NFT: Mets Fans - Curt Schilling Likes the Mets Pitching Staff

you were just casually mentioning Werth is at the end of his career because he's 35? It wasn't a way to imply he's declining/why the Nats shouldn't be that good? Hmmm. Don't buy that one sorry.

In comment 12109162 ZGiants98 said:

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heightened. Of course we all know Cuddyer could get injured but your spouting out how their huge middle of the order bat(Werth) is exempt???

Who said Werth is exempt? Every day this off-season you have RAVED about Cuddyer and how his injuries are not chronic. Werth has had back to back BIG seasons. Any player can have a bad year, why is Cuddyer an exciting addition but Werth is "on the tail end"?

that they have questions like all of us do. On paper I compared them to the 2013 Dodgers. Thats saying they aren't good??

When Lagares first came up I posted that I thought he was one of the better defenders I had seen and thought the Mets just might have found their CF of the future and I was told that his minor league stats showed that he would never be an every day play.

My point it, there is nothing wrong with being enthused about a young player with what you see with your own eyes and sometimes they will surprise.

Lets face it, that's half of the fun of being a diehard fan, watching and being enthused about young talent.

In comment 12109169 DanMetroMan said:

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In comment 12109162 ZGiants98 said: Quote: heightened. Of course we all know Cuddyer could get injured but your spouting out how their huge middle of the order bat(Werth) is exempt??? Who said Werth is exempt? Every day this off-season you have RAVED about Cuddyer and how his injuries are not chronic. Werth has had back to back BIG seasons. Any player can have a bad year, why is Cuddyer an exciting addition but Werth is "on the tail end"?

Why the fuck has this turned into Cuddyer vs Werth?? Cuddyer is a role player making 5 million bucks next year. Duda is our cleanup hitter we are counting on. You are just a fucking clown trying to start shit. Don't even know why I bother.

for the record, Black was WORSE second half, not "got better". His wOBA against was .274 first half, .306 second half and his second half FIP was 4.41 vs. 3.37 first half. He throws hard, that's cool. But so far he's been a non-factor 100%.

In comment 12109171 steve in ky said:

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When Lagares first came up I posted that I thought he was one of the better defenders I had seen and thought the Mets just might have found their CF of the future and I was told that his minor league stats showed that he would never be an every day play. My point it, there is nothing wrong with being enthused about a young player with what you see with your own eyes and sometimes they will surprise. Lets face it, that's half of the fun of being a diehard fan, watching and being enthused about young talent.

Exactly. And I dare anyone else here to say they weren't impressed with what Black showed. The kid was certainly one of the more promising players that busted on the scene last year.

is making 10.5 million per year. I find it hard to believe you think he signed for 2 years 10 million but I'll ignore that portion rather... why would their salaries matter? If the Nationals can afford to pay werth his salary (clearly they can given the Scherzer signing) why would their salaries matter? If anything isn't Cuddyer a bigger "piece" for the Mets than Werth is for the Nationals?

In comment 12109165 DanMetroMan said:

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you were just casually mentioning Werth is at the end of his career because he's 35? It wasn't a way to imply he's declining/why the Nats shouldn't be that good? Hmmm. Don't buy that one sorry.

Ummm. No dipshit. I wasn't. I said they have question marks. Never once said they wouldn't be good asshole.

In comment 12109171 steve in ky said:

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When Lagares first came up I posted that I thought he was one of the better defenders I had seen and thought the Mets just might have found their CF of the future and I was told that his minor league stats showed that he would never be an every day play. My point it, there is nothing wrong with being enthused about a young player with what you see with your own eyes and sometimes they will surprise. Lets face it, that's half of the fun of being a diehard fan, watching and being enthused about young talent.

Steve,
You have honestly been "impressed" with Vic Black's performance to this point beyond throwing hard? Be honest.

for Black this year.

2015. 12.5 in 2016.

off season you have absolutely RAVED about Cuddyer. Now he's a role player who isn't HUGELY important to the 2015 Mets? This is a shocking change. You have been absolutely over the moon excited about Cuddyer. Not he shows he's at the "tail end" and that's fine?

How many people on BBI that are Mets fans(that have actually watched games) are down on Black? Please raise your hand!

In comment 12109192 ZGiants98 said:

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2015. 12.5 in 2016.

Which is... how much per year? Not really sure why Cuddyer vs. Werth's salary matters here to begin with but okay. The sport has no salary cap. Do we get wins if Werth sucks for more money? You think Werth settles for 2 for 21 on the open market? Not a chance.

In comment 12109193 DanMetroMan said:

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off season you have absolutely RAVED about Cuddyer. Now he's a role player who isn't HUGELY important to the 2015 Mets? This is a shocking change. You have been absolutely over the moon excited about Cuddyer. Not he shows he's at the "tail end" and that's fine?

