Ideas for punishing the Patriots

I think such measures threaten to make a joke of the game. I think a draft pick/fine is more appropriate.

Personally I think the biggest failure is on the NFL itself for having such a strange system for providing footballs for games. That needs to be overhauled.

I also think this story has little to no legs if it were the Seahawks. But because it's New England, because of Spygate, and above all because the media detests Belichick...this has become a bigger issue than it probably actually is.

In comment 12104918 Go Terps said:

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I think such measures threaten to make a joke of the game. I think a draft pick/fine is more appropriate. Personally I think the biggest failure is on the NFL itself for having such a strange system for providing footballs for games. That needs to be overhauled. I also think this story has little to no legs if it were the Seahawks. But because it's New England, because of Spygate, and above all because the media detests Belichick...this has become a bigger issue than it probably actually is.

Agree on all of your points here Terps

A fine is more than ample. Besides the balls psi were corrected at halftime. 17-7 at the end of the half, final score 45-7. Can you imagine the score if they used the properly inflated ball all game.

To me, the actual ball-deflation isn't a big deal really. However, under Belichick the Pats have shown they will repeatedly hover on and sometimes cross the line in regards to NFL rules. Sometimes it's serious, sometimes it's not-so serious, but it has to be stopped. Whether Bill is directly involved or not, he's the captain of the ship. Leave the Super Bowl alone, please. But BB should be suspended a game or two at the onset of next season. Take a draft pick away too, one less chip for Bill to trade-down with.

and be done with it. This is getting beyond stupid...

to actually suspend Belichick for this game? That's the only thing that would really shock me.

Those ideas Suck.
You are punishing a team before the investigation is complete not to mention ruining the Super Bowl by doing that.

In comment 12104949 ZogZerg said:

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Those ideas Suck. You are punishing a team before the investigation is complete not to mention ruining the Super Bowl by doing that.

Not to mention giving advantages to an undeserving team that flaunts plenty of rules of its own...

In the America's Game on the '76 Raiders, John Madden said, "If you're not cheating, you're not trying."

Part of what makes Belichick better than his peers is that he looks for every possible edge. I'm sure if we were on the inside we'd see other practices that straddle the line between an edge and cheating. It's on the league to police that.

Well he got caught here, and because it's him and the media feels scorned that he doesn't provide the quotes to fill their endless useless articles, they're going to call on Goodell to come down hard on him. And Goodell just might do that, because he'll do anything to take the light off the joke of a job he's done as commissioner in the past year.

What an awful year for the NFL...the story is always off the game itself with that league.

That includes the Patriots, who are routinely dismissive, condescending and smug towards everyone who isn't the Patriots. They're just so fucking brilliant that they've now been caught, red-handed, doing things that "everyone else does" because they push it juuuuuuuust over the limit.

Don't kid yourselves, they think they're smarter than everyone else, yet they do stupid shit like this that is completely unnecessary. This IS cheating, and it's cheating in the stupidest possible way.

As for their punishment, there isn't going to be one. Belichick passed the buck to Tom Brady, who will speak at 4pm today, say he has no idea how the balls got deflated below the limit, and we'll be left with the league having no proof of anything nefarious, even though you'd have to be an idiot to believe that neither Brady nor Belichick had anything at all to do with it.

All that's going to happen is that the teams will ultimately lose their right to handle the footballs before games, which is how it should have been in the first place.

So because one team has been accused of possibly "cheating," the punishment will be to give advantages to the other team? Wouldn't that almost be like an NFL sanctioned overt cheating to give one team an advantage over the other?

Man...those ideas suck.

Take draft pick(s) away and fine the team. But let the Super Bowl play out competitively as it should be.

This game has to be one of the biggest bet-on games every year. We are talking serious money being laid on this one game, you can't fuck with that.

makes no sense. This will end up being a fairly substantial fine and possibly a draft pick. No in game suspensions or other oddities.

(the fact that we even have two "gates" by the same team is ridiculous).

They were heavily fined and lost a 1st round draft pick, I think.

Let them play the game though.

TB threw 11 balls and didnt notice a difference with the 12th; as a parallel, he threw 11 balls and didnt notice they seemed different, period.
In no case said anything to anyone.

an acceptable range for them. between ?? and ??? pounds. Each team gets to decide how much they want the balls inflated, within an acceptable range, when they are on offense.

they already have to scuff the balls. why not let them play with the balls in the condition they think will make them more successful?

and obtaining a competitive advantage is merely a fine or the loss of draft picks, then the risk/reward calculation will favor cheating every time.

If you want to deter cheating to obtain a competitive advantage, make it hurt the cheaters by imposing a competitive disadvantage.

the Patriots are the only ones who thought of doing this.

In comment 12104997 old man said:

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TB threw 11 balls and didnt notice a difference with the 12th; as a parallel, he threw 11 balls and didnt notice they seemed different, period. In no case said anything to anyone.

I read that the teams use different balls.

