NFT: Mets Fans - Curt Schilling Likes the Mets Pitching Staff

In comment 12109496 Headhunter said:

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he has a spot going in, but it certainly not etched in stone that it is his if he struggles

HH,
That's all I meant. Familia, Mejia, Torres, Edgin are absolute locks but if you told me someone else stole Black's spot I wouldn't be shocked at all. I hope they don't do it but some rumblings they may work Montero out of the pen, someone like Montero or Mazzoni could steal a spot or even Carlyle. Carlyle is ancient but I actually thought he was pretty good last year.

In comment 12109500 Shecky said:

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Fans can call a season where you were barely above 500 a success and "contending". Personally, I despise that. Goal should be to win 95 games and a world series. Fall short due to bad luck and circumstances, the wild card still gives you a chance.

I don't think anybody expects the mets to be "contenders" (though with the Royals anything is possible) but playoff contenders is very realistic/possible. On paper there are probably 3-4 teams "likely" to win 90 or more (or good bets) and a bunch of teams who could win 75-85 depending on a bunch of things. I agree the goal should be a WS contender/

this thread, if ZGiants doesn't see them as real WS contenders this year I doubt anybody on here does but I think most people think if they have the right breaks, stay healthy etc they can finish over .500 which means going into Sept. with a hot finish giving them a shot.

you better do what you need to do to keep your job.

really like Mazzoni. I hope he finds a way to stay healthy. I'm usually against it but I think it's close to time to move him to the pen. He's oft injured, he's not a big guy and everyone seems to agree his stuff isn't as good later in games. Seems like the perfect pen candidate. Sucks that Walters got hurt, he'd be in the mix too at this point.

don't know where this guy is seeing it but apparently Herrera is #9 at 2b (I think this is crazy if accurate), Nimmo and Conforto at #9 and #10 in OF (Not sure if that's just corner). He didn't post any links so this might be wrong.

seriously, I'll take baby steps. and I hate this cliche Wilpon used, but I'll take it. Meaningful September baseball and I don't mean by meaningful hoping they lose enough games so the draft pick is protected.

And to be honest, that is my expectation for this year. Meaningful September baseball.

In comment 12109517 pjcas18 said:

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seriously, I'll take baby steps. and I hate this cliche Wilpon used, but I'll take it. Meaningful September baseball and I don't mean by meaningful hoping they lose enough games so the draft pick is protected. And to be honest, that is my expectation for this year. Meaningful September baseball.

If we are talking about draft pick protection again this year then Sandy and staff must be shown the door. I'm serious about that. No excuses. If we are "in the mix" for bottom 10 team AGAIN this year they failed at their jobs. I don't expect that but you shouldn't keep your job if that's the case. No excuses, no "Wright missed 60 games" or Harvey wasn't full strength. Either you are .500 or better or you should be gone.

In comment 12109513 DanMetroMan said:

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don't know where this guy is seeing it but apparently Herrera is #9 at 2b (I think this is crazy if accurate), Nimmo and Conforto at #9 and #10 in OF (Not sure if that's just corner). He didn't post any links so this might be wrong.

Crazy - Herrera - too high on the list (high being good) or too low (low being bad) for Herrera?

think Herrera is EASILY a top 5 2b prospect in baseball. I'll have to see the names they have ahead of him (assuming this is accurate) but I can't come up with 8 better 2b prospects. No way. MLB.com has strange lists to begin with. They refuse to put a guy like Gallo or Franco on their 1b list despite their teams making clear that's their eventual position yet Herrera has a big year with scouts digging him and he's #9? Strange. No issue with Nimmo/Conforto where they are. I think Herrera and Kolten Wong are very similar and I suspect Wong will be an all-star soon enough.

...in September"

Let's hope this turns out a bit better over the next few seasons.

Peterson another guy they refused to rank at 1b but 1) The Mariners openly say he's likely headed there 2) Seager is locked up long term at 3b. Peter O'Brien similar situation in Arizona, though Arizona doesn't have a catcher. Would be great if TDA breaks out, Plawecki has a big year and the mets can hold someone hostage for one of their catchers.

In comment 12109531 arcarsenal said:

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...in September" Let's hope this turns out a bit better over the next few seasons.

Gotta have "meaningful" games for me to accept this FO coming back. No more "well Harvey looked good and Wheeler was better, sucks we won 79 games again". Time for a step forward or a step in another direction.

It's put up or shut up time. If this team isn't in the mix for a WC spot at the end of September, I'm sorry, but they've failed.

If they just miss it by a game or two, I can swallow that. But another sub-80 win year and "well, we saw the young kids come up and contribute" isn't doing it for me anymore. That was 2013 and 2014. 2015 needs to be about winning baseball games. Otherwise this is a failure. A rebuild shouldn't take over 7 years.

In comment 12109536 arcarsenal said:

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It's put up or shut up time. If this team isn't in the mix for a WC spot at the end of September, I'm sorry, but they've failed. If they just miss it by a game or two, I can swallow that. But another sub-80 win year and "well, we saw the young kids come up and contribute" isn't doing it for me anymore. That was 2013 and 2014. 2015 needs to be about winning baseball games. Otherwise this is a failure. A rebuild shouldn't take over 7 years.