What the fuck are you even talking about? I never even mentioned Cuddyer in regards to Werth. I said they have some age and injury concerns. Thats it. Have I not said Cuddyer has age and injury concerns? You fucking piece of shit?? Have I?

In comment 12109194 ZGiants98 said:

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How many people on BBI that are Mets fans(that have actually watched games) are down on Black? Please raise your hand!

So throw out every single stat? Cool. He was better second half based on what? Not FIP, not wOBA, didn't walk less, what should I be looking at? Throwing hard?

jackass.

all honesty if you are impressed with players whose stats suck then maybe you aren't really a good judge of players? Why would every stat agree Black hasn't been very good? What stat am I missing?

if you support Dan in that Black sucks and nobody should be excited about his potential please back your boy up. He's fragile. Help him out!

claimed Black started slow and was better after that. Which stats back this up? Why so angry. Please point me in that direction. That's all I'm asking.

In comment 12109205 ZGiants98 said:

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if you support Dan in that Black sucks and nobody should be excited about his potential please back your boy up. He's fragile. Help him out!

Nope. Didn't even come close to saying "Black sucks" nice try though.

In comment 12109119 DanMetroMan said:

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of right now Black doesn;'t even belong in the discussion. He's a hard thrower who has done absolutely nothing in the majors. 59 major league games 0.1 WAR. He could be something if he walks less hitters but right now he's a non-factor.

This is factual. Not "Black sucks".

We all watched Black.

In comment 12109207 DanMetroMan said:

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claimed Black started slow and was better after that. Which stats back this up? Why so angry. Please point me in that direction. That's all I'm asking.

He was put into higher leverage situations. Got us out of a number of jams.

Vic Black doesn't walk less hitters he won't last 2015 on the Mets roster. This is a fact my friend. Not an opinion. A fact. He won't hold onto his 40 man spot. Remember Gonzalez Germen? He's on team #4 this off-season.

In comment 12109211 DanMetroMan said:

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In comment 12109119 DanMetroMan said: Quote: of right now Black doesn;'t even belong in the discussion. He's a hard thrower who has done absolutely nothing in the majors. 59 major league games 0.1 WAR. He could be something if he walks less hitters but right now he's a non-factor. This is factual. Not "Black sucks".

You didn't just say he is a NOTHING??? lol.

if he doesn't walk less hitters he's an absolute non-factor and will play for 4-5 teams and be off and on in AAA. Proof is in the pudding. His numbers say so far in his career he's replacement level. 108th in FIP in 2014

In comment 12109220 DanMetroMan said:

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Vic Black doesn't walk less hitters he won't last 2015 on the Mets roster. This is a fact my friend. Not an opinion. A fact. He won't hold onto his 40 man spot. Remember Gonzalez Germen? He's on team #4 this off-season.

Seriously. Go fuck yourself. It was his first full season. We were all encouraged by what we saw and we all expect improvement. This guy has been a legit prospect for years thought to have closer upside. He absolutely improved as the year went on. we all saw it, whether the numbers back that up or not.

In comment 12109234 ZGiants98 said:

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In comment 12109220 DanMetroMan said: Quote: Vic Black doesn't walk less hitters he won't last 2015 on the Mets roster. This is a fact my friend. Not an opinion. A fact. He won't hold onto his 40 man spot. Remember Gonzalez Germen? He's on team #4 this off-season. Seriously. Go fuck yourself. It was his first full season. We were all encouraged by what we saw and we all expect improvement. This guy has been a legit prospect for years thought to have closer upside. He absolutely improved as the year went on. we all saw it, whether the numbers back that up or not.

He was not impressive. He threw hard. His numbers were not impressive in any way. He improved? Why don't the numbers show this? Strange.

to clarify. If Vic Black is 100% "as good" (no better or worse) as he was second half in 2014 then you think he's a key piece of the Mets pen for the next 5-6 years? or more of a mop up "extra" arm?

He was so bad in spring training he couldn't even make the team. The guy couldn't find the strike zone in the beginning of the year. He came up and was used like the last man in the pen in mop up situations. By the end of the year he was the bonafide 7th man. he absolutely improved as the year went on. And I don't give two shit if the stats don't back that up.

But Z, you are overlooking an obviouse answer with Black...

would you sign for Mejia, Familia, Parnell and Black to be "Black second half 2014" good this season? Would the Mets be a winning squad if that's the case?

In comment 12109241 ZGiants98 said:

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He was so bad in spring training he couldn't even make the team. The guy couldn't find the strike zone in the beginning of the year. He came up and was used like the last man in the pen in mop up situations. By the end of the year he was the bonafide 7th man. he absolutely improved as the year went on. And I don't give two shit if the stats don't back that up.

