Chris Mortensen & #8207;3 minutes ago
NFL has found that 11 of the Patriots footballs used in Sunday’s AFC title game were under-inflated by 2 lbs each, per league sources.
There are only 2 QB's (one of them actually admitted he bribed people to doctor the balls for a SB, but that was an advantage for both QB's since it involved extra scuffing of the 100 balls used) who have claimed to fiddle the balls. The other question is while others may have done this, have any done it to the level of 2 lbs per square inch?
Did you miss the article about Eli doctoring balls?
I think there would be a massive dropoff in the "this is a big deal" crowd and a spike in the "it's not a big deal" crowd if that were the case.
No doubt in my mind.
Interesting question and i am sure some would move their stance. I would not be as vocal about it, but i would be more disappointed about them doing it. I keep coming back to this claim of everyone doing it. I have yet to see everyone claiming they do it, only 2 so far
They had to institute the K Balls because teams were constantly fucking around with balls. That is the exact reason they did that.
That happened back in 1998 for balls utilized for kicking, i'm talking about teams fucking with the every down balls
There are only 2 QB's (one of them actually admitted he bribed people to doctor the balls for a SB, but that was an advantage for both QB's since it involved extra scuffing of the 100 balls used) who have claimed to fiddle the balls. The other question is while others may have done this, have any done it to the level of 2 lbs per square inch?
Did you miss the article about Eli doctoring balls?
Yeah i must have, you have a link to it? The article the Times published back in 2013 (i think) involved practice balls and how the staff requires a couple weeks to get them right for him. Game balls are delivered by the manufacturer just before gametime
so you think Eli uses scuffed up balls for practice Â
Quote:
That happened back in 1998 for balls utilized for kicking, i'm talking about teams fucking with the every down balls
Where there K balls before the rule change? If every team does doctor the balls in so many different ways to their QBs liking why would you question that some/all stray over some strange line in the sand, ie ... pressure?
RE: so you think Eli uses scuffed up balls for practice Â
Quote:
That happened back in 1998 for balls utilized for kicking, i'm talking about teams fucking with the every down balls
Where there K balls before the rule change? If every team does doctor the balls in so many different ways to their QBs liking why would you question that some/all stray over some strange line in the sand, ie ... pressure?
From what i can tell, the issue that created the rule change to the K-Balls in 1998 had to deal with Kickers messing with the balls, not QBs
Matt Leinart 11 minutes ago
Every team tampers with the footballs. Ask any Qb In the league, this is ridiculous!!
And the league allows it to a degree, you can adjust the pressure within set parameters, scuff it, etc...The question is if they doctor them past the specified rules. Looks like the Colts did not do so, so that somewhat disproves the "everyone does it" claim with regards to violating the specified rules
Matt Leinart 11 minutes ago
Every team tampers with the footballs. Ask any Qb In the league, this is ridiculous!!
And the league allows it to a degree, you can adjust the pressure within set parameters, scuff it, etc...The question is if they doctor them past the specified rules. Looks like the Colts did not do so, so that somewhat disproves the "everyone does it" claim with regards to violating the specified rules
Actually, it just proves the Colts did not reduce the air pressure in this particular game. Says nothing about other games this season or doctoring the ball in other ways.
Matt Leinart 11 minutes ago
Every team tampers with the footballs. Ask any Qb In the league, this is ridiculous!!
And the league allows it to a degree, you can adjust the pressure within set parameters, scuff it, etc...The question is if they doctor them past the specified rules. Looks like the Colts did not do so, so that somewhat disproves the "everyone does it" claim with regards to violating the specified rules
Actually, it just proves the Colts did not reduce the air pressure in this particular game. Says nothing about other games this season or doctoring the ball in other ways.
So they decided this game was not important enough to do it? A rainy cold game where doctored balls would help? Just do it for the less important games, not the ones that could help you get to the SB?...Ok then..
Does it. I just read an article about Aaron Rodgers liking the ball as pumped up as possible. Plus the Colts footballs were fine. So everybody bringing up how the Pats shouldn't get penalized because every team does it is just flat out wrong.
The Patriots were cheating. It's the 2nd time they have been caught. It probably didn't effect the game, but they should face serious penalty. If Richard Sherman failed a drug test in 2011 for performance enhancing drugs and then failed one this week he wouldn't be playing in the Super Bowl. Everybody would be saying he is a POS and that he's cheating. This is essentially the same thing except a failed PED test is effecting one player. The shit that the Pats have been caught doing effects entire games.
