"I’m going to tell you this,’’ said Irvin, who works as an analyst for the NFL Network. "New York should know better. Out of all the people in the world, New York should know better. You can’t take the lion out of the man. They did it to Jeremy Shockey and he wasn’t the same player. Guys like this are a lot like me. They create these fights for themselves and then they come out on Sunday and they fight like a dog. Don’t you stop them from creating those fights.
"Don’t calm them down and you’ll get something special. Calm them down and you’ll get the start of something special like we got the start of Jeremy Shockey and then it fell off toward the end. Leave ODB alone.’’ |
Now I don't really agree with Irvin here (especially about Shockey) but I do believe there is SOME truth to this. Players like OBJ feed off their emotion and when you reduce that emotion it could have some effect to their play on the field. I think OBJ will be a great player either way but there's something to be said for letting him be the player he's always been and not trying to tame him...too much.
the part about creating conflicts and then going to war against that conflict on Sunday is the key. u take that away,they die
I thought the only thing Coughlin said is to not get any penalties. And OBJ acknowledged he's still figuring out where that line is.
Otherwise, what did I miss where the Giants told him to tone it down?
His passion is contagious, look how much better Randle was down the stretch. I think Beckham had a lot to do with that success.
Shockey never played better than he did in 2005. He actually scored tds that year. He was more explosive in 2002 but his blocking wasn't as consistent as later on.
There's a little bit of truth in Irvin's statement but people act like coughlin fails to get the most out of his players. It virtually never ever happens. The guy is a damn good coach.
I thought the only thing Coughlin said is to not get any penalties. And OBJ acknowledged he's still figuring out where that line is.
Otherwise, what did I miss where the Giants told him to tone it down?
His passion is contagious, look how much better Randle was down the stretch. I think Beckham had a lot to do with that success.
I have to assume that OBJ spoke to Irvin during Pro Bowl (I believe he was on Team Irvin) and that's what Irvin is commenting on here.
Bradshaw stayed aggressive though, injuries are ultimately what did him in.
If he starts trash talking post game and in the media and/or costing us games with stupid penalties, then I'll start caring about it.
We as fans can't have our cake and eat it too. We can't sit here and expect him to act 100% like a boyscout and still crush it on the field like he did this past year. Some players can do that, others have their own way.
#nonissue
Whatever. The guy is a great player and I'm not looking for him to be a role model. If he wants to make a fool out of himself that's his business. Just go to practice and don't get anymore penalties.
I just hope I don't have to read on BBI that his act is different from or somehow more tolerable than the litany of guys we've all motherfucked over the years for doing the same thing.
I completely trust Coughlin not to screw up OBJ.
And I assume he's also ignoring that Shockey's 2005 season - four years into his career and his second year under Coughlin - was right on par with his rookie season.
And Gibril Wilson? When did he ever look like Troy Polamalu? He was a good safety, but never special.
Whatever. The guy is a great player and I'm not looking for him to be a role model. If he wants to make a fool out of himself that's his business. Just go to practice and don't get anymore penalties.
I just hope I don't have to read on BBI that his act is different from or somehow more tolerable than the litany of guys we've all motherfucked over the years for doing the same thing.
I don't think people care about the TD dance for the most part. People are talkign about his jarring with CB's leading to them headhunting or personal fouls.
But again, stating that he should "tone it down" and expect the same play wouldn't be fair. Until he costs us games I don't know what people expect him to do.
The comments I've seen on this thread lead me to believe those making them just don't get that aspect of this game. It's tired but true, you have to have seen it first hand and been part of a football team dynamic to really get it. If you haven't done that and you think Irvin is wrong, then plainly, you're wrong and are speaking on a topic you have no insight on.
Then Player X's performance declined.
Therefore Coughlin caused Player X's performance to decline.
I don't think Shockey would have been any better after his injuries if Coughlin had got in has face and screamed that he should go out there like a crazed dog and have some fun.
