I haven't really been on BBI this week, and I searched for this topic but didn't see anything posted - if it has been, I will delete.
While, to say the least, I don't think the NFL will take the advice of a USA Today columnist and rescind the Patriots' win over the Colts, here are a couple of modest proposals that may actually punish the Patriots in the Super Bowl:
- Do away with the coin toss, and declare that the Seahawks have the option to receive both the first and second half kickoffs and choose which goal to defend.
- Declare that the Patriots have no timeouts, or at least less than the full allotment of three per half.
To me, measures like these would tangibly punish the Patriots a lot more for their cheating -- and deter future cheats -- than a paltry fine or docking them draft pick(s).
If the complaint is that these measures would unduly affect the play of the game....sorry, so does breaking the rules about ball inflation pressure.
What do you think? Any other similar ideas?
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In comment 12105152 lawguy9801 said:
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Let me ask again - if all a team loses by cheating to gain a competitive advantage is a draft pick and a nominal fine, who the hell WOULDN'T pay that price in exchange for a chance at a Super Bowl?
Maybe the Commissioner will write them a really nasty letter and tell them how mad he is, too?
I think you guys are not looking at this in the correct frame of mind. If the Pats are where they are because they had a competitive advantage, they can't then be placed in the same position as if they had gotten there cleanly. Think about it for a minute.
We're not the ones in the wrong frame of mind. You want to give a competitive advantage to a team that doesn't deserve it AND change the fundamental rules of the sport for one game resulting in a giant asterisk if the Seahawks win.
It's not a matter of giving a benefit to the Seahawks but punishing the Patriots.
And by doing that you are giving the benefit to the Seahawks (a team with its own laundry list of infractions).
But by doing so, the result is still the same. So how is that not giving the Seahawks a competitive advantage?
To be clear, I'm assuming that there will be a finding that this was intentional wrongdoing.
:)
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It's not a matter of giving a benefit to the Seahawks but punishing the Patriots.
But by doing so, the result is still the same. So how is that not giving the Seahawks a competitive advantage?
If Tom Brady is found to have ordered that the balls be deflated, should he be suspended for the SB? And if so, wouldnt that be an even bigger advantage for Seattle?
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In comment 12105171 lawguy9801 said:
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It's not a matter of giving a benefit to the Seahawks but punishing the Patriots.
But by doing so, the result is still the same. So how is that not giving the Seahawks a competitive advantage?
If Tom Brady is found to have ordered that the balls be deflated, should he be suspended for the SB? And if so, wouldnt that be an even bigger advantage for Seattle?
But that is a suspension, which has been previously doled out as punishment. It doesn't change the integrity of the game as changing the rules for one game. If that's the punishment, then so be it.
Seriously, you're a bright guy, I don't understand how you don't see the difference between suspension (which has been used as a punishment previously) and actually changing the rules of the game.
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In comment 12105171 lawguy9801 said:
No he should be fined. Should Marshon Lynch be suspended for violating the rules by grabbing his crotch.
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It's not a matter of giving a benefit to the Seahawks but punishing the Patriots.
But by doing so, the result is still the same. So how is that not giving the Seahawks a competitive advantage?
If Tom Brady is found to have ordered that the balls be deflated, should he be suspended for the SB? And if so, wouldnt that be an even bigger advantage for Seattle?
I think the Pats are gonna lose two 1st round picks and a second round pick.
And Belichick will be fined 1 million dollars.
LOL
No he should be fined. Should Marshon Lynch be suspended for violating the rules by grabbing his crotch.
I think the Pats are gonna lose two 1st round picks and a second round pick.
And Belichick will be fined 1 million dollars.
That is wildly excessive.
It makes sense from his perspective. First, he finishes his very poor season looking like he made a tough, controversial, but "correct" decision. Most in the media and most of the fanbases who don't like Belichick or the Patriots will support it. As will the owners.
Second, he calms the circus. He sure as hell doesn't want media day, the coaches press conferences, his press conference next week overtaken by 450 questions on it. There will still be plenty of questions but I think he'll make a calculated guess that it won't be as frenetic with Belichick gone. Also he doesn't want Belichck going "no comment" and "on to Seattle" nonstop for the whole week.
So, yeah. I don't agree with that and honestly don't even think this is as grievous a thing as people are making it, but I have a feeling Goodell is going to do this.
If I were a Seattle fan, I would NOT want anything to taint a victory by a rules change.
The only thing that is possible would be to suspend a player(s) or a coach(es) for the game if the evidence was overwhelming and there was very, very clear evidence of intent to cheat AND lie about it afterwords.
If need be, come down on the Patriots like a ton of bricks AFTER the game.
It makes sense from his perspective. First, he finishes his very poor season looking like he made a tough, controversial, but "correct" decision. Most in the media and most of the fanbases who don't like Belichick or the Patriots will support it. As will the owners.
Second, he calms the circus. He sure as hell doesn't want media day, the coaches press conferences, his press conference next week overtaken by 450 questions on it. There will still be plenty of questions but I think he'll make a calculated guess that it won't be as frenetic with Belichick gone. Also he doesn't want Belichck going "no comment" and "on to Seattle" nonstop for the whole week.
