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NFT: Rangers J.T. Miller

blueblood'11 : 1/22/2015 7:07 am
Reading Larry Brooks column in the post today. Trade deadline is five weeks away. March second. Rangers don't have a lot of expendable assets as Larry puts it. Rangers are in the market for a front line center. The name that keeps coming up in trade talks is J.T. Miller.

I know the kid makes mistakes from time to time but he played his fucking ass off in a tightly contested match against the Senators the other night and knocked Karlsson into the middle of next week on an attempted hip check by Karlsson.

Why are the Rangers so quick to trade young assets all the time. This kid is only going to get better in my opinion. He's not the only one who makes a bad play once in awhile. St. Louis gave the puck up a couple of times the other night and so did McDonagh.

As Brooks stated you keep trading away young assets and first round picks in a go for broke win now mentality you become the Rangers of 1997-2004.
Those were very lean years as we all know.
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Headhunter  
blueblood'11 : 1/22/2015 8:17 am : link
If Haggerty was so impressive in camp then why is he still in the minors. I agree sometimes trades need to be made. But I don't think Miller is the one to go. How old is Klien? That was a good trade. I liked it right form the start. And it has paid dividends.

Miller is a Callahan type but I think has more skills.
I think it's less than a year that Haggerty graduated RPI  
Headhunter : 1/22/2015 8:21 am : link
Im not saying any of the guys I listed are better than or have more upside than Miller. It's that there is legitimate depth in the system
Headhunter  
blueblood'11 : 1/22/2015 8:25 am : link
Del Zotto was not nearly the player Miller is at this point in time. He had skills but disappeared at times. And don't forget, Torts was his coach and I think the kid new if he fucked up just once he'd be riding the bench. So the pressure was always there in one form or another. The same way it was for the likes of Dubinsky.

I watch a lot of Flyers games and I'll tell you what, Del Zotto plays very well and really knows how to move the puck. He is one of their more consistent defenseman in my opinion.
Headhunter  
blueblood'11 : 1/22/2015 8:26 am : link
I thought so too. But to read Larry Brooks column you'd think this team was bereft of prospects in the minors.
I am in no rush to deal Miller.  
arcarsenal : 1/22/2015 8:29 am : link
He's got good size/speed and his game is starting to really come around. He's made strides this year and he's still so fucking young. He's going to keep getting better. No chance I am dealing him for pure rental types like Vermette or Santorelli.
...  
BrettNYG10 : 1/22/2015 8:30 am : link
I think Brooks makes too much of AV's treatment of Miller (linked the article below). Both AV and Torts sat Kreider for long periods of time. AV was known in Vancouver for taking a long time to trust young guys.
NY Post - ( New Window )
RE: Anthony Duclair Pavel Buchnevich Ryan Haggerty  
Deej : 1/22/2015 8:35 am : link
In comment 12104697 Headhunter said:
Quote:
Adam Tambellini makes Miller kind of expendable


Duc and Buch are pure skill guys and AT and RH as of yet cant sniff JT's jock.

Miller is a budding power forward. More likely to be a Dubi type than a heavy PF, but a PF nevertheless. Dont let those guys go. Also, we dont need a frontline center. We need bottom 6 center depth. These kids are really valuable, since the core guys have gotten older and more expensive. Within a year or two we'll be paying full or near full price for the top 3 Ds, Hank, Stepan, Brass, Nash, Kreider, Zucc (UFA) etc. To have talented guys to backfill the roster is just huge.
Del Zotto?  
Chaka : 1/22/2015 8:40 am : link
I don't get the comparison. He had to practically beg for a job this offseason.