Quote:
That happened back in 1998 for balls utilized for kicking, i'm talking about teams fucking with the every down balls
Where there K balls before the rule change? If every team does doctor the balls in so many different ways to their QBs liking why would you question that some/all stray over some strange line in the sand, ie ... pressure?
From what i can tell, the issue that created the rule change to the K-Balls in 1998 had to deal with Kickers messing with the balls, not QBs
What the hell is the difference? It shows how common it was for balls to be altered. The next step is that all balls will now be regulated full time.
Quote:
That happened back in 1998 for balls utilized for kicking, i'm talking about teams fucking with the every down balls
Where there K balls before the rule change? If every team does doctor the balls in so many different ways to their QBs liking why would you question that some/all stray over some strange line in the sand, ie ... pressure?
From what i can tell, the issue that created the rule change to the K-Balls in 1998 had to deal with Kickers messing with the balls, not QBs
What the hell is the difference? It shows how common it was for balls to be altered. The next step is that all balls will now be regulated full time.
Yeah 16 years ago it shows it. Has nothing to do with the current system of how the game balls are utilized. Granted 16 years ago the Kickers doctored balls, not arguing that point. Has nothing to do with what occurred on Sunday
for cheating. It was an obvious advantage and a fine doesn't cut it. The game was 45-7. A ball that was easier to catch, easier to throw, easier to palm while running.
If the proper punishment isn't enforced by Goodell this will send the message you can cheat in the playoffs pay a fine which you would happily pay to win the Superbowl. What's a fine or loss of a draft pick compared to getting in the big game.
There are only 2 QB's (one of them actually admitted he bribed people to doctor the balls for a SB, but that was an advantage for both QB's since it involved extra scuffing of the 100 balls used) who have claimed to fiddle the balls. The other question is while others may have done this, have any done it to the level of 2 lbs per square inch?
PFT, in part ...
The folks at SportsScience addressed this issue in 2010. A ball exposed to 10-degree temperatures for an hour, the pressure drops from 13.5 PSI to 11 PSI.
Of course, that doesn’t fully account for a drop from 12.5 PSI to 10.5 PSI in 51-degree weather for 90 minutes or so. But it proves that, when it’s cold, the pressure inside a football drops.
In this specific situation, it could be that some pressure was removed from the balls, and that the 51-degree temperature did the rest. Regardless, when the mercury drops, footballs naturally deflate, at least a little. Link - ( New Window )
Its called Guy-Lussac's Law
P = p(T/t) constant volume and amount of gas, T in
What temperature would lead to a drop of pressure from 13.5 to 11.5?
t = (273+50)*11.5/113.5
RE: IMHO the game should be played over or they should be disqualified Â
for cheating. It was an obvious advantage and a fine doesn't cut it. The game was 45-7. A ball that was easier to catch, easier to throw, easier to palm while running.
If the proper punishment isn't enforced by Goodell this will send the message you can cheat in the playoffs pay a fine which you would happily pay to win the Superbowl. What's a fine or loss of a draft pick compared to getting in the big game.
Stop...
RE: IMHO the game should be played over or they should be disqualified Â
for cheating. It was an obvious advantage and a fine doesn't cut it. The game was 45-7. A ball that was easier to catch, easier to throw, easier to palm while running.
If the proper punishment isn't enforced by Goodell this will send the message you can cheat in the playoffs pay a fine which you would happily pay to win the Superbowl. What's a fine or loss of a draft pick compared to getting in the big game.
Sources told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter on Wednesday that the Colts had concerns about underinflated balls after their regular-season game against the visiting Patriots on Nov. 16.
During that game, Colts safety Mike Adams twice intercepted Tom Brady and gave the balls to the Colts' equipment manager to save -- and both times there were concerns about the balls feeling underinflated, sources told Schefter.
Those sources said the Colts raised concerns to the league, which was aware of the issue going into this weekend's AFC title game.
There are only 2 QB's (one of them actually admitted he bribed people to doctor the balls for a SB, but that was an advantage for both QB's since it involved extra scuffing of the 100 balls used) who have claimed to fiddle the balls. The other question is while others may have done this, have any done it to the level of 2 lbs per square inch?
PFT, in part ...
The folks at SportsScience addressed this issue in 2010. A ball exposed to 10-degree temperatures for an hour, the pressure drops from 13.5 PSI to 11 PSI.
