Just a rumor, do not shoot the messenger.
From a source I have a good relationship with. He has been right in the past, and he has also been wrong in the past.
Recently, he nailed the Spagnuolo hire and Snee retirement.
He said the team will cut Beason and Kiwanuka to save cap space.
Again, this is just a rumor. If this has been posted, I will gladly delete.
Thought theyd give him 1 more chance w/mcclain as insurance.....couldve been an antonio pierce-like field general for spags. We will need a big time MLB now and i expect us to land one. Hoping for perryman
Why even bother? It's time to move on from these often injured guys, dont even waste a roster spot on them. And he's so overrated it's not even funny. The Panthers traded him for next to nothing for a reason.
Possibly Beason but imo, no way Kiwi is back. Reese has been upfront about his desire to see more playing time out of Moore and he is smart enough to know Coughlin will be too loyal to Kiwi.
I know that's the general belief, but wasn't Zak DeOssie, on paper at least, a linebacker in 07 and 08? He wasn't just a long snapper from day 1.
It's 50/50. The Giants will save $3 million in space and have $3 million in dead money.
*****Interesting though - all NFL teams MUST spend 89% of their cap dollar will real money rather than "Air or dead money" which makes this offseason very interesting league wide.
limits the dead space (this year) to $5M combined (vs $6.4M) and cap savings of $9.8M as opposed to pre June 1 cut cap savings of $8.3M
subject to optimus confirmation..
If Beason gets cut I would be very surprised. LB would be immediately become one of if not our biggest need. Jacquian is a free agent. Herzlich and Payson Germany are ok at best. Kennard has definitely flashed, but he was hurt a lot. Who knows if we can trust him?
We will need a DEs and LBs with or without these guys gone.
If that is the case, Beason is definitely expendible, and they won't be drafting Perryman or any other ILB in early rounds. They'll be looking for outside LBs.
And that would allow them to spend an early pick, say a 2 or a 3, on a Safety if there's one there that they like.
Phlegm-- I considered DeOssie, but figured since he's no longer part of the defense, he's irrelevant as far as the return of Spags is concerned.
That is a very interesting proposition. I don't know if the Giants are ready to hand the defense over to Kennard, and you could argue that they might lose out on his pass rush ability; however, he has the athleticism to play sideline to sideline, and it means McClain can stay outside.
Starting trio next year...
ROLB - McClain
MLB - Kennard
LOLB - Herzlich (don't laugh, he only plays the base and is a much better LOLB than MLB. Position still needs an upgrade though.)
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missed XLII with a broken leg, just an FYI...I don't think you said differently necessarily.
Yeah, he missed the latter half of 2007, but he was healthy for all of 2008, so he was with Spags at the beginning and the end of his first tenure with the Giants.
Phlegm-- I considered DeOssie, but figured since he's no longer part of the defense, he's irrelevant as far as the return of Spags is concerned.
Yes, no disagreement, I was just mentioning the SB miss in response to the poster who said Kiwi was a part of the defense that won 2 SB's.
As for Kiwi he has quite a bit of wear and tear at this point and doesn't seem to be an impactfull pass rusher anymore.
These moves along with extending Eli will give us the necessary cap space for JPP and a few more decent imports from FA.
That is a very interesting proposition. I don't know if the Giants are ready to hand the defense over to Kennard, and you could argue that they might lose out on his pass rush ability; however, he has the athletiticism to play sideline to sideline, and it means McClain can stay outside.
Starting trio next year...
ROLB - McClain
MLB - Kennard
LOLB - Herzlich (don't laugh, he only plays the base and is a much better LOLB than MLB. Position still needs an upgrade though.)
Depending on FA, I could see a round 2-4 LB brought in if the value is there: Perryman, Stephone Anthony, Paul Dawson as examples.
I just don't see how we go Her zilch again.
and in 2008 when he came back he was a DE and stayed there until JPP was drafted and then he played "the joker" splitting time between LB and DE.
He was always a liability in coverage and I would not call it a successful experiment. I think it was done more out of necessity do to holes at LB and "to get the best players on the field".
