So here's the story: in recent weeks a relatively new neighbor has reached out and gotten to know the neighborhood and his neighbors better. This has been met with mixed results. Now he apparently hasn't told everyone these things but he's bragged to several people, myself included, about committing welfare fraud.
He boasts about collecting a disability check yet works off the books as a laborer/contractor. He also has another part time, under the table gig. In addition he receivers SNAP benefits (food stamps) and just today informed me that he has been approved for subsidized housing, meaning he'll only need to pay roughly $180 a month to rent his house; the State will be covering the rest.
Now, I was raised to mind my own business and I stick to that. Lord knows I've seen the disastrous results of not doing so. On the other hand there's a part of me that's incredibly pissed off. I'm a social worker by trade and this guy is precisely what is wrong with the system. People like this have a lot to do with the general publics attitude, perception, and frustrations with the system. It also drives me crazy on a personal level. My wife and I put ourselves through college and will be paying for it until we're in our 50s. We, like so many others, do things the right way, work hard and strive for everything we have. And while there is pride in that it still drives me nuts to see this guy just take and take and take.
A few of my neighbors have approached me, stating they wanted to report him and asking my advice on how to do so because of my knowledge of the system. I flat out told them no and that I wanted no part of it but I'd be lying if I said part of me didn't want to.
Just curious to see what people here think, I have a feeling this can be a good discussion if people can stay away from politics.
Thoughts?
That seems to be the NEW AMerican Dream, by scamming the system
So, yeah, rat him out. Plus, you might get some sort of bounty payment, so win win.
Report him, just make sure it doesn't get back to you.
Obviously, if you could do something about this guy's fraud, then the most likely reason you wouldn't would be the open knowledge of being "that guy." Is that a practical concern? If not, then I see nothing wrong with taking steps to report to whatever authority would care. It doesn't sound like you have much in the way of proof, other than the guy's bragging - but that isn't really your problem.
First off I have absolutely no concerns about being "that guy". If i do something it's because I think it's the right thing to do, and its a situation where I don't particularly concern myself with others opinions.
Second, you could've asked if I have proof before assuming I didn't. Several neighbors see him get picked up in a work van daily at 9. I've seen him get dropped off by said van on multiple occasions. And I don't know anyone who would brag about padding their income with a part time job.
The fraud he's commiting is a felony. If someone reports him he could do up to 3 years in prison and would probably be ordered to pay restitution on the fraudulently received disability checks and would be barred from most welfare programs.
If he has kids/family I might feel a little bad about it, but assuming he's able bodied and fan do construction then he should be able to find a way
Nope, single guy in his late 40s Marty. Collecting a full time check, part time check, disability check, food stamps, and soon Uncle Sam will be paying about 75% of his rent.
Must be nice
I am all for having a welfare system for those who truly need it. It needs to be reformed. If we are able to close some of these gaps and stop the scams, then we could actually cut spending in this area AND add benefits to those who need them.
I thought I'd heard it all after 15 years in the system, 8 in north Philly. But my jaw finally hit the floor when a clients daughter told me, upon being asked a general "so what do you want to do?" question because she just started high school, told me "Get pregnant, have my baby, and get my check".
It's really sad and more than a little worrisome for the future: there is a large, I'd even venture measurable, portion of our populations parents who instead of teaching their children work ethics and the importance of education, are being schooled on how to best work the system.
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Nope, single guy in his late 40s Marty. Collecting a full time check, part time check, disability check, food stamps, and soon Uncle Sam will be paying about 75% of his rent.
Must be nice
Is his name High-Pitched Eric?
He's either lying or he better be damn careful. There aren't a lot of eyes out there but he better hope a couple don't focus on him.
Not sure how to answer your question though.
I use quotes on 'qualified' because it seemed crazy at the time to have an administrator say it as if I had won the lottery.
I did take unemployment, however, obligations through the state would not wait, I HAD to take the unemployment or face jail time.
During that period, while looking for job search help services (state funded, privately run) I was told in very clear terms "taking services and money from the state is good for the economy" which is logic that has holes in it, as above noted by some of you, someone else, other private citizens, are paying for that. Plus there are inefficiencies.
But those particular state funded people refused to think along those lines and strongly encourage taking all. Similar may have encouraged your neighbor. .
By the way, later, - that same organization [that encouraged me to take], was outed for faking its client lists (simply made up the 'jobs found' data, named people who were only there one day or less as clients) to garner state funds.
At the same time, listen, some individuals, those who have come against state regulations or state involvement in a possibly very negative way, in a way they felt interfered with their own ability to maneuver in the market or even which they felt, took their own liberty without any due process...may [FEEL THAT] they are then 'justified in taking something back', retribution if you will.
However, obviously, that is obviously not an emotionally mature or rational response, even if it such intrusions were real and out of line.
