Rumor: Beason and Kiwanuka to be cut

I think he's done,and dunking Reese in the Ice Bucket Challenge probably made his year.He can now retire peacefully.

Beason I'm a little surprised at,1 and done after signing a new contract is ruthless,but that's not it.Surprised because of the money and the other options on the team.There are none,and I don't think Reese can be relied upon to find a linebacker.

You can only do one june 1 cut and Kiwi has the bigger contract and the greater the savings in year one and 1/2 would be used as dead money in 2016. Since we are close to 100 million under the cap in 2016 might as well use it. I hope they are working on Eli or is Jerry going to let him test free agency.

especially with Beason. Now somebody explain how he got such a big contract in the first place with all these injury problems. Was it a charity hire or what ? Another GM f//k up in my mind. We should have kept Joseph not this guy.

In comment 12107853 Chip said:

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You can only do one june 1 cut and Kiwi has the bigger contract and the greater the savings in year one and 1/2 would be used as dead money in 2016. Since we are close to 100 million under the cap in 2016 might as well use it. I hope they are working on Eli or is Jerry going to let him test free agency.

You can do two post June 1 cuts per year.

In comment 12107768 pjcas18 said:

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and make both post-June 1 cuts. limits the dead space (this year) to $5M combined (vs $6.4M) and cap savings of $9.8M as opposed to pre June 1 cut cap savings of $8.3M subject to optimus confirmation..

I read this the same way. According to Over the Cap, it won't matter if Kiwi is a pre- or post- June 1 cut, the savings will be the same.

You are right and might as well use both with the 2016 season in limbo.

I'd try and re-sign Williams if the price is right.

I would not re-sign Herzlich, and instead make an offer to Andrew Gachkar (SD). He can do everything Herzlich can - core special-teamer, spot starter - but a little bit better, and he's two years younger. Akeem Dent (HOU) would be my second choice.

I wouldn't re-sign Paysinger, either. I'd make an offer to Chris White (NE) or Larry Dean (BUF).

As for the draft, I still don't see the Giants using a premium pick on a linebacker. I figure they'll do what they usually do and look for LBs in the mid-to-late rounds.

In comment 12107871 Chip said:

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You are right and might as well use both with the 2016 season in limbo.

actually Mike in Philly is right, Kiwi is the same pre or post June 1, so they only need 1 post-june 1 cut (beason)

makes no sense? His injury was freak not career ending?? We would need a total reload on LB's in this new defense if Beason goes.
Kiwi is definitely gone.

in the Giants' defense. When he joined the team in 2013 he turned the entire season around. His loss last year was the primary reason Fewell no longer has a job - not that I would have kept Fewell, but Beason's defensive knowledge and talent overcame weaknesses in Fewell's design. My guess is the Giants are not convinced Beason's toe surgery will be entirely successful and consequently is not worth the risk. If the Giants have seen the last of a healthy Beason, they need to find a MLB. Neither Herzlich nor McClain are good enough to stop superior offenses.

that would be a major surprise.

In comment 12107691 chris r said:

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to a more reasonable contract?

Sure. But will he settle for the vet minimum.because he's not worth anything more because he's never healthy. Feel bad for any guy who gets hurt but that doesn't mean he's worth a roster spot unless it's a really one sided deal.

But I'm not TC or Spags, so if they think he can man the middle effectively, then who am I to disagree?

If the Giants really are intent on cutting Beason, replacing him in free agency won't come cheap. Brandon Spikes got $3 million from the Bills last year, and I'm sure they'd like to re-sign him and have him play alongside a healthy Kiko Alonso.

Bruce Carter is another UFA who should get some consideration, but do the Giants want to get into a bidding war with Jerry Jones, who will reportedly offer Carter a multi-year deal worth around $10 million? I don't think so.

It's too bad Mason Foster tore his Achilles last year. JR could have atoned for passing on Foster in favor of Jerrel Jernigan by signing him away from Tampa Bay, but that's not going to happen now.

Maybe it's a pride thing for him. He represents himself, so it's his call. If he digs his heels in, he's gone.

...isn't some of that money earned by being on the roster during the season?

In comment 12107790 pjcas18 said:

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missed XLII with a broken leg, just an FYI...I don't think you said differently necessarily.

Well aware...he broke the leg in late November against Dallas I think. That was the first year he switched positions..Reggie Torbor took over from that point

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Bruce Carter is another UFA who should get some consideration, but do the Giants want to get into a bidding war with Jerry Jones, who will reportedly offer Carter a multi-year deal worth around $10 million? I don't think so.

