can extend him earlier or capitulate to the huge bucks a star OLT would command..

The days of drafting a franchise player for the "next 10 years" are over
a franchise left tackle is worth the dollars  
JonC : 1/20/2015 11:01 am : link
They would spend to keep him, more than likely, given its a premium position.
Depends on how one defines a franchise OLT.  
Big Blue '56 : 1/20/2015 11:06 am : link
If he's a Boselli, Ogden, Munoz, Jones, Thomas, then absolutely.. If not, then no..Are the guys currently talked about(Peat, Scharff, etc) in their class? If not, then I don't ever see the Giants paying huge bucks to an OLT that is NOT in their class
You're listing HOF players  
JonC : 1/20/2015 11:09 am : link
not every franchise LT is a HOFer, in fact you're probably limiting yourself to less than 1% of prospects.

RE: You're listing HOF players  
Emil : 1/20/2015 11:11 am : link
In comment 12102328 JonC said:
Quote:
not every franchise LT is a HOFer, in fact you're probably limiting yourself to less than 1% of prospects.


Yeah, not like every franchise LT is Jonathan Ogden...but if we could clone him that would be great.
PFF has  
Pete in MD : 1/20/2015 11:11 am : link
him as their top UFA OG too. He had a +12 overall rating this season.
Given the above  
JonC : 1/20/2015 11:12 am : link
you're unlikely drafting a player of that caliber, and they would be paid accordingly. e.g, you're not forced to hand 6/$100M+ to an Ogden.
Perhaps,  
Big Blue '56 : 1/20/2015 11:18 am : link
but if they are not or more importantly do not develop into a FT, the Giants would not re-sign these guys to mega contracts..Beatty type of contract(or somewhat higher, relative to the times) sure..Huge dollars? No, they've never done that..And they won't for another position, JPP's, if his demands are near Watt money..

Other than QB, have the Giants EVER paid franchise money to any player as other teams are swift to do? No, they'll either re-do a contract early as they did with Osi, Tuck, Diehl or any player amenable to that or, as with Griffin, Cofield, LinJo, etc let them walk..There would have been other teams easily willing to pay Cruz franchise money(for a WR, that is), but the Giants would have let him walk in that scenario..

To be clear, I am not comparing any of the above to a franchise OLT, just pointing to the willingness(the m.o.) of the Giants to let these so-called franchise type players walk..
Let them walk in lieu  
Big Blue '56 : 1/20/2015 11:19 am : link
of paying franchise megabucks, that is
RE: Beatty  
Cam in MO : 1/20/2015 11:24 am : link
In comment 12102158 AcidTest said:
Quote:
is not a world beater, but he's better than most people here realize. He's also not had good guards playing next to him the last two years. His play should improve if Richburg moves to center, and Pugh, Collins, or A.J. Cann is the new LG next season.


He's better than DD was (not counting '13) at LT, IMO. Biggest difference in overall line play is that for most of his time at LT, DD had an awesome LG next to him.

Ok, I understand your core point now  
JonC : 1/20/2015 11:24 am : link
But, none of those players, with the possible exception of JPP are top dollar franchise players either, so it's not exactly apples to apples comparison.

I contend that they would spend the big dollars on a franchise LT, WR, CB, or DE, along with QB. They would certainly try to not spend bidding-against-the-world dollars, but you have to spend accordingly with your talent.


Staley,Clady, even Tyron Smith  
Coach Mason : 1/20/2015 11:27 am : link
A couple of these guys may end up close to that level. That is good enough at 9 considering it would be a sizeable jump to Beatty and would be at a cheaper price point too.

We may be much better than 6-10 next year, so the opportunity to draft an LT may not be there . Again, this comes down how the team views Beatty and the draft. Are they looking to upgrade there or at least have insurance due to his inconsistency,injury history ,salary?

Mara's was a little less outspoken this year vs. last year. But he still made it a point to say the OL needs upgrading. We have no backup LT . Going for a Lineman that projects well to LT just makes the most sense if the value is there.
Fair enough..  
Big Blue '56 : 1/20/2015 11:27 am : link
Off this topic, money-wise, You'd be fine with an OT at 9 if that's the BPA route the Giants choose?
I'm sure Peat could be a good RT  
chris r : 1/20/2015 11:31 am : link
I think all but the most finesse LTs are capable of playing RT well, given that LT is the position requiring the most talent.

