Because even though Shelton is a good player , he's a run stuffing DT. The giants already have one in Hankins.
What they need is a pass rushing DT to compliment Hankins. With that being the case , If all the good DE's are gone , don't be surprised if they take Eddie Goldman DT Florida state.
Walter football has him going at the #14 pick , and he's a pass rush DT.
However if any of the top DE's are available , like Gregory , Fowler , or Shane Ray , don't be surprised if they nab one of those guys first....
David, I'd argue that Joseph was a more important piece than DRC, and that we were getting gashed up the middle dues to terrible play by our off DT, AND our lack of a MLB. But Joseph would have been a big part of the solution here. Instead we have to once again draft a DT in the first few rounds. That sucks. Joseph to Hankins to Bromley to ???
With what money?
Um do you watch the Giants. Joseph signed his deal last year in 2014. And the Giants could have easily used the $$$ they gave Beason last offseason. Maybe they would have had to do some other work but what are you talking about for the last Super Bowl team and a 2014 FA?
Shelton has nothing to do with Hankins.. They will need replacements for Jenkins and Patterson as well as an upgrade over Kuhn..
Just like Cofield, Joseph wasn't staying here for what he was worth. That isn't reese - that is NFL Economics 101
You dont overpay for guys who are basically two down run stuffers..
Hankins is showing that he is more than that..
Shelton has nothing to do with Hankins.. They will need replacements for Jenkins and Patterson as well as an upgrade over Kuhn..
Why so people purposefully try to lie.
He got a long term deal and they front loaded his contract. The Goants could have matched his the guaranteed money Fine they chose not to but its absolute bull shit to pull out that 9 million for 2014 as the reason why they didn't sign him. He got a 5 year deal w 12.5 guaranteed. But thanks for being another Jerry Reese shill. Like we need more of those here.
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and OL
With what money?
With all the cap space in 2016. Finance him. It's easy
He got a long term deal and they front loaded his contract. The Goants could have matched his the guaranteed money Fine they chose not to but its absolute bull shit to pull out that 9 million for 2014 as the reason why they didn't sign him. He got a 5 year deal w 12.5 guaranteed. But thanks for being another Jerry Reese shill. Like we need more of those here.
It is a simple Economic decision that you are trying to turn into people being "shills" for the GM?
What does that make you - a poster who thinks he knows better than the GM and proudly displays his stupidity in trying to prove it?
The giants were not keeping Joseph without putting themselves in a cap-poor situation. That isn't a lie- that is a fact. A fact most NFL teams face, especially ones with Franchise QB's who rightfully occupy a lot of cap space.
In calling people shills, it would be damn nice if you at least had a perspective of NFL Economics.
Paea is rated as the second best free agent DT behind Suh, I doubt he comes cheap but I would definitely love the signing.
Some numbers for you...
Passing attempts 17,879 - total yards 121,247
Rushing attempts 13,688 - total yards 57,002
Passing Tds - 807
Rushing Tds - 380
I understand what your point is, but that was 15-20 years ago. Now you see so much 3-4 Wrs sets, your number 3 Wr is basically a starter now. Its a different era.
I have no idea what direction we'll go in as far as the draft goes. We really won't until we get through the free agency period, but if we can't get to the QB with a good pass rush then it won't matter.
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Sign Stephen Paea.
Paea is rated as the second best free agent DT behind Suh, I doubt he comes cheap but I would definitely love the signing.
I may be in the minority, but I'd rather not spend any free agent money on the O-Line, and instead use it to bolster the defense (and maybe sign a TE, too). D-Line and Safety would be my top priorities.
i would even rate a WR ahead of DT in terms of need jerrnigan is likely gone,randle only does anything the last month of the year to keep his spot and they dont know how that injury to cruz could affect him and they need someone to ease the pressure and focus on beckham
this giants team won its superbowls be out muscling teams on the OL and DL,they have got away from that the last few years pugh,hankins and richberg are a start now lets finish the lines rebuild be devoting the majority of FA and draft picks to strengthing the trenches and upgrading at LB and S where they have got old,injured and softer for too long
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you remember those teams Jacksonville had under Tom? Henderson and Stroud? What about Kevin and Pat Williams in Minnesota? Or Siragusa and Adams in Baltimore? Having two very good and very big DTs makes all the difference in the world.
Exactly right. This is the BS we heard last year when we let Joseph walk. Then Reese reached for Bromley and our defense sucked again.
Geez, give Bromley a chance. In his limited playing time, I thought he got penetration, had several hurries against starting OG's. He only played in 8 games and didn't start any of them. Hankins didn't start a game in 2013, played in 11 games and had 0 sacks! Would you chastize his selection too???
Bromley was basically redshirted for the season, the same for Hankins in his 1st year. You have no basis for the evaluation you present on Bromley. And there were comments made (forgat what articles) about Bromley beating starting OL-men to hurry the QB. I see nothing to indicate he won't be as good in his 2nd year as Hankins in his. Neither player recorded a sack in their 1st year. IMHO.
As JonC and others mentioned at 9 , Reese will likely only go for a lineman who can play LT.