So, yeah. I don't agree with that and honestly don't even think this is as grievous a thing as people are making it, but I have a feeling Goodell is going to do this.
Do you really think suspending the best coach in the game for the Super Bowl is going to calm the circus for the NFL? This isn't even a circus, it's just a product of sports media needing something to talk about that isn't Xs and Os (even basic Xs and Os) for some reason. Suspending Belichick would turn it into a Barnum & Bailey grand finale and would certainly not get the "kudos, Roger" sentiment you claim it would.
both are equal to me...the SB is the Season ... BB for no season costs them a season...
The issue is BB, Kraft, The Pats are repeat offenders...
Do you really think suspending the best coach in the game for the Super Bowl is going to calm the circus for the NFL? This isn't even a circus, it's just a product of sports media needing something to talk about that isn't Xs and Os (even basic Xs and Os) for some reason. Suspending Belichick would turn it into a Barnum & Bailey grand finale and would certainly not get the "kudos, Roger" sentiment you claim it would.
No, I don't. But that wasn't what I said or at the very least meant to say. As mentioned I think suspending Belichick is wrong and not something I agree with or would do. As I don't think this is as big a deal as it is being made out to be.
My opinion that he will be suspended is based on the misguided look out for yourself commissioner of the NFL who is one of the worst in American sports history. That's what I meant by that post. I was saying why I think Goodell will suspend him. What his basis for it would be.
I don't think he should suspended. I don't even know if any type of "punishment" is even warranted. As I don't think this is a big deal, and I'm sure has been done many times in many other places.
Man, those Harbaughs are a whiny bunch.
If any player was involved, their suspension should follow the same as Belichick's.
The punishment is very strong, but given their track record appropriate. Keeping BB away from the Patriot's facility all offseason will be an even strong message than the first game. But putting them on a nationally televised game opening day next season, without BB, will be an embarrassment that they will not forget.
they already have to scuff the balls. why not let them play with the balls in the condition they think will make them more successful?
They do give an acceptable range. The Pats were 2lbs under that range, thus the scandal about it
What the Patriots did doesn't bother me in the least. This is the NFl's failure. You let teams provide balls, they can do what they want to them, even make them illegal. The burden is on the rulekeepers to catch and prevent it. They didn't.
Belicheck lives on the edge of the rules, and also on the edge of innovation. Think about how he had the RB declare Ineligible against the Ravens a few different times, which opened up TEs - that's genius, and you don't see other guys at this level doing things like this.
Well in a way the mere fact that the balls were under by 2 lbs is proof of guilt. Finding the actual person who requested this will never be found out because the important people involved with the Pats that directly benefited from this will never admit it.
They will blame the ball boy (who will be let go with a nice compensation)
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Reports already are that the Ravens alerted the Colts to the issue.
Man, those Harbaughs are a whiny bunch.
I thought I read that too and went back and looked for it. It's actually a fine of AT LEAST $25,000. So the NFL can impose greater punishment if they wish.
Aaron Rodgers even said that the refs often deflate the balls that he has over-inflated during games, without getting in trouble. Doesn't seem like anything to be concerned with.
Has Eli commented?
taking game balls and deflating them after the officials certified them is beyond belief
these idiots continue to thumb their noses at the league and the game
Suspend them both, immediately and indefinitely.
I was astounded to learn this. Makes no sense to me.
Aaron Rodgers even said that the refs often deflate the balls that he has over-inflated during games, without getting in trouble. Doesn't seem like anything to be concerned with.
Has Eli commented?
Who are these multiple QB's that have come out and said they do this? I have seen Brad Johnson claim he and Gannon both wanted scuffed up balls for the SB, I have heard of other QBs that want scuffed balls (Which all fall within the rules). I see where Rodgers has come and said his balls have air let out by the refs before the game, but that is what is supposed to happen with the way the rules read. What happened here was approval of the balls by the refs, THEN they were messed with. Not one other QB has come and said they do that that i have seen.
Hello?
In all seriousness, this^^^
It's like a holding call during a game. A flag is thrown, yard are marched off, onto the next play.
This is a witch hunt, pure and simple. There is a a high level of envy, jealousy, and resentment towards the Pats. So what should be akin to not paying a toll, turns into this insanity that a bank was robbed.
The media is the ultimate enabler because they need to generate ratings; and this is a great subject to package up as a public crisis because they mostly despise Belichick's demeanor...
If you want to deter cheating to obtain a competitive advantage, make it hurt the cheaters by imposing a competitive disadvantage.
You dont think losing a draft pick, specially a high pick, creates a competitive disadvantage?
It does, and for an extended period.
I dont know the percentages, but I'd imagine a high percentage of players picked in the top 2 rounds make a reasonable contribution to their teams. Sometimes high draft picks dont live up to expectations/potential but they still do contribute.
It didn't used to be this way. Brady and Peyton Manning are the main two big names that pushed for the change.
Link - ( New Window )
Troy Aikman: Patriots punishment should exceed Saints bounty punishment http://wp.me/p14QSB-9GZP
They should be fined and maybe have a pick or two taken away. Suggesting that Bill should be suspended for a full year (or more) or for the freaking Super Bowl is ludicrous.