I hope they don't start out as plan A with putting a player in an unfamiliar position and hoping it works.
That is a very interesting proposition. I don't know if the Giants are ready to hand the defense over to Kennard, and you could argue that they might lose out on his pass rush ability; however, he has the athleticism to play sideline to sideline, and it means McClain can stay outside.
Starting trio next year...
ROLB - McClain
MLB - Kennard
LOLB - Herzlich (don't laugh, he only plays the base and is a much better LOLB than MLB. Position still needs an upgrade though.)
If Herzlich stays, it means Giants have done a thing in FA or the draft to improve the LB corps. Would be a crime. The guy is terrible, an average back up at best.
Maybe it was wishful thinking, but I saw a lot of positive from Herzlich the 2nd half of the season in his limited snaps.
He made some plays in the run game.
I have no issue with him on the roster, as long as he's the last guy active on game day kind of player, not in the top 22 or rotational backup guy.
If pressed into action for a run play or 2, I don't think you're exposed, but when he is forced into extended action, teams can take advantage of him - especially in coverage.
Yes please!
Beason I'm a little surprised at,1 and done after signing a new contract is ruthless,but that's not it.Surprised because of the money and the other options on the team.There are none,and I don't think Reese can be relied upon to find a linebacker.
You can do two post June 1 cuts per year.
limits the dead space (this year) to $5M combined (vs $6.4M) and cap savings of $9.8M as opposed to pre June 1 cut cap savings of $8.3M
subject to optimus confirmation..
I read this the same way. According to Over the Cap, it won't matter if Kiwi is a pre- or post- June 1 cut, the savings will be the same.
I would not re-sign Herzlich, and instead make an offer to Andrew Gachkar (SD). He can do everything Herzlich can - core special-teamer, spot starter - but a little bit better, and he's two years younger. Akeem Dent (HOU) would be my second choice.
I wouldn't re-sign Paysinger, either. I'd make an offer to Chris White (NE) or Larry Dean (BUF).
As for the draft, I still don't see the Giants using a premium pick on a linebacker. I figure they'll do what they usually do and look for LBs in the mid-to-late rounds.
actually Mike in Philly is right, Kiwi is the same pre or post June 1, so they only need 1 post-june 1 cut (beason)
Kiwi is definitely gone.
Sure. But will he settle for the vet minimum.because he's not worth anything more because he's never healthy. Feel bad for any guy who gets hurt but that doesn't mean he's worth a roster spot unless it's a really one sided deal.
If the Giants really are intent on cutting Beason, replacing him in free agency won't come cheap. Brandon Spikes got $3 million from the Bills last year, and I'm sure they'd like to re-sign him and have him play alongside a healthy Kiko Alonso.
Bruce Carter is another UFA who should get some consideration, but do the Giants want to get into a bidding war with Jerry Jones, who will reportedly offer Carter a multi-year deal worth around $10 million? I don't think so.
It's too bad Mason Foster tore his Achilles last year. JR could have atoned for passing on Foster in favor of Jerrel Jernigan by signing him away from Tampa Bay, but that's not going to happen now.
Well aware...he broke the leg in late November against Dallas I think. That was the first year he switched positions..Reggie Torbor took over from that point
All 3 of the Cowboys starting LBers this season are free agents ( Durant, McClain,Carter), I doubt they get into a bidding war with anyone trying to keep all 3. Especially when they still have to resign Demarco and Dez.
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to a more reasonable contract?
Why even bother? It's time to move on from these often injured guys, dont even waste a roster spot on them. And he's so overrated it's not even funny. The Panthers traded him for next to nothing for a reason.
Agree with you Mook. Enough of hanging on to an era of defensive mediocrity. As to Kiwi, I don't recall whether it was Wilson or Newton who gave him a fake on a bootleg, Kiwi lost his jock, his legs crumbled, and it was sad to watch. Hell, I would have done a better job staying with the QB before he ran right by me.
Wonder if it's spags input that is coincidental with Vin_Cuccs source?
Regardless, starting-caliber UFA MLBs are few and far between this year, so moving Kennard over may be the most cost-effective move the Giants can make.