JT Miller would not be begging for a job if he was a free agent.
Keep the young homegrown talent. The so called "win now"  
Victor in CT : 1/22/2015 8:42 am : link
mentality is a big reason why they are 2 for 75. The only one of those trades that ever worked was the Messier trade, and even that CUP came precariously close to not happening.
well now I read the article  
Deej : 1/22/2015 8:43 am : link
it doesnt say we're in the market for a "frontline" center. It says:
Quote:
Everyone essentially knows what the Blueshirts need (depth up front, ideally in the form of a center who can win draws, and depth on the blue line, especially in the six hole that seems to belong by default to Matt Hunwick, in for 10 of the last 16 games)


That means a bottom 6 guy to take draws. Brassard and Stepan are the frontline (1C and 2C) centers. I dont think you trade your young, big, fast former mid 1st rounder who is currently playing a 3rd/4th line role for a stopgap faceoff guy. And Brooks doesnt suggest it -- the guy he names, Vermette, is a top 6 guy.
.  
arcarsenal : 1/22/2015 8:44 am : link
Miller is way too high a price for a rental like Santorelli  
Greg from LI : 1/22/2015 9:17 am : link
You trade a Ryan Bourque and a mid-round pick for someone like that, not a kid who has impressed the hell out of everyone this year.
Greg  
Deej : 1/22/2015 10:11 am : link
right. A pick or two (we have 2 #2s that I'd love to keep but whatever), Kristo, Lindberg, and McIlrath/Allen are all decent assets for teams in a rebuild. No way to you move Miller for any of the rental rental guys on the block right now.

We took Miller at 15 overall. Now he is developed, he dominated the AHL, and has outplayed his draft position (evidence: more NHL GPs than any 2011 #1 other than the top 10 picks, for a stacked team no less). Having him cost controlled for 4-5 more seasons is way more valuable than a few months of Vermette, let alone the lesser guys discussed.
+1 Deej, et al  
JonC : 1/22/2015 10:17 am : link
Brooks seems to be banging the old trade JT drum randomly here, but I wonder if Sather has eyes on a bigger fish that would require moving JT.
No way a rental  
Kyle in NY : 1/22/2015 10:18 am : link
should cost JT. Greg's proposal seems fair. 2nd round pick plus a prospect. I remember that was the price when we traded for Antropov in 2009, a solid rental. Obviously the market changes in that time, but I think the price is still relevant.

JT has a chance to be a piece we build with, even beyond our current "win now" mode. Don't jeopardize that. Plus, with the development he's shown this season, he can be a part of our success right now in this season
....  
BrettNYG10 : 1/22/2015 10:19 am : link
If we were in the theoretical position to trade for a Taylor Hall-type player, I'd understand moving Miller. But we have enough shiny, need the depth, and don't have the cap room for him.

I can't imagine a scenario where trading Miller really makes sense.
...  
BrettNYG10 : 1/22/2015 10:20 am : link
Sather has done a good job with trades, particularly in regards to trading young players.
.  
arcarsenal : 1/22/2015 10:32 am : link
I think the rumored price for Vermette was a 2nd + a piece. I don't think he would cost Miller anyway. Anyone who is trying to swap a rental piece for player like Miller is never going to find a match.
This is what I was talking about  
Greg from LI : 1/22/2015 10:37 am : link
The Rangers are a team that's a contender now, but I don't think they're at a "sell everything and the kitchen sink to win this year" point. I think they're well positioned for the next couple of seasons, although those deals for Girardi and Staal are going to be anchors for them not too far down the road.
RE: ...  
Deej : 1/22/2015 11:00 am : link
In comment 12104938 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Sather has done a good job with trades, particularly in regards to trading young players.


Of recent vintage, all but one of Sathers trades has been for a 1st line type or a 12/13th man type. Its Nash, MSL... or Carcillo. Sather has studiously avoided paying medium assets for a 2nd-3rd liner type. Except Clowe, which blew up in our face (he was injured and useless and was STILL too expensive to resign by a lot). Im hopeful that Sather has realized that you only pay retail for stars.

It also helps that our system is putting out players who can backfill the roster. So many of the earlier Sather moves can really be understood by the recognizing that the system wasnt producing any front end talent. So Sather felt compelled to dole out big UDA deals and trade for incomplete skilled guys like Wolski, Zherdev, Bourret etc
Link - ( New Window )
What young player have we traded that has mattered?  
Deej : 1/22/2015 11:13 am : link
Korpedo, but he is an adequate 3rd line type. I lose no sleep over that one. Tyutin obviously ... and that was in the summer of 2008. PAP we gave up on, so it doesnt count.