All 3 of the Cowboys starting LBers this season are free agents ( Durant, McClain,Carter), I doubt they get into a bidding war with anyone trying to keep all 3. Especially when they still have to resign Demarco and Dez.

No more, please!!!

In comment 12107694 MookGiants said:

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In comment 12107691 chris r said: Quote: to a more reasonable contract? Why even bother? It's time to move on from these often injured guys, dont even waste a roster spot on them. And he's so overrated it's not even funny. The Panthers traded him for next to nothing for a reason.

Agree with you Mook. Enough of hanging on to an era of defensive mediocrity. As to Kiwi, I don't recall whether it was Wilson or Newton who gave him a fake on a bootleg, Kiwi lost his jock, his legs crumbled, and it was sad to watch. Hell, I would have done a better job staying with the QB before he ran right by me.

Wonder if it's spags input that is coincidental with Vin_Cuccs source?

As he'd like to see him teamed up with a healthy Sean Lee. The Cowboys figure they can re-sign McClain relatively cheaply (he made $700,000 last year) because they don't think he'll generate much interest on the open market due to his history, and although they'd like to have Durant back, they don't think he's irreplaceable.

Regardless, starting-caliber UFA MLBs are few and far between this year, so moving Kennard over may be the most cost-effective move the Giants can make.

Kiwi is definitely gone--I could even see him retiring, especially if his latest surgery was significant enough for him to just not bother continuing.

Beason will probably have to take a pay cut, but I do not believe he will be sent packing this year. (2016 is another story, especially if he gets injured again.)

He does have $900K of his base guaranteed this year, but as others have noted, the roster bonus he's due is probably going to be adjusted/eliminated.

My guess is they will shave a couple million off his cap figure, maybe dropping his base down to $1M even, which is a hair over the top minimum salary for a veteran. But cutting him doesn't make sense, as if you're in a "win or else" mode, do you really want to plug an inexperienced player in that critical MLB spot?

Kiwi is in the final year of his deal, thus I don't believe he's eligible for the June 1 rule.

hey, in addition to the name game, you know your stuff as to who is doing what. Division wise at least.

Doing some UFA research...came across several articles in the local Dallas press, a few blog posts...nothing special.

That's exactly what I was thinking. Everybody thinks Coughlin hired Spags because he was trying to save his ass. Is putting a guy who hasn't played much because of injuries and when he was healthy didn't play MLB really Coughlin trying to save his job?

I'd be all for it though. Play your young guys TC. They saved your job this past season. There are a lot of LBs that play from the beginning and play extremely well. Just look at this year Anthony Barr, Khalil Mack, Chris Borland, Jamie Collins, CJ Mosley and I'm sure there are more. We need to get younger and more athletic at LB. I would be very happy to have McClain at SAM, Kennard at MIKE & a guy like Eric Kendricks at WILL. With Jacquian, Paysinger, Herzlich & a Free Agent backing them up.

than it means they are going LB in rd 2 I hope with either Kendricks or Perryman

In comment 12107953 GiantsFan84 said:

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than it means they are going LB in rd 2 I hope with either Kendricks or Perryman

No it doesn't. Not as long as Reese and Ross are running the show. Hell, the one time they did came back to bite them in the butt.

The Giants are less likely to draft Kendricks or Perryman and more likely to draft Taiwan Jones or Jake Ryan.

think its possible Spags reviewed the film + thought mcclain did a nice job at mlb last year. particularly pressuring the A-Gap which is something spags did a ton of with A.P. and Laurinaitis

cannot see reese cutting beason after giving him $6M guaranteed. that's a lot of $$$ for what amounts to a few weeks of actual work. as a business man can u justify that?

If Beason was cut then it would be very surprising if we didn't go LB in the top 2 rounds. Idc what we've done in the past. We didn't draft OL in the first round either according to most on here. Then we drafted Pugh which was our 1st Olineman selected in the 1st round since Luke Petitgout in 1999. Almost 15 years in between Olineman in the 1st.

Beason isn't great by any stretch of the imagination, but cutting him would leave us with nothing at LB. Herzlich, Paysinger & Williams are UFAs. Kennard missed a decent amount of time because on injury and he isn't a proven player. Cutting Beason would essentially leave us with 1 LB who can stay healthy and that is Jameel McClain. We would almost have to draft a LB in the 1st two rounds.

