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Rumor: Walton to be cut as well

Vin_Cuccs : 1/24/2015 9:03 pm
Again, just a rumor, do not shoot the messenger.

From the same source as before. He has been right in the past, and he has also been wrong in the past.

Just to elaborate on my source: a very, very close friend of mine is an attorney in the city. A few of the other attorneys in that office double as sports agents so they have some inside info and connections with their clients as well as other sports agents.

Anyway, he said the team will also cut J.D. Walton in an attempt to save cap space. Apparently the plan all along was to integrate Richburg slowly into the lineup. Walton was a veteran option just in case but when injuries hit the line, he was forced into the starting line as a guard. The team felt more comfortable with Richburg at guard than center. The plan moving forward is Richburg a center.

Again, this is just a rumor.

My guy said he may have some more info tonight/tomorrow as well as later in the offseason as well.

As long a everyone is alright with these unconfirmed rumors, I will keep posting them as I get them.
We're  
AcidTest : 1/24/2015 9:05 pm : link
fine with them. Even if they turn out to be wrong. Keep going. Thanks.
thanks, definitely  
pjcas18 : 1/24/2015 9:05 pm : link
keep posting them.

Anyone that has a problem with them doesn't have to click the thread, you are very clear this is a rumor.

so far the three cuts you mentioned, many people on here have speculated about so there not much surprise with these.
Graziano posted Beason and Walton were possible  
Jints in Carolina : 1/24/2015 9:05 pm : link
cuts earlier today so I am not sure how much of this is inside info...but thanks.
keep em coming  
WeatherMan : 1/24/2015 9:06 pm : link
I hope this one is right, Walton was part of the problem last season.
RE: keep em coming  
Danny Kanell : 1/24/2015 9:07 pm : link
In comment 12108056 WeatherMan said:
Quote:
I hope this one is right, Walton was part of the problem last season.


Agreed.
Thanks Vin  
sjnyfan : 1/24/2015 9:10 pm : link
.
When did they say Suh was in the plans?  
Giants2012 : 1/24/2015 9:11 pm : link
Get the best DT
oh and keep posting the rumors!  
Jints in Carolina : 1/24/2015 9:13 pm : link
.
Thanks Vin  
Matt in SGS : 1/24/2015 9:14 pm : link
this all sounds very logical if you look at what the Giants have done the past few years. One of the first moves they make in the offseason, after they settle the coaching staff, is they look at the injury prone/over priced veterans and clear them out almost immediately. It does two things, it frees up cap space right away for free agency, but also it helps these guys either go look for another job, or set up for a renegotiation at a lower cap hit.

Beason, Kiwi, and Walton all fit the bill that you have described.
I dunno-  
mrvax : 1/24/2015 9:16 pm : link
Who would be Richburg's backup? Not sure of anyone ele that can fill in at center with any NFL experience. Can Schwartz do it? Even then, you don't want to disrupt 2 positions should Richburg go down.
Amazing that Walton and Jerry  
bceagle05 : 1/24/2015 9:17 pm : link
started every game last year and Eli lived to tell about it. Guess they were better pass blockers than run blockers.
to be honest  
Matt in SGS : 1/24/2015 9:18 pm : link
and I like the guy and he's been a positive member of the Giants and in the community, but Steve Weatherford is due to be over a $3 million cap hit. That's a big chunk of change for a punter. I know he renegotiated his deal a year or so back, but I could see the Giants looking to move him on and bringing in a punter at less money. Or, knowing how much he has been setting up his post-football life in the NY media, they might outright cut him and bring him back at a lower salary, because it would be worth it to him and his family to stay.
RE: I dunno-  
Klaatu : 1/24/2015 9:21 pm : link
In comment 12108072 mrvax said:
Quote:
Who would be Richburg's backup? Not sure of anyone ele that can fill in at center with any NFL experience. Can Schwartz do it? Even then, you don't want to disrupt 2 positions should Richburg go down.


My guess is Adam Gettis.
None of these rumored cuts  
illmatic : 1/24/2015 9:22 pm : link
would bother me in the slightest. Get rid of the average, overpaid players and clear that cap space.
Walton is terrible.  
arcarsenal : 1/24/2015 9:22 pm : link
Let's hope it's true.
Thanks for sharing  
rdt288 : 1/24/2015 9:23 pm : link
-
If the cut Walton it's because  
LauderdaleMatty : 1/24/2015 9:24 pm : link
He can't back up at any other position than C. He's not that expensive but if Richberg is. Going to C whoever is the back up C he will also have to be a back up a G.
RE: to be honest  
Fish : 1/24/2015 9:25 pm : link
In comment 12108075 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
and I like the guy and he's been a positive member of the Giants and in the community, but Steve Weatherford is due to be over a $3 million cap hit. That's a big chunk of change for a punter. I know he renegotiated his deal a year or so back, but I could see the Giants looking to move him on and bringing in a punter at less money. Or, knowing how much he has been setting up his post-football life in the NY media, they might outright cut him and bring him back at a lower salary, because it would be worth it to him and his family to stay.