Beason will probably have to take a pay cut, but I do not believe he will be sent packing this year. (2016 is another story, especially if he gets injured again.)
He does have $900K of his base guaranteed this year, but as others have noted, the roster bonus he's due is probably going to be adjusted/eliminated.
My guess is they will shave a couple million off his cap figure, maybe dropping his base down to $1M even, which is a hair over the top minimum salary for a veteran. But cutting him doesn't make sense, as if you're in a "win or else" mode, do you really want to plug an inexperienced player in that critical MLB spot?
I'd be all for it though. Play your young guys TC. They saved your job this past season. There are a lot of LBs that play from the beginning and play extremely well. Just look at this year Anthony Barr, Khalil Mack, Chris Borland, Jamie Collins, CJ Mosley and I'm sure there are more. We need to get younger and more athletic at LB. I would be very happy to have McClain at SAM, Kennard at MIKE & a guy like Eric Kendricks at WILL. With Jacquian, Paysinger, Herzlich & a Free Agent backing them up.
No it doesn't. Not as long as Reese and Ross are running the show. Hell, the one time they did came back to bite them in the butt.
The Giants are less likely to draft Kendricks or Perryman and more likely to draft Taiwan Jones or Jake Ryan.
cannot see reese cutting beason after giving him $6M guaranteed. that's a lot of $$$ for what amounts to a few weeks of actual work. as a business man can u justify that?
Beason isn't great by any stretch of the imagination, but cutting him would leave us with nothing at LB. Herzlich, Paysinger & Williams are UFAs. Kennard missed a decent amount of time because on injury and he isn't a proven player. Cutting Beason would essentially leave us with 1 LB who can stay healthy and that is Jameel McClain. We would almost have to draft a LB in the 1st two rounds.
Herzlich - if he costs (cap wise) even $50 more than an late rd pick/UDFA, then you let him go. He was mediocre against the run, but awful against the pass, especially play action.
Kiwi - definitely gone
Beason - probably will get a chance for a restructure/paycut
cannot see reese cutting beason after giving him $6M guaranteed. that's a lot of $$$ for what amounts to a few weeks of actual work. as a business man can u justify that?
We need better coverage LBers bigtime. Kennard and MacLain seem to be good vs the run and maybe even both can be utilized as effective blitzers under Spags. But can either cover or play zone well? We'll likely need a hybrid safety. These types will be prime targets in FA or draft or both.
Linebackers are a different story. Right or wrong, Reese and Ross just don't seem to value the position highly, at least as far as the draft goes, and that seems to be company policy through a variety of regimes. I would be shocked if the Giants used a 1st round pick on a LB, since that hasn't happened in 31 years (Banks, 1984).
In the 2nd round? Before Sintim (2009), which turned out to be a disastrous pick, you have to go all the way back to 1991 (Kanavis McGhee...another disaster). I believe there have been a handful of 3rd rounders, but I'm too lazy to do go and check.
Regardless of what happens with Beason, I expect (well, I hope) the Giants will upgrade their LB depth in free agency (I mentioned a couple of guys in an earlier post). That should help their special teams, too.
In the draft, as I wrote earlier, I expect them to do what they usually do...look for a good prospect or two in the mid-to-late rounds. Who knows? Maybe they'll get another Kennard?
Think mcclain is of the same mold
alien ambassadors indeed
alien ambassadors indeed
What are you talking about? I don't want to re-sign marginal talents. I'd rather upgrade whenever possible.
In the last 20 years 3 LBs in the first round. Sintim. Wilkinson and Ryan Pillipe. Now in 20 years 3 guys? Right or wrong the FO thinks that that position is no that important.
You can't pick LB when there are so few you are in a position to draft. That is the reality.
But if you are going to look at the current roster and maybe move someone out. You can leave Ayers at DE with JPP.
You can't pick LB when there are so few you are in a position to draft. That is the reality.
I was pissed when Reese drafted Jerrel Jernigan with Mason Foster still on the board.