Of course, that doesn’t fully account for a drop from 12.5 PSI to 10.5 PSI in 51-degree weather for 90 minutes or so. But it proves that, when it’s cold, the pressure inside a football drops.
In this specific situation, it could be that some pressure was removed from the balls, and that the 51-degree temperature did the rest. Regardless, when the mercury drops, footballs naturally deflate, at least a little. Link - ( New Window )
Its called Guy-Lussac's Law
P = p(T/t) constant volume and amount of gas, T in
What temperature would lead to a drop of pressure from 13.5 to 11.5?
t = (273+50)*11.5/113.5
Sphinx posted above that the NFL did a test and found that cold air did indeed drop pressure. I could see this if it was a small amount under the rules, but 2 lbs of lost pressure due to weather does not fit that equation. Also i keep coming back to the 12th ball not having the 2 lb drop
for cheating. It was an obvious advantage and a fine doesn't cut it. The game was 45-7. A ball that was easier to catch, easier to throw, easier to palm while running.
If the proper punishment isn't enforced by Goodell this will send the message you can cheat in the playoffs pay a fine which you would happily pay to win the Superbowl. What's a fine or loss of a draft pick compared to getting in the big game.
This is idiotic.
Yeah, the under-inflated balls did not cause the Colts to lose by 38 points. It was not the deciding factor in that win. Let the SB be played, give the punishment out (if there is any) after the season
why is the European Central Bank getting involved (per Bloomberg)? Â
Actually 2 degrees Kelvin (273K = 0C = 32F) but props to you for bringing up Gay-Lussac's law. That being said, GL's law wouldn't have accounted for nearly the amount of pressure decrease we saw because the temperature wasn't nearly cold enough. The Pats definitely cheated, again
There are only 2 QB's (one of them actually admitted he bribed people to doctor the balls for a SB, but that was an advantage for both QB's since it involved extra scuffing of the 100 balls used) who have claimed to fiddle the balls. The other question is while others may have done this, have any done it to the level of 2 lbs per square inch?
PFT, in part ...
The folks at SportsScience addressed this issue in 2010. A ball exposed to 10-degree temperatures for an hour, the pressure drops from 13.5 PSI to 11 PSI.
Of course, that doesn’t fully account for a drop from 12.5 PSI to 10.5 PSI in 51-degree weather for 90 minutes or so. But it proves that, when it’s cold, the pressure inside a football drops.
In this specific situation, it could be that some pressure was removed from the balls, and that the 51-degree temperature did the rest. Regardless, when the mercury drops, footballs naturally deflate, at least a little. Link - ( New Window )
Its called Guy-Lussac's Law
P = p(T/t) constant volume and amount of gas, T in
What temperature would lead to a drop of pressure from 13.5 to 11.5?
t = (273+50)*11.5/113.5
Sphinx posted above that the NFL did a test and found that cold air did indeed drop pressure. I could see this if it was a small amount under the rules, but 2 lbs of lost pressure due to weather does not fit that equation. Also i keep coming back to the 12th ball not having the 2 lb drop
You would need conditions like the Ice Bowl or the Giants-Packers 2007 NFC Championship for the temperature to decrease the internal air pressure of the football that much. STP is 20 degrees Celsius or 68 degrees Fahrenheit; the temperature in New England that day was 51 degrees or 10.6 degrees C. 10 degrees difference in temperature (Centigrade) isn't enough to produce a pressure difference inside the ball that drastic. Now for Ice Bowl II (where it was -3F or -19C), it is possible
Because I know what the reaction would be and I know there wouldn't be nearly as much outrage over it. The vast majority of the posters who are annoyed and think it's a big deal would completely change their stance if it were the Giants.
I for one am not outraged, but I do think it's a big deal. I think I'd have the same reaction if it were our boys, but you might be right.
To me this is a case of the media making a story more than it is Â
:-).
Just for the 'this is no big deal crowd', since the score was 14-0 at the time, and ended 45-7:
Here is a real what if:
Down 14-0 possibly due to an illegal advantage, the -0- team has to modify their strategies to get back even.
Had all things been equal or at least closer on the scoreboard, likely all the play calls by Colts would have been different, possibly less risky, since they would not be trying to catch up.Possibly the Colts might have actually had a lead, made a key 3rd down stop, etc.