Better have a replacement in place that's steady. I can't go through having a bad punter again. Lol.
I  
AcidTest : 1/24/2015 9:25 pm : link
know this sounds crazy, but I wonder if Herman won't be given a chance to make the team as a backup center. I think I read that the Giants were having him learn the position. The other options of course are to get a veteran backup, or draft a center late. The former seems more likely.
Matt in SGS  
Vin_Cuccs : 1/24/2015 9:25 pm : link
Agree on Weatherford. Awesome and funny guy but his play has declined the past few years. I wonder if Malone has a legitimate shot to beat him out over the summer.

Malone was pretty solid when he was with the Jets.
People complain  
Dave in Buffalo : 1/24/2015 9:26 pm : link
But I love this time of the year. Let the asshatery begin!!!
His played  
Fish : 1/24/2015 9:26 pm : link
Declined because of a bum ankle.
I do understand that none of these moves are earth shattering.  
Vin_Cuccs : 1/24/2015 9:27 pm : link
But I wanted to share the info anyways.
so why the fuck did they not give Richburg  
SHO'NUFF : 1/24/2015 9:27 pm : link
any burn at Center when the games didn't matter?
Fish  
Vin_Cuccs : 1/24/2015 9:27 pm : link
I know he was injured but even two years ago he had a pretty mediocre season.
RE: If the cut Walton it's because  
pjcas18 : 1/24/2015 9:29 pm : link
In comment 12108082 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
He can't back up at any other position than C. He's not that expensive but if Richberg is. Going to C whoever is the back up C he will also have to be a back up a G.


they save $3M on the cap if they cut Walton, with minimal dead space (relatively speaking).

That's enough to cut him even if they do want to re-sign him as a backup. I don't think most teams are paying 3.6M for a backup O-lineman.
a bum ankle because Quinn, who apparently is made of Teflon,  
SHO'NUFF : 1/24/2015 9:30 pm : link
couldn't protect him.
And at 3 million I agree  
Fish : 1/24/2015 9:32 pm : link
It makes sense but must have a decent replacement.
Vin ...  
Beer Man : 1/24/2015 9:35 pm : link
Its the off-season and we are thirsty for information. Please keep it coming.
RE: I do understand that none of these moves are earth shattering.  
River Mike : 1/24/2015 9:41 pm : link
In comment 12108089 Vin_Cuccs said:
Quote:
But I wanted to share the info anyways.


Sharing is good.
RE: so why the fuck did they not give Richburg  
blueblood : 1/24/2015 10:04 pm : link
In comment 12108090 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
any burn at Center when the games didn't matter?


who was going to play left guard ??
Could see this happening  
Pat from Inside Football : 1/24/2015 10:37 pm : link
I also could see Weatherford being asked to take a pay cut, but I don't think he gets lopped off the roster. I would also be stunned if Beason is lopped off the roster.

I would think that management would give Beason & Weatherford a chance to take a pay cut. If they refuse, then they're gone. But I'd be surprised if that happens.
Hasn't Herman practiced at center? And Reynolds  
ij_reilly : 1/24/2015 10:45 pm : link
I think Herman has been tried at center (not in a game, obviously).

Dallas Reynolds is a center too.

So, we could be looking at OC depth chart of Richburg, Reynolds, Herman.


I can see the Walton thing happening  
Mike in Philly : 1/24/2015 10:55 pm : link
because like Kiwi, as stated in a previous thread, the cap savings for Walton does not change regardless if it is a pre- or post- June 1st. But for Beason, waiting for post June 1st is worth another 1.5 million in cap space.
RE: Could see this happening  
AcidTest : 1/24/2015 11:25 pm : link
In comment 12108156 Pat from Inside Football said:
Quote:
I also could see Weatherford being asked to take a pay cut, but I don't think he gets lopped off the roster. I would also be stunned if Beason is lopped off the roster.

I would think that management would give Beason & Weatherford a chance to take a pay cut. If they refuse, then they're gone. But I'd be surprised if that happens.


I would let Beason go, but wouldn't at all be surprised if he's first asked to take a pay cut. Same for Weatherford, although I'm sure the Giants appreciate how he gutted it out on a bad ankle last season. I frankly thought they should have put him on IR once the season was done.
you can sign a vet backup center  
blueblood : 1/24/2015 11:35 pm : link
for less than 3 million
Clearing cap space  
TMS : 1/24/2015 11:41 pm : link
to give Reese another chance at fixing this mess on the Ol and elsewhere. Maybe this time the FA replacements can remain healthy enough to do some good. Unless they are losers their teams just wanted rid of. This front office does not get good grades in this area for the last 5/6 years.
nice work Vin  
HomerJones45 : 1/24/2015 11:42 pm : link
Keep them coming and thanks
Goodnight J.D.  
Stufftherun : 1/25/2015 12:08 am : link
...
This is a risky cut if true.....  
Dry Lightning : 1/25/2015 12:17 am : link
I don't think Walton is a horrible center. I think he graded out as average all season. No question the team should upgrade, and Richburg needs to play. I just don't think it is a horrible idea to keep him around next year, even at his salary. We have no depth on the line. What if Richburg gets hurt? Also remember this guy did not play for two years. Perhaps he improves with a year to knock off the rust. I would not cu him unless and until viable depth is obtained.
I question these rumors  
Milton : 1/25/2015 12:44 am : link
Only because I think there is a middle ground between letting Walton, Kiwanuka, and Beason play under their current contracts and cutting them outright. Would you cut Walton if he agreed to play under a minimum salary this year (with perhaps playing time incentives included)? And the same goes for Beason and Kiwi.