Beason, when healthy, was the most critical element
GeofromNJ : 1/24/2015 5:18 pm : link : reply
in the Giants' defense. When he joined the team in 2013 he turned the entire season around.
Jon Beason gets too much credit for the defense last year....when he joined the team, it was in the Chicago game, which we lost.....then we played a string of 4 quarterbackless teams, and the defense padded their stats for the season.....harsh reality struck against Dallas, SD, and Seattle.....Beason showed what an "average" linebacker could do in run defense...because up to this point, we had no linebacker that was even average, so average looked great....in pass defense he was nothing special....
I think this team really turned around on defense, when Will Hill finally got out there.....the loss of Beason certainly hurt our rush defense this year, but how in the world, did he negotiate that contract on his own against Reese last year? With his history, that contract should have been laden with performance incentives that could only be achieved by being on the field...
Beason isn't great by any stretch of the imagination, but cutting him would leave us with nothing at LB. Herzlich, Paysinger & Williams are UFAs. Kennard missed a decent amount of time because on injury and he isn't a proven player. Cutting Beason would essentially leave us with 1 LB who can stay healthy and that is Jameel McClain. We would almost have to draft a LB in the 1st two rounds.
Guess what, we didn't have Beason last year and we survived, somehow, with what we had out there.....Anyone that thinks having Herz out there, is a possibility is nuts....If I'm the qb, and he is out there, I change the play and throw in his direction.....Kennard in the Middle? Based on what? He is not physical enough to play the position, and his ability to stay on the field is in question too....I don't think the Giants will have much of a problem replacing the likes of Williams, Paysinger, or Herz in the draft or free agency....McClain is serviceable for now....Hopefully, Kennard can progress, because he's not even an average linebacker at this moment....
Beason? Sorry, you renegotiate his contract, so that his base is lowered, and it's loaded with an incentive that based on his playing time....If he won't accept it, let him try the open market....
What BBI doesn't seem to realize is, yes, you can cut Kiwi and Beason, and save around 10M in cap space.....but guess what.....both are starters....those bodies are gone....can you get two starters for that amount of money? Let's say yes....so you have replaced two players with two players, who may or may not be better, and that 10M is now gone...
Hard decisions have to be made.....and I think the Giants are constantly in the "go for it now" mode.....which is all well and good, as long as the rest of the league is weak, like it was this year...problem is, if you spend the big bucks on Eli, JPP, Prince, etc., and mortgage your future, we will be back in the same cap boat again, with more water coming in than you can bail, out for the future.....we will find out if this front office has learned it's lesson...
Beason, when healthy, was the most critical element
GeofromNJ : 1/24/2015 5:18 pm : link : reply
in the Giants' defense. When he joined the team in 2013 he turned the entire season around.
Jon Beason gets too much credit for the defense last year....when he joined the team, it was in the Chicago game, which we lost.....then we played a string of 4 quarterbackless teams, and the defense padded their stats for the season.....harsh reality struck against Dallas, SD, and Seattle.....Beason showed what an "average" linebacker could do in run defense...because up to this point, we had no linebacker that was even average, so average looked great....in pass defense he was nothing special....
I think this team really turned around on defense, when Will Hill finally got out there.....the loss of Beason certainly hurt our rush defense this year, but how in the world, did he negotiate that contract on his own against Reese last year? With his history, that contract should have been laden with performance incentives that could only be achieved by being on the field...
Beason isn't great by any stretch of the imagination, but cutting him would leave us with nothing at LB. Herzlich, Paysinger & Williams are UFAs. Kennard missed a decent amount of time because on injury and he isn't a proven player. Cutting Beason would essentially leave us with 1 LB who can stay healthy and that is Jameel McClain. We would almost have to draft a LB in the 1st two rounds.
Guess what, we didn't have Beason last year and we survived, somehow, with what we had out there.....Anyone that thinks having Herz out there, is a possibility is nuts....If I'm the qb, and he is out there, I change the play and throw in his direction.....Kennard in the Middle? Based on what? He is not physical enough to play the position, and his ability to stay on the field is in question too....I don't think the Giants will have much of a problem replacing the likes of Williams, Paysinger, or Herz in the draft or free agency....McClain is serviceable for now....Hopefully, Kennard can progress, because he's not even an average linebacker at this moment....