The Cowboys will have to get really creative with any deal if they are going to get into a bidding war. They have little cap room and Dez and Murray are their top priorities.

Herzlich - if he costs (cap wise) even $50 more than an late rd pick/UDFA, then you let him go. He was mediocre against the run, but awful against the pass, especially play action.

Kiwi - definitely gone

Beason - probably will get a chance for a restructure/paycut

Spags technically didn't "coach" him, but they should be somewhat familiar with one another.

and put it towards a legit starter or two guys with upside as replacements. They are both on the downside.

In comment 12107989 area junc said:

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think its possible Spags reviewed the film + thought mcclain did a nice job at mlb last year. particularly pressuring the A-Gap which is something spags did a ton of with A.P. and Laurinaitis cannot see reese cutting beason after giving him $6M guaranteed. that's a lot of $$$ for what amounts to a few weeks of actual work. as a business man can u justify that?

We need better coverage LBers bigtime. Kennard and MacLain seem to be good vs the run and maybe even both can be utilized as effective blitzers under Spags. But can either cover or play zone well? We'll likely need a hybrid safety. These types will be prime targets in FA or draft or both.

We used 2nd round picks on Snee (2004) and Beatty (2009), so a 1st round pick on Pugh (2012) and a 2nd on Richburg (2014) doesn't seem to be that much of a stretch.

Linebackers are a different story. Right or wrong, Reese and Ross just don't seem to value the position highly, at least as far as the draft goes, and that seems to be company policy through a variety of regimes. I would be shocked if the Giants used a 1st round pick on a LB, since that hasn't happened in 31 years (Banks, 1984).

In the 2nd round? Before Sintim (2009), which turned out to be a disastrous pick, you have to go all the way back to 1991 (Kanavis McGhee...another disaster). I believe there have been a handful of 3rd rounders, but I'm too lazy to do go and check.

Regardless of what happens with Beason, I expect (well, I hope) the Giants will upgrade their LB depth in free agency (I mentioned a couple of guys in an earlier post). That should help their special teams, too.

In the draft, as I wrote earlier, I expect them to do what they usually do...look for a good prospect or two in the mid-to-late rounds. Who knows? Maybe they'll get another Kennard?

I go back to how spags used a.p. and kawika mitchell in 07. KM was not your typical 43WLB. He started all 16 games at MLB for KC the previous year. Spags basically had 2 MLBs on the field with both blitzing and assuming the role of MLB when the other blitzed. Then the next year we used danny clark w similar credentials.


Think mcclain is of the same mold

least?

haha, wants to go on a firing spree...hehehe.

alien ambassadors indeed

In comment 12108069 idiotsavant said:

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haha, wants to go on a firing spree...hehehe. alien ambassadors indeed

What are you talking about? I don't want to re-sign marginal talents. I'd rather upgrade whenever possible.

A total shill for the GM. THE Giants decided years ago to go the. FA route and 4th round or later.

In the last 20 years 3 LBs in the first round. Sintim. Wilkinson and Ryan Pillipe. Now in 20 years 3 guys? Right or wrong the FO thinks that that position is no that important.

Ryan Phillippe was in Cruel Intentions. :D

Not much, a better 'backer than McGhee, Sintim, and most everyone else they've drafted for the middle line on D since then, which only goes to show how stinking bad the 'backers they have drafted in the last several years really are/were.

The list of LB Reese should have picked in the first couple of rounds vs who he actually did pick is who exactly.

You can't pick LB when there are so few you are in a position to draft. That is the reality.

at LB? He played a couple years there in College and might be able to make the transition back. Mind you it was a 3-4 and he was an outside LB (according to wiki).

But if you are going to look at the current roster and maybe move someone out. You can leave Ayers at DE with JPP.

In comment 12108117 stretch234 said:

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The list of LB Reese should have picked in the first couple of rounds vs who he actually did pick is who exactly. You can't pick LB when there are so few you are in a position to draft. That is the reality.

I was pissed when Reese drafted Jerrel Jernigan with Mason Foster still on the board.

you guys think this defense can be fixed in one year, and you have this illusion that Spags can make a slik purse out of a sow's ear....it ain't gonna happen....




Beason, when healthy, was the most critical element
GeofromNJ : 1/24/2015 5:18 pm : link : reply
in the Giants' defense. When he joined the team in 2013 he turned the entire season around.

