NFT: MLB contemplates outlawing the shift

The position players should be able to position themselves in the best defensive position for each batter under every scenario.

they need to do something, every year baseball becomes more boring to watch. Its annoying watching guys hit rockets into the shift that should be hits and the 2nd basemen throws them out from right field

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for the lukewarm baseball fan, the sort that determines whether a WS gets a 6 share or a 12 share, two of the foremost complaints are the lack of offense (distinct from good pitching) and the pace of the game. Absolutely nothing in the game is more boring than watching a slugger line one toward the gap, only to have his double snatched out of mid-air by the shortstop standing on the right side of the diamond? Ideally hitters will adjust and obviate the shift (or teams would start filtering out the pull-happy players and emphasize the ability to use the whole ballpark), but in the meantime we have a product that can at times be nearly unwatchable.

It's sad to watch a hitter have an entire opposite field wide open and watch them pull a grounder right into the shift time after time after time.

You're a pro hitter, you can't figure out how to go the other way? Teams are literally giving you a free hit if you can just poke one in that direction.

There is a generation of specialty pull hitters. Changing the rules because a trend was accounted for is nonsense. Changing the rules to generate offense, also nonsense.

Baseball has to compete with the increased commercialization of broadcasts, as has every other sport. It's the cost of success - huge TV contracts have to be paid for - yet baseball does virtually everything it can to slow down the game, suck the excitement out of every tense situation and reward boring.

Why on earth does the relief pitcher need warm up tosses with the catcher on the field when he's be in the pen warming up? Why is the time count between pitches never enforced? Why does the ump award time 5 times an at-bat?

Let's start there before rewarding shitty one dimensional hitters.

even though some of the shifts look ridiculous. Hitters need to be smart enough to adjust

The football equivalent is Eli trying to throw into triple coverage instead of taking the single coverage on the other side. Major league hitters should learn to go the other way. Take what the defense gives them.

Hate the DH too even after all these years. I like watching good defense. I like watching a manager having to decide whether to keep his pitcher in. I like seeing a hitter put the ball where it needs to be. If lack of offense is that big a deal lower the mound, make the gloves smaller, give all the batters 4 strikes or walk them with three balls. But don't go out of your way to reward one dimensional players.

The shift is the absolute worst thing to ever happen to baseball. It's complete garbage, just a travesty to the game.

If you can't hit past the shift then you need to get more batting instruction. It's a basic drill that all HS players engage in. Hit to a spot designated by the coach. Situational hitting. Handling pitches on the outside corner. These are basic things.

Next thing you know they will be limiting how fast a pitch can be thrown.

In comment 12108554 TJ said:

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Hate the DH too even after all these years. I like watching good defense. I like watching a manager having to decide whether to keep his pitcher in. I like seeing a hitter put the ball where it needs to be. If lack of offense is that big a deal lower the mound, make the gloves smaller, give all the batters 4 strikes or walk them with three balls. But don't go out of your way to reward one dimensional players.

These are all awesome ideas....if you want Major League Baseball to fold in about 4-5 years.

if a team wants to play the shortstop on the right side of the bag, let them. Leaves a gaping hole for the hitter on the left side. If they can't take advantage it's their own fault.

And how is this fair to spray hitters? They spend years learning to hit to all fields and now dead pull hitters get special protection?

Outlawing better defense is just going to create more visits to the mound and more pitching changes in important moments in the game.

Baseball has effectively eliminated most of the tension of the game with pauses and stoppages. It compromises the live and TV experience. The moment anything exciting happens everything stops. There is no crescendo in baseball. Even is the NBA when you get a lot of stoppages toward the end, you are working against the clock. In baseball without a clock you need acceleration to sustain suspense.

What if a guy in the NBA couldnt dribble left (fairly common). Would you have a rule preventing the defender from cheating right?

These guys should learn to spray the ball to the opposite field. It's a bit ridiculous.

positioning is one of the more interesting strategic aspects of the game.