Apparently this was a known issue back in November Â
the Colts' suspicions date back to their Nov. 16 game against New England, a 42-20 Patriots win. In that game, Indianapolis safety Mike Adams intercepted two passes and handed both balls to the Colts' equipment manager to hold as souvenirs. Both balls, Schefter's sources say, were noticeably underinflated.
:-).
Just for the 'this is no big deal crowd', since the score was 14-0 at the time, and ended 45-7:
Here is a real what if:
Down 14-0 possibly due to an illegal advantage, the -0- team has to modify their strategies to get back even.
Had all things been equal or at least closer on the scoreboard, likely all the play calls by Colts would have been different, possibly less risky, since they would not be trying to catch up.Possibly the Colts might have actually had a lead, made a key 3rd down stop, etc.
I'd love to know what strategy change would have stopped them from getting blown off the ball or trucked by LeGarette Blount. The Colts were curbstomped in every aspect of that football game. With or without the football.
RE: Apparently this was a known issue back in November Â
the Colts' suspicions date back to their Nov. 16 game against New England, a 42-20 Patriots win. In that game, Indianapolis safety Mike Adams intercepted two passes and handed both balls to the Colts' equipment manager to hold as souvenirs. Both balls, Schefter's sources say, were noticeably underinflated.
Link - ( New Window )
that was a known issue about 20 posts ago :)
I don't think the deflated balls swung the game one way or another Â
the Colts' suspicions date back to their Nov. 16 game against New England, a 42-20 Patriots win. In that game, Indianapolis safety Mike Adams intercepted two passes and handed both balls to the Colts' equipment manager to hold as souvenirs. Both balls, Schefter's sources say, were noticeably underinflated.
And as noted on a previous post, the league was notified and the league did squat. I don't understand how these "tightly controlled" balls can be taken out of play on a whim by a player and, I presume, substituted for from the backup ball supply.
And ... this from the Rule Book ... did it happen?
Quote:
In the event a home team ball does not conform to specifications, or its supply is exhausted, the Referee shall secure a proper ball from the visitors and, failing that, use the best available ball.
Johnson said on PFT Live that he resents the stories that came out this morning suggesting that he bribed ball boys to tamper with footballs before the Super Bowl. Johnson told Mike Florio that he and the other quarterback in that Super Bowl, Oakland’s Rich Gannon, talked about it beforehand and both agreed that they didn’t want to play with the slick, brand-new balls that the NFL was using for the Super Bowl. Johnson said he didn’t personally tamper with the footballs, but he did pay the people who had the balls to break them in and make them easier to handle.
Matt Leinart 11 minutes ago
Every team tampers with the footballs. Ask any Qb In the league, this is ridiculous!!
And the league allows it to a degree, you can adjust the pressure within set parameters, scuff it, etc...The question is if they doctor them past the specified rules. Looks like the Colts did not do so, so that somewhat disproves the "everyone does it" claim with regards to violating the specified rules
Where are you seeing the Colts' footballs have actually been checked?
As 'Deflategate' unfolds, we find doctoring footballs is nothing new Â
The more quarterbacks I talk to, and the more you read past stories and interviews that reference, however casually, the various degrees of inflation or distress many quarterbacks prefer from their game balls, the more it appears to me as a somewhat accepted part of the subculture.
Mangini was a former angry employee with the Pats who decided to become Eric "The Bull" Gravano and rat out Belichick. What a disgrace. And it was another practice likely conducted by most teams...
And let's face it. This wouldn't be Belichick's doing, it would be Brady's...undoubtedly.
The media loath Belichick, and they are chomping at the bit to knock him down pegs. So this is the perfect storm entering the Super Bowl.They are being relentless.
Here's hoping Belichick has the last laugh and finally wins his 4th SB. And they do it by never passing the ball... ;)
you had zero problem with spygate? The league destroyed the tapes, they wouldn't have destroyed the tapes if it wasn't a big deal. You have no problem with another team taping the walkthrough of another? Really?
you had zero problem with spygate? The league destroyed the tapes, they wouldn't have destroyed the tapes if it wasn't a big deal. You have no problem with another team taping the walkthrough of another? Really?
The Pats did not tape any walkthough. That was an allegation even retracted by the Boston Herald. They taped hand signals from a position deemed unfair...whatever the means...
Matt Leinart 11 minutes ago
Every team tampers with the footballs. Ask any Qb In the league, this is ridiculous!!