I'm obviously very hard on them but if they win at least 82 games I can except it. Anything less than that and goodbye Sandy for me. Enough already. I don't want to hear "yeah we won 79 again but Amed Rosario might join us second half 2016!!!" or "yeah well on 8/1 we were only 6 out of the WC but had a bad series with the Pirates" etc. Time to win more games.

I can see it now. "Well we were 3 games over .500 on July 29th but a couple guys missed games and we fell out of it! Conforto has such a promising future though!!!"

to make ultimatums that this better be the year. If they lose 120 gAmes I'll still be watching and going. Having said that, I'm excited for what season can be the start of

In comment 12109530 DanMetroMan said:

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think Herrera is EASILY a top 5 2b prospect in baseball. I'll have to see the names they have ahead of him (assuming this is accurate) but I can't come up with 8 better 2b prospects. No way. MLB.com has strange lists to begin with. They refuse to put a guy like Gallo or Franco on their 1b list despite their teams making clear that's their eventual position yet Herrera has a big year with scouts digging him and he's #9? Strange. No issue with Nimmo/Conforto where they are. I think Herrera and Kolten Wong are very similar and I suspect Wong will be an all-star soon enough.

I agree, I feel like Herrera should be higher. How many 20-year old 2B OPS .850 between A+ and AA.

I was expecting him to be top 3 or 4.

Herrera's time in AA was ridiculous. and it's not like Binghamtom is Vegas.

those numbers extrapolated out over a full season and he's the next Robbie Cano.

Last year was supposed to be WC contenders. This year World Series. Harvey got hurt ruined 2014. So why are we content with 82 wins this year or else I hand in the fan card?

In comment 12109553 Shecky said:

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Last year was supposed to be WC contenders. This year World Series. Harvey got hurt ruined 2014. So why are we content with 82 wins this year or else I hand in the fan card?

I'm not sure there's any "we" here. Every fan has their own expectations, their own "requirements" of the team, and their own thought process about what constitutes success, failure and degrees of acceptable performance.

In comment 12109553 Shecky said:

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Last year was supposed to be WC contenders. This year World Series. Harvey got hurt ruined 2014. So why are we content with 82 wins this year or else I hand in the fan card?

Shecky,
I don't think anybody is saying higher expectations are a bad thing. I'm saying for me personally at MINIMUM they better be over .500 or I want the FO and Collins to be fired. That's my absolute minimum with ZERO excuses. If God forbid Harvey throws 10 innings this year I still expect over .500 or toss everyone out the door.

In comment 12109545 Headhunter said:

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to make ultimatums that this better be the year. If they lose 120 gAmes I'll still be watching and going. Having said that, I'm excited for what season can be the start of

HH,
I don't think anybody is suggesting to stop being a fan but I suspect if the Mets go 70-92 you won't be very positive regarding the direction/leadership of the team. They took over in 2011, this is the 2015 season aka year 5. Time to show something in terms of wins and losses.

For them not to be good this year barring an injury epidemic. I guess some key guys like Duda or deGrom turning into pumpkins would be a huge blow.

In comment 12109611 ZGiants98 said:

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For them not to be good this year barring an injury epidemic. I guess some key guys like Duda or deGrom turning into pumpkins would be a huge blow.

I believe even you the most optimistic Mets fan on here would agree if they finish under .500 that they didn't get the job done (meaning the FO and the talent). It should not take 6-7 years for a team to go from bad to solid. They had 11-12-13-14, let's see results.

Dan in that regard and I've said it before. I expect the Mets to be above .500 and competing for a wild card this year. It's time.

In comment 12109623 ZGiants98 said:

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Dan in that regard and I've said it before. I expect the Mets to be above .500 and competing for a wild card this year. It's time.

Right. So I'm not accepting "well Duda only hit 15 homers and we didn't see that coming". Players will progress and regress, a "good" FO should have a team in position where a "usual" amount of regression and injury doesn't cripple them. Granderson tearing his ACL in ST shouldn't shift out expectations for example

In comment 12109623 ZGiants98 said:

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Dan in that regard and I've said it before. I expect the Mets to be above .500 and competing for a wild card this year. It's time.

Wait, what? I thought you two weren't allowed to agree, and even if you do actually agree you need to do it in a way that indicates disagreement.

Should I delete this thread?

And I think we have enough depth to weather any sort of injury like that occurring. Barring an extreme rash of injuries that is outside anything reasonable we better be over .500.

In comment 12109541 arcarsenal said:

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I can see it now. "Well we were 3 games over .500 on July 29th but a couple guys missed games and we fell out of it! Conforto has such a promising future though!!!"

Not even kidding this is 100% my biggest fear. How many times have we seen the same routine, swinging back and forth around .500 and teasing for the first few months? Hopefully this is the year some part of the team (pitching) is good enough to break that habit, but it's almost like this squad under Collins has muscle memory for mediocrity. Just looked this up quickly, but the high water mark over the last 3 seasons was in July 2012 at the exact halfway point of the season (6 games over 500). In '13 they were 9 games under at the halfway point and then 5 games under last year. Being 3 games over in July would actually literally be an achievement and it would have the team exactly on pace for 85.