In other words, Vin's lawyer-friends could have news that the Giants have no intention of letting any of the three play under their current contracts, but that doesn't necessarily mean they will be cut (re-negotiations are also a possibility).
John Jerry should be resigned  
EliMcAdoo2015 : 1/25/2015 1:12 am : link
As a 6th man at worst - Schwartz insurance

2 yrs $2 million

Can play guard and RT
Thanks, Vinny!  
Anakim : 1/25/2015 1:18 am : link
Another non-shocker. Walton and Kiwanuka were awful last year. They deserve to be cut
RE: John Jerry should be resigned  
Anakim : 1/25/2015 1:19 am : link
In comment 12108214 EliMcAdoo2015 said:
Quote:
As a 6th man at worst - Schwartz insurance

2 yrs $2 million

Can play guard and RT


No
RE: John Jerry should be resigned  
WeatherMan : 1/25/2015 1:19 am : link
In comment 12108214 EliMcAdoo2015 said:
Quote:
As a 6th man at worst - Schwartz insurance

2 yrs $2 million

Can play guard and RT

I wouldn't give him one red cent. The man cannot handle a stunt to save his life.
RE: John Jerry should be resigned  
MookGiants : 1/25/2015 1:26 am : link
In comment 12108214 EliMcAdoo2015 said:
Quote:
As a 6th man at worst - Schwartz insurance

2 yrs $2 million

Can play guard and RT


Put down the bottle.

I can play guard and RT. So can you, so can anyone on this board. Doesn't mean we can play it well enough to belong on the roster.

John Jerry sucks as a starter, and he sucks as depth. If the NFL gave a one time exemption where he could play for free and only take up a roster space, no money, I still wouldnt want him.

He is versatile in the sense that he sucks everywhere he plays.
How Jerry sucked for every game except against Aaron Donald and the  
Anakim : 1/25/2015 2:44 am : link
Rams is a huge mystery.
RE: How Jerry sucked for every game except against Aaron Donald and the  
EliMcAdoo2015 : 1/25/2015 3:15 am : link
In comment 12108228 Anakim said:
Quote:
Rams is a huge mystery.



Except he didn't.

RE: RE: John Jerry should be resigned  
EliMcAdoo2015 : 1/25/2015 3:16 am : link
In comment 12108218 MookGiants said:
Quote:
In comment 12108214 EliMcAdoo2015 said:


Quote:


As a 6th man at worst - Schwartz insurance

2 yrs $2 million

Can play guard and RT



Put down the bottle.

I can play guard and RT. So can you, so can anyone on this board. Doesn't mean we can play it well enough to belong on the roster.

John Jerry sucks as a starter, and he sucks as depth. If the NFL gave a one time exemption where he could play for free and only take up a roster space, no money, I still wouldnt want him.

He is versatile in the sense that he sucks everywhere he plays.



Wrong.
Jerry was extremely stout in Pass-protection  
EliMcAdoo2015 : 1/25/2015 3:19 am : link
In every game except the 9ers game (a clear outlier as it was the worst game of his career)

He's also been a starting RG in a WCO all 48 games the last 3 seasons.

RE: I can see the Walton thing happening  
Optimus-NY : 1/25/2015 3:23 am : link
In comment 12108167 Mike in Philly said:
Quote:
because like Kiwi, as stated in a previous thread, the cap savings for Walton does not change regardless if it is a pre- or post- June 1st. But for Beason, waiting for post June 1st is worth another 1.5 million in cap space.


You don't have to wait for June 1st to make someone a June 1st cut. Teams can designate up to two players as post June 1st cuts prior to that date.
RE: RE: John Jerry should be resigned  
EliMcAdoo2015 : 1/25/2015 3:26 am : link
In comment 12108217 WeatherMan said:
Quote:
In comment 12108214 EliMcAdoo2015 said:


Quote:


As a 6th man at worst - Schwartz insurance

2 yrs $2 million

Can play guard and RT


I wouldn't give him one red cent. The man cannot handle a stunt to save his life.



Based on one game playing next to the worst turnstile in NFL history (Charles Brown in 9ers game)??

LOL outside of that 1 game (which had more to do with Brown than Jerry) Jerry didn't struggle with stunts AT ALL.

Stop making up lies.
Jerry was the best pass-blocker the Giants had in 2014  
EliMcAdoo2015 : 1/25/2015 3:35 am : link
Among all the starters.

Nobody on the OL held up better in protection than Jerry, nobody.

The massive upgrade in Pass-protection at the RG spot from David Diehl to John Jerry had everything to do with Eli having a clean pocket up the middle that he didn't have last year. Look at the efficient season Eli had as a result.

Pass-protection was a STRENGTH of the O-Line save for when Charlie Brown and James Brewer had to come in and play. Jerry had a lot to do with that.
A couple notes on Jerry  
EliMcAdoo2015 : 1/25/2015 3:52 am : link
1. Did not commit a single pass-holding penalty All YEAR. Not one.

2. Only allowed 3 sacks at RG all year. 1 in the Colts game (happened when the game was already out of reach), 1 in the 49ers game next to Charlie Brown (by far his worst game as a pro), 1 in the Jags game next to James Brewer.