Post Hoc Fallacy - ( New Window )
He shoots & scores - same here.
The comments I've seen on this thread lead me to believe those making them just don't get that aspect of this game. It's tired but true, you have to have seen it first hand and been part of a football team dynamic to really get it. If you haven't done that and you think Irvin is wrong, then plainly, you're wrong and are speaking on a topic you have no insight on.
I agree as well. And I think injuries and Giants brass did probably tell Shockey to tone it down.
Maybe he means places.
(quote)Just when you thought Michael Irvin's drug trial had reached the outer limits of bizarre, a man was arrested yesterday for allegedly trying to hire a hit man to kill the Dallas Cowboys star receiver.
Honest.
And it was a cop.
Honest again.
On the third day of jury selection in Irvin's trial - in which 28 of 57 prospective jurors told the prosecutor they were Cowboys fans - Officer Johnnie Hernandez was arrested, one day after handing over ``several thousand dollars'' to an undercover agent posing as a hit man.
``The officer wanted the hit to occur very, very soon,'' Dallas Police Chief Ben Click told reporters at a news conference yesterday.
``It was clear that he wanted Michael Irvin killed.''
According to one law enforcement source, Hernandez was trying to protect his girlfriend from physical harm at the hands of Irvin. The girlfriend, topless dancer Rachelle Marie Smith, already had testified extensively before the grand jury that indicted Irvin on charges of cocaine and marijuana possession, stemming from a March 4 incident at an Irving motel.
``Michael Irvin was tampering with the witness, and Mr. Hernandez was going to get it stopped,'' the source told the Dallas Morning News.
The source also said Irvin warned Smith not to testify at the trial ``or you could be hurt.''
Norm Kinne, Dallas County first assistant district attorney, would not confirm Irvin was under investigation for suspicion of witness tampering.
Keep repeating to yourself: It's not a movie.[/quote]
link - ( New Window )
OBJ does not have those Shockey's personality problems. The worst you can say about OBJ is that his lack of NFL experience may... MAY have led to some errors in judgment on the field.
Second of all, it's not OBJ's emotion that the Giants need to rein in, it's the narcissism and immaturity. Mark Bavaro played with plenty of fire and emotion, but he didn't need to make it all about him. Talk is cheap, play the game. So keep your mouth shut and put your energy into beating the crap out of your opponent during the play -- not in between plays.
Third of all, let all the teenagers on BBI take not that like yourselves, Irvin refers to OBJ as ODB. That should give you pause the next time you type his initials.
No clue Marty how you can say drinking or gambling prevented him from being as good as he could have been.
Do you have something other than your opinion on that?
I'm pretty sure his violent, reckless style of play is what limited him - opting for contact instead of avoiding it.
Unless there are things related to drinking or gambling I'm not aware of (which is entirely possible).
No idea, but those two are mutually exclusive. Read Strahan's comments on Shockey or Tiki's. Two players not known for holding their tongues.
other than sitting him for 10 weeks after fumbling week 2 as a rookie (for the 2nd week in a row), then no.
What is he talking about? The Giants want to remove a player's passion to play and compete?
Makes very little sense to me.
Personally I think this is much ado about nothing. Coughlin was cautioning OBJ about getting a bad rep with refs which then puts him at risk for penalties. That's all. This idea that anyone wants him to be a bloodless robot is in Michael Irvin's head (plenty of empty space up there!).
Exactly
Bradshaw stayed aggressive though, injuries are ultimately what did him in.
Wilson was an absolute monster his rookie year.
Anyway, toning down Shockey was due to different circumstances - namely, having a very young QB that needed to become the leader of a team.
Link - ( New Window )
Sorry for the lack of clarification. I meant as a human and all around talent. I sure hope OBJ isn't into the drug scene like irvan was and I never saw Irvan make the miraculous catches we've seen OBJ make. OBJ is doing stuff the average person would think is impossible for a human to do.