For their part, meanwhile, there may be a few state agency employees who justify themselves, as they administer such intrusions, with the logic that 'they will be ok, they will work the system.' So you can see, it can be a vicious cycle.
I would talk to your neighbor one on one in private, listen honestly and carefully, comment directly yet respectfully (to avoid confrontation) and then leave it alone.
That step makes it less about you minding your own business and more about protecting the interests of others.
I've always felt that once something is out in the open that it is fair game.
I am a proponent of government-sponsored social programs to help those in need, but some opposition to using tax dollars for these programs stem from the idea that it is being wasted on people abusing the system and effectively stealing from the government. As such, I believe in "policing our own" when it comes to this. He is not only stealing from taxpayers, but he is also preventing those who do meet the criteria for benefits from getting what they need.
'''In a related story...
EricJ : 1/26/2015 10:53 pm : link : reply
you see statistics of huge increases of unwed mothers in this country. It is intentional. They have [been told by administrators strongly] that [breaking up your family starts] the checks [ .] coming in. There are people who have figured all of this out like others have mentioned earlier. Then, they teach their kids, family and friends exactly what to do.
I am all for having a welfare system for those who truly need it. It needs to be reformed. If we are able to close some of these gaps and stop the scams, then we could actually cut spending in this area AND add benefits to those who need them.''
I'm personally a pretty big believer in karma and likely wouldn't go to any great lengths to report him directly unless I'd seen something more specifically concerning happen (beyond talk), but if others are contemplating reporting him I wouldn't be opposed to that either. Again, who knows what other cons this guy could be running that affect others? Does it seem at all unrealistic that through his actual businesses he could be ripping off honest people directly? I'm not at all familiar with "the system" and what would happen if reported, but I'd imagine there'd be some form of an investigation and if it turns out he's innocent, not actually ripping anyone off, and just FOS there's a check/balance on that.
Who does this and then brags to neighbors he barely knows?
Something's up....
Who does this and then brags to neighbors he barely knows?
Something's up....
He's not full of shit. I used the word "relatively new" to describe him bc he's the newest guy on the block. He's here just under a year, I've lived here for a decade so he's still "New" to me. As for why he would talk about it, I dunno. It's only 3 or 4 of us on the block and its only the last couple of weeks that this has come to light. I don't know why he told me, this sort of thing seems to happen to me a lot- people I've just met or don't know well regularly show a very high level of comfort in talking to me. I dunno. Makes me better at my job though, I can tell you that.
But trust me, there's no bullshitting here. People see him go to work, I see him come home. The only thing he could be bullshitting about is receiving benefits but I've never met anyone who bragged about being a welfare recipient.
That is pretty much my take also. Karma always seems to catch up to people (both good and bad) and this guy has a boatload of bad coming
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full of shit?
Who does this and then brags to neighbors he barely knows?
Something's up....
He's not full of shit. I used the word "relatively new" to describe him bc he's the newest guy on the block. He's here just under a year, I've lived here for a decade so he's still "New" to me. As for why he would talk about it, I dunno. It's only 3 or 4 of us on the block and its only the last couple of weeks that this has come to light. I don't know why he told me, this sort of thing seems to happen to me a lot- people I've just met or don't know well regularly show a very high level of comfort in talking to me. I dunno. Makes me better at my job though, I can tell you that.
But trust me, there's no bullshitting here. People see him go to work, I see him come home. The only thing he could be bullshitting about is receiving benefits but I've never met anyone who bragged about being a welfare recipient.
OK OK....Report him. Is there a way to do it anonymously? If so, it sounds like you'd be one of the last people he'd suspect. Minding your own business has it's limits, and the limit is to the point where you sacrifice your integrity as a good citizen. To me if you see a crime that rips off taxpayers to this level, and you say nothing, that integrity is compromised.
As one who has relative with a traumatic brain injury and all the shit you have to go through to get legitimate services, I would not hesitate to mention it to the proper fraud authorities
If he is indeed doing this, he makes it more difficult for those who legitimately are in need
Its karma against the other guy, holy shit!
But a mind like that fails to make that crucial connection of his selfishness and its ultimate impact on the taxpayers. That's how people rationalize doing reprehensible shit...by zoning out on the real life, cause-and-effect connections and consequences.
A very dear friend of mine is genuinely disabled. She has severe ADHD, Bi-polar disorder, and severe depression. She is dirt-poor. Has a severely disabled son whom she cares for 24-7. He gets SSI. Her husband ditched them and pays no child support.
She can't even afford flea treatment for her pets, all of which are rescues...some that other dirtbags dumped on her. Last month, some kind people paid her electric bill and to have her elderly dog put to sleep.
I sent her 32 pounds of cheap-ass Purina Cat Chow, since she fostered a little kitty for my rescue network. She WANTED to do *something* to be able to give to others and to help, so she wouldn't feel so worthless, helpless and dependent. All she could give was love and some space in her home, so a little calico short hair shoulder cat could escape euthanasia and find a forever home. That kitty was adopted to a family who is over-the-moon in love with her.