In the 14 games where Jerry was the RG and either Pugh/Schwartz was the RT (aka someone who isn't garbage like Brown/Brewer), Jerry allowed one, I repeat, ONE, sack.


But yeah, let's make up lies and pretend Jerry didn't do a great job overall of protecting Eli.
RE: RE: RE: John Jerry should be resigned  
WeatherMan : 1/25/2015 3:57 am : link
In comment 12108233 EliMcAdoo2015 said:
Quote:
In comment 12108217 WeatherMan said:


Quote:


In comment 12108214 EliMcAdoo2015 said:


Quote:


As a 6th man at worst - Schwartz insurance

2 yrs $2 million

Can play guard and RT


I wouldn't give him one red cent. The man cannot handle a stunt to save his life.




Based on one game playing next to the worst turnstile in NFL history (Charles Brown in 9ers game)??

LOL outside of that 1 game (which had more to do with Brown than Jerry) Jerry didn't struggle with stunts AT ALL.

Stop making up lies.

Bullshit. Quotes from BBI game reviews this last season:

Vs. Lions:
Quote:
The biggest take away from the film was that Suh simply beat Jerry off the ball too many times and caught him off guard.


Vs. Cardinals:
Quote:
A few plays later, the right side of the offensive line, Justin Pugh, John Jerry, and Walton seemed to be confused by a stunt as Eli was sacked on 3rd-and-7.


Vs. Colts:
Quote:
On the next series, John Jerry failed to pick up a stunt on 3rd-and-12 and Eli had to throw the ball away.


Vs. Seahawks:
Quote:
Look at the following back-to-back offensive plays where Eli is under immediate pressure as first Will Beatty, then John Jerry, completely whiff (and I do mean whiff) on their blocks.


Vs. 49ers:
Quote:
That said, some of Brown’s problems in pass protection were also caused by RG John Jerry’s poor game. Both VETERAN linemen played like they had never seen a stunt before and got in each others way.


Vs. Cowboys:
Quote:
The line came up small on the last desperate drive as Schwartz was bull-rushed twice into Eli’s face and then Jerry let his man blow by him to hit Manning.


Vs. Jaguars:
Quote:
I was underwhelmed by the run blocking, particularly by RG John Jerry (as inconsistent as they come and responsible for too many negative plays; he doesn’t sustain or completely misses too many blocks; he also is easily confused by stunts and blitzes),


Vs. Titans:
Quote:
The two weak spots remain OC J.D. Walton and RG John Jerry. For example, on the only New York drive in the first half that did not result in points, Walton’s bad block on 1st-and-10 led to a 1-yard loss. On 2nd-and-11, Manning had to quickly unload the ball as Jerry’s man blew past him to hit Manning as he threw the ball. Jerry gave up another quick pressure in the second quarter.


He is a terrible football player unworthy of even a depth position. As far as lies, come at me with facts next time - you may be new here, so know this - I don't post anything without having done my homework.
I never knew  
Emil : 1/25/2015 4:10 am : link
There were John Jerry defenders out there.

I think Beatty was better in pass pro than Jerry this year.

Jerry is an average to above average pass protector and absolutely dreadful run blocker. He generates no push. His performance this year is impossible to defend. The greatest asset he provided was health. Walton and Jerry were non-factors in the run game and liabilities in pass pro. The only linemen who were worse were the Brown and Brewer. There is only one way to settle this though, break out the PFT grades.

All that said, he does provide versatility and could get an invite to camp, but I think it would be at Vet min. No one is going to pay this guy and no one should. He has no real value.
RE: RE: RE: RE: John Jerry should be resigned  
EliMcAdoo2015 : 1/25/2015 4:15 am : link
In comment 12108239 WeatherMan said:
Quote:
In comment 12108233 EliMcAdoo2015 said:


Quote:


In comment 12108217 WeatherMan said:


Quote:


In comment 12108214 EliMcAdoo2015 said:


Quote:


As a 6th man at worst - Schwartz insurance

2 yrs $2 million

Can play guard and RT


I wouldn't give him one red cent. The man cannot handle a stunt to save his life.




Based on one game playing next to the worst turnstile in NFL history (Charles Brown in 9ers game)??

LOL outside of that 1 game (which had more to do with Brown than Jerry) Jerry didn't struggle with stunts AT ALL.

Stop making up lies.


Bullshit. Quotes from BBI game reviews this last season:

Vs. Lions:

Quote:


The biggest take away from the film was that Suh simply beat Jerry off the ball too many times and caught him off guard.



Vs. Cardinals:

Quote:


A few plays later, the right side of the offensive line, Justin Pugh, John Jerry, and Walton seemed to be confused by a stunt as Eli was sacked on 3rd-and-7.



Vs. Colts:

Quote:


On the next series, John Jerry failed to pick up a stunt on 3rd-and-12 and Eli had to throw the ball away.



Vs. Seahawks:

Quote:


Look at the following back-to-back offensive plays where Eli is under immediate pressure as first Will Beatty, then John Jerry, completely whiff (and I do mean whiff) on their blocks.



Vs. 49ers:

Quote:


That said, some of Brown’s problems in pass protection were also caused by RG John Jerry’s poor game. Both VETERAN linemen played like they had never seen a stunt before and got in each others way.