Yep. I'm just tired of the BS "well, we showed improvement!" excuses. I accepted those for the last few years. Now I need to actually see it pay off.

I'm not expecting the Mets to win 95 games and be a WS contender this year but I have to see a team that is legitimately better than last year.

can hit .340 with 36 homers in A+-AA and I'm not accepting "wait for Conforto" as an excuse for being okay with 77 wins.

"Conforto is on the way, the future is bright! Syndergaard will have MLB experience under his belt, Harvey will have a year post-TJ under his belt, 2016 is looking promising!"

I can seriously see it now..

Staff top to bottom we've had since the mid-80s. Maybe the 99/2000 teams with Leiter, Reed, Hershiser, Jones, Nomo, (Hampton in 2000) will be close but this is the best staff we've had in a long time.

Yup. Each of the last 3 years they were between 5-10 games under .500 on August 10th.

The NL WC race on 8/10 last year:
Brewers were 12 games over (ended at 82 wins)
Pirates were 7 games over (ended at 88 wins / WC)
Giants were 8 games over (ended at 88 wins / WC)

Anything less than being in the WC race in August would suck.

about not needing them to win 95 (I agree). legitimately stay in the Wild Card hunt and I'm happy. Seems like that would be defined as hovering between 5 - 10 games over .500 for the season.

Rojas will manage St. Lucie, Leger to Savannah, Ryan Ellis demoted to hitting coach (unclear which level)

I believe he will be a roving instructor

In comment 12109760 Shecky said:

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I believe he will be a roving instructor

Surprising demotion. 2 time manager of the year and Jeff P loved him. Rojas I believe is Moises Alou's brother, Moises Alou was one of the jerkiest players I have ever met. Pascucci gets RAVES and seems like one of the nicest guys on twitter. Always responds, always praising others. I suspect we lose Viola after this season.

guys intel was wrong. Herrera #4


D.J. Short ‏@djshort 4s4 seconds ago

http://MLB.com ranked Dilson Herrera 4th among 2B prospects behind Forrest Wall, Micah Johnson, Jose Peraza. http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2015/#list=2b �




Scouting grades: Hit: 55 | Power: 40 | Run: 55 | Arm: 50 | Field: 50 | Overall: 50

Originally signed by the Pirates out of Colombia in 2010, Herrera was sent to the Mets in the August 2013 deal that netted Pittsburgh Marlon Byrd and John Buck. In his first full season with the Mets, Herrera led the system in hits, finished third in batting average and went from A ball to the big leagues at age 20.

Herrera has always shown a knack for hitting, with a balanced swing and an ability to make consistent hard contact to all fields. He has excellent bat speed and doesn't strike out a ton, with more power than you'd expect given his small frame. Herrera is a solid runner who can steal a base as well. Herrera has played both shortstop and second in the past, but his defensive tools, from his arm to his actions, will work much better on the right side of the infield.

Herrera arrived in New York well ahead of schedule a year ago. Now he'll have to wait to see when he can get another opportunity at Citi Field.



I like Herrera more than Wall but I can't go nuts over it. Mets reportedly really liked Wall in the draft coincidentally

4 for Dilson. Pretty cool we've been on the top ten for LH pitchers RH pitchers C 1st base and 2nd. 5 for 5 so far!

can't complain too much about Wall (though he's much further away). Some see a future batting champ type and he had a great debut. I wouldn't deal Herrera for Wall but it's close enough.

Smith's ranking is a little bit BS though because it doesn't include anyone who will be a 1b going forward like Maikel Franco or DJ Peterson or Joey Gallo. THis is why 1b looks so thin on their list, most MLB starting 1b were guys who were at other positions but had to move. Not 1b throughout.

mean for example Sickels community list (since most sites don't have a top 100 out yet)

Has Gallo #13 overall prospect in baseball, Sano #11, Schwarber #24, Franco #36, Peterson #53 and none are currently technically 1b.

Syndergaard, Matz, Nimmo, Conforto, Plawecki

Surprised Herrera didn't make it. Montero drops out from last year also I believe.

in it last year? Not Montero?

Ridiculous.

but I could be wrong. I just went to the link and I can't tell if it's been updated or not. They still have Montero (95) & Smith (81) on there, which would indicate it being a 2014 list, but they also have Comforto (79) on there.
2014 top 100 - ( New Window )

shocking to me. If anything Herrera belongs ahead of Conforto if we are nitpicking.

has Herrera as a top 20 position prospect in baseball. Conforto (and this isn't to dog him) but is MUCH further away, older, coming off a worse season at a tougher position. Both have "above average regular" as their realistic upsides. Strange.

Mack's Mets about how our "2nd rotation"(Syndergaard, Montero, Matz, Gee, and Bowman) is still better than 5 teams in baseball. lol
Link - ( New Window )