Jon Beason gets too much credit for the defense last year....when he joined the team, it was in the Chicago game, which we lost.....then we played a string of 4 quarterbackless teams, and the defense padded their stats for the season.....harsh reality struck against Dallas, SD, and Seattle.....Beason showed what an "average" linebacker could do in run defense...because up to this point, we had no linebacker that was even average, so average looked great....in pass defense he was nothing special....

I think this team really turned around on defense, when Will Hill finally got out there.....the loss of Beason certainly hurt our rush defense this year, but how in the world, did he negotiate that contract on his own against Reese last year? With his history, that contract should have been laden with performance incentives that could only be achieved by being on the field...




Beason isn't great by any stretch of the imagination, but cutting him would leave us with nothing at LB. Herzlich, Paysinger & Williams are UFAs. Kennard missed a decent amount of time because on injury and he isn't a proven player. Cutting Beason would essentially leave us with 1 LB who can stay healthy and that is Jameel McClain. We would almost have to draft a LB in the 1st two rounds.

Guess what, we didn't have Beason last year and we survived, somehow, with what we had out there.....Anyone that thinks having Herz out there, is a possibility is nuts....If I'm the qb, and he is out there, I change the play and throw in his direction.....Kennard in the Middle? Based on what? He is not physical enough to play the position, and his ability to stay on the field is in question too....I don't think the Giants will have much of a problem replacing the likes of Williams, Paysinger, or Herz in the draft or free agency....McClain is serviceable for now....Hopefully, Kennard can progress, because he's not even an average linebacker at this moment....

Beason? Sorry, you renegotiate his contract, so that his base is lowered, and it's loaded with an incentive that based on his playing time....If he won't accept it, let him try the open market....

What BBI doesn't seem to realize is, yes, you can cut Kiwi and Beason, and save around 10M in cap space.....but guess what.....both are starters....those bodies are gone....can you get two starters for that amount of money? Let's say yes....so you have replaced two players with two players, who may or may not be better, and that 10M is now gone...

Hard decisions have to be made.....and I think the Giants are constantly in the "go for it now" mode.....which is all well and good, as long as the rest of the league is weak, like it was this year...problem is, if you spend the big bucks on Eli, JPP, Prince, etc., and mortgage your future, we will be back in the same cap boat again, with more water coming in than you can bail, out for the future.....we will find out if this front office has learned it's lesson...

In comment 12108310 Doomster said:

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you guys think this defense can be fixed in one year, and you have this illusion that Spags can make a slik purse out of a sow's ear....it ain't gonna happen.... Beason, when healthy, was the most critical element GeofromNJ : 1/24/2015 5:18 pm : link : reply in the Giants' defense. When he joined the team in 2013 he turned the entire season around. Jon Beason gets too much credit for the defense last year....when he joined the team, it was in the Chicago game, which we lost.....then we played a string of 4 quarterbackless teams, and the defense padded their stats for the season.....harsh reality struck against Dallas, SD, and Seattle.....Beason showed what an "average" linebacker could do in run defense...because up to this point, we had no linebacker that was even average, so average looked great....in pass defense he was nothing special.... I think this team really turned around on defense, when Will Hill finally got out there.....the loss of Beason certainly hurt our rush defense this year, but how in the world, did he negotiate that contract on his own against Reese last year? With his history, that contract should have been laden with performance incentives that could only be achieved by being on the field... Beason isn't great by any stretch of the imagination, but cutting him would leave us with nothing at LB. Herzlich, Paysinger & Williams are UFAs. Kennard missed a decent amount of time because on injury and he isn't a proven player. Cutting Beason would essentially leave us with 1 LB who can stay healthy and that is Jameel McClain. We would almost have to draft a LB in the 1st two rounds. Guess what, we didn't have Beason last year and we survived, somehow, with what we had out there.....Anyone that thinks having Herz out there, is a possibility is nuts....If I'm the qb, and he is out there, I change the play and throw in his direction.....Kennard in the Middle? Based on what? He is not physical enough to play the position, and his ability to stay on the field is in question too....I don't think the Giants will have much of a problem replacing the likes of Williams, Paysinger, or Herz in the draft or free agency....McClain is serviceable for now....Hopefully, Kennard can progress, because he's not even an average linebacker at this moment.... Beason? Sorry, you renegotiate his contract, so that his base is lowered, and it's loaded with an incentive that based on his playing time....If he won't accept it, let him try the open market.... What BBI doesn't seem to realize is, yes, you can cut Kiwi and Beason, and save around 10M in cap space.....but guess what.....both are starters....those bodies are gone....can you get two starters for that amount of money? Let's say yes....so you have replaced two players with two players, who may or may not be better, and that 10M is now gone... Hard decisions have to be made.....and I think the Giants are constantly in the "go for it now" mode.....which is all well and good, as long as the rest of the league is weak, like it was this year...problem is, if you spend the big bucks on Eli, JPP, Prince, etc., and mortgage your future, we will be back in the same cap boat again, with more water coming in than you can bail, out for the future.....we will find out if this front office has learned it's lesson...