Vs. Cowboys:

Quote:


The line came up small on the last desperate drive as Schwartz was bull-rushed twice into Eli’s face and then Jerry let his man blow by him to hit Manning.



Vs. Jaguars:

Quote:


I was underwhelmed by the run blocking, particularly by RG John Jerry (as inconsistent as they come and responsible for too many negative plays; he doesn’t sustain or completely misses too many blocks; he also is easily confused by stunts and blitzes),



Vs. Titans:

Quote:


The two weak spots remain OC J.D. Walton and RG John Jerry. For example, on the only New York drive in the first half that did not result in points, Walton’s bad block on 1st-and-10 led to a 1-yard loss. On 2nd-and-11, Manning had to quickly unload the ball as Jerry’s man blew past him to hit Manning as he threw the ball. Jerry gave up another quick pressure in the second quarter.



He is a terrible football player unworthy of even a depth position. As far as lies, come at me with facts next time - you may be new here, so know this - I don't post anything without having done my homework.



Again, you might have missed my last post.

1. Allowed just 1 sack in 14 games when he had a competent RT next to him (Pugh for 13 games, Schwartz in the Dallas game)

2. Committed 0 pass-holding penalties the entire year.
RE: I never knew  
EliMcAdoo2015 : 1/25/2015 4:17 am : link
In comment 12108242 Emil said:
Quote:
There were John Jerry defenders out there.

I think Beatty was better in pass pro than Jerry this year.

Jerry is an average to above average pass protector and absolutely dreadful run blocker. He generates no push. His performance this year is impossible to defend. The greatest asset he provided was health. Walton and Jerry were non-factors in the run game and liabilities in pass pro. The only linemen who were worse were the Brown and Brewer. There is only one way to settle this though, break out the PFT grades.

All that said, he does provide versatility and could get an invite to camp, but I think it would be at Vet min. No one is going to pay this guy and no one should. He has no real value.



Beatty benefitted from Jerry as well.

Jerry allowed Eli to drift right and step up in the pocket.

This allowed Beatty to ride his DE along the edge, a luxury he did not have in 2013.

A strong pass-blocking RG will make the LT's job easier, for certain.
and you clearly did not read what I posted  
WeatherMan : 1/25/2015 4:19 am : link
Viability of a player cannot be judged by the number of flags the maddeningly inconsistent refs throw, nor by the number of sacks attributed to them when they are rather often not the fault of one individual. A theme of the season, oft recognized in post game review, was that Jerry was a part of the problem and particularly incapable of dealing with stunts. This was not confined to games played with a RT other than Pugh.
RE: and you clearly did not read what I posted  
EliMcAdoo2015 : 1/25/2015 4:23 am : link
In comment 12108245 WeatherMan said:
Quote:
Viability of a player cannot be judged by the number of flags the maddeningly inconsistent refs throw, nor by the number of sacks attributed to them when they are rather often not the fault of one individual. A theme of the season, oft recognized in post game review, was that Jerry was a part of the problem and particularly incapable of dealing with stunts. This was not confined to games played with a RT other than Pugh.



1 sack allowed in 14 games when he played next to a competent RT

0 pass-holding penalties the entire year


Men lie, women lie, numbers don't.

You have no case except nitpicking 1 or 2 plays from certain games.
Anybody can nitpick 1 or 2 plays from selective games  
EliMcAdoo2015 : 1/25/2015 4:27 am : link
Really you accomplished absolutely nothing with your post.

The fact still stands: John Jerry gave up ONE sack in 2014 when he didn't have Charles Brown or James Brewer next to him at RT, all while committing ZERO holding penalties in the pass game all year.

To suggest that Jerry wasn't a good pass-blocker just makes you a complete ignorant fool.
the inability to see beyond your own perspective  
WeatherMan : 1/25/2015 4:32 am : link
when half the season was cited is not in your favor. I'm done for the night, best of luck to you. On the OL: Beatty had a solid year. Richburg was decent for a rookie. Walton was weak at the point of attack and is the definition of replaceable. Jerry sucked and was maddeningly inconsistent. Pugh stepped back from his rookie performance, hopefully the injury was the primary reason for that, though playing next to an inconsistent shit clearly didn't help.
Geoff Schwartz quote  
EliMcAdoo2015 : 1/25/2015 4:52 am : link
According to NFL right guard Geoff Schwartz on Twitter, teams undervalue the right guard role.