If you think Peat has elite LT ability, you draft him, play him at RT for a few years and then slide him over to LT when Beatty's contract is up.
RE: I'm sure Peat could be a good RT  
Coach Mason : 1/20/2015 11:34 am : link
In comment 12102380 chris r said:
Quote:
I think all but the most finesse LTs are capable of playing RT well, given that LT is the position requiring the most talent.

If you think Peat has elite LT ability, you draft him, play him at RT for a few years and then slide him over to LT when Beatty's contract is up.


Or in 2016 when I think the cap hit for letting him go would be less.
BB56  
JonC : 1/20/2015 11:40 am : link
Yes, definitely, said player could be a significant upgrade at LT (or interim RT) pretty quickly.
As far as the OL goes,  
Doomster : 1/20/2015 11:49 am : link
You can't fix every position.....you start with your weakest spots......

You have to hope that Richburg can play better than Walton....everyone just ASSUMES this......

You better hope that Schwartz can play RG a hell of a lot better than he played LG, before he got hurt....

You better hope that elbow was the main reason for Pugh's drop in play.....

You better hope that Beatty can play at the same level, or hopefully better, next season.....

That fifth guy has to come from FAcy, and step right in without missing a beat...you draft for the future, but no more projects....

We need depth, depth, depth in this OL...

As I said before, this line could possibly have 4 new players in starting positions next year....so as far as continuity goes, it's back to square one....
If they sign  
old man : 1/20/2015 11:52 am : link
a FA starter for OL they will still need to draft 1; if they sign 2(Jerry and Walton replacements; not sure about GS) they can go D at #9.
I still want an OL at #9.
Speaking of Beatty  
mrvax : 1/21/2015 7:41 am : link
I see him as good at pass protect but he needs to step up his game with run blocking. I just wonder of that can be coached up or will he never improve there?
Run blocking  
JonC : 1/21/2015 8:20 am : link
Requires physicality, power, technique, and want-to ... Beatty just doesn't have all of those traits in spades. Approaching 30, I don't expect him to improve drastically but hope he can get better.
RE: Beatty is 30 or pushing 30, rather prime years for an OL..  
LauderdaleMatty : 1/21/2015 8:31 am : link
In comment 12102300 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
If he remains healthy he can be serviceable..You draft an OLT and replace Beatty, you're looking at the OLT(if he performs as well as expected when drafted) leaving in 4 years anyway unless the Giants can extend him earlier or capitulate to the huge bucks a star OLT would command..

The days of drafting a franchise player for the "next 10 years" are over


I'm sorry but just don't agree that 30 is prime years for tackles. Most tackles dart to decline right about now. He's mesiocre at best. His guarantee and the the fact that he's proably the only LT on the whole roster made him a lock to be there last year and this year. I don't think its a coincidence that ever since he's been a starter the run game sucks. He Went down DD moves to LOT Giants go on a run and win the SB as the running game got much better the last time there was another guy at that spot.

He will start at LT next year but at 9 unless there's a stud there at another position of need they need to look long at hard at T in rd 1 or passing on one in rd 2.

For info sake Munoz and Bocelli two of the best the last 15-20 years were both out of the league by 32. Michael Roos who was the LT on Tenn who is viewed similarly as Beatty in $$ and ability. Tenn grabbed Lewin as Roos was 32. Didn't make it through the season and now Lewin is going to be their LT.

This OL has played better at times in pass oro but how much of thatbiangetting the ball out quicker. There's a reason the run game blows and while it's no all on Beatty as he was hardly the worst he's never going to be better than he is now. avwrage at best.

With questions about Pugh now how do the Giants ignore finding a guy who may need to okay sooner than later.
It's an excellent time to put Beatty's replacement in the pipeline  
JonC : 1/21/2015 8:51 am : link
provided the fit/value is there.
RE: It's an excellent time to put Beatty's replacement in the pipeline  
Coach Mason : 1/21/2015 11:33 am : link
In comment 12103511 JonC said:
Quote:
provided the fit/value is there.


Interested to see the combine and senior bowl performances for some of these LT prospects.
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