And why reward a hitter for not being able to go the other way?

And you have an ENTIRE SIDE of the diamond to poke the ball through for a free base.

If you can't figure out how to do it, you should probably spend more time in the cages. It's pathetic that some of these guys can't figure out how to go the other way.

In comment 12108554 TJ said:

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Hate the DH too even after all these years. I like watching good defense. I like watching a manager having to decide whether to keep his pitcher in. I like seeing a hitter put the ball where it needs to be. If lack of offense is that big a deal lower the mound, make the gloves smaller, give all the batters 4 strikes or walk them with three balls. But don't go out of your way to reward one dimensional players.

Only baseball has this problem. As if there is something sacred about watching a pitcher come up and K on three pitches with runners in scoring position. It's about entertainment. I love baseball's icons too, but the game limits itself and its audience when it becomes so wedded to that past (and not to that past as it really was, but rather to a sanitized portrait of it) that it ignores the ways in which the game is becoming less appealing to the young and the casual fans.

In comment 12108575 arcarsenal said:

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And you have an ENTIRE SIDE of the diamond to poke the ball through for a free base. If you can't figure out how to do it, you should probably spend more time in the cages. It's pathetic that some of these guys can't figure out how to go the other way.

Comparing it to HS, where the average FB is probably low 80's and secondary stuff is rudimentary, is a little bit unreasonable. Using the whole field AND hitting with power is extraordinarily difficult. You can shorten a swing and have some control over where you put a ball, but once you start talking a high-90's FB or a wipeout slider it's enough to get wood on it, much less direct it.

Baseball is just terrible these days, man.

The reason these guys never adjust and learn to hit the ball the other way is because a pitcher can't put one under the guy's chin anymore. He'll be suspended and probably have an enraged, entitled asshole charging at home looking to fight.

So they continue diving over to the outside corner and hitting balls with authority to the pull side. And MLB's solution is to limit how you can play defense?

Just...ugh.

Make it so the hitters get to direct where all the defenders have to stand.

when the HS kids are doing indoor work, the coach will set up circles on the back wall of the hitting cage. The kids get 10 pitches and have to hit the designated circle.Those who cannot hit at least 6 of the 10 have to do it again until they learn how to do it. The coach throws the ball all over the plate too. The players has to learn how to adjust to make sure they hit the target.

This is a basic drill. There is no excuse for a major league ballplayer to be unable to execute that.

The point is that the major league hitter has had plenty of experience with situational hitting - which is what this drill tries to accomplish.

Among the very dramatic declines in quality of baseball, I don't think singles and doubles without runners in scoring position ranks incredibly high on the list.

In comment 12108576 Dunedin81 said:

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I love baseball's icons too, but the game limits itself and its audience when it becomes so wedded to that past (and not to that past as it really was, but rather to a sanitized portrait of it) that it ignores the ways in which the game is becoming less appealing to the young and the casual fans.

LOL I guess that explains it. I'm not young or a casual fan so I have trouble seeing that side of things.

[quote}Only baseball has this problem. As if there is something sacred about watching a pitcher come up and K on three pitches with runners in scoring position.[/quote]

LOL. I grew up watching American League ball post-DH and could never understand the traditionalists fondness for the automatic out. Or the wild excitement they see in the double-switch. Look the pitcher's now in the 6 spot in the order! Thrilling!

I guess if I had grown up sooner I would have opposed the DH so maybe if they do outlaw the shift it will see normal the next generation of fans.

In comment 12108535 MookGiants said:

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they need to do something, every year baseball becomes more boring to watch. Its annoying watching guys hit rockets into the shift that should be hits and the 2nd basemen throws them out from right field

I hate this reply. Not attacking you, Mook. But why "reward" the players for not learning how to hit to all fields? If they are dumb enough to hit into a defense specifically designed to stop them, that's on them.