"[You] must have a great pass blocking RG so the QB can step up to allow Ts to ride DEs around the edge," Schwartz said. "Most QBs are right handed and slowly drift right without knowing it. Most schemes slide left 75% of the time to protect the blind side. The RG and RT [are] most often on an island."

http://www.patspulpit.com/2014/10/14/6974053/the-value-of-a-great-right-guard-why-every-patriots-right-guard-is
There was plenty of evidence  
Stufftherun : 1/25/2015 6:01 am : link
that Jerry struggled and that's putting it politely. I just don't believe he's athletic enough to handle the responsibilities of the postion and there's no question we all witnessed that over the course of the season.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: There was plenty of evidence  
EliMcAdoo2015 : 1/25/2015 7:09 am : link
In comment 12108259 Stufftherun said:
Quote:
that Jerry struggled and that's putting it politely. I just don't believe he's athletic enough to handle the responsibilities of the postion and there's no question we all witnessed that over the course of the season. Link - ( New Window )


He struggled in the run game, not in the pass game. He was a consistently stout pass-blocker.
Sorry to say, but at this point,  
Big Blue '56 : 1/25/2015 7:52 am : link
Kiwi is JAG and I would rather not re-sign him at any cost..
And Weatherford is not going anywhere..  
Big Blue '56 : 1/25/2015 7:54 am : link
When healthy, he's clutch...If necessary, they'll work things out..He is absolutely in NO danger, imho
I have an idea.....  
Doomster : 1/25/2015 7:56 am : link
Let's cut everyone who stunk up the joint and couldn't stay on the field, last year....let the clean up begin...
John Jerry as depth  
Big Blue '56 : 1/25/2015 7:58 am : link
would be solid, imo..we could do far worse and needlessly spend far more money than he would get
RE: RE: I can see the Walton thing happening  
Mike in Philly : 1/25/2015 8:10 am : link
In comment 12108232 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:
In comment 12108167 Mike in Philly said:


Quote:


because like Kiwi, as stated in a previous thread, the cap savings for Walton does not change regardless if it is a pre- or post- June 1st. But for Beason, waiting for post June 1st is worth another 1.5 million in cap space.



You don't have to wait for June 1st to make someone a June 1st cut. Teams can designate up to two players as post June 1st cuts prior to that date.

Thanks Optimus. I had forgotten that detail.
I can see Jerry as dept  
Emil : 1/25/2015 8:11 am : link
As he would be a big upgrade over Brewer, but that's not really a ringing endorsement of Jerry at all. I don't think it's any secret Jerry is a better pass blocker than run blocker, but if his pass blocking ability is arguably a B his run blocking ability is an absolute F. As long as he isn't in the starting lineup next year I'll be happy.

I know he can backup as a Guard and RT, but does anyone know if he can be a backup at LT too? The Giants typically don't just discard OL that can play two positions. It's one of the few reasons Brewer has hung on this long.

Any effort to defend Jerry as a "good" or "solid" player is unsupportable, but if the case you are trying to make is that he is quality depth, then you have a valid point.
RE: John Jerry should be resigned  
NYG4246 : 1/25/2015 8:28 am : link
In comment 12108214 EliMcAdoo2015 said:
Quote:
As a 6th man at worst - Schwartz insurance

2 yrs $2 million

Can play guard and RT



I wouldnt pay him in shit and squirrels.
Vin  
JonC : 1/25/2015 8:57 am : link
Keep 'em coming, a grain of salt and all that in terms of final reality.

They're going to trim veteran fat in order to preserve enough cap space to go into UFA looking for OL and defense, otherwise this roster will not be much better than 8-9 wins at best again next season, not unlike last season.
Are we talking  
Doomster : 1/25/2015 8:58 am : link
"squirrel candy" here?
let it be so  
ColHowPepper : 1/25/2015 9:58 am : link
and wtf does this say about Reese's "makeover" in 2014? If Reese were running a hedge fund his clients would have demanded their money back years ago. Maybe somebody else has stepped in circa April 2014 and is running the p/f?
RE: Hasn't Herman practiced at center? And Reynolds  
dguy901 : 1/25/2015 9:58 am : link
In comment 12108161 ij_reilly said:
Quote:
I think Herman has been tried at center (not in a game, obviously).

Dallas Reynolds is a center too.

So, we could be looking at OC depth chart of Richburg, Reynolds, Herman.


Herman practiced at center throughout training camp last year. You don't carry 3 centers and Reynolds was inadequate trying to play the guard position, he is a goner. I would like to see Herman in a game playing guard. He has to have a good football IQ to even have been considered for Center and he was a beast as a guard in college. I just hope he isn't another Petrus. JMHO.
RE: John Jerry as depth  
MookGiants : 1/25/2015 10:00 am : link
In comment 12108280 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
would be solid, imo..we could do far worse and needlessly spend far more money than he would get


Guys who suck are not solid depth. If they suck you don't ever want them on the field, and John Jerry unquestionably sucks. Bad players are bad players, they belong off the roster
CHP  
JonC : 1/25/2015 10:02 am : link
I think a lot of fans held on too tightly to the UFA signings a year ago. Many were one year deals and vet stopgaps they hoped would generate enough chemistry to create a team that could at least qualify for the playoffs.

Injuries helped wreck what I projected was probably an 8-9 win team at best. The 2014 roster was really only built for one year because that's all it could be optimized for. They did what they could with limited resources and a limited talent pool to draw from, imv.

I'm not sure there's more vet talent available this offseason, but the draft will provide a boost and the core levels will build on another year of experience, weight training, etc.
Jerry  
AcidTest : 1/25/2015 10:08 am : link
was better, or more accurately less bad, as a pass blocker than a run blocker. But he was absolutely atrocious as the latter. PFF says he was the worst run blocker on the team, and gave him a grade of -16.4. Walton got a -11.4. Richburg -8.7.

I wouldn't resign Jerry. Even if there's a legitimate argument about his pass blocking, his run blocking was so bad it negates anything positive he did or might do in pass protection.