And the league allows it to a degree, you can adjust the pressure within set parameters, scuff it, etc...The question is if they doctor them past the specified rules. Looks like the Colts did not do so, so that somewhat disproves the "everyone does it" claim with regards to violating the specified rules
Where are you seeing the Colts' footballs have actually been checked?
During the course of doing a proper investigation, due diligence would require they also measure the Colts balls. Its a common sense aspect to this and until we hear otherwise i would assume they were also measured.
you had zero problem with spygate? The league destroyed the tapes, they wouldn't have destroyed the tapes if it wasn't a big deal. You have no problem with another team taping the walkthrough of another? Really?
The Pats did not tape any walkthough. That was an allegation even retracted by the Boston Herald. They taped hand signals from a position deemed unfair...whatever the means...
I don't believe that they didn't tape (or at least have someone watch) the walkthrough, and neither does Marshall Faulk or Mike Martz. The NFL swept that whole thing under the rug pretty quickly, and it still smells.
Did you miss the article about Eli doctoring balls?
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In comment 12103735 arcarsenal said:
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I think there would be a massive dropoff in the "this is a big deal" crowd and a spike in the "it's not a big deal" crowd if that were the case.
No doubt in my mind.
Interesting question and i am sure some would move their stance. I would not be as vocal about it, but i would be more disappointed about them doing it. I keep coming back to this claim of everyone doing it. I have yet to see everyone claiming they do it, only 2 so far
They had to institute the K Balls because teams were constantly fucking around with balls. That is the exact reason they did that.
That happened back in 1998 for balls utilized for kicking, i'm talking about teams fucking with the every down balls
Quote:
There are only 2 QB's (one of them actually admitted he bribed people to doctor the balls for a SB, but that was an advantage for both QB's since it involved extra scuffing of the 100 balls used) who have claimed to fiddle the balls. The other question is while others may have done this, have any done it to the level of 2 lbs per square inch?
Did you miss the article about Eli doctoring balls?
Yeah i must have, you have a link to it? The article the Times published back in 2013 (i think) involved practice balls and how the staff requires a couple weeks to get them right for him. Game balls are delivered by the manufacturer just before gametime
Quote:
That happened back in 1998 for balls utilized for kicking, i'm talking about teams fucking with the every down balls
Where there K balls before the rule change? If every team does doctor the balls in so many different ways to their QBs liking why would you question that some/all stray over some strange line in the sand, ie ... pressure?
LOL..I'm just asking for you to show me where it says he doctored gameballs, your the one that made that claim and if so i want to read it.
Every team tampers with the footballs. Ask any Qb In the league, this is ridiculous!!
Quote:
In comment 12103789 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
That happened back in 1998 for balls utilized for kicking, i'm talking about teams fucking with the every down balls
Where there K balls before the rule change? If every team does doctor the balls in so many different ways to their QBs liking why would you question that some/all stray over some strange line in the sand, ie ... pressure?
From what i can tell, the issue that created the rule change to the K-Balls in 1998 had to deal with Kickers messing with the balls, not QBs
Every team tampers with the footballs. Ask any Qb In the league, this is ridiculous!!
And the league allows it to a degree, you can adjust the pressure within set parameters, scuff it, etc...The question is if they doctor them past the specified rules. Looks like the Colts did not do so, so that somewhat disproves the "everyone does it" claim with regards to violating the specified rules
Quote:
Matt Leinart 11 minutes ago
Every team tampers with the footballs. Ask any Qb In the league, this is ridiculous!!
And the league allows it to a degree, you can adjust the pressure within set parameters, scuff it, etc...The question is if they doctor them past the specified rules. Looks like the Colts did not do so, so that somewhat disproves the "everyone does it" claim with regards to violating the specified rules
Actually, it just proves the Colts did not reduce the air pressure in this particular game. Says nothing about other games this season or doctoring the ball in other ways.
Quote:
In comment 12103851 sphinx said:
Quote:
Matt Leinart 11 minutes ago
Every team tampers with the footballs. Ask any Qb In the league, this is ridiculous!!
And the league allows it to a degree, you can adjust the pressure within set parameters, scuff it, etc...The question is if they doctor them past the specified rules. Looks like the Colts did not do so, so that somewhat disproves the "everyone does it" claim with regards to violating the specified rules
Actually, it just proves the Colts did not reduce the air pressure in this particular game. Says nothing about other games this season or doctoring the ball in other ways.
