for the most part when it comes to being a franchise PF/C. Defense is easier to learn as most of it is positioning and effort that comes with experience
Hes a poor defensive player. He will likely always be a below average defensive player.
It's much harder to learn post moves and play with your back to the basket than it is to learn defense, IMO. You can become an average defender just with effort and a growing sense of where to be on the court. Big man post play is much harder to teach and pick up because the whole concept of playing with your back to the basket is challenging. Great post play requires instincts that some bigs just don't have. If you look at the NBA good interior defenders are a dime a dozen but good post players at PF or C are rare
was an elite defensive C but did not have a post move worth a damn. More extreme examples of this are Andre Drummond and DeAndre Jordan. Drummond is still young and he has to learn a post game to truly become elite; DeAndre is a top defender and rebounder but will never have a post game
either offensively or defensively generallydonot improve much on either end. St Johns is abusing Okafor today. He is an absolute non factor defensively. His ceiling in NBA will always be limited as a result
And Okafor would kill to beslightly above average defensively. Hell he would kill to just not suck defensively
But Duncan was far better than even that in the NBA. Maybe I shouldn't have said "slightly above average" but he was a better defensive PF/C on the Spurs than he ever was in college
Marc Gasol was a fatass early in his career who could not play a lick of defense until he got in shape and got more minutes. He had some offensive skills but he never got on the court because he was so out of shape and literally could not move on the court. Pau was a poor defensive player until he was traded to the Lakers, where both Phil and Kobe kicked his ass and forced him to play defense
Z-Bo on the Knicks did not play an ounce of defense. At least he tries on the Grizzlies, which is all you can ask for with a man carrying his weight
All Shaq cared about was offense until Phil told him in no uncertain terms that he would keep on getting swept in the playoffs until he put in the effort on the defensive end. So Shaq became an average defender
so I actually think it's more likely for a prospect to improve on offense than defense.
Okafor seems below-average defensively. I haven't seen enough of him to say how far below-average. Centers are the most important defensive players in the game, so I've always been wary of college Centers who project as below-average on D.
But Okafor clearly has 20 PPG potential as a beast low-post scorer. He's exactly what the Knicks need in a triangle big on offense.
I'd take Okafor #1 because his offense feels like a safe bet to translate but Towns clearly has the higher ceiling imo. The two-way potential with him is greater. He's still raw though.
Neither Okafor or Towns is close to the prospect that Embiid was before he got hurt imo.
Also consider that Okafor is only 19 years old and while he moves
extremely well for a 6'11, 270 pounder, he's not exactly chiseled. If he turns that into muscle, his defense and rebounding will improve. The only thing is he seems to lack toughness. I'd like to see him contest shots and be more of a rim protector. Make your presence known on the defensive end, Jahlil!
Demarcus Cousins was a guy who I thought would never develop into a great player because of his poor defense in college. Well, he worked his ass off and is a good defender in the NBA now.
Cousins is def more athletic than Okafor though so I don't know if Okafor will make the same improvements on D. But Okafor is 270lbs with a 7'5" wingspan so there are tools there for him to improve as a rim protector atleast.
washt poor defensively in college always. He just was maddeningly inconsistent, bith offensively and defensively. He would have games where he would dominate defensively. Okafor literally never positively impacts the game defensively
st johns can be bumped on their drives and they will never get calls. not that its costing them the game but jesus christ call the body bumps both ways. maybe lavin should coach flopping and throwing your head back in practice like ratboy does in his
But good for him for serving our country. You'd think though that he'll get way more playing time next year without Okafor to improve his stock. Given his size and his bloodlines, at the very least, I think he could be a second rounder that can be developed in the D-League.
But good for him for serving our country. You'd think though that he'll get way more playing time next year without Okafor to improve his stock. Given his size and his bloodlines, at the very least, I think he could be a second rounder that can be developed in the D-League.
Fredo sucks. No one's wasting a draft pick on him.
I hope st johns misses the tourney so Lavin gets fired. Bas soon as Duke went to zone because okafor was a sieve defensively they had no idea what to do. Never adjusted
the bullshit whistle changed the game. st johns had a dunk to go up 61-51. duke seemed to want it more and scored on almost every possession it seemed since that point
Say what you want about Coach K, but that's an incredible
i hate lavin just as much as you but that was not a walk, the duke kid knocked it out of rysheeds hands. thats when duke went on the run. would they have won if they got the dunk, who knows.
harrison getting hurt in fucking practice 2 weeks ago was a huge thing for this team. if he plays anywhere near what he can do, they might have won.
This is why some actually have Towns rated above Okafor
I wish he was less involved in the "one and done" recruiting pipeline, but it's almost as if he has no choice if he wants to compete at the highest level.
reminds me of a bigger, slower Melo. Not an explosive athlete, but he is smooth, has great footwork, great touch, and a great knack for the hoop. Defensively, he is lacking big time. He was atrocious today. I don't know if it's effort or just a lack of athleticism but he is a glacier on the defensive end. Hopefully, for his sake, a good strength and conditioning coach can work with him and develop him into a more powerful big man.
Part of me thinks that it's also on Coach K who has struggled in recent years to build strong defensive teams as he recruits these one-and-done types-- not that it would be easy for any coach to do so.