Beason? Sorry, you renegotiate his contract, so that his base is lowered, and it's loaded with an incentive that based on his playing time....If he won't accept it, let him try the open market....
What BBI doesn't seem to realize is, yes, you can cut Kiwi and Beason, and save around 10M in cap space.....but guess what.....both are starters....those bodies are gone....can you get two starters for that amount of money? Let's say yes....so you have replaced two players with two players, who may or may not be better, and that 10M is now gone...
Hard decisions have to be made.....and I think the Giants are constantly in the "go for it now" mode.....which is all well and good, as long as the rest of the league is weak, like it was this year...problem is, if you spend the big bucks on Eli, JPP, Prince, etc., and mortgage your future, we will be back in the same cap boat again, with more water coming in than you can bail, out for the future.....we will find out if this front office has learned it's lesson...
...
Sure it can happen. Solidifying the OL, like Dallas, can help a defense a lot. The team did have a ton of injuires at DB. Yes, i see the issue at safety and the MIKE yet strengthening that #3 DT position can make up a lot of ground and cover up for holes.
If Walton goes too, then Cameron Erving might be a target in Round 2. Can play C, G, and RT. Giants love versatility on the OL.
Beason, when healthy, was the most critical element
GeofromNJ : 1/24/2015 5:18 pm : link : reply
in the Giants' defense. When he joined the team in 2013 he turned the entire season around.
Jon Beason gets too much credit for the defense last year....when he joined the team, it was in the Chicago game, which we lost.....then we played a string of 4 quarterbackless teams, and the defense padded their stats for the season.....harsh reality struck against Dallas, SD, and Seattle.....Beason showed what an "average" linebacker could do in run defense...because up to this point, we had no linebacker that was even average, so average looked great....in pass defense he was nothing special....
I think this team really turned around on defense, when Will Hill finally got out there.....the loss of Beason certainly hurt our rush defense this year, but how in the world, did he negotiate that contract on his own against Reese last year? With his history, that contract should have been laden with performance incentives that could only be achieved by being on the field...
Beason isn't great by any stretch of the imagination, but cutting him would leave us with nothing at LB. Herzlich, Paysinger & Williams are UFAs. Kennard missed a decent amount of time because on injury and he isn't a proven player. Cutting Beason would essentially leave us with 1 LB who can stay healthy and that is Jameel McClain. We would almost have to draft a LB in the 1st two rounds.
Guess what, we didn't have Beason last year and we survived, somehow, with what we had out there.....Anyone that thinks having Herz out there, is a possibility is nuts....If I'm the qb, and he is out there, I change the play and throw in his direction.....Kennard in the Middle? Based on what? He is not physical enough to play the position, and his ability to stay on the field is in question too....I don't think the Giants will have much of a problem replacing the likes of Williams, Paysinger, or Herz in the draft or free agency....McClain is serviceable for now....Hopefully, Kennard can progress, because he's not even an average linebacker at this moment....
Beason? Sorry, you renegotiate his contract, so that his base is lowered, and it's loaded with an incentive that based on his playing time....If he won't accept it, let him try the open market....
What BBI doesn't seem to realize is, yes, you can cut Kiwi and Beason, and save around 10M in cap space.....but guess what.....both are starters....those bodies are gone....can you get two starters for that amount of money? Let's say yes....so you have replaced two players with two players, who may or may not be better, and that 10M is now gone...
Hard decisions have to be made.....and I think the Giants are constantly in the "go for it now" mode.....which is all well and good, as long as the rest of the league is weak, like it was this year...problem is, if you spend the big bucks on Eli, JPP, Prince, etc., and mortgage your future, we will be back in the same cap boat again, with more water coming in than you can bail, out for the future.....we will find out if this front office has learned it's lesson...
And you are a ...wait for it...doomster?
I'd wager Beason will need to re-do his deal in a manner the team is ok with, otherwise he's probably a casualty as well.