If our BPA at 9 isn't an OL, are there sufficient potential

but generally you can find starters at any OL position, though your quality drops accordingly, especially if you're trying to find a LT after Round 1.

If they don't go OT at #9, then you're likely looking at projected RT or OG in the 2nd, etc.

Don't believe me, look at pass drafts and see how many now starting offensive lineman were drafted in round four or later. A good place for the Giants to start is with salaries and next sign Mike Iupati. If the Giants do that then they won't have to worry about using their first round pick on a offensive lineman. Fanspeak's mock draft I did...

R1. DT, DANNY SHELTON. WASHINGTON. 88 Tackles this season best run stopping DT in college, that's work for me.

R2. DE/DT, ARIK ARMSTEAD. OREGON. Leftend for the Giants.

R3. OLB/DE, HAUOLI KIKAHA. WASHINGTON. Strongside linebacker for the Giants. He played the strongside at Washington why not for the Giants.

R4. OT, CEDRIC OGBUEHI. TEXAS A&M. Sure the only reason why Ogbuehi is here is because of a torned ACL but still a great pick and worth the wait for the injure.

R5. TE, JESSE JAMES. PENN STATE. More of an urgent need pick and hoping James will work out.

R6. ILB, BEN HEENEY. KANSAS. Just one of those player that you can regret not drafting.

R7. FS, ADRIAN AMOS. PENN STATE. A need pick, a good pick?

R7. OT, Jamon Brown. Louisville. You will thank me later, one of the most underrated OT in this draft, only concern is his weight.

regarding armstead- love the larger DE's.

question, out of the larger DE's this year, why Armstead? there seems to be a bunch of them, have not really looked, what made this player jump out at you?

I've not looked into this year's OL crop in enough detail to comment.

However, there seems to be two major approaches (and a lot of variations within them) that have worked:

1) Build an OL with a lot of high round draft picks (see 1990 Giants, 2014 Cowboys).

2) Build an OL with a mix of mid priced FAs and low round picks (see 2007 Giants).

The 2007 line had Diehl (7th rounder?), Seubert (UDFA?), O'Hara (FA), Snee (2nd rounder) and Mackenzie (FA). The 2007 line was a bargain / deal (pun intended).

The 1989/1990 line had Jumbo (2nd rounder), Roberts (1st round OT converted to guard?), Oates (FA), Moore (1st round), Riesenberg (6th round?).

Having a high quality OL is very important, especially as Eli enters the latter phase of his career. I think we need to find a way to pick OL in the 1st or 2nd round.

The link below is handy to see what has worked and what hasn't.

Pro Football Reference Starting Teams - NYG - ( New Window )

1. DT
2. DE/DT tweener for left end
3. LB (or OG?)
4 (OT? or OG?)

etc

A few names I've been giving very positive recviews on (outside of round 1)

GUARDS

Arie Kouandijo - Alabama - 6'5/315

My top graded G in the class

Josue Matias - Florida State - 6'6/325

Elite level tools and physical package. BUT I think he could be a GREAT right tackle.

Laken Tomlinson - Duke - 6'3/325

Typical frame and style of play. Maybe a RG-only type.

Jamil Douglas - Arizona State - 6'4/305

Played LT in 2014. Has great ability and a physical nature.

*******

OFFENSIVE TACKLES

Ty Sambrailo - Colorado State - 6'5/315

Smooth operator. Needs a year of weight training but could be a year 2 or 3 starter at LT in this league. Pretty confident in that.

Jake FIsher - Oregon - 6'6/299

May need a year of weight gain BUT he plays a violent as anyone. I think he is a year one starter.

Daryl Williams - Oklahoma - 6'6/335

RT only type. Another Phil Loadholt, who I loved coming out a few years ago.

.

