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Mark Bavaro and today's TE's

herveybay : 1/27/2015 3:29 am
I was watching the 1990 NFC Championship game and was thinking what would you would prefer, a Mark Bavaro or a Jimmy Graham type of TE on the Giants in today's NFL?

For those who witnessed Mark Bavaro in the early years what were your first thoughts, did you think why did the Giants draft Mark Bavaro?
Not  
Toth029 : 1/27/2015 5:03 am : link
All the top flight TE's are such finesse players like Graham is.

Gronkowski, Davis, Witten, and Miller are all really great players and can handle blocking DE's and OLB's on a consistent basis.

I definitely would prefer someone like Martellus Bennett (who also had a great season), but they don't grow on trees and it takes a bit of luck sometimes nab someone so gifted. Now more than ever, TE's are getting 700+ yards a year on average it seems.
I think it depends on the type of offense you run  
USAF NYG Fan : 1/27/2015 6:08 am : link
I prefer the Mark Bavaro type myself but that might be because of growing up watching Mark Bavaro play. I will never forget him dragging 49ers for extra yards (link). He was great at blocking (probably because he practiced against Taylor). As for his receiving, I believe Parcells once told Simms, "when he's covered, he's open". Someone correct me if I'm wrong on that quote. Bavaro took some beatings though. He once finishing a game with his jaw wired shut. I'm sure this is why he had a shorter career than other great TE's.

With Graham you get a faster finesse player that should last a lot longer in the league. Much more like a WR INHO. The game is different now and many offenses now prefer this type of TE.

Yes I am biased.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pssDR0ERnw - ( New Window )
Bavaro of 90  
RetroJint : 1/27/2015 6:50 am : link
was a shell of the Bavaro of 86, who at that time was at his peak, probably the greatest composite TE of all time. My Dad used to tell me that the young Bavaro played like the young Mike Ditka, whose career Mark sort of mirrored. Ditka had many so-so years playing in the aftermath of debilitating injuries.

As far as the receive-solely or receive-mainly tight-ends, the game is different today because teams are able to run from spread formations. Thus the TE skill set changes. Graham does not look like a finesse player when DBs are trying to tackle him. However, with regard to 89, I will mention what Madden said about him in '86. He said Bavaro blocked Dexter Manley the entire game against the Redskins in Washington that year. John added that he had never seen a TE even asked to block a DE, let alone dominate him. To me, that means just as much as the catch-and-run against the Niners.
Bavaro would be still a stud today.  
Big Blue '56 : 1/27/2015 7:25 am : link
To have him as a blocker extraordinaire? Seriously?
Bavaro  
blapre74 : 1/27/2015 7:55 am : link
went to survival camps. Those were the days. Simms was a tough SOB too. He lifted with the linemen.
Bavaro would a Gronko type today  
Giants2012 : 1/27/2015 7:59 am : link
.
I'd prefer a Jimmy Graham type  
fbdad : 1/27/2015 8:50 am : link
A Mark Bavaro type must be 50 years old by now
If a prime time Bavaro was playing now he would be the  
Victor in CT : 1/27/2015 9:57 am : link
best TE in football.
Most of today's star TE's would be out  
LauderdaleMatty : 1/27/2015 10:12 am : link
Half of every season if they took the hits Bavaro had to. The NFL pretends it's about head injuries but they want the high scoring games for excitement an to keep the fantasy players tuned in.

Witten Graham and Gronk are HOF WRs but compared to Bavaro and guys like Ditka they are pussies. They would be lit up and laying on the field if they tried running the routes they do today.
RE: Most of today's star TE's would be out  
Big Blue '56 : 1/27/2015 10:23 am : link
In comment 12111022 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
Half of every season if they took the hits Bavaro had to. The NFL pretends it's about head injuries but they want the high scoring games for excitement an to keep the fantasy players tuned in.

Witten Graham and Gronk are HOF WRs but compared to Bavaro and guys like Ditka they are pussies. They would be lit up and laying on the field if they tried running the routes they do today.