My friend was turned down for disability. And she effing NEEDS IT. But her disability is invisible and does interfere with her ability to focus and follow-through on various tasks. I feel awful for her.
The dirtbag in the OP is the reason why my friend is despairing over whether she can cover her electric bill. She has no cable or internet connection. No car (lost that), none of the stereotypical extravagances. And worrying about her ability to cover the essentials further aggravates her mental illness.
Disability is extremely difficult to get these days. I say blow this fucker in. He's no doubt bragged to multiple people, so he won't know who it was who blew him in. He should learn a painful lesson...one that my friend, who doesn't deserve it, is learning for him.
FUCK THAT GUY!
Yeah that is the guy that pisses me off the most. Owning my own business in an industry where that is common with regards to the lowballers and crappy companies, makes that a sticky point for me. I continuously have to deal with co's that have a huge illegal advantage due to using illegal overseas help, and not paying legally. We have even tried to get ICE involved and they won't do shit. Meanwhile millions of dollars are going unreported and out of this country
But a mind like that fails to make that crucial connection of his selfishness and its ultimate impact on the taxpayers. That's how people rationalize doing reprehensible shit...by zoning out on the real life, cause-and-effect connections and consequences.
A very dear friend of mine is genuinely disabled. She has severe ADHD, Bi-polar disorder, and severe depression. She is dirt-poor. Has a severely disabled son whom she cares for 24-7. He gets SSI. Her husband ditched them and pays no child support.
She can't even afford flea treatment for her pets, all of which are rescues...some that other dirtbags dumped on her. Last month, some kind people paid her electric bill and to have her elderly dog put to sleep.
I sent her 32 pounds of cheap-ass Purina Cat Chow, since she fostered a little kitty for my rescue network. She WANTED to do *something* to be able to give to others and to help, so she wouldn't feel so worthless, helpless and dependent. All she could give was love and some space in her home, so a little calico short hair shoulder cat could escape euthanasia and find a forever home. That kitty was adopted to a family who is over-the-moon in love with her.
My friend was turned down for disability. And she effing NEEDS IT. But her disability is invisible and does interfere with her ability to focus and follow-through on various tasks. I feel awful for her.
The dirtbag in the OP is the reason why my friend is despairing over whether she can cover her electric bill. She has no cable or internet connection. No car (lost that), none of the stereotypical extravagances. And worrying about her ability to cover the essentials further aggravates her mental illness.
Disability is extremely difficult to get these days. I say blow this fucker in. He's no doubt bragged to multiple people, so he won't know who it was who blew him in. He should learn a painful lesson...one that my friend, who doesn't deserve it, is learning for him.
FUCK THAT GUY!
Wow schnitzie, thanks for sharing that, sorry to hear about your friend. I've seen it too and its maddening to see someone who needs the system be continually turned away by it while so many are able to take advantage of it.
But this is what I was talking about in my OP: not only do his actions stigmatize the concept of receiving benefits in the first place, but it's taking scarce resources from those who truly do need them.
That step makes it less about you minding your own business and more about protecting the interests of others.
I've always felt that once something is out in the open that it is fair game.
Exactly this... Minding your own business means not snooping into his personal life. He basically told you of the unlawful act he is committing. I understand though as it is hard to basically put someone away and not feel guilty about it.
Still though there really is only one answer. You need to report him in good faith. If you report him in good faith than it doesn't matter if he is lying about it. Stupid thing to lie about and he deserves what he gets.
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This guy, if it's true, is breaking the law and scamming money off of taxpayers. This is not a small problem. There are lawyers and judges on the take who facilitate these cases. There was a huge investigation in Kentucky or somewhere and it was one judge and one law firm responsible for putting many people on disability for millions. This guy could be the tip of an iceberg.
Its karma against the other guy, holy shit!
Sorry, I misread your post.
I was recruiting for a controller and Finance Manager. Multiple candidates reported irregularities that they witnessed first hand. It is what motivated them to leave to their jobs and seek employments with much smaller companies, where they could actually do something to avoid engaging in such wholesale fraud and theft from US coffers.
The health care industry was the same thing. The most successful businesses found ways to "upcode" care...to charge more for care actually given or to provide more expensive care wherever it could be justified, even if a less expensive treatment would be just as effective, if not moreso.
There are huge incentives for fraud and borderline fraud. It was all I needed to conclude that for-profit healthcare is a voracious, hydra-headed monster, with all the wrong motivations driving it.
Those who get rich off the public trough in these industries are regarded as "geniuses," when really, they're just more expensive versions of the scam artist in the OP.
Granted that's in an apartment building and not a neighborhood, but I imagine my desire if I ever did move into a house would be to maintain superficial friendships with neighbors. Just don't tell me anything about you, and we'll get along great.