All these "broadcasters" have to come up with some POV, no matter what. Otherwise, what will they say when the camera's on them?
Nothing worthwhile.
It's the kind of comment a couple of guys at a bar with make just to have conversation.
But, if you're getting flagged, you need to dial it down so that you're not getting flagged. If he gets a taunting foul in the Super Bowl that helps the Giants lose, perhaps then it will sink in.
What Jon said. There are plenty of ways to demonstrate passion and excitement without taunting your opponent. And a choreographed dance routine is by its nature planned beforehand and not spontaneous. Bottom line is not any sort of prohibition on displays of excitement, just some common sense applied. Run around, yell, jump in the air, fist pump, just lose the taunting choreography.
Fact of the matter is that Shockey was lazy, dumb, and constantly banged up. On top of that I've always felt like he was an overrated talent. How many times did he fall down when catching a ball when he should've easily caught it while running? He was overrated and lazy.
Beckham isn't overrated. His talent is undeniable and he's clearly a hard worker based on the way Coughlin adores him. I don't think toning it down a little bit will hurt Beckham in any way.
Fact of the matter is that Shockey was lazy, dumb, and constantly banged up. On top of that I've always felt like he was an overrated talent. How many times did he fall down when catching a ball when he should've easily caught it while running? He was overrated and lazy.
Beckham isn't overrated. His talent is undeniable and he's clearly a hard worker based on the way Coughlin adores him. I don't think toning it down a little bit will hurt Beckham in any way.
I agree with you Osix: Shockey was the Nuke LaLoosh of TEs. Million dollar talent, 5 cent head. He dropped too many passes, his pouting and antics were annoying and a good number of INTs were caused by his poor routes. And if he was as interested in playing as he was in throwing ice water at fans maybe he would have caught a that sure TD against SF to ice the game and we never would have cared about Trey Junkin.
But then we may not have Coughlin and Eli and those 2 Lombardi Trophies either.
Not only that, he would raise his hands when he didn't get the ball. Which is good that he wants the all but he went about it the wrong way...
Right. 3 Head Coaches, 3 Off Cos, 1 of the Head Coaches was his Off Co with his prior team, 2 of the HCs won Super Bowls, but none of them "used him the right way".
By contrast, Jimmy Johnson was a master at knowing his players individually and what buttons to push (or not push) .
All those guys had weird personalities
Eli is cool
OBJ doesn't seem to be that way.
If OBJ wants to go to war, I'm sure tom and the team will stand behind him. If he starts being like Tiki or shockey and start demanding the ball or throwing people under the bus, I'm sure hat won't fly too well.
By contrast, Jimmy Johnson was a master at knowing his players individually and what buttons to push (or not push) .
This had always been a major problem of the KG/TC offensive era. When they had the players who fit the system, the offense was awesome. When they didn't (even if due to injury) the offense struggled mightily and they had trouble adjusting (both within games and between games).
We were already able to see this past season how much better McAdoo is at building and adjusting his offense to accommodate his players talents (and not vice versa). We saw OBJ, as a rookie, move all around the offense more than I've seen any other player during the Coughlin era. He played all 3 WR positions and even lined up in the backfield quite a bit. And for a ROOKIE to have done this is even more impressive (much more to learn).
That's what makes me most excited about the McAdoo offense for the upcoming season. His ability to tailor his offense to his players instead of trying to fit a round peg into a square hole. It's will be a lot harder for defenses to figure out our O and figure out how to stop OBJ if he's constantly running plays from different positions, if he's in motion, and if we're always running different plays with him.
That's the key right there - MAKING PLAYS.
Now if it devolves into something else - needless penalties, talking bullshit in the media, showing some sort of discontent and tossing teammates and coaches under the bus - then we have a problem.
Right now - no problem at all.
And i hope i'm not the only one - but i get a little sick to my stomach watching that hypocrite Irvin hugging and giving council to Beckham. Pisses me off a little.