Link
Im shocked there are John jerry defenders!  
Joey from GlenCove : 1/25/2015 10:14 am : link
And I thought I've seen everything
RE: John Jerry as depth  
Jay on the Island : 1/25/2015 10:31 am : link
In comment 12108280 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
would be solid, imo..we could do far worse and needlessly spend far more money than he would get


I couldn't agree more. I am grateful for his time here and he has done everything asked of him. With that said he just doesn't make any plays anymore and Coughlin continues to start him rather than give the younger kids who actually do make plays a chance.
Sorry I replied to the wrong comment  
Jay on the Island : 1/25/2015 10:32 am : link
I was referring to Kiwanuka not being brought back.
RE: Im shocked there are John jerry defenders!  
Mike in NY : 1/25/2015 10:38 am : link
In comment 12108369 Joey from GlenCove said:
Quote:
And I thought I've seen everything


His run blocking is atrocious but you need depth OL who won't get your QB killed and he does that
You have seen Herman in a game,  
Doomster : 1/25/2015 10:57 am : link
and that is why he passed waivers and made it to the practice squad, two years in a row.....he was a 7th round project pick.....you know, the ones the Giants are famous for, that collect a check and don't contribute...
Jerry isn't a must sign for depth  
fkap : 1/25/2015 4:24 pm : link
but he wouldn't be a bad signing. You're not going find solid starters willing to ride the pine for low dollars. Jerry may not be good as a starter, but he's he's not that far off from being a bottom tier starter, and he has lots of experience. that's really all you can expect from a vet backup.

as depth, I'd rather have some young draft pick who is revving up to replace the starters in a year or two, but we've shit the bed big time in developing youngsters outside of the top picks, so for this year most of our depth is going to have be found in this years draft or FA.



Walton wasn't the worst signing ever, but he did get a decent signing bonus for a show me contract, and from all reports was pretty pathetic. I don't think he was signed with the idea of being a one year player. It's a no brainer, though, that he's not coming back at his current cap hit, and questionable that he'd be back even at minimum. Ideally, you want a guy who can back up multiple positions.

Barring Beason not healing well, and presuming he'd be willing to waive the big roster bonus he's due in a month, it would be somewhat shocking to see him cut outright.
I just dont see the Giants going into next season with one viable LT  
Coach Mason : 1/25/2015 4:53 pm : link
This more or less comes down to what they think of Pugh as a LT. When they originally drafted him they said they believed he could play the position.

I think he can be an all pro guard and above average RT but don't know if he has the skillset for LT.

If the Giants feel differently then maybe they wouldn't be sunk should Beatty underwhelm or get injured again.

But if not,they need another LT. Many of this year OL FAs while versatile, aren't guys who can play LT even in a pinch.

Will this come via draft or FA?

RE: I question these rumors  
TMS : 1/25/2015 7:26 pm : link
In comment 12108210 Milton said:
Quote:
Only because I think there is a middle ground between letting Walton, Kiwanuka, and Beason play under their current contracts and cutting them outright. Would you cut Walton if he agreed to play under a minimum salary this year (with perhaps playing time incentives included)? And the same goes for Beason and Kiwi.

In other words, Vin's lawyer-friends could have news that the Giants have no intention of letting any of the three play under their current contracts, but that doesn't necessarily mean they will be cut (re-negotiations are also a possibility).
Good points. These are expansive rumors without any details. Possibly a reduction in their current contract value or else scenarios.
can't believe a lawyer unless you are paying them a lot of money and  
plato : 1/26/2015 11:32 am : link
even then its not a sure thing
JonC  
ColHowPepper : 1/26/2015 11:42 am : link
ooops, just seeing your reply now; I guess I got distracted.

Yours is a point with some validity, but how did R&R get the roster in this position just to churn mediocre FA picks? Because they left the OF a rather complete s..tshow. I'm confused too why the fix would be attempted if they knew it was short term or less in duration. Not a healthy sign of how they are approaching weak areas of the roster.
RE: JonC  
JonC : 1/26/2015 11:48 am : link
In comment 12109792 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
ooops, just seeing your reply now; I guess I got distracted.

Yours is a point with some validity, but how did R&R get the roster in this position just to churn mediocre FA picks? Because they left the OF a rather complete s..tshow. I'm confused too why the fix would be attempted if they knew it was short term or less in duration. Not a healthy sign of how they are approaching weak areas of the roster.


CHP, no argument from me, I think it's quite clear Reese did not do a very good job in the '11-12 years overall. They rested on their laurels and were fooled by the last SB run. Imo. They started to get to work two years ago and it probably takes 3-4 offseasons to retool a roster fully.

We're looking at 2016 to perhaps contend, imv.
If we cut Walton, then who is the backup center?  
BeerFridge : 1/26/2015 12:54 pm : link
Someone cheaper? I wonder how much money this would actually save if we need to bring in a replacement anyway.
RE: If we cut Walton, then who is the backup center?  
giants#1 : 1/26/2015 1:04 pm : link
In comment 12109937 BeerFridge said:
Quote:
Someone cheaper? I wonder how much money this would actually save if we need to bring in a replacement anyway.