So they decided this game was not important enough to do it? A rainy cold game where doctored balls would help? Just do it for the less important games, not the ones that could help you get to the SB?...Ok then..
The Patriots were cheating. It's the 2nd time they have been caught. It probably didn't effect the game, but they should face serious penalty. If Richard Sherman failed a drug test in 2011 for performance enhancing drugs and then failed one this week he wouldn't be playing in the Super Bowl. Everybody would be saying he is a POS and that he's cheating. This is essentially the same thing except a failed PED test is effecting one player. The shit that the Pats have been caught doing effects entire games.
Quote:
In comment 12103832 montanagiant said:
Quote:
In comment 12103789 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
That happened back in 1998 for balls utilized for kicking, i'm talking about teams fucking with the every down balls
Where there K balls before the rule change? If every team does doctor the balls in so many different ways to their QBs liking why would you question that some/all stray over some strange line in the sand, ie ... pressure?
From what i can tell, the issue that created the rule change to the K-Balls in 1998 had to deal with Kickers messing with the balls, not QBs
What the hell is the difference? It shows how common it was for balls to be altered. The next step is that all balls will now be regulated full time.
Quote:
In comment 12103848 sphinx said:
Quote:
In comment 12103832 montanagiant said:
Quote:
In comment 12103789 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
That happened back in 1998 for balls utilized for kicking, i'm talking about teams fucking with the every down balls
Where there K balls before the rule change? If every team does doctor the balls in so many different ways to their QBs liking why would you question that some/all stray over some strange line in the sand, ie ... pressure?
From what i can tell, the issue that created the rule change to the K-Balls in 1998 had to deal with Kickers messing with the balls, not QBs
What the hell is the difference? It shows how common it was for balls to be altered. The next step is that all balls will now be regulated full time.
Yeah 16 years ago it shows it. Has nothing to do with the current system of how the game balls are utilized. Granted 16 years ago the Kickers doctored balls, not arguing that point. Has nothing to do with what occurred on Sunday
Link - ( New Window )
Good point, I think they wanted to allow each team to customize them within set parameters while keeping league rules for it.
If the proper punishment isn't enforced by Goodell this will send the message you can cheat in the playoffs pay a fine which you would happily pay to win the Superbowl. What's a fine or loss of a draft pick compared to getting in the big game.
Quote:
There are only 2 QB's (one of them actually admitted he bribed people to doctor the balls for a SB, but that was an advantage for both QB's since it involved extra scuffing of the 100 balls used) who have claimed to fiddle the balls. The other question is while others may have done this, have any done it to the level of 2 lbs per square inch?
PFT, in part ...
The folks at SportsScience addressed this issue in 2010. A ball exposed to 10-degree temperatures for an hour, the pressure drops from 13.5 PSI to 11 PSI.
Of course, that doesn’t fully account for a drop from 12.5 PSI to 10.5 PSI in 51-degree weather for 90 minutes or so. But it proves that, when it’s cold, the pressure inside a football drops.
In this specific situation, it could be that some pressure was removed from the balls, and that the 51-degree temperature did the rest. Regardless, when the mercury drops, footballs naturally deflate, at least a little. Link - ( New Window )
Its called Guy-Lussac's Law
P = p(T/t) constant volume and amount of gas, T in
What temperature would lead to a drop of pressure from 13.5 to 11.5?
t = (273+50)*11.5/113.5
If the proper punishment isn't enforced by Goodell this will send the message you can cheat in the playoffs pay a fine which you would happily pay to win the Superbowl. What's a fine or loss of a draft pick compared to getting in the big game.
Stop...
If the proper punishment isn't enforced by Goodell this will send the message you can cheat in the playoffs pay a fine which you would happily pay to win the Superbowl. What's a fine or loss of a draft pick compared to getting in the big game.
This is idiotic.
so the balls were doctored
Sources told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter on Wednesday that the Colts had concerns about underinflated balls after their regular-season game against the visiting Patriots on Nov. 16.
During that game, Colts safety Mike Adams twice intercepted Tom Brady and gave the balls to the Colts' equipment manager to save -- and both times there were concerns about the balls feeling underinflated, sources told Schefter.
Those sources said the Colts raised concerns to the league, which was aware of the issue going into this weekend's AFC title game.
And it seems the league did squat.