In comment 12105002 bc4life said:

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an acceptable range for them. between ?? and ??? pounds. Each team gets to decide how much they want the balls inflated, within an acceptable range, when they are on offense. they already have to scuff the balls. why not let them play with the balls in the condition they think will make them more successful?

They already do this. The Pats were below the range.

for an entire season.

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If the complaint is that these measures would unduly affect the play of the game....sorry, so does breaking the rules about ball inflation pressure.

Even if it was some sort of idiotic "eye for an eye" punishment, logically you'd do it for a matchup with the Colts, since the Seahawks weren't effected by the cheating.

In comment 12104918 Go Terps said:

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I think such measures threaten to make a joke of the game. I think a draft pick/fine is more appropriate. Personally I think the biggest failure is on the NFL itself for having such a strange system for providing footballs for games. That needs to be overhauled. I also think this story has little to no legs if it were the Seahawks. But because it's New England, because of Spygate, and above all because the media detests Belichick...this has become a bigger issue than it probably actually is.

I find myself constantly agreeing 100% with the fan of Terrapins.

Completely deflate them. Let them have to use balls that are not pumped up at all.

Maybe I'm leaping to a conclusion but they got caught cheating before and got caught cheating again. How many times did they cheat throughout the course of 15 years where they didn't get caught. I don't think anyone is stupid enough to think that they didn't intentionally deflate the balls for this game. Does anybody think that this wasn't a common practice for them. (Check out Brady's cold weather stats).

I think there is rampant cheating going on by that team and it needs to be dealt with.

DQ the PAts, then have the teams they beat, the Ravens and the Colts, play each other this weekend. The winner plays the Seahawks next week as scheduled.

In comment 12105061 SLIM_ said:

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Completely deflate them. Let them have to use balls that are not pumped up at all. Maybe I'm leaping to a conclusion but they got caught cheating before and got caught cheating again. How many times did they cheat throughout the course of 15 years where they didn't get caught. I don't think anyone is stupid enough to think that they didn't intentionally deflate the balls for this game. Does anybody think that this wasn't a common practice for them. (Check out Brady's cold weather stats). I think there is rampant cheating going on by that team and it needs to be dealt with.

I also don't think anyone is stupid enough to think other teams do a lot of the same shit...

In comment 12105064 Kevin999 said:

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DQ the PAts, then have the teams they beat, the Ravens and the Colts, play each other this weekend. The winner plays the Seahawks next week as scheduled.

This is really getting out of hand. And why the league needs to end this today. Announce a fine. Take a draft pick. Done.

In comment 12105064 Kevin999 said:

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DQ the PAts, then have the teams they beat, the Ravens and the Colts, play each other this weekend. The winner plays the Seahawks next week as scheduled.

Obviously you work with either a Colts/Ravens fan or a complete moron.

Honestly.

Do away with the coin toss? The Patriots cheat their asses off against the Colts, so the Seahawks automatically get the ball twice?

The Patriots cheat their asses off against the Colts, so the Seahawks get to play in the Super Bowl against a team without a normal share of time outs?

This post felt like trolling to me.

might not be such a big deal.

Does NE still stockpile them?

The league should handle the game balls from here on out.

The Colts (and others) got screwed, but the Seahawks benefit.
Cheating is a crime by the Pats vs. 31 other teams, so a punishment must be on the Pats vis a vis 31 other teams. Like a draft pick or suspensions or fines.

would respond and how it would impact how non-Pats fans view the team if team were to suspend Brady for the Super Bowl.

draft pick away, say a 4 or a 5 and give it to the Colts

Most likely, the punishment (if any) will be post Super Bowl after a detailed investigation (not really enough time now).

IF they can finish the investigation and any appeals and IF, as he said today, Belichick knew nothing about it, someone must have directed them.

IF it was Brady or an assistant coach / coordinator, that person should be suspended for the Super Bowl. Fines and draft picks etc. come after.

In comment 12105117 natefit said:

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draft pick away, say a 4 or a 5 and give it to the Colts

Screw that. If they lose a pick, it's gone. The Colts don't deserve it. They got their asses kicked.

In comment 12105117 natefit said:

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draft pick away, say a 4 or a 5 and give it to the Colts

Not sure why Colts should benefit from this over anyone else. It's not like the deflated footballs were the reason the Colts got their asses handed to them.

was committed against the Colts so if anyone should benefit it should be them. Granted it had little effect on the game tho. Ill still root for the Pats but with a l ittle less enthusiasm now. Cheating is cheating.

Draft picks is the most logical way to punish them if it is fund necessary to do so.

I bet Seattle wouldn't even want those benefits, let alone why would they deserve them. If they won they would be cheated because their "win" would forever have an asterisk next to it.

and give it to another team because this probably isn't the first time the Pats did this. Reports already are that the Ravens alerted the Colts to the issue.

So the "give the picks to Colts" crowd, would have picks going to Ravens too.

It's ridiculous to propose that as how the punishment should be handled.