Babaro, Ditka and Mackey were the best two way TEs I ever saw
Bavaro  
Big Blue '56 : 1/27/2015 10:23 am : link
.
Lauderdale  
Bill2 : 1/27/2015 10:35 am : link
How right you are

and BB56...yes...John Mackey belongs on that list. Cant think of anyone else I saw play true 2 way tight end as well as Ditka, Mackey and Bavaro back when wars were wars
Witten comes the closest to Bavaro...  
GA5 : 1/27/2015 10:37 am : link
To me Bavaro in his prime years was the best two way tight end I have seen. He could block defensive ends one on one. He had good speed, could get down the field (seam pass was their favorite route,) knew how to get open, had great hands, hard to bring down. And tough as nails. If his career prime was longer I'm pretty sure he would be in the Hall. I felt, overall, he was better than Mackey and Ditka. He fit the Giants' offense of the 80's perfectly, but he would be a beast in any offense. Witten has always been a thorn in our side. One of the few Cowboy players over the years that I respect. He'll probably get into the Hall. But I still think Bavaro was better.
Mackey and Ditka were before my time.  
Klaatu : 1/27/2015 10:45 am : link
So for me, Mark Bavaro is the quintessential Tight End, and the very definition of toughness.

(Note to USAF, Bavaro credits Carl Banks, not LT, for making him the blocker he became. They went head-to-head every day in practice)
How many of these TEs today would play a game with a broken jaw?  
T in NJ : 1/27/2015 11:09 am : link
Let alone for six weeks.
If he played in todays pass friendly game he would  
steve in ky : 1/27/2015 11:20 am : link
easily dominate at the position.
I would take a healthy Bavaro  
Matt M. : 1/27/2015 11:21 am : link
over any TE of any era every time. He was a beast blocking, ran great routes, had deceptive speed, owned the seam, and had great hands. He would be the best TE ever in the game, in my opinion, had he never wrecked his knee.
Witten is a great TE  
RinR : 1/27/2015 11:43 am : link
but he does not break tackles or is as difficult to bring down as Bavaro was. Yet Witten's longevity will get him into the HOF.
Number  
Sec 103 : 1/27/2015 12:03 pm : link
89...
A beast!
What Matty said.  
Red Dog : 1/27/2015 1:25 pm : link
.
Bavaro would have waltzed into the HOF if not for the injuries  
Greg from LI : 1/27/2015 1:30 pm : link
He was like a third OT on the line and a great receiver to boot.
RE: Lauderdale  
LauderdaleMatty : 1/27/2015 2:16 pm : link
In comment 12111046 Bill2 said:
Quote:
How right you are

and BB56...yes...John Mackey belongs on that list. Cant think of anyone else I saw play true 2 way tight end as well as Ditka, Mackey and Bavaro back when wars were wars


Hey Bill Hope all is well. Better record this date. I don't know I might be correct again lol.

Hate to sound like an old fart but the guys today are more WRs than anything else. Its not meant to be a knock but guys like you mentioned were playing a different game and position.
I was too young for Bavaro  
Osix_ : 1/27/2015 2:22 pm : link
but I've watched enough old school games and highlights to know one thing... Giants fans are absolutely not homers for thinking Bavaro was a HOF type of player at his best. Dude was the real deal.

Ditka --- Bavaro --- Gronk

I think those are the 3 most dominant TEs in NFL history at their best. They were just more "man" than the other players on the field. Just ragdolling DBs and doing a great job of blocking.

Graham is a great player for what he is. But I don't think he's close to Gronk. And if a healthy peak Bavaro played with the Pats and Brady, I think he could make a similar impact to Gronk.

I also respect the hell out of Witten. Hall of Famer. But he's not and never was anywhere near Gronk's level when both are healthy.
I'd take Bavaro.  
nicky43 : 1/28/2015 12:25 pm : link
I grew up watching him play and he could take a licking and keep on going. I can remember seeing him get up from some seriously nasty hit that I was certain had killed him. He was the complete TE. He could run, block, and catch.
RE: Bavaro of 90  
Disgruntled NYGfan : 1/29/2015 12:43 am : link
In comment 12110850 RetroJint said:
Quote:
was a shell of the Bavaro of 86, who at that time was at his peak, probably the greatest composite TE of all time. My Dad used to tell me that the young Bavaro played like the young Mike Ditka, whose career Mark sort of mirrored. Ditka had many so-so years playing in the aftermath of debilitating injuries.

As far as the receive-solely or receive-mainly tight-ends, the game is different today because teams are able to run from spread formations. Thus the TE skill set changes. Graham does not look like a finesse player when DBs are trying to tackle him. However, with regard to 89, I will mention what Madden said about him in '86. He said Bavaro blocked Dexter Manley the entire game against the Redskins in Washington that year. John added that he had never seen a TE even asked to block a DE, let alone dominate him. To me, that means just as much as the catch-and-run against the Niners.


Not just Dexter Manley, but he used to block Reggie White, also. And come out ahead in those matchups. Bavaro is such an underrated stud.
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