If a player learned how to go the other way just a few times, teams would stop shifting. But no, let's pass a rule to allow the player off the hook.

Ridiculous

In comment 12108577 Dunedin81 said:

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In comment 12108575 arcarsenal said: Quote: And you have an ENTIRE SIDE of the diamond to poke the ball through for a free base. If you can't figure out how to do it, you should probably spend more time in the cages. It's pathetic that some of these guys can't figure out how to go the other way. Comparing it to HS, where the average FB is probably low 80's and secondary stuff is rudimentary, is a little bit unreasonable. Using the whole field AND hitting with power is extraordinarily difficult. You can shorten a swing and have some control over where you put a ball, but once you start talking a high-90's FB or a wipeout slider it's enough to get wood on it, much less direct it.

When did I compare it to HS?

I'm sorry but if you're in the majors and can't go the other way, that's your problem. They're giving you a massive gap. And plenty of hitters are able to go the other way. There are just power hitters who pull everything and that's their only approach.

I think it's absurd to force fielders into specific zones and not allow them to move just so we can see more hits. I don't think it's unreasonable at all to expect a few guys to figure out how to go the other way. If they can't do it, too bad.

I don't consider it an unfair advantage for the fielding team because they're giving you a free hit if you can just poke the ball in that general direction. It shouldn't be that hard.

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I don't consider it an unfair advantage for the fielding team because they're giving you a free hit if you can just poke the ball in that general direction. It shouldn't be that hard.

Any given hitter only has to do this a few times and the opposing teams will stop shifting on him.

Baseball is is boring because it's momentumless - not because the Astros kick ass at robbing one-dimensional hitters from on average less than a hit per four games.

In comment 12108588 TJ said:

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In comment 12108576 Dunedin81 said: Quote: I love baseball's icons too, but the game limits itself and its audience when it becomes so wedded to that past (and not to that past as it really was, but rather to a sanitized portrait of it) that it ignores the ways in which the game is becoming less appealing to the young and the casual fans. LOL I guess that explains it. I'm not young or a casual fan so I have trouble seeing that side of things.

But it's perception as much as anything else. The average game has gotten close to 45 mins longer over the last twenty years. Some of it is commercial breaks, some of it is the pitching changes, but a lot of it is things like shifts and plodding by pitchers and hitters. The game has changed even without specific rules changes.

It was bake's comment about HS, I thought you had said that too, my mistake.

A lot of the analytics guys think shifts cut down on pitching changes and is keeping pitching costs down. I don't see anyway at all eliminating shifts is going to speed the game, when IMO the most likely outcome is more situational pitching changes late in games.

In comment 12108606 christian said:

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A lot of the analytics guys think shifts cut down on pitching changes and is keeping pitching costs down. I don't see anyway at all eliminating shifts is going to speed the game, when IMO the most likely outcome is more situational pitching changes late in games.

The stat geeks love the shift because it is cerebral. Only problem is that there aren't enough stat geeks to do more than drive Twitter traffic. I say this as a quasi-stat geek myself, but frankly the Keith Laws and Dave Camerons of the world need to understand that while theirs is an interesting perch if the game actually functioned as they wanted it to it would draw lacrosse-level crowds.

Duned - the problem is the teams looking for empirical statistical advantages aren't going to just step back to traditional tactics if the shift disappears. They'll employ other situational approaches they deem advantageous. And basically all situational baseball costs a lot of time, stops the game and will start happening earlier and earlier in games.

there would be a lot of .800 batting averages. Hitting is hard and you can do all the high school you want, the best hitters are going to make outs 7 out of 10 at bats.

Not through a 3 foot opening. It's not like the shift is turning the park into an obstacle course.

I get that hitting is difficult but that's why these guys are where they are. If a hitter literally can't do anything but pull the ball, that's his own fault.

It's a timing thing more than anything else.