Who is suggesting giving their picks to the Colts?

In comment 12105150 steve in ky said:

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Who is suggesting giving their picks to the Colts?

natefit

Let me ask again - if all a team loses by cheating to gain a competitive advantage is a draft pick and a nominal fine, who the hell WOULDN'T pay that price in exchange for a chance at a Super Bowl?

Maybe the Commissioner will write them a really nasty letter and tell them how mad he is, too?

I think you guys are not looking at this in the correct frame of mind. If the Pats are where they are because they had a competitive advantage, they can't then be placed in the same position as if they had gotten there cleanly. Think about it for a minute.

In comment 12105150 steve in ky said:

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Who is suggesting giving their picks to the Colts?

natefit?

Read the last few posts.

In comment 12105151 Chris in Philly said:

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In comment 12105150 steve in ky said: Quote: Who is suggesting giving their picks to the Colts? natefit

Thanks, I missed it. I agree, you can't give the picks to the Colts.

If the penalty for stealing $1 million were a $10,000 fine, who in their right mind would NOT steal the $1 million?

Likewise, who in their right mind, when faced with the chance to go to the Super Bowl, would NOT cheat to gain a competitive advantage if all that is lost is a draft pick and $25K?

In comment 12105152 lawguy9801 said:

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Let me ask again - if all a team loses by cheating to gain a competitive advantage is a draft pick and a nominal fine, who the hell WOULDN'T pay that price in exchange for a chance at a Super Bowl? Maybe the Commissioner will write them a really nasty letter and tell them how mad he is, too? I think you guys are not looking at this in the correct frame of mind. If the Pats are where they are because they had a competitive advantage, they can't then be placed in the same position as if they had gotten there cleanly. Think about it for a minute.

The issue comes down to "two wrongs don't make it right" approach by most posters in response to your suggestions.

As you suggested, one team won because of unfair competitive advantage, which is definitely wrong. But to try to right that by giving another team an unfair competitive advantage is wrong.

The infractions have (potentially) already taken place and will be dealt with. You don't then go ahead and created another instances of unfair advantage. That's not how justice is served.

In comment 12105157 lawguy9801 said:

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If the penalty for stealing $1 million were a $10,000 fine, who in their right mind would NOT steal the $1 million? Likewise, who in their right mind, when faced with the chance to go to the Super Bowl, would NOT cheat to gain a competitive advantage if all that is lost is a draft pick and $25K?

False equivalencies to bolster your weak argument isn't going to convince others that your original suggestions weren't that great.

In comment 12105152 lawguy9801 said:

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Let me ask again - if all a team loses by cheating to gain a competitive advantage is a draft pick and a nominal fine, who the hell WOULDN'T pay that price in exchange for a chance at a Super Bowl? Maybe the Commissioner will write them a really nasty letter and tell them how mad he is, too? I think you guys are not looking at this in the correct frame of mind. If the Pats are where they are because they had a competitive advantage, they can't then be placed in the same position as if they had gotten there cleanly. Think about it for a minute.

We're not the ones in the wrong frame of mind. You want to give a competitive advantage to a team that doesn't deserve it AND change the fundamental rules of the sport for one game resulting in a giant asterisk if the Seahawks win.

In comment 12105160 RC02XX said:

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In comment 12105157 lawguy9801 said: Quote: If the penalty for stealing $1 million were a $10,000 fine, who in their right mind would NOT steal the $1 million? Likewise, who in their right mind, when faced with the chance to go to the Super Bowl, would NOT cheat to gain a competitive advantage if all that is lost is a draft pick and $25K? False equivalencies to bolster your weak argument isn't going to convince others that your original suggestions weren't that great.

How is it a "false equivalency"? It's an example to show the same logic at work - if the payoff for cheating is much greater than the potential penalties, cheating will pay off every time.

As for my examples, if you don't like those particular ones, fine. If they can't be placed at a competitive disadvantage somehow, then maybe take away all their draft picks, or something that will really deter future violators. But to suggest that taking away a draft pick and a $25K is adequate punishment for cheating and sufficient deterrence for future cheating is a joke.

In comment 12105163 Chris in Philly said:

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In comment 12105152 lawguy9801 said: Quote: Let me ask again - if all a team loses by cheating to gain a competitive advantage is a draft pick and a nominal fine, who the hell WOULDN'T pay that price in exchange for a chance at a Super Bowl? Maybe the Commissioner will write them a really nasty letter and tell them how mad he is, too? I think you guys are not looking at this in the correct frame of mind. If the Pats are where they are because they had a competitive advantage, they can't then be placed in the same position as if they had gotten there cleanly. Think about it for a minute. We're not the ones in the wrong frame of mind. You want to give a competitive advantage to a team that doesn't deserve it AND change the fundamental rules of the sport for one game resulting in a giant asterisk if the Seahawks win.

It's not a matter of giving a benefit to the Seahawks but punishing the Patriots.