That's really it since at least as far back as the 2003 tear down.
Damn that trade history website  
Kyle in NY : 1/22/2015 11:25 am : link
has sent me down a major internet rabbit hole. Good stuff
I doubt they'd trade Miller  
Phil in LA : 1/22/2015 11:35 am : link
for a third line face-off upgrade. What concerns me when I hear his name being talked up is that they are shopping for something bigger than a third line C. I hope they are not shopping for a front line C that would cost the Rangers assets and chemistry.
Boy are there some ugly trades there.  
Victor in CT : 1/22/2015 11:40 am : link
I'm having nightmare flashbacks from the '70s.
28 years later  
Greg from LI : 1/22/2015 11:53 am : link
Kelly Miller and Mike Ridley for Bobby Carpenter still bugs the shit out of me. I loved Mike Ridley when I was a kid.
Hated  
Phil in LA : 1/22/2015 12:09 pm : link
that one when it happened. Thet were building something without Carpenter.
I wouldn't move Miller  
Giants2012 : 1/22/2015 1:06 pm : link
He has enough Roenick in him to keep him IMO.

Greg  
Drewcon40 : 1/22/2015 1:25 pm : link
ugh - that trade was awful. Carpenter was moved for Marcel Dionne. I am actually going to age myself but that trade and the Barry Beck trade were crushing. Pat Hickey is an all time favorite of mine and he was part of the Beck trade.
Beck trade was a bit before my time  
Greg from LI : 1/22/2015 1:28 pm : link
I remember Beck playing for them, but I think I was about 3 or 4 when they dealt for him.

I remember Beck as a pretty good defenseman - was the heartburn people get about him motivated by who was traded for him? Was it that he was good but not as good as expected?
They traded a big chunk of core  
Phil in LA : 1/22/2015 1:37 pm : link
from a Stanley Cup finalist team to get Beck, and he wasn't as good as they thought he would be.
RE: This is what I was talking about  
JoeyBigBlue : 1/22/2015 3:41 pm : link
In comment 12104968 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
The Rangers are a team that's a contender now, but I don't think they're at a "sell everything and the kitchen sink to win this year" point. I think they're well positioned for the next couple of seasons, although those deals for Girardi and Staal are going to be anchors for them not too far down the road.


Maybe Girardi... But not Staal. Staal is younger and a much more naturally skilled player. He will age better than Girardi.
As long as he can avoid concussions, eye injuries, etc  
JonC : 1/22/2015 3:43 pm : link
.
Girardi  
Deej : 1/22/2015 4:53 pm : link
will only be 35 when that deal is done. Orpik just got a huge deal STARTING in his age 35 season. With a bit of luck and some inflation, those deals will be fine until or almost until the end. Should be manageable.

Long term the deal that worries me is Hank. Cap hit of $8.5mn thru 2020, when he'll be 38. It's pretty likely that he'll be league average or worse for the last 2-3 years of that deal.
DG  
Deej : 1/22/2015 5:01 pm : link
just a hunch on my part, but I think he will not finish his contract in NY. I suspect we'll trade him around year 4 to get out of the contract. Not necessarily a straight dump -- we might get a decent asset back from a D starved team with a GM on the brink.

Will be really interesting to see how Sather manages assets going forward. We've never been in a position to lose significant UFAs. Last year we lost big guys -- Strals in particular. I wonder whether Sather will just let guys walk (Zucc/MSL) or will he trade guys with term/RFA years left for assets (Hags) and resign the pending UFAs? There is a finite amount we can spend, especially on these wings who have promising potential replacements in the AHL and beyond.
Cap will  
Phil in LA : 1/22/2015 5:48 pm : link
go way up over the next few years, which will help immensely.
Greg RE: Beck trade was a bit before my time  
Drewcon40 : 1/22/2015 5:52 pm : link
In comment 12105324 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
was the heartburn people get about him motivated by who was traded for him? Was it that he was good but not as good as expected?