You can probably get a Boothe-level starter for ~$1M and certainly for $2M (total cap hit). Walton is currently slated to cost $3.625M against the cap with only $625k in dead money if cut. So if you can get a comparable (or better) backup for even $2M cap hit, you save $1M in cap money ($3.625 - $625k dead money - $2M for new FA = $1M savings for backup OC).

Only way it's not a no brainer is if they think Walton is a more capable backup then whoever they'd get (hard to imagine that's the case from what we saw).
in case that post isn't clear  
giants#1 : 1/26/2015 1:05 pm : link
Even if the Giants spent $2M (cap wise) on a backup OC/OG, cutting Walton would still net them $1M in cap savings for 2015.
and in light of some recent deals (e.g. Bennett)  
giants#1 : 1/26/2015 1:10 pm : link
this was actually a pretty shrewd "prove it" deal by Reese and co. It didn't work out, but if Walton looked good (or even average), they would've had him on a very good deal for this season and it was structured such that if it didn't work out, they could cut him immediately and move on (with a minor $625k dead money hit).
I just don't see OC Walton being cut  
SGMen : 1/26/2015 2:10 pm : link
He knows the offense. He played all season. He'd be a back-up at OC and maybe OG. I mean if you could get a better back-up wouldn't he want to go somewhere he may start and possibly get more money in the future? Richburg is our starter??

Now, Kiwanuka is clearly gone.

LB Beason is a maybe in my book. I think Beason may be approached about a pay cut to stay. I still think Beason could have a bounce-back year.

Walton likely doesn't have much upside at this point but again I stress how much better of a back-up are you going to get at this point?
RE: I just don't see OC Walton being cut  
giants#1 : 1/26/2015 2:14 pm : link
In comment 12110060 SGMen said:
Quote:
He knows the offense. He played all season. He'd be a back-up at OC and maybe OG. I mean if you could get a better back-up wouldn't he want to go somewhere he may start and possibly get more money in the future? Richburg is our starter??

Now, Kiwanuka is clearly gone.

LB Beason is a maybe in my book. I think Beason may be approached about a pay cut to stay. I still think Beason could have a bounce-back year.

Walton likely doesn't have much upside at this point but again I stress how much better of a back-up are you going to get at this point?


Look at it this way. If Walton isn't cut, he'll count an additional $3M against the cap (unless he accepts a paycut). Thus, it comes down to 2 things for me:

1. Can you find a comparable backup C for <$3M?
2. Can you find someone that can backup both G and C?

And since I think they can absolutely find a Boothe level guy for <$3M cap hit, I think it's unlikely Walton is back unless he takes a straight up pay cut.
RE: I just don't see OC Walton being cut  
Coach Mason : 1/26/2015 2:25 pm : link
In comment 12110060 SGMen said:
Quote:
He knows the offense. He played all season. He'd be a back-up at OC and maybe OG. I mean if you could get a better back-up wouldn't he want to go somewhere he may start and possibly get more money in the future? Richburg is our starter??

Now, Kiwanuka is clearly gone.

LB Beason is a maybe in my book. I think Beason may be approached about a pay cut to stay. I still think Beason could have a bounce-back year.

Walton likely doesn't have much upside at this point but again I stress how much better of a back-up are you going to get at this point?


Exactly as a back up this could work but only if he takes a paycut (unless the salary for this year is already pretty low).

Beason for nothing much more than minimum. His injury frequency the last few years is extremely high.
RE: RE: I just don't see OC Walton being cut  
giants#1 : 1/26/2015 2:33 pm : link
In comment 12110089 Coach Mason said:
Quote:
In comment 12110060 SGMen said:


Quote:


He knows the offense. He played all season. He'd be a back-up at OC and maybe OG. I mean if you could get a better back-up wouldn't he want to go somewhere he may start and possibly get more money in the future? Richburg is our starter??

Now, Kiwanuka is clearly gone.

LB Beason is a maybe in my book. I think Beason may be approached about a pay cut to stay. I still think Beason could have a bounce-back year.

Walton likely doesn't have much upside at this point but again I stress how much better of a back-up are you going to get at this point?



Exactly as a back up this could work but only if he takes a paycut (unless the salary for this year is already pretty low).

Beason for nothing much more than minimum. His injury frequency the last few years is extremely high.


His salary for 2015 currently stands at $2.25M + a $750k roster bonus (likely due first week of the "league year"). So in total his salary for this year is essentially $3M which is quite high for a backup.
Jerry  
djm : 1/26/2015 5:12 pm : link
could be one of those Giants that everyone bashes for a year or two before everyone gets on board and accepts him for what he is. HE's not a bad player and he doesn't make that much money. He's also a bit versatile. We need another KEvin Boothe...
Jerry's a FA  
giants#1 : 1/26/2015 5:15 pm : link
giving another deal comparable to last year's would be ok, provided they bring in someone else to start. Jerry would be adequate as the primary backup OG. As a starter, he's below average.
RE: thanks, definitely  
OC2.0 : 1/27/2015 10:44 am : link
In comment 12108054 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
keep posting them.

Anyone that has a problem with them doesn't have to click the thread, you are very clear this is a rumor.

so far the three cuts you mentioned, many people on here have speculated about so there not much surprise with these.


Bingo. Score 1 for VC. Absolutely keep going. Anything this time of the year is of interest. Hope your friends right. We need to shed dead weight.
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