In comment 12102492 Sy'56 said:

Quote:

A few names I've been giving very positive recviews on (outside of round 1) GUARDS Arie Kouandijo - Alabama - 6'5/315 My top graded G in the class Josue Matias - Florida State - 6'6/325 Elite level tools and physical package. BUT I think he could be a GREAT right tackle. Laken Tomlinson - Duke - 6'3/325 Typical frame and style of play. Maybe a RG-only type. Jamil Douglas - Arizona State - 6'4/305 Played LT in 2014. Has great ability and a physical nature. ******* OFFENSIVE TACKLES Ty Sambrailo - Colorado State - 6'5/315 Smooth operator. Needs a year of weight training but could be a year 2 or 3 starter at LT in this league. Pretty confident in that. Jake FIsher - Oregon - 6'6/299 May need a year of weight gain BUT he plays a violent as anyone. I think he is a year one starter. Daryl Williams - Oklahoma - 6'6/335 RT only type. Another Phil Loadholt, who I loved coming out a few years ago.

thanks Sy. Love this description:

"Jake FIsher - Oregon - 6'6/299

May need a year of weight gain BUT he plays a violent as anyone. I think he is a year one starter.

and that might include the supposed 3/4 DEs as well as any DTs that have enough body control or quicks?

or, is that not your cup of tea?

So this Matias with elite skills and ability to play ORT, wouldn't that fit us to a T, assuming he has all the requisite intangibles?

In comment 12102500 idiotsavant said:

Quote:

and that might include the supposed 3/4 DEs as well as any DTs that have enough body control or quicks? or, is that not your cup of tea?

Few names:

Alvin Dupree - Kentucky

Darkhorse candidate for #9 overall. He is really explosive and has shown plenty of skill and functional strength.

Arik Armstead - Oregon

Rare size/power/foot speed combination. Fought through an ankle injury in 2014. I think he has more upside than Leonard Williams.

Owamagbe Odighizuwa - UCLA

Looks like an elite guy on a lot of plays. Production wasn't there but he was disruptive in every game I saw.

Markus Golden - Missouri

Violent and strong. Low pad level and incredible hustle.

Henry Anderson - Stanford

JJ Watt type style....possibly even better movement off the edge.

We can't risk another season with this OL or hoping to find a starter in the draft. I think they must find a quality NFL starter in free agency.

Carpenter from SEA is a massive OG coming off his rookie deal. Sea has a lot of players to sign. He may be available. Giants need a guaranteed producer on the line. Carpenter is only 26. It would be a great signing to start FA.

In comment 12102515 Big Blue '56 said:

Quote:

So this Matias with elite skills and ability to play ORT, wouldn't that fit us to a T, assuming he has all the requisite intangibles?

I believe so. I think he may be more developmental than some people want. Not saying he can't handle the NFL speed/power right away, but if he actually did make a position change it would take at least a year. These rookies need to be able to play multiple spots anyway.

Matias is a local kid, too.

And that gets me thinking...in a perfect world NYG finds a Zack Martin type....in that he comes in a starts every game while performing at an All Pro level. That's unlikely. I think NYG should go hard after a starting OL in free agency, and find backups in the draft. Guys that can replace the Mosleys and Brewers and Browns...ugh. If they win a job year one, awesome. But I wouldn't mind spending early picks on OL that don't play right away.

counting on a draft pick (outside 9) to be a starter. We have one hole on the OL. Plug it in FA, draft some OL depth and move one. Lets not role the dice on a draft pick and waste another year of Eli, please.

.

...

In comment 12102535 KWALL2 said:

Quote:

We can't risk another season with this OL or hoping to find a starter in the draft. I think they must find a quality NFL starter in free agency. Carpenter from SEA is a massive OG coming off his rookie deal. Sea has a lot of players to sign. He may be available. Giants need a guaranteed producer on the line. Carpenter is only 26. It would be a great signing to start FA.

What about Franklin?

'meh ' (not so sure) for that high (2 in chiefs mock)

looking at Edwards and Buckner vids now as value players in whichever round.

Edwards has a lot of hustle and more aa than people may think.