Link - ( New Window )
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In comment 12103775 montanagiant said:
Quote:
There are only 2 QB's (one of them actually admitted he bribed people to doctor the balls for a SB, but that was an advantage for both QB's since it involved extra scuffing of the 100 balls used) who have claimed to fiddle the balls. The other question is while others may have done this, have any done it to the level of 2 lbs per square inch?
PFT, in part ...
The folks at SportsScience addressed this issue in 2010. A ball exposed to 10-degree temperatures for an hour, the pressure drops from 13.5 PSI to 11 PSI.
Of course, that doesn’t fully account for a drop from 12.5 PSI to 10.5 PSI in 51-degree weather for 90 minutes or so. But it proves that, when it’s cold, the pressure inside a football drops.
In this specific situation, it could be that some pressure was removed from the balls, and that the 51-degree temperature did the rest. Regardless, when the mercury drops, footballs naturally deflate, at least a little. Link - ( New Window )
Its called Guy-Lussac's Law
P = p(T/t) constant volume and amount of gas, T in
What temperature would lead to a drop of pressure from 13.5 to 11.5?
t = (273+50)*11.5/113.5
Sphinx posted above that the NFL did a test and found that cold air did indeed drop pressure. I could see this if it was a small amount under the rules, but 2 lbs of lost pressure due to weather does not fit that equation. Also i keep coming back to the 12th ball not having the 2 lb drop
Quote:
for cheating. It was an obvious advantage and a fine doesn't cut it. The game was 45-7. A ball that was easier to catch, easier to throw, easier to palm while running.
If the proper punishment isn't enforced by Goodell this will send the message you can cheat in the playoffs pay a fine which you would happily pay to win the Superbowl. What's a fine or loss of a draft pick compared to getting in the big game.
This is idiotic.
Yeah, the under-inflated balls did not cause the Colts to lose by 38 points. It was not the deciding factor in that win. Let the SB be played, give the punishment out (if there is any) after the season
so the balls were doctored
Actually 2 degrees Kelvin (273K = 0C = 32F) but props to you for bringing up Gay-Lussac's law. That being said, GL's law wouldn't have accounted for nearly the amount of pressure decrease we saw because the temperature wasn't nearly cold enough. The Pats definitely cheated, again
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In comment 12103783 sphinx said:
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In comment 12103775 montanagiant said:
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There are only 2 QB's (one of them actually admitted he bribed people to doctor the balls for a SB, but that was an advantage for both QB's since it involved extra scuffing of the 100 balls used) who have claimed to fiddle the balls. The other question is while others may have done this, have any done it to the level of 2 lbs per square inch?
PFT, in part ...
The folks at SportsScience addressed this issue in 2010. A ball exposed to 10-degree temperatures for an hour, the pressure drops from 13.5 PSI to 11 PSI.
Of course, that doesn’t fully account for a drop from 12.5 PSI to 10.5 PSI in 51-degree weather for 90 minutes or so. But it proves that, when it’s cold, the pressure inside a football drops.
In this specific situation, it could be that some pressure was removed from the balls, and that the 51-degree temperature did the rest. Regardless, when the mercury drops, footballs naturally deflate, at least a little. Link - ( New Window )
Its called Guy-Lussac's Law
P = p(T/t) constant volume and amount of gas, T in
What temperature would lead to a drop of pressure from 13.5 to 11.5?
t = (273+50)*11.5/113.5
Sphinx posted above that the NFL did a test and found that cold air did indeed drop pressure. I could see this if it was a small amount under the rules, but 2 lbs of lost pressure due to weather does not fit that equation. Also i keep coming back to the 12th ball not having the 2 lb drop
You would need conditions like the Ice Bowl or the Giants-Packers 2007 NFC Championship for the temperature to decrease the internal air pressure of the football that much. STP is 20 degrees Celsius or 68 degrees Fahrenheit; the temperature in New England that day was 51 degrees or 10.6 degrees C. 10 degrees difference in temperature (Centigrade) isn't enough to produce a pressure difference inside the ball that drastic. Now for Ice Bowl II (where it was -3F or -19C), it is possible
Because I know what the reaction would be and I know there wouldn't be nearly as much outrage over it. The vast majority of the posters who are annoyed and think it's a big deal would completely change their stance if it were the Giants.
I for one am not outraged, but I do think it's a big deal. I think I'd have the same reaction if it were our boys, but you might be right.
I find myself hoping the Pats destroy Seattle.