Kiwi was possibly one of the worst starting DE's iin football last year. He did nothing and he won't on the team in 2015 unless he is willing to play for around the league minimum and accept a special teams / backup role. Jon Beason may re-negotiate given his injury history. I mean, his injury was freak bad luck so maybe he has a "bounceback" year left in him? I don't know but I wouldn't pay him full price at this point.

In comment 12108310 Doomster said:

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you guys think this defense can be fixed in one year, and you have this illusion that Spags can make a slik purse out of a sow's ear....it ain't gonna happen.... ...

Sure it can happen. Solidifying the OL, like Dallas, can help a defense a lot. The team did have a ton of injuires at DB. Yes, i see the issue at safety and the MIKE yet strengthening that #3 DT position can make up a lot of ground and cover up for holes.

that JPP gets tagged and the Giants look to the draft for LBs - early and often - in defiance of tradition.

If Walton goes too, then Cameron Erving might be a target in Round 2. Can play C, G, and RT. Giants love versatility on the OL.

In comment 12108310 Doomster said:

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you guys think this defense can be fixed in one year, and you have this illusion that Spags can make a slik purse out of a sow's ear....it ain't gonna happen.... Beason, when healthy, was the most critical element GeofromNJ : 1/24/2015 5:18 pm : link : reply in the Giants' defense. When he joined the team in 2013 he turned the entire season around. Jon Beason gets too much credit for the defense last year....when he joined the team, it was in the Chicago game, which we lost.....then we played a string of 4 quarterbackless teams, and the defense padded their stats for the season.....harsh reality struck against Dallas, SD, and Seattle.....Beason showed what an "average" linebacker could do in run defense...because up to this point, we had no linebacker that was even average, so average looked great....in pass defense he was nothing special.... I think this team really turned around on defense, when Will Hill finally got out there.....the loss of Beason certainly hurt our rush defense this year, but how in the world, did he negotiate that contract on his own against Reese last year? With his history, that contract should have been laden with performance incentives that could only be achieved by being on the field... Beason isn't great by any stretch of the imagination, but cutting him would leave us with nothing at LB. Herzlich, Paysinger & Williams are UFAs. Kennard missed a decent amount of time because on injury and he isn't a proven player. Cutting Beason would essentially leave us with 1 LB who can stay healthy and that is Jameel McClain. We would almost have to draft a LB in the 1st two rounds. Guess what, we didn't have Beason last year and we survived, somehow, with what we had out there.....Anyone that thinks having Herz out there, is a possibility is nuts....If I'm the qb, and he is out there, I change the play and throw in his direction.....Kennard in the Middle? Based on what? He is not physical enough to play the position, and his ability to stay on the field is in question too....I don't think the Giants will have much of a problem replacing the likes of Williams, Paysinger, or Herz in the draft or free agency....McClain is serviceable for now....Hopefully, Kennard can progress, because he's not even an average linebacker at this moment.... Beason? Sorry, you renegotiate his contract, so that his base is lowered, and it's loaded with an incentive that based on his playing time....If he won't accept it, let him try the open market.... What BBI doesn't seem to realize is, yes, you can cut Kiwi and Beason, and save around 10M in cap space.....but guess what.....both are starters....those bodies are gone....can you get two starters for that amount of money? Let's say yes....so you have replaced two players with two players, who may or may not be better, and that 10M is now gone... Hard decisions have to be made.....and I think the Giants are constantly in the "go for it now" mode.....which is all well and good, as long as the rest of the league is weak, like it was this year...problem is, if you spend the big bucks on Eli, JPP, Prince, etc., and mortgage your future, we will be back in the same cap boat again, with more water coming in than you can bail, out for the future.....we will find out if this front office has learned it's lesson...

The team isn't too far off, really.

And you are a ...wait for it...doomster?

He'd have accept a minimum ballpark deal to return thereafter.

I'd wager Beason will need to re-do his deal in a manner the team is ok with, otherwise he's probably a casualty as well.