The Trap in Hockey. You may hate it, but you have to figure out a way to beat it.

for those saying that the batters should adjust....why shouldn't the pitcher have to adjust? Back in the day, before the shift took over the world, the onus was on the pitcher to keep the hitter off balance and keep the ball on the outside part of the plate. But now, since they can't do their job, the shift bails them out and penalizes the batter.

While it sounds simple in theory, you can't expect a pull hitter to just flip a switch and turn into a slap hitter. It's not going to happen. And even if it did, you really want to see David Ortiz or Jose Bautista slapping singles the other way all the time? Is that really good for the game? That's about as exciting as watching pitchers flail away aimlessly as they can't come close to making contact, but there will be a couple of times a season where the pitcher actually makes contact, with eyes closed, and the National League guys will scream "see, that's why the pitchers should hit!".

You guys may find that stuff exciting. The rest of the planet does not.

Once you establish that you can go the other way and take the free base a few times, they'll start playing you regularly again. It's the guys like Howard and Teixiera who literally cannot go the other way off a tee who are the reason why teams employ these shifts.

If you need to watch slugfest just to enjoy baseball, maybe you don't like it as much as you thought. Who knows.

two IF to a side? Fine, sink the SS in shallow left, LF to left center, CF to right center, RF to shallow right, it's the shift by another means. Outlawing defensive tactics to favor one dimensional hitters strikes me as inane and unnecessary.

are able to hit it the other way, but they think (or are taught) that their contributions should come from their power so they'd rather take their chances at a multiple base hit or home run to Knicks guys in than trying to slap a single the other way.

This consideration is stupid though. Teams should be able to line up their guys wherever they want...

In comment 12108550 christian said:

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There is a generation of specialty pull hitters. Changing the rules because a trend was accounted for is nonsense. Changing the rules to generate offense, also nonsense. Baseball has to compete with the increased commercialization of broadcasts, as has every other sport. It's the cost of success - huge TV contracts have to be paid for - yet baseuball does virtually everything it can to slow down the game, suck the excitement out of every tense situation and reward boring. Why on earth does the relief pitcher need warm up tosses with the catcher on the field when he's be in the pen warming up? Why is the time count between pitches never enforced? Why does the ump award time 5 times an at-bat? Let's start there before rewarding shitty one dimensional hitters.

+1

also include the wheel play on an attempted bunt or even the 2nd baseman covering 1st when the 1st baseman charges?

I've always found it annoying.

But this rule change would just feel so weak. Teams should be able to position their fielders anyway they please.

brilliant idea for games:

In comment 12108792 arcarsenal said:

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Once you establish that you can go the other way and take the free base a few times, they'll start playing you regularly again. It's the guys like Howard and Teixiera who literally cannot go the other way off a tee who are the reason why teams employ these shifts. If you need to watch slugfest just to enjoy baseball, maybe you don't like it as much as you thought. Who knows.

I hate slugfests. So, there's that. I'd rather watch a nicely pitched 3-2 game any day. But I don't think the shift fits into that category. I also don't think it's realistic to ban it, I just wish that it was a fad that never existed.

Also, has there ever been a case of a hitter slap hitting his way out of the other team shifting? Teams WANT the power hitters to slap it the other way, or bunt. They aren't going to stop shifting Teixera because he slaps a couple of balls to third base.

And one more thing, why is it that when people have differing opinions, they get accused of loving slugfests and not liking baseball as much as the supposed "purists"? What the hell is a purist anyways? It sounds to me like it's someone that hates change. That doesn't make them better fans, no matter how much they like to try to convince themselves that they are. I've been watching baseball for 40 years and still love it. Never miss a Yankee game (on television). That doesn't mean that I love everything about it, and it couldn't use some changes.

and owners pay for it. So players who can't beat the shift are sprinkled all over the major leagues.

Next thing you know, Manfred will be evaluating the body armor the hitters wear.

the mound lowered

Reduce the strike zone, strikeouts go down, run scoring goes up.