Is there a guy out there that will rank among the other premium impact positions at 9? I think Peat and maybe La'El Collins. Then less of a possibility but Flowers and maybe Clemmings may show enough to warrant consideration. Combine may shed some more light.
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win and lose in the trenches, and for the foreseeable future we will be dealing with a very strong Dallas OL. Hankins needs help, and if he goes down, we're really screwed. Jenkins and Patterson aren't getting it done, and at least one won't be back. Bromley is more for passing downs, Kuhn for ST. DT is an immediate need. Shelton or Davis please.
Bromley was basically redshirted for the season, the same for Hankins in his 1st year. You have no basis for the evaluation you present on Bromley. And there were comments made (forgat what articles) about Bromley beating starting OL-men to hurry the QB. I see nothing to indicate he won't be as good in his 2nd year as Hankins in his. Neither player recorded a sack in their 1st year. IMHO.
Giants seem to trust their thorough scouting evaluations and will stick with a high draft pick longer than most. They knew Bromley was slightly developmental , I think they are still quite high on him and expect bigger things from him in year 2.
(hint: NO)
I think its a mistake to confidently infer a drafting philosophy with so few data points. Would you have guessed Wilson or Pugh? Everyone said the Giants don't value RB or OL highly because they hadn't taken one in the first round for awhile. I think you may be doing the same thing.
They simply do not value DTs that high in drafts. Late 1st? Historically no. They clearly slot DT value starting in the early 2nd round, and Reese has stated as such in the past.
DT historically carries a high bust rate, and Reese has yet to hand a market rate contract to a drafted DT. Hankins figures to possibly be the first.
Not definitive, but "unlikely" isn't unreasonable.
They value premium positions (QB, DE, WR, LT, CB) at premium draft slots (evaluated per draft and indicated on their draft board), and Pugh and Wilson were both picked after the premiums didn't intersect, imv. Neither position (RT or RB) would have been picked in the true premium range of either draft.
thats just my gut feeling..
Apparently, according to everyone but TMS.
How anyone could've watched this team last year and be stuck on LJ walking being a major problem is beyond me.
I don't think we should overlook this guy just because he is a DT if he's the best impact player available.
They simply do not value DTs that high in drafts. Late 1st? Historically no. They clearly slot DT value starting in the early 2nd round, and Reese has stated as such in the past.
DT historically carries a high bust rate, and Reese has yet to hand a market rate contract to a drafted DT. Hankins figures to possibly be the first.
Not definitive, but "unlikely" isn't unreasonable.
They value premium positions (QB, DE, WR, LT, CB) at premium draft slots (evaluated per draft and indicated on their draft board), and Pugh and Wilson were both picked after the premiums didn't intersect, imv. Neither position (RT or RB) would have been picked in the true premium range of either draft.
Jon, didn't the Giants say after drafting Pugh that they believed he could play LT too?
I fully concur with the above. I see very little chance (unless they deviate from their drafting patterns) that they draft a non-LT OL at 9.
This is why we won't see Scherff here but possibly Collins,Peat, Flowers and a lesser chance of Clemmings (if too developmental)
As for DT,agreed the bust rate is high. However if they see that rare player who has a sky high value, can pass rush, and is as close to a 'sure thing' they may deviate. Don't know if Shelton fits that lofty standard.
DE's as have been discussed, don't seem to fit the Giant prototype for a top pick.
No CB seems to be a shutdown Corner to warrant the #9 nor a Safety.
Eli has a few more years and has been extremely durable, so still a year or two early to pull the trigger at QB.
So chances are barring trade-down, this is very likely a WR or Lineman with potential NFL LT ability.
At that point, I'd agree it's clear they could look at non-premium positions, and we know for sure that NYG drafts men they really like and will even overdraft them.
I'd agree it's quite possible they just go OL or WR at #9, but there's plenty of evaluations coming soon.
I'm not shilling for Shelton here, just sort of thinking outloud about what this draft may look like if the Giants do indeed find a trade partner and back out of the top ten.
At that point, I'd agree it's clear they could look at non-premium positions, and we know for sure that NYG drafts men they really like and will even overdraft them.
You think they still see Pugh as a potential LT? He had a bit of a down year but it sounded like he was playing hurt (and all lineman struggled with the new offense for a while).
Also for all the talk of FA lineman, if they add one and pay him a starter's salary (Franklin, Iupati, Barksdale, Boling) I just don't envision how they could go OL at 9 unless they are cutting someone.
I believe Reese has mentioned they expect their first rounders to start from day 1 in some capacity.
Do they get a guy in Free Agency like Franklin who can play OG and RT, then if a highly rated LT falls to 9, cut Beatty after the draft? Or pick up a depth guy with eyes solely on a high round OG or OT likely in round 1 or 2.
OK so:
Beatty-Pugh-Richburg-Scwartz-FA RT
where does the #9 pick LT go?
I prefer this plan the most actually but would Gmen let their #9 pick essentially red-shirt his rookie year?
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they wouldn't need to spend on a FA OG, (they're going to give Pugh and Schwartz every chance to succeed at the OGs in this scenario) and they will have drafted WB's successor.
I prefer this plan the most actually but would Gmen let their #9 pick essentially red-shirt his rookie year?
Not preferable, but a legit prospect might be able to unseat WB before very long.