He definately made an impact. It probably was a fair trade. Pat Hickey is all time favorite of mine so that was the crushing part for me. I am only a couple of years older than you so my allegiance were much less based on the business aspect.

If I recall correctly, he was one of many that Ted Sator didn't treat very well.
Barry Beck was really good  
arniefez : 1/22/2015 6:03 pm : link
but not a savior. He got hurt against the Islanders in the playoffs and was never the same. Bad shoulder injury. But what Barry Beck will always be remembered for is Bill Chadwick yelling shoot the puck Barry every time he hesitated from the point and it happened a lot and was a great running joke among Ranger fans in the early 80's. Larry Brooks wrote about Middelton for Hodge today. It wouldn't surprise me if the Beck trade was yet another Esposito deal.
arniefez  
Drewcon40 : 1/22/2015 6:14 pm : link
you are probably right. I have read some old stories and biographies that all seem to indicate the Esposito and may he rest in peace, Carol Vadinas, were very vocal in the locker room. Again, this is all speculative but I have heard that they wanted Hedberg and Nillson to change their style of play. Esposito was really public about his disain for New York but he grew to love it.

You could be right though - he likely influenced many trades. God knows he was the first Fantasy Hockey GM that used a real NHL team. Greg mentioned the Bobby Carpenter trade. He barely put the sweater on before he was traded for Dionne.

28 games?
Some of you guys go way further back them me  
Deej : 1/22/2015 6:20 pm : link
I started watching around 88 or so. I was 8 or 9. I had just come back from camp where I excelled at floor hockey (a sport I had never played before), and then I found the Rangers playing on TV (a team I had never heard of). When I started watching I remember our best line was Kisio, Mullen and Ogrodnick, and then we traded for Bernie Nicholls who blew my mind because he had just scored 150 points the year before. That was an inconceivable amount of points to me.

The first heartbreaking "trade", oddly enough, was when the arbitrator awarded the Oilers Troy Mallette, who I loved. We had signed some JAG I'd never heard of named Adam Graves. I was seriously pissed off.
so many old people.  
BrettNYG10 : 1/22/2015 6:25 pm : link
.
RE: so many old people.  
arcarsenal : 1/22/2015 6:30 pm : link
In comment 12105775 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
.


Seriously. This thread smells like moth balls.
crap  
Deej : 1/22/2015 6:34 pm : link
now Im all worried that I count as old to Brett and arc. This is eating at me. What say you, internet?
arc is just deflecting  
Greg from LI : 1/22/2015 6:44 pm : link
he's getting fairly old himself now. I think he's creeping up on 30.
Anything over 30 is just gross.  
BrettNYG10 : 1/22/2015 6:53 pm : link
28/29, you might be able to get away with it, but you're done at 30.
So Hank is done?  
Greg from LI : 1/22/2015 6:55 pm : link
Sorry to hear that
RE: Anything over 30 is just gross.  
arcarsenal : 1/22/2015 7:09 pm : link
In comment 12105808 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
28/29, you might be able to get away with it, but you're done at 30.


Now I'm not coming to your fucking Sweet 16.
Ugh! Turned 40 in December  
Drewcon40 : 1/22/2015 8:05 pm : link
......I was just getting over it and I didn't realize I was at recess! Once again, being a Ranger fan can be heartbreaking.
RE: So Hank is done?  
BrettNYG10 : 1/22/2015 8:08 pm : link
In comment 12105812 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Sorry to hear that


Has a wife and kid. He's done. Just counting the clock from here.
.........  
BrettNYG10 : 1/22/2015 8:13 pm : link
Is 40 even a real age?
RE: .........  
Drewcon40 : 1/22/2015 8:46 pm : link
In comment 12105883 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Is 40 even a real age?


It's the new 20.....so I'm told. From brief experience, it isn't.
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