Surprisingly, the game turned when K finally put in Plumlee to play for the last 10 minutes or so. Once that happened, St. John's was no longer able to push Duke around.
That said, I still think Okafor is the guy you take at #1.
I don't watch much college ball so I haven't watched him, but
players can grow their game once in the pro's. I remember the word on Ewing coming out of college was that he was considered great defensively but nothing more than average offensively. He went on to be a terrific scoring center so just maybe this kid could learn how to eventually be a decent defender in the pro's.
I wish he was less involved in the "one and done" recruiting pipeline, but it's almost as if he has no choice if he wants to compete at the highest level.
Funny part is since he has gotten involved with the one and dones, they haven't done shit in the tournament. It's not working for him
the hats and T-shirts like they just won a championship were hilarious
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Funny part is since he has gotten involved with the one and dones, they haven't done shit in the tournament. It's not working for him
Mook - They have been far less steady - that's for sure. They have won two titles in 2001 and 2010. And the made the finals in 1999. But "Camelot" for Duke was 1984 through 1994. They were insanely great...
Jahlil needs a lot of work on the defensive end. Offensively he's as good a low-post prospect as we've seen in at least a decade
It's much harder to learn post moves and play with your back to the basket than it is to learn defense, IMO. You can become an average defender just with effort and a growing sense of where to be on the court. Big man post play is much harder to teach and pick up because the whole concept of playing with your back to the basket is challenging. Great post play requires instincts that some bigs just don't have. If you look at the NBA good interior defenders are a dime a dozen but good post players at PF or C are rare
Duncan, both Gasols, Z-Bo
Duncan went from slightly above average defensively at Wake to an elite defender in the NBA
Zbo is hidden defensively by Marc Gasol.
Marc Gasol none of us saw much in his younger days.
And Okafor would kill to beslightly above average defensively. Hell he would kill to just not suck defensively
And Okafor would kill to beslightly above average defensively. Hell he would kill to just not suck defensively
But Duncan was far better than even that in the NBA. Maybe I shouldn't have said "slightly above average" but he was a better defensive PF/C on the Spurs than he ever was in college
Al Jefferson is his floor, barring injuries
Z-Bo on the Knicks did not play an ounce of defense. At least he tries on the Grizzlies, which is all you can ask for with a man carrying his weight
All Shaq cared about was offense until Phil told him in no uncertain terms that he would keep on getting swept in the playoffs until he put in the effort on the defensive end. So Shaq became an average defender
STJ is playing with frenetic energy
Name the franchise centers that sucked defensively.
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but Jahlil is an NBA franchise player just due to his post skills
Name the franchise centers that sucked defensively.
Andrea Bargnani, as Raptors fans found out very quickly
Hes average at best athletically and rebounding.
And a horror show defensively.
Thats not a franchise player
Okafor seems below-average defensively. I haven't seen enough of him to say how far below-average. Centers are the most important defensive players in the game, so I've always been wary of college Centers who project as below-average on D.
But Okafor clearly has 20 PPG potential as a beast low-post scorer. He's exactly what the Knicks need in a triangle big on offense.
I'd take Okafor #1 because his offense feels like a safe bet to translate but Towns clearly has the higher ceiling imo. The two-way potential with him is greater. He's still raw though.
Neither Okafor or Towns is close to the prospect that Embiid was before he got hurt imo.
Cousins is def more athletic than Okafor though so I don't know if Okafor will make the same improvements on D. But Okafor is 270lbs with a 7'5" wingspan so there are tools there for him to improve as a rim protector atleast.
Fredo sucks. No one's wasting a draft pick on him.
I hope st johns misses the tourney so Lavin gets fired. Bas soon as Duke went to zone because okafor was a sieve defensively they had no idea what to do. Never adjusted
No Mercer this year!
harrison getting hurt in fucking practice 2 weeks ago was a huge thing for this team. if he plays anywhere near what he can do, they might have won.
Okafor has a great offensive NBA game but his lack of D does worry me a bit.
I wish he was less involved in the "one and done" recruiting pipeline, but it's almost as if he has no choice if he wants to compete at the highest level.
Part of me thinks that it's also on Coach K who has struggled in recent years to build strong defensive teams as he recruits these one-and-done types-- not that it would be easy for any coach to do so.
Surprisingly, the game turned when K finally put in Plumlee to play for the last 10 minutes or so. Once that happened, St. John's was no longer able to push Duke around.
That said, I still think Okafor is the guy you take at #1.
There is also the fact that he may give more effort once he's drafted. I can see why he'd want to keep out of foul trouble for now.
The team played hard. Obekpa played Okafor tough. Harrison's obviously hurt.
If the team plays with the same passion going forward, they will be in the tournament.
I wish he was less involved in the "one and done" recruiting pipeline, but it's almost as if he has no choice if he wants to compete at the highest level.
Funny part is since he has gotten involved with the one and dones, they haven't done shit in the tournament. It's not working for him
Quote:
Funny part is since he has gotten involved with the one and dones, they haven't done shit in the tournament. It's not working for him
Mook - They have been far less steady - that's for sure. They have won two titles in 2001 and 2010. And the made the finals in 1999. But "Camelot" for Duke was 1984 through 1994. They were insanely great...