Buckner, not sure, flashes very nice low moves and also power at times.

lemme see your named players for a bit

however, last year mocked Stanford Ben gardner 3/4 DE for us as a DE.

postulated as a UDFA drafted by Cowboys in (6 or 7?) and injured in camp, so we dunno.

only a 7th round OT to possibly play this year and an injured OT that definately wouldnt play this year and would have a weakened knee going forward no thanx

they have bigger weakness at OT,OG,DE,S,LB and even WR as insurance against cruz not fully recovering than a DT in round 1

i hope they fix the LT or RT spot in round 1 allowing pugh to move back inside to OG thereby upgrading 2 spots with 1 pick
i would like another OG somewhere in 3-5 rounds to finish the OL rebuild this year

in the second take the best DE available to play opposite JPP and round out the draft with help at LB,S,WR and a TE and i would rate the need in the above order

Quote:

The 2007 line had Diehl (7th rounder?), Seubert (UDFA?), O'Hara (FA), Snee (2nd rounder) and Mackenzie (FA). The 2007 line was a bargain / deal (pun intended).

Diehl was a 5th rounder, Snee was the 34th pick in the draft, and McKenzie was a high priced free agent, signing a 7 year deal worth $42M that made him the highest paid ORT in the league.

In comment 12102596 msh said:

Quote:

only a 7th round OT to possibly play this year and an injured OT that definately wouldnt play this year and would have a weakened knee going forward no thanx they have bigger weakness at OT,OG,DE,S,LB and even WR as insurance against cruz not fully recovering than a DT in round 1 i hope they fix the LT or RT spot in round 1 allowing pugh to move back inside to OG thereby upgrading 2 spots with 1 pick i would like another OG somewhere in 3-5 rounds to finish the OL rebuild this year in the second take the best DE available to play opposite JPP and round out the draft with help at LB,S,WR and a TE and i would rate the need in the above order

I agree we need at least two upgrades on the o-line. Pick one good starter in FA and another with the 9th pick. With only one upgrade this line is sunk when Schwartz and/or Beatty go down with injury by week 2. And with this we still need to pray that Richburgh is a solid Center.

It comes down to how badly they want a guy with LT potential. They already have 3 guys that can play OG, 2 that can play RT but 1 that is strictly LT but has some concerns.

Will the Giants roll the dice with Beatty long term? Or do they want to bring in another guy they can groom at LT, be additional insurance at that spot while playing another position until Beatty is out. Eli's clock is ticking.

I posted this on the wrong thread. Here is my reply:

ranklin is an option. He's 6'7" and has RT experience. Carpenter can also play RT.

Another FA OL to watch is Clint Boling from the Bengals.

If the Giants could sign one of these 3 it would go a long way to fixing the team.

is that this brain trust can and WILL talk themselves out of an OL pick in any round by telling themselves they can get a quality player 'later'.

And they'll keep doing it until round 6 or so, when they panic and reach for some dud because he's the last guy they 'think' can play.

It's what they do.

In comment 12102808 BigBlueCane said:

Quote:

is that this brain trust can and WILL talk themselves out of an OL pick in any round by telling themselves they can get a quality player 'later'. And they'll keep doing it until round 6 or so, when they panic and reach for some dud because he's the last guy they 'think' can play. It's what they do.

Mara wants OL and last two years we spent a 1st and 2nd on one. Chances are it will be addressed.

he better be at least an All-Pro performer at tackle.

Or a Hall of Famer at guard.

This is a draft with our great seasonal success where the words needs one or two years to develop cannot be heard. Every player taken in this daft should be the BPA with the ability to start provide real competition from day one or by mid season. They have so many positions of need and lack of talent that drafting at 8-10 each round has to fill this roster out and provide real talent for the future.

These guys also need to be on the field not bystanders for a year. If the strength of this draft is OL, DL, WR & RB then they have to get the BPA from a draft that is very good but not great. If you look at that list its almost exactly some of the major areas of need for this team. Some would say we have only one position without worry maybe QB but every other position on this team could use an upgrade to some degree.

is obviously the most important part of the drafting equation, but as the cliche goes, you can't study heart..

Whatever Pete Carroll and his staff are doing with the lesser rounders and UDFAs, I want some of it here..He seems to find the hungry college players, the ones working their butt off to prove their worth..To date, this has worked quite well, imo