Guess that ends that.

really clear why Black's horrendous start to the year would make his second half numbers worse than his first half but okay. I guess I give up.

shit about his stats other than you anyway. This was a huge prospect with closer upside that broke in and improved as a reliever at the ML level in his first full season. We are supposed to not like this guy? lol.

In comment 12109248 ZGiants98 said:

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shit about his stats other than you anyway. This was a huge prospect with closer upside that broke in and improved as a reliever at the ML level in his first full season. We are supposed to not like this guy? lol.

Being "impressed" despite the numbers doesn't make sense to me. Either you find a way to succeed or you don't. If you want to be impressed with velocity that is you prerogative. At the end of the day David Wright is a great player because of the numbers he puts up. Not that he's a nice guy, or fun to watch or works hard. He makes his money because of his numbers.

In comment 12109246 DanMetroMan said:

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In comment 12109241 ZGiants98 said: Quote: He was so bad in spring training he couldn't even make the team. The guy couldn't find the strike zone in the beginning of the year. He came up and was used like the last man in the pen in mop up situations. By the end of the year he was the bonafide 7th man. he absolutely improved as the year went on. And I don't give two shit if the stats don't back that up. Guess that ends that.

Who the fuck said he had an amazing statistical season? Once again. Dan's in his own world. Only Dan can live like Dan in Dan's kingdom!! DAN"S WORLD FOR LIFE!!

In comment 12109242 Shecky said:

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But Z, you are overlooking an obviouse answer with Black...

Help me out?

In comment 12109248 ZGiants98 said:

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shit about his stats other than you anyway. This was a huge prospect with closer upside that broke in and improved as a reliever at the ML level in his first full season. We are supposed to not like this guy? lol.

Huge prospect? Peaking at #15 in the Pirate system in 2015? He was a first round pick in 2009 and was AWFUL until 2012 in the minors. When was this "huge prospect" stuff? Please show me.

career minor league numbers

(Sickels had him unranked before 2012, #15 after 2012 in the Pirates system) please show me the year he was a "huge prospect". Thanks in advance.
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 12109231 DanMetroMan said:

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if he doesn't walk less hitters he's an absolute non-factor and will play for 4-5 teams and be off and on in AAA. Proof is in the pudding. His numbers say so far in his career he's replacement level. 108th in FIP in 2014

So far in his career?? Lol. What a jackass. It was his first season. I guess Syndergaard is done. His AAA wasn't amazing elite level last year. Cut him. Cut Flores too. His overall season last year rates him 27th best SS in baseball. Proof is in the pudding!! Cut TDA too. His first half was sooooooo bad. Cut him.

In comment 12109260 ZGiants98 said:

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In comment 12109242 Shecky said: Quote: But Z, you are overlooking an obviouse answer with Black... Help me out?

Problem is, you have to admit he tailed off in the second half.

in the NYPENN 7 starts 3.45 era 1.31 whip, then 2010 TJ, 2011 5.05 era in 27 games out of the pen, 2012 excellent season out of the pen (Sickels ranked him #15), traded to the Mets.

in the Bucs system for years and was borderline a top 10 in ours last year as well.

In comment 12109268 ZGiants98 said:

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In comment 12109231 DanMetroMan said: Quote: if he doesn't walk less hitters he's an absolute non-factor and will play for 4-5 teams and be off and on in AAA. Proof is in the pudding. His numbers say so far in his career he's replacement level. 108th in FIP in 2014 So far in his career?? Lol. What a jackass. It was his first season. I guess Syndergaard is done. His AAA wasn't amazing elite level last year. Cut him. Cut Flores too. His overall season last year rates him 27th best SS in baseball. Proof is in the pudding!! Cut TDA too. His first half was sooooooo bad. Cut him.

If Syndergaard puts up identical numbers through 59 appearances then yes, the statement will be "he needs to walk less or he's nothing special". I don't care what his name is, so far Vic Black through 59 career games is a non-factor. That's what I've said from moment 1, not that he has no chance to ever be one. If Syndergaard throws really really hard but walks 4.4/9 his first 59 appearances, striking out a "solid" 8.3/9 people will absolutely question how good he is.

.

In comment 12109269 Shecky said:

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In comment 12109260 ZGiants98 said: Quote: In comment 12109242 Shecky said: Quote: But Z, you are overlooking an obviouse answer with Black... Help me out? Problem is, you have to admit he tailed off in the second half.

He may have tailed off from being tired at the very end but there is nothing to say what he showed last year wasn't something we should all be encouraged by. He came a long way from April 1st last year to where he was when the season ended.