Just for the 'this is no big deal crowd', since the score was 14-0 at the time, and ended 45-7:
Here is a real what if:
Down 14-0 possibly due to an illegal advantage, the -0- team has to modify their strategies to get back even.
Had all things been equal or at least closer on the scoreboard, likely all the play calls by Colts would have been different, possibly less risky, since they would not be trying to catch up.Possibly the Colts might have actually had a lead, made a key 3rd down stop, etc.
Link - ( New Window )
Just for the 'this is no big deal crowd', since the score was 14-0 at the time, and ended 45-7:
Here is a real what if:
Down 14-0 possibly due to an illegal advantage, the -0- team has to modify their strategies to get back even.
Had all things been equal or at least closer on the scoreboard, likely all the play calls by Colts would have been different, possibly less risky, since they would not be trying to catch up.Possibly the Colts might have actually had a lead, made a key 3rd down stop, etc.
I'd love to know what strategy change would have stopped them from getting blown off the ball or trucked by LeGarette Blount. The Colts were curbstomped in every aspect of that football game. With or without the football.
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the Colts' suspicions date back to their Nov. 16 game against New England, a 42-20 Patriots win. In that game, Indianapolis safety Mike Adams intercepted two passes and handed both balls to the Colts' equipment manager to hold as souvenirs. Both balls, Schefter's sources say, were noticeably underinflated.
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that was a known issue about 20 posts ago :)
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the Colts' suspicions date back to their Nov. 16 game against New England, a 42-20 Patriots win. In that game, Indianapolis safety Mike Adams intercepted two passes and handed both balls to the Colts' equipment manager to hold as souvenirs. Both balls, Schefter's sources say, were noticeably underinflated.
And as noted on a previous post, the league was notified and the league did squat. I don't understand how these "tightly controlled" balls can be taken out of play on a whim by a player and, I presume, substituted for from the backup ball supply.
And ... this from the Rule Book ... did it happen?
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Link - ( New Window )
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Matt Leinart 11 minutes ago
Every team tampers with the footballs. Ask any Qb In the league, this is ridiculous!!
And the league allows it to a degree, you can adjust the pressure within set parameters, scuff it, etc...The question is if they doctor them past the specified rules. Looks like the Colts did not do so, so that somewhat disproves the "everyone does it" claim with regards to violating the specified rules
Where are you seeing the Colts' footballs have actually been checked?
CBS Sports NFL Insider
The more quarterbacks I talk to, and the more you read past stories and interviews that reference, however casually, the various degrees of inflation or distress many quarterbacks prefer from their game balls, the more it appears to me as a somewhat accepted part of the subculture.
The rest of the article ... - ( New Window )
Mangini was a former angry employee with the Pats who decided to become Eric "The Bull" Gravano and rat out Belichick. What a disgrace. And it was another practice likely conducted by most teams...
And let's face it. This wouldn't be Belichick's doing, it would be Brady's...undoubtedly.
The media loath Belichick, and they are chomping at the bit to knock him down pegs. So this is the perfect storm entering the Super Bowl.They are being relentless.
Here's hoping Belichick has the last laugh and finally wins his 4th SB. And they do it by never passing the ball... ;)
The Pats did not tape any walkthough. That was an allegation even retracted by the Boston Herald. They taped hand signals from a position deemed unfair...whatever the means...
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In comment 12103851 sphinx said:
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Matt Leinart 11 minutes ago
Every team tampers with the footballs. Ask any Qb In the league, this is ridiculous!!
And the league allows it to a degree, you can adjust the pressure within set parameters, scuff it, etc...The question is if they doctor them past the specified rules. Looks like the Colts did not do so, so that somewhat disproves the "everyone does it" claim with regards to violating the specified rules
Where are you seeing the Colts' footballs have actually been checked?
During the course of doing a proper investigation, due diligence would require they also measure the Colts balls. Its a common sense aspect to this and until we hear otherwise i would assume they were also measured.
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you had zero problem with spygate? The league destroyed the tapes, they wouldn't have destroyed the tapes if it wasn't a big deal. You have no problem with another team taping the walkthrough of another? Really?
The Pats did not tape any walkthough. That was an allegation even retracted by the Boston Herald. They taped hand signals from a position deemed unfair...whatever the means...
I don't believe that they didn't tape (or at least have someone watch) the walkthrough, and neither does Marshall Faulk or Mike Martz. The NFL swept that whole thing under the rug pretty quickly, and it still smells.